Post: #51

(04-22-2015 04:32 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I guess I wasn't clear in my OP.

I would jump on this opportunity no question asked, if it doesnt have a "this offer will expire soon! Grab your copy of xyz TODAY"

I would love to start a business, even if it is in Vietnam, but my parents are telling me to come back NOW aka this September, and if I leave now it will be very difficult to come back to Europe later unless I get filthy rich or get a job in Europe, which is unlikely fi you are applying from a 3rd world. I havent an EU citizenship yet. Plus my life here just started to blossom. So if I leave I’m closing my escape hatch, and if things go bad in VN (unlikely) the last thing I want on earth is getting stuck in that hellhole. And my parents dont trust anyone else other than me to entrust this business to.

I’ve never had to make such a difficult decision in life. If I can postpone the offer for 2 years I would post a thread « starting hotel business in VN. Come visit RVF ! »

How big of a hotel are we talking about?

I dont understand why you couldn't employ someone to do the daily work there and you make all the critical, comprehensive and important decisions which wouldn't force you to live there for the time being. If you only give limited power to the employed manager I can't see how he would be able to do much damage even if he isn't fully trusted by your parents. Or am I missing something?

Post: #52

After reading more posts on this thread...

Damn this is a tough call. The time constraint (false or otherwise) sets off alarms, but that same time constraint could be the difference between making "fuck you" money and not making money at all. While the EU seems to be on borrowed time, citizenship is valuable. By going back to Vietnam you would be forfeiting that opportunity.

^ The above is real, but it is also only surface. The root issue is as follows:

Your parents seem like the hard-driving, difficult to play for team manager whose teams win lots of trophies (Bill Parcells in the US / and I think Alex Ferguson for soccer). A nightmare to play for, but you're winning all the time and making great money...

I'm not Asian, but I was raised by these type of parents. They're not bad people (far from it) and they love you. At the same time, if you have any sort of financial relationship with them post-childhood you're going to be driven harder than all of their other employees combined. This mentality is why they are successful and can set you up with a hotel to run. They micromanage because they do not delegate - to delegate is to lower their standards. Their companies don't have a ton of people but make big profit margins. The tell here is that they will "loan you the money" to get started. Any parents who can buy you a hotel building to run and then turn around and loan you startup capital are legit on levels that most people can't comprehend.

There's a real trap in having successful parents who will never let you starve. It can lead to complacency because you always have a safety net (even if that safety net brings more stress and bullshit than outsiders realize).

With parents like yours (and mine), if you're working with them you will not be poor. Having money won't be a thing so much as what do you do with that money. They'll have WallStPlayboys-level ideas on that, too.
________________________________________________________________

There is no wrong answer here. You know what you're in for if you go back home: great money and more stress than most people can handle. If you handle the stress like a pro you will succeed. I know I'm just a dude on the internet, but I've never been more sure of anything in my life.

If you decide that an EU citizenship is more valuable than the opportunity they're offering, take the lessons your parents taught you and make grown man moves on the Continent. Make damn sure that you'll go as hard in Europe as you'll have to go if you return to Vietnam.

OK, this last bit sounds like "Drunk Uncle"-advice. I'm not saying it's applicable to you, but just in case:

You're 24, but you'll be in your 30's before you know it. The well-off son who goes off on his own is exciting now, but time waits for nobody. By the time you're in your 30's you need to have something to show for it... not for them but for yourself. Nothing (apart from kids getting cancer) is worse than a son-of-privilege waster in his forties (even in Paris).

^ From one lone wolf with successful parents to another, I wish you the best of luck with whatever choice you make. Once you make that choice, go all out!

Post: #53

I'm glad I made this thread. You guys raised a lot of issues that I have never considered and the pool of wisdom and motivational thinking here is fuck awesome.

@Baldwin: wow, you have a very nice cap of the situation. My parents actually are a lot like what you describe.

I've made my final decision

I talked to my sister today for her opinion. My sister is the most successful member of the family so far, and also one I love and respects the most (heh dont tell my mom that) At 35 she has more net worth than my parents combined.

TLDR: unless I can stand working for an over-dramatic drama queen, don't do it. It's working FOR my mom, not WITH her.

I forgot one important thing (thanks Baldwin for bringing this up), this is NOT a no-string-attached offer. My mom phrases it as if she is giving ME the hotel and the money, but I should have known better. In practice I would only be managing her hotel, and I'll never be "boss". I always thought the "buying me a hotel and pay for all operational costs" too good to be true. I'm working FOR her, not her giving me money to start up. And no, you can't have some "terms and conditions" with my mom.

My sister and mom have been in the real estate and stock business for years and their relationship has gone down the hell pit because of "doing business with family". My mom is extremely controlling of her money. If things go well, she considers it as her doing you a favor. If not, then all hell broke loose because she blames you for the troubles. For my mom, family business = her taking the reins. It's never a partnership.

Ok, let's say I'm not my sister and I can "do better". Heh, she is the one with the business sense. I remember from time to time when things are not going well in Paris mom would tell me "I'm paying for your education so you do everything exactly as I say!" "You are still dependent on me, behave" I also remember wanting to stomp out the door... Remember, I never asked her to support me. She willingly offer her aid, but it didn't come without a price.

This time it's no difference. What makes you think she will not tell me something along the line of "You would be nothing if I didn't give you this hotel and blaba" IF the hotel business go well. If it doesn't, hell has no fury like my mom.

I'm talking as if my mom is a bad person. SHE IS NOT. But controlling has always been her nature. I remember the best relationship we had, was when I started being away and only talked to her over Skype. If we stay together more than a month things go south.

TLDR: There's little win in accepting the offer. All the pros you guys mention (having skills, having money) are for nothing if I'm defacto working for my mom, and as long as I'm still in that business I'm stuck. No point in having lots of $$ if you can't feel like you own it. Doing business with her exponentially increases conflict between us, which could potentially have grave consequence (my mom threatens to disown us once because we "didn't care about her")

I love my parents and for the moment keeping a certain distance with them is the best way to preserve what we have.

Business-wise, it's probably best if I let my mom do her things herself and strangle some poor manager guy rather than me. She's a successful business women. And for all the "guilt" talk purpose, I never expect to receive some inheritance from them. I keep telling them to use the money they have left to live royally for the rest of their lives.

Post: #54

Dalaran, now that you've gone into more detail about your Mother and how the relation would be, I think turning the offer down is a good move.

It would be one thing if the hotel would be yours and yours alone, but the scenario you describe above does imply you would be stalling your efforts to break away from the Mother, to leave the boy behind and become a man.

You have been doing well at this, and it seems like the hotel offer is life tempting you to regress back to being a boy again. Testing to see if you are really serious about making it, as your own man.

Post: #55

This thread hits close to home: I faced a similar decision last year although my parents are less controlling and there was less at stake in terms of citizenship and whatnot. I decided to stay under their "wing" so to speak with the aims of taking over the family business 4-5 years down the road. BTW, I'm 26 so the idea of waiting even longer till I'm making solid bank was hard to swallow at first. I question my decision at times, but there is no point in doing this because the grass is always greener on the other side.

Lots of wisdom and great advice in this thread. At the end of the day, if you put yourself all-in to what you choose, you will have no regrets.

Post: #56

Turning it down sounds like the best choice with what you said. Your mom wants you to be an employee and or dedicated son to turn to when things get rough. It's really about parental control then.

That means you'll be shackled to their new business venture indefinitely until they pass away. Walking away really is the best decision there.

On the other hand let's say you are given an opportunity to completely take over the family business down the road. That's not a bad deal to get a turnkey business. I started out with something like that but when I did it I made sure that all legal business matters were under my control and the capital to keep it going was completely provided on my side.

Post: #57

Dont do it.

If you hate managing people and hate the culture you will
hate every aspect of your life there.

Its just not worth it.

Go do something you love. Mark your own mark on the
world.

Follow the little voice inside of you. It knows best.

Good luck.











If I accept I have to go back next year, and I feel like my life in Paris just started to blossom.
[/quote]

Post: #58

We all do things we don't want too.

Your parents are willing to front for an asset for you. That's huge. How long would it take for you to be able to buy your own hotel? For me, it might take 20 years or might not be possible at all.

Build your asset, manage your hotel and once you find the right people, let them manage it! You could have a passive income of $1 million per year! and regardless, Vietnam is the most industrious young economy in SE Asia and provided there is no Asian Economic Collapse, the Vietnamese GDP is going to seriously start growing and thus your property value, the tariffs of the hotel etc.

Sounds like your parents are doing this for you. Maybe it doesn't need to be hotels. You have seed money, in a frontier economy - why not start ecommerce in Vietnam? In 10 years it will be huge.

Post: #59

(04-28-2015 07:31 AM)CodyB Wrote:  We all do things we don't want too.

Your parents are willing to front for an asset for you. That's huge. How long would it take for you to be able to buy your own hotel? For me, it might take 20 years or might not be possible at all.

Build your asset, manage your hotel and once you find the right people, let them manage it! You could have a passive income of $1 million per year! and regardless, Vietnam is the most industrious young economy in SE Asia and provided there is no Asian Economic Collapse, the Vietnamese GDP is going to seriously start growing and thus your property value, the tariffs of the hotel etc.

Sounds like your parents are doing this for you. Maybe it doesn't need to be hotels. You have seed money, in a frontier economy - why not start ecommerce in Vietnam? In 10 years it will be huge.

Thanks. As I stated a few post earliers, Ive found out that this whole hotel thing is not a gift from my parents. Its more like me coming back to work for her on her terms, with the "promise" of one day inherit the whole heritage. So theres no gain for me economic wise there. My mom is quite the drama queen so working with her will damage the relationship. Its a lose-lose situation.

If it was actually my parents sitting me down and say "here are some money and a hotel. Do whatever you want with it. This is the last we can offer you", like I said I would be posting up signs on RVF inviting you guys over for vacation with special forum discount

Post: #60

Haha, well in that case, do things on your own terms man, sorry I should have read the whole thread.

Don't be afraid to bring your hustle to Vietnam. It is where Thailand was 10 years ago development wise, a little bit fucked up with the beuracracy but all the same Saigon is going to explode in the next 10 years and if you were looking at becoming location independant, some small online business models that are already proven in the west don't exist there yet and being a clued up local you could seriously take advantage!

Anyway good luck man!

Post: #61

When I first read this thread, I thought: don't do it. You only have one life. Be happy.

Upon consideration, though, I think I would instead offer the following:

Take the opportunity and use it to further the life YOU want.

A hotel is a big deal and your family obviously cares about you and believes in you. Otherwise this wouldn't be on the table. I understand, however, that you do not want to return to Vietnam to live -- I am the same. I am an expat who does not wish to return to his home country.

Although you only have one life, so too do your mother and father. I am not suggesting you trample your own desires, but only that you see them as a component of a larger web of desires. This is family, is civilization. It can be constraining but like anything else, it is a game to be played.

A game to be played well, and won.

Would it then not be possible to take the offer, pour yourself into the position, and learn to manage this hotel very well? A well-managed hotel is something that can be expanded (potentially to Europe), be handled at a distance once things are functioning at a high level (allowing you time to travel and to maintain a residence in Europe) or even, ultimately, be sold (allowing you a serious chunk of money with which to further your other personal and professional goals).

In the end, I don't believe life should be lived to serve others, but neither do I believe life should be lived with the sort of tunnel-vision that excludes the contributions of loved ones when they fall afoul of potentially-too-specific specific personal criteria.

I would not recommend turning down the offer of a hotel from your family. I would build the idea of having a successful Vietnam hotel into your vision of the future.

Post: #62

Is there any way you can get your mom to give you some ownership in the hotel? It's only fair, since you will be giving up significant opportunity costs if you went back to Vietnam.

I don't wanna push you towards one direction since you obviously know your situation better than any of us here, but I kind of lean towards Vietnam as well.

In France, your earning potential seems to be capped, whereas in Vietnam is potentially limitless. From what I understand, Da Nang is an area in particular that will probably be growing a lot in the next decade.

Also, Viet girls are fire. You might not like them now, but I'm assuming you lived in Vietnam before you gamed a lot and haven't had the chance to be with that many high-society Viet girls yet. I am pretty sure that you will never wanna go back to white girls once you are tapping that high quality Viet pussy. I've met a lot of guys who said they liked white girls more than Asian girls until they got with the top-notch Asians. After that point, they were forever changed. I apologize if I'm presuming too much about your situation.

Game-wise and business-wise I would personally lean towards Vietnam. It seems like you are happier in France, but sometimes you have to take 1 step back and 2 steps forward.

Anyway, just throwing some thoughts out there.

Post: #63

(04-28-2015 07:47 PM)rungoodinc Wrote:  Is there any way you can get your mom to give you some ownership in the hotel? It's only fair, since you will be giving up significant opportunity costs if you went back to Vietnam.

I don't wanna push you towards one direction since you obviously know your situation better than any of us here, but I kind of lean towards Vietnam as well.

In France, your earning potential seems to be capped, whereas in Vietnam is potentially limitless. From what I understand, Da Nang is an area in particular that will probably be growing a lot in the next decade.

Also, Viet girls are fire. You might not like them now, but I'm assuming you lived in Vietnam before you gamed a lot and haven't had the chance to be with that many high-society Viet girls yet. I am pretty sure that you will never wanna go back to white girls once you are tapping that high quality Viet pussy. I've met a lot of guys who said they liked white girls more than Asian girls until they got with the top-notch Asians. After that point, they were forever changed. I apologize if I'm presuming too much about your situation.

Game-wise and business-wise I would personally lean towards Vietnam. It seems like you are happier in France, but sometimes you have to take 1 step back and 2 steps forward.

Anyway, just throwing some thoughts out there.

This is an interesting point.

The way I experience it, the top quality Viet girls require the same amount of effort to get as the top quality white girls. So a Viet 9 would be equally hard to get as a 9 blonde.

Given that I have to spent the same amount of effort anyway for the same quality, I would always pick a white one. This is more a matter of preference than of one being better than the other.

The 6-7 Viet girls are indeed a lot more pleasant than the bitchy white 6-7s, but once you get to high quality that difference disappear. Very hot girls in Vietnam have as much, if not more, of a princess Jasmine attitude than white girls.

They might make better wives in that they will not divorce rape you. But I get your point, gaming 6-7s would be a lot more pleasant in Vietnam.

Strategic wise, this deal is off because of the bad timing. I cannot give up the chance of potentially getting an EU citizenship. Vietnam is an excellent economic climate but a fuck you bomb in terms of political/social. This does not affect foreigners so its normal you guys dont see it.

I have yet to know a rich Viet family who does not already, or not trying to, have a second citizenship. It s almost as if they pour money into establishing a second base in the West. My sister who is a very successful investment banker regrets everyday that she didnt stay in Australia long enough to get citizenship. Recently she just had to spent a fuck tons of money and effort to get a work visa to Canada with the intention of getting naturalized there.

Having an EU/US citizenship = freedom of movement and social protection. You guys talk about being location independent, thats a very Western thing. With the Viet regime, good luck with that without a 2nd citizenship. When shit goes wrong thats your escape hatch. Thats why Asian elites pour so much money into sending their kids abroad.

Post: #64

I assume it would be easier to get top-quality Viet girls because you are a high-status Viet (overseas, speak English well, higher socioeconomic bracket) which is hugely important in both Asian countries and semi-developing countries. Not that you wouldn't be high-status in France, but seems like you have even more going for you in Vietnam in terms of status.

Also TBH I don't believe in the concept of bitchiness and princess attitude. It's all relative. A super hot girl is gonna be a bitch/princess to 99% of guys but she's gonna be on better behavior when she meets a true alpha.

Overall, though, totally makes sense to stay and get your EU in case shit hits the fan in Vietnam. Who knows? Maybe your mom is just bluffing and the offer for the hotel will still be on the table two years later... Even if she says it won't be, things could change and you may have more leverage then as well.

Post: #65

Good choice.

The hotel thing just isn't a good fit for you (you don't want to manage people). I wouldn't hire you to be my hotel manager, no matter how much I liked you, because your heart wouldn't be in.

There's nothing worse than an apathetic manager.

It sounds like you have some good prospects in France.

Live cheaply, bank cash and ten years, you'll be able to invest back into Vietnam on your own terms.

There WILL be a lot of opportunities in Vietnam in ten years. The time isn't now for you.

Even if there is tons of development in Vietnam in the major urban centers (and there is thirty years of room for development in Hanoi, for example), there will be secondary cities that still haven't even started the process twenty years from now.

Do it your way.

Post: #66

(04-29-2015 07:57 PM)rungoodinc Wrote:  I assume it would be easier to get top-quality Viet girls because you are a high-status Viet (overseas, speak English well, higher socioeconomic bracket) which is hugely important in both Asian countries and semi-developing countries. Not that you wouldn't be high-status in France, but seems like you have even more going for you in Vietnam in terms of status.

Also TBH I don't believe in the concept of bitchiness and princess attitude. It's all relative. A super hot girl is gonna be a bitch/princess to 99% of guys but she's gonna be on better behavior when she meets a true alpha.

Overall, though, totally makes sense to stay and get your EU in case shit hits the fan in Vietnam. Who knows? Maybe your mom is just bluffing and the offer for the hotel will still be on the table two years later... Even if she says it won't be, things could change and you may have more leverage then as well.

I wrote very long posts above but this pretty much sums up what I think.

Read wallstreetplayboys very carefully and go for where the money is. Not everything in life is money but around 95% is.

(04-22-2015 04:36 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  TLDR: There's little win in accepting the offer. All the pros you guys mention (having skills, having money) are for nothing if I'm defacto working for my mom, and as long as I'm still in that business I'm stuck. No point in having lots of $$ if you can't feel like you own it. Doing business with her exponentially increases conflict between us, which could potentially have grave consequence (my mom threatens to disown us once because we "didn't care about her")

Heh, if I had an Apple share every time my mom threatened to disown me.

I don't think your mom would disown you, your dad might but with the mother there's a lot of hormones and shit involved and she'd have to be really messed up in the head (and anyone who can afford to buy their son a fucking hotel isn't) That offer or another similar offer would probably be on the table in 2 years or even 5 years, but I don't know how Vietnam is so make sure you don't miss the train when it's about to take off.

Plus being an EU citizen you can get loans with much lower interest than what we have in our home countries, you can then use this money to develop in Vietnam.

Cheers..

Post: #67

Man, Viet-friggin-nam.

I've lived in dozens of countries all over the world. Every place has some amazing parts, and some less amazing parts. You go, hey I could be here forever when you first land and notice the good sides, and later start thinking of leaving when the slowly grating negatives start really sucking up the fun.

Of every place I've ever lived, Vietnam is easily the one with the strongest long term downsides (for me). A big one, I've never, ever, ever in my life been ripped off, for more than a couple of bucks while living in strange places. Never, except ... Vietnam. And there actually several times. By people I considered good friends, people I knew for years, people who I really couldn't fathom to have any incentive on earth to do it. And yet, bam. Every damn time.

The locals will tell you, "trust nobody". But then you think you have a pretty good sense for people. Forget that in Vietnam. Had post this, as soon as I saw "buying a hotel in Vietnam", I'm thinking ... oh boy is somebody going to get ripped off so hard, their head will spin into the subsequent two generations.

Also, good god with the driving, cutting people off, honking, cutting in line, littering, rude-ass Chinese-ey stuff. Not annoying for a while but after six months there, anywhere else felt like a civilized paradise.

Buy a bunch of apartments in Budapest, do Airbnb or something.

Post: #68

I think he's Vietnamese though^^^

Post: #69

(11-20-2015 01:17 AM)hnsight_roo Wrote:  Man, Viet-friggin-nam.

I've lived in dozens of countries all over the world. Every place has some amazing parts, and some less amazing parts. You go, hey I could be here forever when you first land and notice the good sides, and later start thinking of leaving when the slowly grating negatives start really sucking up the fun.

Of every place I've ever lived, Vietnam is easily the one with the strongest long term downsides (for me). A big one, I've never, ever, ever in my life been ripped off, for more than a couple of bucks while living in strange places. Never, except ... Vietnam. And there actually several times. By people I considered good friends, people I knew for years, people who I really couldn't fathom to have any incentive on earth to do it. And yet, bam. Every damn time.

The locals will tell you, "trust nobody". But then you think you have a pretty good sense for people. Forget that in Vietnam. Had post this, as soon as I saw "buying a hotel in Vietnam", I'm thinking ... oh boy is somebody going to get ripped off so hard, their head will spin into the subsequent two generations.

Also, good god with the driving, cutting people off, honking, cutting in line, littering, rude-ass Chinese-ey stuff. Not annoying for a while but after six months there, anywhere else felt like a civilized paradise.

Buy a bunch of apartments in Budapest, do Airbnb or something.

After living in Vietnam for over a year now and just about to leave for a while, i reluctantly agree.

The negatives begin to outweigh the positives here after a while-there's little to no trust between people and there's an attitude of f*cking someone over before they do it to you.

Many Vietnamese are incredibly shortsighted in regards to money and would rather get $10 from you now anyway they could than give you good service and get repeat custom from you.

Corruption there is huge too at every level. I came with plans to start a business but wouldn't risk it now after being here for a year as a foreigner. One of the first things i was told by a good Vietnamese friend when i arrived was 'don't believe anything they tell you.' I laughed it off at first but it's proven to be sage advice over time here.

Vietnam. Beautiful girls, sunshine, but keep your wits about you...

Post: #70

(04-29-2015 08:29 PM)Suits Wrote:  Good choice.

The hotel thing just isn't a good fit for you (you don't want to manage people). I wouldn't hire you to be my hotel manager, no matter how much I liked you, because your heart wouldn't be in.

There's nothing worse than an apathetic manager.

It sounds like you have some good prospects in France.

Live cheaply, bank cash and ten years, you'll be able to invest back into Vietnam on your own terms.

There WILL be a lot of opportunities in Vietnam in ten years. The time isn't now for you.

Even if there is tons of development in Vietnam in the major urban centers (and there is thirty years of room for development in Hanoi, for example), there will be secondary cities that still haven't even started the process twenty years from now.

Do it your way.

Best post in this thread! Listen to this man...

Post: #71

With the recent events in Paris, I wonder if OP has started to reconsider things or not.

Vietnam may indeed be a better long-term bet.

Post: #72

(11-20-2015 07:46 AM)dreambig Wrote:  With the recent events in Paris, I wonder if OP has started to reconsider things or not.

Vietnam may indeed be a better long-term bet.

A couple hundred deaths from terrorism is horrific and always grabs headlines, but in terms of real risk to any given resident, it's minimal. Assuming they don't start succeeding with area-effect attacks like dirty bombs etc.

Vietnam has 5x more traffic deaths per person than France, food covered in chemicals and pesticides, residual cancer-causing Agent Orange in the soil, etc

I would wager Vietnam is the riskier place to be over the next 10 years in terms of health and safety risks.

That said, OP would be somewhat insulated as he's from a relatively wealthy background (e.g. can drive car vs motorbike, can eat imported veg/meat, etc)

Post: #73

^^ Wasn't referring to the risk of terrorism per se, but the islamization and upcoming civil war that seems more and more likely by the week.

Post: #74

An EU passport, in terms of sheer opportunity it affords you, might be worth more than the sale price of the hotel.

And however high your status in Vietnam would be if you went back now, it would be higher if you had that passport with you.

The time constraint is strange. I think your parents might be creating an artificial crisis to rush you into doing something that they know you don't want to do.
But I can be cynical.

Post: #75

OP
To me it seems like this hotel offer is not about giving you an opportunity, but about your mom wanting to combine going into the hotel business and getting you under her reign again.
From what you describe your parents have multiple businesses or one big one and some income on the side. It also seems like they don't need you for this hotel. I might be wrong, but you don't have experience in the hotel industry (nor are you studying hospitality or something related). Have you ever expressed wanting to own a hotel? I believe the answer will be no. So this scheme is not about getting you a hotel, but purely to get you back to Vietnam and in servitude to your mom.

I believe it's important for you to not be under your mom's financial control for a while. If you get a job in France that would be an excellent way.
If I were you I would stay in Europe, if 4,5,6 years from now you can still go back to Vietnam and start your own business (if investment is a problem, your sister seems the better partner). Or take over some of your parents' businesses or start one with them, but only within your frame. Essentially that's what it comes down to. Being your own man or being you mother's boy.
There will be a time when you can work with (or even for) your parent's but this is not the time.

Like someone mentioned, I believe the timing (you're about to start to be independent) and the time limit on the offer are examples of your mom (parents) gaming you. It's like a 30 something yr old chick trying to get a man to marry her under her terms instead of his.