Post: #1

In another not-so-stunning display of American foreign policy incompetence, the program for the US and the usual lackey suspects to start training the "moderate" Syrian rebels has finally begun:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-s...cid=SMSDHP

Quote:WASHINGTON — After numerous delays, the U.S. military has started training dozens of Syrian fighters to help confront Islamic State militants inside the war-torn country, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said Thursday.

U.S. officials have vetted and cleared more than 400 Syrians to begin the six-week course. They will receive pay, basic training and light arms at sites in Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

About 90 Syrians have begun training, and a second group will "begin training in the next few weeks," Carter said.

The Los Angeles Times/Tribune Washington Bureau reported Monday that the program, which President Barack Obama announced nearly a year ago, had yet to actually train any Syrian forces to join the battle against Islamic State.

Carter acknowledged that finding, training and arming reliable fighters poses significant challenges given the ferocious multi-sided civil war in Syria.

"This is a complex program," Carter told reporters at the Pentagon. "It's going to have to evolve over time. I think it's fair to say ... that it will need to prove itself."

The White House wants the proxy force to target Islamic State militants, while many of the Syrian rebels — and the four host nations — want to focus on ousting Syrian President Bashar Assad.

"They are being trained and equipped to fight ISIL," Carter said, using an acronym for Islamic State. "That'll be their principal mission."

It's still unclear if the Pentagon will order airstrikes or provide evacuation and medical support to help any Syrian forces it sends into the field.

"We have not yet determined all the rules of engagement," Carter said, adding that the U.S. military is inclined to support the Syrians.

A multinational coalition led by the U.S. began bombing Islamic State positions in Iraq last August, and in Syria last September. They have flown nearly 4,000 missions in all.

Congress approved $500 million for the training program in October.

The Pentagon said it intends to train and equip 5,400 Syrians a year for the next three years. About 3,750 volunteers are in the screening and vetting process, officials said.

Notice how ousting Assad is wormed into the supposed objective of destroying ISIS. Not surprising when the usual suspects are involved.

And amazing when you consider very, very recent history. Most of the commenters get it.

Post: #2

Reminds me of a saying we use in Australia: You can't polish a turd.

Post: #3

History be like:
   

Post: #4

What do you mean start. They were doing this 2 years ago. Training them out of Jordan.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ap-us-traini...in-jordan/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...field.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-cia-operatives...es-1318563

Post: #5

The thread title should be renamed to "US Starts Training Group of People the US Will Call Terrorists 15 Years From Now."

Post: #6

Given the way Assad's fortunes in the USA are changing, I expect him to become the House Speaker by 2020.

Post: #7

You cannot assume this is naive anymore. After decades of the same shit over and over, you simply can't.

Post: #8

Relevant article from a few months ago:

Reason magazine Wrote:It looks like there are two ways to get countries to reduce their dependence on the American military umbrella. One way is the calculated, tough-love approach: point out that to other governments that they're capable of fighting their own fights, set a timetable for them to assume responsibility for defense matters, and stick to it.

The other approach is to act so nuts and untrustworthy that allies sense an implosion of crazy and reluctantly take on new responsibilities. This second technique seems to be working miracles in the Middle East as some sort of unified Arab self-help emerges from an anguished watching of whatever the hell it is the United States is up to.

In Syria you have the U.S. fighting both with Iran and against Iran, in the same country. So there is an incredibly convoluted dynamic underway right now where the U.S. is negotiating on one hand, and that's probably the biggest story right now that the U.S. is negotiating in Switzerland to come up with some sort of comprehensive deal with Iran which would see Iran put some brakes on its nuclear program in exchange for lifting the sanctions. So while we're negotiating in one country, we're fighting, or supporting a fight against Iran in Yemen, the fight that is now being led by Saudi Arabia. We're fighting both with and against Iran in Syria, and fighting with Iran in Iraq.

Do you get that? The United States is now too crazy to be trusted—in the Middle East! That's right. In a region long plagued by byzantine ploys, duplicity, fanaticism, ageless feuds, and seemingly irrational behavior, the United States government has emerged as the craziest guy in the room. American behavior has become so unreliable, that U.S. officials are apparently being cut out of the loop as the locals look for solutions on their own.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/03/30/so-ara...-their-own

Post: #9

(05-08-2015 10:08 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  You cannot assume this is naive anymore. After decades of the same shit over and over, you simply can't.

Exactly this. The US wants a military force to combat Assad once the Islamic State and Al Nusra Front brigade problem is sorted but these two are getting stronger.

Whether Assad can hold out against US interests and Sunni terrorism backed by Sunni states is another matter.

Post: #10

(05-08-2015 09:57 AM)IvanDrago Wrote:  The thread title should be renamed to "US Starts Training Group of People the US Will Call Terrorists 15 Years From Now."

15 is being generous, it will probably be more like 3 to 5 years.

Post: #11

I'm getting a case of deja vu

Post: #12

(05-08-2015 10:08 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  You cannot assume this is naive anymore. After decades of the same shit over and over, you simply can't.

Absolutely correct!!!!!

All terrorism in the middle east is sponsored and trained by the U.S and it's vassals. They do this on behalf of the ____, who want the region destroyed. The truth can not be told to the masses because the side effect of this mad policy is the destruction of the west itself. That's why the propaganda has reached cartoonish levels.

When all is said and done; It is as simple as that.

I sometimes am consumed with envy of the feeble minded. Why can't I just enjoy the steak and wine the matrix so generously programmed for me? Alas my 'intelligent' mind keeps reminding me, it's just code to distract until I run out of energy whereby I will be ejected into oblivion.

Post: #13

(05-08-2015 11:17 AM)FlyBoy Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 10:08 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  You cannot assume this is naive anymore. After decades of the same shit over and over, you simply can't.

Absolutely correct!!!!!

All terrorism in the middle east is sponsored and trained by the U.S and it's vassals. They do this on behalf of the ____, who want the region destroyed. The truth can not be told to the masses because the side effect of this mad policy is the destruction of the west itself. That's why the propaganda has reached cartoonish levels.

When all is said and done; It is as simple as that.

I sometimes am consumed with envy of the feeble minded. Why can't I just enjoy the steak and wine the matrix so generously programmed for me? Alas my 'intelligent' mind keeps reminding me, it's just code to distract until I run out of energy whereby I will be ejected into oblivion.

Post: #14

Can't wait for the blowback on this one.

Completely idiotic strategy. You just don't know if they'll be true rebels wanting freedom from Assad or if they'll hanging with ISIS the day after graduating from US Training.

I have to agree, this shit is completely with intention.

Post: #15

Well we're good friends with the Israelis and the Saudis at the same time so it's always going to be a bit wacky no matter what. The US regularly and continually sells it's soul for oil lobby (or the Israel lobby or the Saudi lobby or geopolitics to thwart Russia or the Qatar lobby or whatever other lobby that pays the bills at the time). You can take your pick on any given day. None of it makes any sense anymore and the average American has no f*cking clue anyway.

Meanwhile, re the blowback, apparently the special forces are generally ok with training all these "rebels" (this is from the military's version of The Onion):

Special Forces Soldier Excited To Train Men Who Will Try To Kill Him In Five Years

Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/05/specia...z3ZZ6rXTJS

Post: #16

Post: #17

Quote:You cannot assume this is naive anymore. After decades of the same shit over and over, you simply can't.

This. The government has vast intelligence networks, billions of classified documents, reports from people on the ground, operatives in the field, secret trade and military agreements kept from the public eye, etc. All things considered, they're in a better position to make informed decisions than we are regarding long-term strategic interests.

While that shouldn't be a blank check for the government to do whatever they wish, it's stupid to yell at a car's driver for making the wrong turn when you're locked in a dark trunk and can't even read the map.

Post: #18

(05-08-2015 11:36 AM)Akula Wrote:  Well we're good friends with the Israelis and the Saudis

That might be how some people over here(the West) see it.

The reality is very different. The Western governments are useful lackeys to the needs of Israel and Saudi Arabia.

They are not our friends. they will knife us in the back at the first chance.

Post: #19

(05-08-2015 10:37 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 10:08 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  You cannot assume this is naive anymore. After decades of the same shit over and over, you simply can't.

Exactly this. The US wants a military force to combat Assad once the Islamic State and Al Nusra Front brigade problem is sorted but these two are getting stronger.

Whether Assad can hold out against US interests and Sunni terrorism backed by Sunni states is another matter.

I'm sure when you scratch the surface, it's
all about us fighting Israel's enemies on their behalf.

Post: #20

Do you want another ISIS? Because that's how you get another ISIS.

Post: #21

Meet the new rebels, same as the old rebels. Arming another new militia in the region, what could go wrong with that?!

Post: #22

Those who understand the history of the region since the 1970s are not surprised.

Syria has been targeted for destruction by the US and Israel for a long time. The reasons are clear:

1. Syria is an independent country that refuses to open up its economy to economic exploitation by international banking and investment organizations.

2. Syria refuses to cut ties to Iran, which in Western/Zionist eyes is a crime.

3. Syria refuses to recognize Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, and refuses to do what Sadat in Egypt did, which was turn his country into a US client state in return for "peace."

4. Syria stands for the ideals of Arab nationalism and anti-Zionism, which are crimes in the eyes of the imperialist/Zionist camp.

Western intelligence and Israel waged a long covert war against Asad the Elder in the early 1980s, using the same types of Islamist fanatics that we see now, only in those days they called themselves the Muslim Brotherhood.

The West failed then, but were able to destabilize Syrian society and cause a lot of bloodshed.

So it's not surprising that the US and Israel are playing the same game now. The pattern is so obvious that it can't be denied: independent countries (like Iraq, Syria, Iran, etc.) who don't accept being bullied by the US suddenly become "rogue" regimes who must be destroyed at all costs.

The US, Israel, Turkey, and the Gulf States took advantage of the "Arab spring" revolts to funnel huge amounts of money, volunteers, and weapons to foment armed insurrection in Syria.

The blood of Syria is on their hands. Asad's only mistake was in using insufficient ruthlessness in crushing it before it took off.

Turkey wants more power and influence, and wants economic rights in Syria. Saudia Arabia is afraid of the Iran-Syria axis. Israel wants a government in Damascus that is weak and dependent on it. America does whatever Israel and Saudi Arabia tells it to do.

So there are many actors with their own motivations to trying to destroy Syria.

I hope Russia's presence will signal the start of a new phase of things. America's game is to train and arm rebels to keep the blood flowing in Syria. Now Russia has an answer to that.

Turkey, choke on your rage! You were lied to by your masters in Washington. They told you it would be easy to overthrow the government in Damascus. You fool.

You Gulf states, you have been exposed for what you are. All you have is your money and your mouths.

Post: #23

What is this..? round 4 or 5 of the U.S. "Arm Them Now, Fight Them Later" campaign in the middle east?

It's always interesting talking with my brother-in-law (49) who was born in Sidon, Lebanon, and hearing the real truth about these situations. He escaped from Lebanon at 16 during the war and came here.

He has deep family and international business roots in the middle east, and visits UAE, Lebanon, Egypt, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, & Jordan apx. 3-5 times yearly.

What you see on the news, and the reality of how all these extremist groups and situation occur from inception, are never made clear enough for the world to understand. However, often, just 1-2 much, much smaller events trigger assembly of people, a power vacuum is created, and the wrong asshole steps in and misleads all the followers into performing atrocities even WORSE that what the initial even that started it all in the first place was.

Cut the head off the fuckin snake should always be the strategy when dealing with middle eastern problems. It really doesn't matter what country wields the sword either, just that it gets done quick and early.. but that never, ever seems to happen. To much red tape.

Post: #24

In addition to all that, the West even turns on guys who seek better relations like Qaddafi in Libya. He was an enemy of ours for a long time, but then he gave up WMDs and started making serious concessions to smooth over our past problems with him. A few years later we take him out anyway.

Syria, Iran, and other "rogue states" ruled by authoritarian regimes have no incentives to make good with the US because our foreign policy is pretty much run by idiots, turncoats and hardcore zionists.

Post: #25

We've been doing this atleast since the days of Teddy Roosevelt. I know that people love him on the forum, but this is one of the main reasons I take the Teddy worship with a grain of salt.