Post: #1

before it even had a chance...

Cuban youth glued to their smartphones in anticipation of the 60-year-old US economic/travel embargo being lifted...

and all the western values/lifestyles being highly sought and fought after.



March 11, 2005

Post: #2

yes i see the waistlines getting bigger and bigger as the end of the embargo nears.

Post: #3

Go rural. Get them young. Plenty of options left - similar to EE.

Post: #4

There is going to be some serious culture shock occurring in Cuba.

Post: #5

Anyone been since they opened? I'm considering stopping by for a few days in November.

Post: #6

I was in Cuba in March and to call it dead would be an overstatement. There is a lot of P4P action especially in the south of the Island. Then again the more south you go, the darker peoples skin is and I am very white so I did stand out so maybe that's why I got approached half a dozen times in a few minutes.
I really enjoyed Havana and had two excellent possibilities with uni students but logistics with it being my last day in the city got in the way.

Post: #7

I don't see what the big deal is about smartphones killing a pussy paradise.

Every country has smartphones these days and there are still plenty of pussy paradises.

For instance, even though East Asia (Japan, Korea and China) has integrated Western culture to a great extent, it still retains its traditional Confucian values which results in women being more feminine and traditional. Yet, smartphones are even more popular (especially in SK and Japan) per capita than in the West. Confucian culture has been around centuries and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Post: #8

I am flying to Havana tomorrow and staying for 5 days! Always have a blast!

Post: #9

(06-24-2015 08:44 PM)rcraig33hb Wrote:  I am flying to Havana tomorrow and staying for 5 days! Always have a blast!

How so? I could be there in a couple hours.

Post: #10

I think people are forgetting that Cuba hasn't been closed off to the West. They aren't N. Korea. Canadians and Europeans have been going there all along. I don't know why people are acting like they've never seen a Westerner in their lives.

Post: #11

Other islands close to the USA are visited by Americans. The DR for example people are still going to have fun. In Cuba things will change,,, something's will become cheaper while other things will increase in price.

As for dating Cuban women, will the competition increase,,, yes but will it open up spots in other spots like the DR where less American tourists go, probably.

These women have lived in a system that many cannot fathom....put it this way.... I have met and read about many Cubans who have came to Canada. Got out due to a marriage visa and almost all of them are divorced now. The one case I know where they are still together, the Canadian dude says it's ridiculous how much money he sends to her relatives..... Her aunts fridge is broken. Send money,,, her mom needs money for more food,,, send money,,,, is he a chump or loving family man,,, or in between you make the call.

I have been to Cuba several times. Knowing how Colombians are I would marry a Colombiana over a Cubana just FYI. Of course you may find the Cuban of your dreams,,, I wish you luck.... That is of course you want to get married....going off on a tangent.

Back to topic,,, some people will become wealthier, but that is going to be such a small portion that it isn't going to change many things. The prostitutes will have more business, but 99%of them are stupid and the increase in American customers won't change
a thing.
I remember the Michael Moore doc called sicko,,, medical tourism may flourish.....

There will be a bunch of thirsty men who will cause the shit to hit the fan with the woman's marketplace per se.. maybe like the Brits, Turks and Italians ruining Ukraine etc.

Maybe it's a blessing. American women will start to realize the feminist lie and become more lady like to compete for the American man. I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Post: #12

Canadians basically travel to Cuba in numbers almost as much as Americans go to the DR. The differences in tourists per year is what 3 vs. 4 million. Cuba has hardly been closed off from the West.

This post is just stupid and thats why I ignored it in the first place. Outside of that place theres something that hasn't been in the news...They are installing many Wi-Fi hotspots but you have to pay to use them and it isn't cheap whatsoever. $4.50 / hour or so. So great, it's available but you have to have an account registered with ETECSA so effectively privacy as to what you view is non-existent.

A lot of Cuban youth use facebook but they do so very sparingly. I.e. check it once a week to once a month.

I've got a number of messages from 0 rep people about what to do in Cuba as they want to check it out before the impending large changes.

News flash. Changes are slow as heck in Cuba. Starbucks ain't going in and neither is Wal-Mart.

AirBNB basically is just offering a service already offered by Cuban / Foreign competitors at a higher price. The home owner and state don't care as all that happens is effectively the following. Normally if a Cuban intermediary is used it would cost say $30 per night for the guest. $5 to the intermediary and $25 to the casa owner. AirBNB basically says screw that we are charging $40 for the same place. $15 to airbnb and $25 to the casa owner.

Heres some articles to read on the real investment opportunity in cuba...

1) http://internationalbusinesslawadvisor.c...s-in-cuba/

2) http://www.cubaheadlines.com/2015/06/03/...naire.html

3) http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-w...83966.html

4) http://www.wsj.com/articles/cuba-after-t...1434319520

5) http://ivn.us/2015/06/19/dont-expect-boo...time-soon/

Read a couple of those. Ideally the first one at minimum and you'll get a reality of the real situation there. Keep in mind the people with the most vacation time are Europeans. Many of them go on 3-6 week trips to Cuba every year. Meanwhile Joe in Iowa probably gets 2 weeks tops off a year.

Americans will just end up like Canadians. Largely secluded on beach resorts dozens of miles from the real Cuba. Right now they roam a few miles in Havana in mass. Big deal. That would be like going to Parque lleras and saying damn theres a lot of gringos here. Then you go to Bello and don't see a single one.

People are vastly vastly over reacting.

I've been getting many messages from 0 reputation guys on seeing Cuba before the impending American invasion. I don't bother responding because it's really not at all important. When Obama and Raul made the deal on December 17 to restore relations. Cubans were partying on the streets in Cuba...not because of the restoration of relations but because of the release of the Cuban Five.

No one cares about Americans going to Cuba in Cuba except people with highly profitable restaurants and service businesses related to tourism.

There are claims of 25% internet penetration. You know why that is? Because 25% have access to an email account which only views email. It's around $1 per hour. Real internet penetration is probably closer to 1-5% and of those maybe 1 in 1000 uses it for more than 3 hours a week.

Post: #13

(06-24-2015 11:33 PM)tomtud Wrote:  I remember the Michael Moore doc called sicko,,, medical tourism may flourish.....

You probably haven't been to a Cuban hospital outside of a resort. Unfortunately I've been several times. Even if they paid me the amount the operation would cost in the US or Canada (RE: Paid me to try their service) I wouldn't engage in medical tourism there.

90+% of tourists are hidden away on beaches. Of those that go into cities and are out and about 98% are only getting P4P. The Americans aren't competition for the best local girls cause by and large they lack 2 things. Linguistic abilities and time. Meanwhile Flavio the Italian is there 8 weeks a year and speaks perfect spanish.

The non-pro scene is dreadful unless you have time and / or help to locate it. Two things that 99% of Americans will not accomplish.

There is also a lack of work for foreigners, services, access to housing, access to vehicles / internet which limits the amount of Expats.

You can't just arrive, phone Bell or AT & T and have install internet / phone line next week. In fact 99% of long term visitors / expats can't get either.

You can't just go browse autotrader and find a dealership or private sale to buy a vehicle. You can browse Cuban sites and find out there are 1980 Ladas for sale for $10,000-$20,000. You can buy it but probably not in your name. I'm 99% positive you can't get it insured even if you were able to buy / drive it. A new model Peugeot the cheapeast available new car costs about $92,000 CUC. After conversion you are looking at about $100,000 American or $110,000 Canadian. This car is less than $20,000 new elsewhere.

There is no Wal-Mart or grocery stores where you can go and buy everything you need in terms of food / drinks.

You have no right to own a home outside of a few condo developments which are far more expensive per square foot than places on the local market. They also may be 99 year leases as opposed to freehold although I'm not sure about that.

In rent you pay per room as opposed to per apartment / house. This can make a 3 or 4 bedroom extremely expensive for the quality you receive.

The reason places like Medellin may be more competitive now are because there are many expats who can actually live and work there. In Cuba the expat population is essentially non-existent outside of 80 year old men on small pensions and a few people working in Embassies.

The ability to own a small business is non-existent for a Non-Permanent resident foreigner. Unfortunately to get Permanent residency you generally speaking have to be married to a Cuban and / or have a Cuban child. Even then there are many many loopholes you have to jump through.

Even if you can buy a house and you put it in someone else's name because you are completely off your rockers...you can't just go to Home Depot and buy supplies / equipment / lumber. You may have to wait around for days or weeks for some to be sold in your locale and you won't find it in stores but in the hands of individuals.

All in all, business opportunities are non-existent for all but a few big businesses. Online poker players, freelance writers / copywriters are unable to make a living while in Cuba.

The general consensus among people who aren't spectating wildly is that Cuba is many years away from any substantial change that may alter it's landscape. Most of the changes have simply been surface changes that sound great but really not much is done. Having Wi-Fi available is great but when 1 hour of use constitutes 2 days of work for the average Cuban it isn't very useful. Many changes have occurred but generally speaking the same amount of money is being spread around the economy. Instead of cutting hair under the table more people are getting licenses to do so. That really is the difference in the new reforms. Many paladares were not licensed and operated without a license, now they have a license and surprise surprise they pay more taxes.

American people who haven't been there may be of the impression that all the girls will be all over Americans because they are so poor however, due to the police situation you have basically 2 camps. The girls who are with stupid amounts of foreigners re: Hookers, serial foreigner daters (who are essentially hookers just you pay after rather) and the girls who aren't. The guys who are getting the non-pros are almost exclusively Italian and Spanish men who take longer vacations and speak the language. Keep in mind there are already as many tourists as the DR effectively and there is less money / a police force that actively prevents relations present in Cuba.

Post: #14

I should also add when I talk about average Cubans it isn't like the US where 50% makes less than 40k and 5% 200k+.

It's more like 95% make less than $100 / month
4.4% make $100-$500
0.45% make $500-$1000
0.05% make $1000+

A girlfriend of mine is aunt has been working nearly 30 years. In no single calendar month has she made more than $100 and much of the time has been spent running her own small businesses.

That would be a reasonable estimate to the break down of incomes. Some places higher in Cuba while others lower. It's not as though while 90% of the population is poor 10% is well enough off to purchase a variety of American services. We are talking about a population with drastically low incomes from top to bottom.

The top rank is income is dominated by those working in the underground economy and those with money abroad that funds businesses that attract large volumes of foreign purchasers i.e. high end restaurants. Some taxi drivers may sneak in but without consistency.

Of Cubans living in Cuba who never emigrated, I'd be shocked if there were more than 50 millionaires. About 40 of those would probably be those whose main asset is a house that was inherited and for all intensive purposes not sellable at anywhere near what they'd want for it. 10 of those people through some combination of entrepreneurship perhaps attained a million dollars in a variety of assets / investments. Gente de Zona's artists would be the obvious example of potential millionaires who live in Cuba with their recent grammy award + second big hit with Marc Anthony they may have or will atleast have the potential to become millionaires despite living in Cuba. I'm sure there are a couple painters who have became wealthy as well. A couple business man who own exceptionally successful restaurants over a long period of time like Los Nardos may have surpassed the mark as well.

Of those in the top rank of incomes the vast and I mean vast majority would be making sub $2,000 / month. An elite few make more. In the 100k + year mark you can count the number of individuals between your toes and fingers. Many of them would get there due to a rare event such as selling their primary residence. A couple of restaurant owners will consistently reach that mark. Remember the state owns almost all nightlife residences. Despite this a recent proliferation of privately owned bars has been allowed. A few of these would make over 100k but often the owner is really a Cuban abroad with a front man who is well paid but by no means making 100k / year. Keep in mind as well it's not as though there are manufacturing facilities owned by private individuals outside of the odd furniture making unit with a couple of friends working at it.

Heres an article on Vietnam...There were 170 USD millionaires in 2012...Vietnam has almost 9 times the population of Cuba.

http://english.thesaigontimes.vn/24186/M...idens.html

This is a country that has opened up for a while. The reason there may be more techincally paper millionaires in Cuba is due to vastly overpriced housing despite a supply thats miles beyond demand leading to almost nothing selling especially amongst higher end homes.

The income situation in Cuba will hardly change in the coming years. Some restaurant owners will get richer. A few more people will make decent incomes. But even a 100% increase in income person it's really negligible for purchasing power when the average person is making less than $100 / month.

Post: #15

When has Cuba ever been a Poosy Paradise?

The women there are not that great. A lot of 6-7's maybe but not many 9-10's. The really pretty girls found a way to get off the island or hook up with one of the 1% rich in Havana.

Plus the girls will always ask you for money. They are nice girls but they are so poor that they basically have no choice but to sell out. I kind of get turned off by a 7 who will hook up with an 80 year old german dude for money.

Post: #16

(06-25-2015 01:00 PM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  When has Cuba ever been a Poosy Paradise?

The women there are not that great. A lot of 6-7's maybe but not many 9-10's. The really pretty girls found a way to get off the island or hook up with one of the 1% rich in Havana.

Plus the girls will always ask you for money. They are nice girls but they are so poor that they basically have no choice but to sell out. I kind of get turned off by a 7 who will hook up with an 80 year old german dude for money.

I know a member of Rooshv is friend managed to get a girl who I could truthfully say is a 9 out a few times but never sealed the deal, even trying the alternative of providing financial aid she wasn't willing. The friend spoke perfect spanish, works in a high paying profession and was the right age early 30's with really good style. Pretty much the dream guy for most girls in Cuba. Even had one of the best houses in Cuba at his disposal with great logistics. (large villa with a pool in Miramar) She was by a wide margin the best looking girl I've seen a foreigner take out that wasn't a prostitute.

Truthfully the 9's and 10's are off limits for foreigners without a ton of time no different than anywhere else for the most part. In some countries the average girl is far higher allowing you to perhaps get a US 8 or 9 in a short trip as shes more towards the median in her country.

The average girl in Cuba is not good looking.

The 9'+'s in Havana almost all end up in Modelling or dancing. Many of them just perpetually rotate dating various people in the nightlife industry. (Typical popular band members / bar and restaurant owners as they are the ones with the most access) Many of these guys effectively never settle as they can basically hand pick girlfriends.

The best looking girls make there way to Havana at some point typically as a guy from Havana finds them in the provinces and moves them there or they go there to make real money. Some end up in Varadero and at beach resorts around the island but they live in small communities outside of those resorts where all the resort workers live. They are surrounded with well off Cubans. There are comparatively few really top notch girls in Cuba probably due to a lack of access to cosmetics / and access to doctors / dentists for specialized treatment i.e. veneers. Lots of 7's and 8's but above that it's pretty spartan.

When it's talked about as a poosy paradise historically people are referring to cheap prostitution. Which was true in the 90's. In terms of real $$ it's not particularly cheap anymore due to all the expenses incurred in it. In Havana at the night clubs figure $60-$150 + Taxi's for 1 pop. You pay night club entrance of $10. Often you are charged for a table which can cost $20. You end up out almost the same as you would if you just called a girl up on a local escort agency in your home country when all is said and done.