Post: #1

Over the last several months I’ve been noticing an interesting trend in my first dates in terms of how many women agree to come home with me and how many of those I end up banging on the first date. I’ve found that with the dates where we meet for something non alcoholic (ice cream, coffee, tea, etc.) more of the women are fine coming home with me than those where we met for a drink at a bar.

My initial suspicion is that since they haven’t had anything to drink they’re more confident that they won’t make a “bad” decision once at my place and their ASD is not as high. It’s also a much more informal meetup and not even considered a “date” by many women. One thing to keep in mind is that I run the exact same first date game whether we meet at a bar or for a cup of ice cream. A huge side benefit is that these dates are so much cheaper with me spending no more than $10 for ice cream or coffee/tea vs. $25-$40 on drinks (at least here in SoCal).

Here are my first date bang stats for 2015.

Total number: 6
Alcoholic first dates (we agreed to meet for drinks): 1
Non alcoholic first dates (coffee/tea ice cream): 3
Zero date bangs (came directly to my place): 2

Before the naysayers chime in I realize this is a small sample size and what’s considered the “correct” first date strategy is one of the most polarizing topics on this forum (appetizers anyone?? ) Still it’s something to consider adding to your game toolbox. I would be interested to hear if anyone else here is currently using this date model.

Post: #2

Honestly it's a toss up for me

I've done both and have bad and good experienced with both.

It really depends on how good your game is and a bit of comfort game also.

I've had a girl agree to come over to "charge her phone" after meeting me by this fountain, not even coffee !

I've had a girl I had coffee with that freaked out when she was half naked and walked out on me.

I've had a threesome with no booze or coffee, with the girls coming over without ever meeting me.

I'd say 50% of my coffee dates end up with maybe a makeout.

Sidenote: I don't usually kiss a girl if we're leaving a bar, I'll do that when she's laying in my bed.

My booze/bar game is pretty damn good, it also helps knowing bartenders and having logistics dialed (bars less than a mile from my house)

For some reason it's just way easier with a drink or 2 and a shot.

Problem is it's $8 for 2 coffees maybe but no bang, and I'm spending $40-50 a night and get a bang.

I hope this doesn't get turned into a team coffee vs team booze debate.

These are just my results - I also like going on sober coffee dates because it sharpens my skills and learn some valuable lessons.

Post: #3

(05-08-2015 01:06 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Honestly it's a toss up for me

I've done both and have bad and good experienced with both.

It really depends on how good your game is and a bit of comfort game also.

I've had a girl agree to come over to "charge her phone" after meeting me by this fountain, not even coffee !

I've had a girl I had coffee with that freaked out when she was half naked and walked out on me.

I've had a threesome with no booze or coffee, with the girls coming over without ever meeting me.

I'd say 50% of my coffee dates end up with maybe a makeout.

Sidenote: I don't usually kiss a girl if we're leaving a bar, I'll do that when she's laying in my bed.

My booze/bar game is pretty damn good, it also helps knowing bartenders and having logistics dialed (bars less than a mile from my house)

For some reason it's just way easier with a drink or 2 and a shot.

Problem is it's $8 for 2 coffees maybe but no bang, and I'm spending $40-50 a night and get a bang.

I hope this doesn't get turned into a team coffee vs team booze debate.

These are just my results - I also like going on sober coffee dates because it sharpens my skills and learn some valuable lessons.

One thing to add is that many of the women I date are in their mid 30's and higher so the ASD is flying ultra high. Even after most bar/drink dates there's no overcoming their "rules" against first date sex. With that being said, my results doing non alcoholic dates are skewing better than drink dates so I'm going to experiment with that for a while and report back later.

Post: #4

Ah...I focus on younger girls 18-25 typically (last 2 bangs were late 20's though).

I know you're older than me but I do see what you're saying.

Yeah I can definitely tell ASD is higher with age, well it has to be, because they've been used and abused.

It'd be rad if you dropped a data sheet on your experiences on this, it would for sure help older players, especially the ones that got divorced raped and are coming back into the game.

Post: #5

(05-08-2015 01:21 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Ah...I focus on younger girls 18-25 typically (last 2 bangs were late 20's though).

I know you're older than me but I do see what you're saying.

Yeah I can definitely tell ASD is higher with age, well it has to be, because they've been used and abused.

It'd be rad if you dropped a data sheet on your experiences on this, it would for sure help older players, especially the ones that got divorced raped and are coming back into the game.

You got it! I'm going to start going exclusively non alcoholic (at least for where we meet) for my first dates and will keep detailed notes. I have an extensive alcohol collection at my place but I'm over paying steep bar tabs and not getting shit in return. Over the last week and a half I had three first dates all with women in their mid to late 30's over drinks, and none of them even came close to putting out. I have a date tonight with another late 30's chic for a glass of wine so we'll see how that shakes out. But after that it's all no more bar meets for me. Much like how BlurredSevens only does zero date bangs nowadays.

Post: #6

(05-08-2015 01:29 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  Much like how BlurredSevens only does zero date bangs nowadays.

For me the Zero Date Bangs is more about compliance than anything else. If she's not willing to come over, then she's not really that interested in me to begin with.

I'm surprised you are able to bang girls on sober dates. That's quality game work, and you should keep it up if you enjoy that methodology. It's certainly not easy to do and it probably makes you a stronger player.

For me personally, I can't remember the last time I did a sober first meet. It's just my style. I tell better stories after a tequila drink, and the girls are more animated and fun once they have a drink as well.

I also think the sex is better when both of us have had a drink or two, but again this is all just personal preference, and everyone differs on these points. Do what you enjoy the most and the rest will follow.

2nd, 3rd, 4th meetups are sober 50% of the time. If I'm seeing the girl a 2nd time, chances are I like her and I won't mind being sober in her company. But first meet is 100% a drinking encounter. If she "doesn't drink" then I next her.

Getting sloshed and hitting it raw. Now that's a fun first date!

Post: #7

(05-08-2015 02:45 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 01:29 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  Much like how BlurredSevens only does zero date bangs nowadays.

For me the Zero Date Bangs is more about compliance than anything else. If she's not willing to come over, then she's not really that interested in me to begin with.

I'm surprised you are able to bang girls on sober dates. That's quality game work, and you should keep it up if you enjoy that methodology. It's certainly not easy to do and it probably makes you a stronger player.

For me personally, I can't remember the last time I did a sober first meet. It's just my style. I tell better stories after a tequila drink, and the girls are more animated and fun once they have a drink as well.

I also think the sex is better when both of us have had a drink or two, but again this is all just personal preference, and everyone differs on these points. Do what you enjoy the most and the rest will follow.

2nd, 3rd, 4th meetups are sober 50% of the time. If I'm seeing the girl a 2nd time, chances are I like her and I won't mind being sober in her company. But first meet is 100% a drinking encounter. If she "doesn't drink" then I next her.

Getting sloshed and hitting it raw. Now that's a fun first date!

Maybe it's just me but I can only remember a handful of women who I banged where alcohol really helped facilitate the bang. Most of the time if we end up back at my place and I make them a drink, the drink ends up only being partially consumed before we're banging. On the other hand I've had women at my place, very tipsy and still give me LMR from hell. Their resistance, pushing me away and adamant "NO's!" are the same, they're just a little more sloppy in how they deliver them to me. One time I had a woman at my place where we were both drunk and stoned and she still resisted me like a pro. Go figure...

I keep thinking that alcohol in and of itself will help me get the bang but at least in my own personal experiences the results don't reflect that. Even in my 20's pre marriage when I was a teetotaler blue pill newbie all of my bangs were from sober women. I guess it's my niche?

Post: #8

(05-08-2015 02:45 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 01:29 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  Much like how BlurredSevens only does zero date bangs nowadays.

For me the Zero Date Bangs is more about compliance than anything else. If she's not willing to come over, then she's not really that interested in me to begin with.

For me personally, I can't remember the last time I did a sober first meet. It's just my style. I tell better stories after a tequila drink, and the girls are more animated and fun once they have a drink as well.

Agreed, it's absolutely compliance.

From getting the number, having her send you a specific selfie to see what she looks like, having her meet you on your time, your hometurf, house, local bar, or coming right over.

These are all compliance tests and gauges.

Yeah I'm way better at telling stories when I've had drinks, my game is on autopilot, and I can focus on how to get her home. I feel like I get a little looser as well.

Post: #9

I don't drink much, so I've always done better on non-drink dates.
Alcohol makes me more bold, but less strategic, less mindful.

My basic credo is that if a girl is willing to meet you out in public, you're just a conversation away from fucking her.

It might not be on her mind to fuck you that night, (she's bleeding, she didn't shave her legs, she just fucked her boyfriend out of guilt before meeting you, whatever), but her subconscious is putting her with you for a reason. And that reason is baby making, without the babies.

#teamconversion fuck team screen

WIA

Post: #10

(05-08-2015 03:59 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:45 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 01:29 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  Much like how BlurredSevens only does zero date bangs nowadays.

For me the Zero Date Bangs is more about compliance than anything else. If she's not willing to come over, then she's not really that interested in me to begin with.

For me personally, I can't remember the last time I did a sober first meet. It's just my style. I tell better stories after a tequila drink, and the girls are more animated and fun once they have a drink as well.

Agreed, it's absolutely compliance.

From getting the number, having her send you a specific selfie to see what she looks like, having her meet you on your time, your hometurf, house, local bar, or coming right over.

These are all compliance tests and gauges.

Yeah I'm way better at telling stories when I've had drinks, my game is on autopilot, and I can focus on how to get her home. I feel like I get a little looser as well.

Kaotic you make an interesting point. I too run all of those compliance tests and now ask for the selfies (you gave me that one a while back thanks!). My personality is naturally on the reserved side and as much as I've made huge strides I'm still not 100% comfortable in a bar setting. Cafes and coffee shops are definitely more my style. From the discussion here I'm starting to see that the preferred date venue has more to do with what makes US feel comfortable and able to run our best game vs. what we think will get the woman ready to give up the bang. If we're at our best and the most comfortable and relaxed our results will follow suit.

Post: #11

(05-08-2015 04:19 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 03:59 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:45 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 01:29 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  Much like how BlurredSevens only does zero date bangs nowadays.

For me the Zero Date Bangs is more about compliance than anything else. If she's not willing to come over, then she's not really that interested in me to begin with.

For me personally, I can't remember the last time I did a sober first meet. It's just my style. I tell better stories after a tequila drink, and the girls are more animated and fun once they have a drink as well.

Agreed, it's absolutely compliance.

From getting the number, having her send you a specific selfie to see what she looks like, having her meet you on your time, your hometurf, house, local bar, or coming right over.

These are all compliance tests and gauges.

Yeah I'm way better at telling stories when I've had drinks, my game is on autopilot, and I can focus on how to get her home. I feel like I get a little looser as well.

Kaotic you make an interesting point. I too run all of those compliance tests and now ask for the selfies (you gave me that one a while back thanks!). My personality is naturally on the reserved side and as much as I've made huge strides I'm still not 100% comfortable in a bar setting. Cafes and coffee shops are definitely more my style. From the discussion here I'm starting to see that the preferred date venue has more to do with what makes US feel comfortable and able to run our best game vs. what we think will get the woman ready to give up the bang. If we're at our best and the most comfortable and relaxed our results will follow suit.

Embrace your niche!

WIA

Post: #12

(05-08-2015 01:29 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  ...Over the last week and a half I had three first dates all with women in their mid to late 30's over drinks, and none of them even came close to putting out. I have a date tonight with another late 30's chic for a glass of wine so we'll see how that shakes out. But after that it's all no more bar meets for me. Much like how BlurredSevens only does zero date bangs nowadays.

Oh boy, once a had a date with a woman +30, she was 36 (I was 22) and uruguayan - a 6-6.5 at most. I texted her sunday night:

- Up for some drinks
- Sure
- Meet me at X

There at the bar she was disrespectful to the bartender because he gave me a different beer by mistake, she was very proud of her carreer and being single at 36, refered to her two cats as "my children" and at last when I put my arm over her she tells me

"I'm not going to kiss you"

She may have kissed me, but at that point I was full rage internally speaking. So I yell "Bartender, the bill please!", leave my part of the money on drinks while she says

"Heyy I mean I'm not going to kiss you tonight, but next date we will see!"

Then I tell her

"You're not my type, but have fun with your cats, in some years I'm sure you'll have more of then... but still no man."

Left. I know was dickish, but this woman was just a parasite on society in a lot of ways.

Post: #13

(05-08-2015 04:15 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I don't drink much, so I've always done better on non-drink dates.
Alcohol makes me more bold, but less strategic, less mindful.

My basic credo is that if a girl is willing to meet you out in public, you're just a conversation away from fucking her.

It might not be on her mind to fuck you that night, (she's bleeding, she didn't shave her legs, she just fucked her boyfriend out of guilt before meeting you, whatever), but her subconscious is putting her with you for a reason. And that reason is baby making, without the babies.

#teamconversion fuck team screen

WIA

Just repped you WIA +1 Can't believe I haven't done so earlier, fixed that now.

Post: #14

I prefer to do coffee dates because occasionally I’m a cheap bastard. When I’m in a super cheap mode I wait for the woman to text me that she’s arrived, then I turn up after 5 – 10 mins. In that time, she’s had time to buy herself a coffee and she’s sitting there waiting for me. That way I don’t have to buy her one!

I said this is another thread, but I set a time constraint by meeting at a coffee shop near my apartment about an hour before it closes. During the conversation I make hints to her about going to my place. Sometimes she takes the bait and I get the bang. If she’s not willing to go, when the coffee shop closes, I tell her I still want to talk, and sit in her car. I then escalate from there.

I’ll say something like, “Let’s go to mine, I live very close. I hate doing this in car”. They’ll say “Yes”, and I’ll get the bang. Sometimes they’ll say something like “I’ve only just met you, I can’t go to your place yet”. Then I set the destination of the next meeting and say something like “OK, that’s cool. I get where you’re coming from. Next time come straight to mine.” They usually never say no to that. The next time we meet, it’s at my place, and the bang is on. I’m sure everybody agrees with this – if a woman is willing to come to your place, she’s almost certainly willing to bang.
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Another sober bang trick that I pulled was when I used to live in the South Bay. I would meet at a Starbucks which about the same distance from my apartment and the beach. After Starbucks closed I would ask the woman if she wanted to walk to the beach, and women love shit like that so she would usually say yes.

After walking around the beach, I would volunteer to walk her back to her car, but then tell her that there's a nicer route back to the Starbucks. (There's a green lane full of trees). Again, she says yes, but this road is very curvy...and it ends up behind my apartment building.

I then say, "I live right here, do you want to come in for a few mins?". If she says yes the bang is on. If she says no, I walk her back to her car.

Post: #15

(05-08-2015 01:29 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 01:21 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Ah...I focus on younger girls 18-25 typically (last 2 bangs were late 20's though).

I know you're older than me but I do see what you're saying.

Yeah I can definitely tell ASD is higher with age, well it has to be, because they've been used and abused.

It'd be rad if you dropped a data sheet on your experiences on this, it would for sure help older players, especially the ones that got divorced raped and are coming back into the game.

You got it! I'm going to start going exclusively non alcoholic (at least for where we meet) for my first dates and will keep detailed notes. I have an extensive alcohol collection at my place but I'm over paying steep bar tabs and not getting shit in return. Over the last week and a half I had three first dates all with women in their mid to late 30's over drinks, and none of them even came close to putting out. I have a date tonight with another late 30's chic for a glass of wine so we'll see how that shakes out. But after that it's all no more bar meets for me. Much like how BlurredSevens only does zero date bangs nowadays.

Im kind of there myself now. To me the payoff on the bar meetup doesn't match my success rate. My hamster started spinning about this topic about girl who I was seeing very casually over a few month period. Thing was our first meet up was a Starbucks during the day(cost me $3 for her drink) and then I just did a direct invite over to my place the week after and I never spent a dime on this girl in a few months time. Just her coming over once in a while. It dawned on me I was able to get all this time out of a girl with just a $3 purchase vs $25-$40 at bars. Obviously it's easier to get the bang on the bar date but it's going to cost me $25 at minimum and a night just to scout this person out.

Post: #16

(05-08-2015 06:07 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  I said this is another thread, but I set a time constraint by meeting at a coffee shop near my apartment about an hour before it closes.

Here's a question. How old are these women? I kind of like the coffee shop idea but are people in there late 20's+ going to coffee shops that late? I know coffee shop scene has everyone during the day but I've never even considered using one after 5pm.

Post: #17

(05-08-2015 07:02 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 06:07 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  I said this is another thread, but I set a time constraint by meeting at a coffee shop near my apartment about an hour before it closes.

Here's a question. How old are these women? I kind of like the coffee shop idea but are people in there late 20's+ going to coffee shops that late? I know coffee shop scene has everyone during the day but I've never even considered using one after 5pm.

It's worked on mid-20s to mid-30s for me. There's always people in coffee shops at all hours. What I mean by late is meeting at 9pm. Most coffee places close at 10pm.

Post: #18

(05-08-2015 07:07 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 07:02 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 06:07 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  I said this is another thread, but I set a time constraint by meeting at a coffee shop near my apartment about an hour before it closes.

Here's a question. How old are these women? I kind of like the coffee shop idea but are people in there late 20's+ going to coffee shops that late? I know coffee shop scene has everyone during the day but I've never even considered using one after 5pm.

It's worked on mid-20s to mid-30s for me. There's always people in coffee shops at all hours. What I mean by late is meeting at 9pm. Most coffee places close at 10pm.

Good info. Are you doing these meetups weekday nights...weekend nights? I guess I'm out of the loop on late night coffee game. I feel George in that Seinfeld episode

Post: #19

I was forced into doing non alcoholic dates the 2 years in Japan.

I didn't live in Tokyo, so had to drive a car.

About 80% of girls I banged in Japan was with no alcohol because of the zero tolerance law. They basically throw you in jail and have to pay a huge fine if caught with even a tiny trace if they catch you drinking & driving.

Owning a car in a foreign country > alcohol.

Post: #20

I'm not against coffee dates due to inhibitions of a chick not being lowered - I'm against them due to coffee breath.

There's a distinct sour/bitter oral aroma exuded by coffee drinkers (of which I'm not), that really is a boner killer for me (second only to smoker's breath). Mints/gum don't seem to eliminate it completely either.

Ice-cream/dessert, that's where it's at.

You get a sneak-preview of her dome skills, whilst getting her mouth filled with saccharine goodness that makes the first kiss that much better.

Post: #21

Alcohol definitely helps lower girls' inhibitions, but it takes its toll on your health and finances if you are running multiple dates per week.

Post: #22

Whenever I have suggested grabbing some ice cream to a date they look at me like I'm sixteen years old. The polite ones say "ok" politely but then don't eat anything or have a nibble so as not to appear rude.

How old are these chicks you're getting ice cream with? lol

Post: #23

@monster, it's all about delivery

Post: #24

In the Philippines, in not one of my notches was alcohol a factor. Not a single one!

I like non-alcoholic dates better now, because its cheaper, healthier, and allows you to stay mentally sharp.

Post: #25

(05-09-2015 03:36 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @monster, it's all about delivery

And how exactly do you deliver "let's go get ice cream" in a cool way? Seems like an oxymoron.