Post: #51

(02-08-2016 07:30 AM)kbell Wrote:  After the surgery,did it heal quickly and completely?

I had surgery beginning of September. It took several months for it to be OK. Now at 5 months plus its getting real close to being 100%. Im probably at 85% right now. I exercise with 10 lbs weights and do lots of leg/upper/leg/upper workouts.

IE Lunges with 10 lbs weights, knee pushups, body weight squats, pull ups with a strong rubber band helping me going up and down so Im actually not pulling much weight, then step ups, then shoulder press with exercise bands.

Not going to lie, its a LONG road. But I torn a ligament from my chest off the bone in my shoulder, heard the pop, arm was in a sling for a while, then months later got better, but a year after that, reinjured it. So I was broken and it wasn't going to get better.

Getting an MRI with dye will let you know if its an actual tendon/ligament rip or just something that needs 1-2 months to recover.

Post: #52

So I saw the new doctor today. Was at the office for about 2 hours, saw the doctor maybe 10 minutes tops. It seems to a be a trend with orthopedic doctors they don't see you long, but he did have a ton of patients in the waiting room. I did x-rays for both arms, 4 per arm, which is at least twice as many x-rays per arm compared to the other doctor. I than talked to a tech guy who had me do these range of movements and asked me a lot of questions about the injury and previous doctor visits. The doctor came in who had extremely dark eyes, almost pitch black. But I liked him better than other. He said I could still do arm exercises if I locked them into my side to stop the shoulders from working. He than did all of these resistant movement test and thought I might have a tear in the L bicep tend since its more sore. He said there is a possibility I might not be able to bench press again ever. He picked up on my mild scoliosis which is probably why the one arm is worse than other. We scheduled an MRI next week.

The MRI sounds like a doozy beside being expensive. They inject in between the muscle with a long thin needle, dye. Than your in the MRI for 30 minutes where you have to remain perfectly still. This is almost impossible for me since I'm hyper, so I got him to prescribe me a valium for the day. Hopefully valium, plus some sort of harness, and my eyes covered will keep me from moving for that long. I'm more worried about that than the injection, which I also hate getting. After all that I see the doctor again, who if he sees a tear, might mean surgery.

These notes about the injury were helpful, since I was able to write up a timeline for him. If you guys get injuries write when it starts, doctor visits, PT and surgery dates. These doctors want this information concise and quickly.

Post: #53

(02-12-2016 07:59 PM)kbell Wrote:  So I saw the new doctor today. Was at the office for about 2 hours, saw the doctor maybe 10 minutes tops. It seems to a be a trend with orthopedic doctors they don't see you long, but he did have a ton of patients in the waiting room. I did x-rays for both arms, 4 per arm, which is at least twice as many x-rays per arm compared to the other doctor. I than talked to a tech guy who had me do these range of movements and asked me a lot of questions about the injury and previous doctor visits. The doctor came in who had extremely dark eyes, almost pitch black. But I liked him better than other. He said I could still do arm exercises if I locked them into my side to stop the shoulders from working. He than did all of these resistant movement test and thought I might have a tear in the L bicep tend since its more sore. He said there is a possibility I might not be able to bench press again ever. He picked up on my mild scoliosis which is probably why the one arm is worse than other. We scheduled an MRI next week.

The MRI sounds like a doozy beside being expensive. They inject in between the muscle with a long thin needle, dye. Than your in the MRI for 30 minutes where you have to remain perfectly still. This is almost impossible for me since I'm hyper, so I got him to prescribe me a valium for the day. Hopefully valium, plus some sort of harness, and my eyes covered will keep me from moving for that long. I'm more worried about that than the injection, which I also hate getting. After all that I see the doctor again, who if he sees a tear, might mean surgery.

These notes about the injury were helpful, since I was able to write up a timeline for him. If you guys get injuries write when it starts, doctor visits, PT and surgery dates. These doctors want this information concise and quickly.

Very good point.

Best of luck with the MRI. Unfortunate for the expense, but it's probably the only way to see soft tissue damage. I've had a couple MRIs for two different locations in one day, and it wasn't too bad.

At least you'll know then. I have a hard time following medical advice that isn't based on a measurable diagnosis. I.e. X-Rays or MRIs, lab tests, etc. Even my physical therapist had a protractor to measure flexibility. However, it is difficult to get good, consistent references on the body.

Here's to hoping for a clear result and a path forward.

Post: #54

Had the MRI, today. The actual MRI wasn't as bad as I thought, but I almost didn't do it when I saw what the machine looked like, and the sounds it makes. My valium at the time hadn't kicked in. Once the valium kicked in, I could shut off my obsessive thoughts and just be still. The worst part of the experience actually was the dye injection. They put a novacaine shot in the shoulder first which doesn't hurt much. However they then went on to use an x-ray and a huge needle which I fortunately did no look at to reach between the bones and inject dye and saline in that cavity. There was some problem doing it so rather than 1 minute it took 5-10 minutes of him moving the huge needle around and injecting all sort of crap in the arm. Without that valium I would have passed out since I was starting to feel the familiar stomach churning I get when I am about to faint or get very nervous, but greatly dulled.

The MRI was actually 40 minutes. The first part was 30 minutes which was very loud even with earplugs, and head phones on. I had a sleep mask on which made the experience bearable since the area is quite narrow, so not seeing it helped. Your in a giant donut like machine, head first. It makes all of these, clangs, beeps, machine gun beeps and vibrates sometimes. Since I was sort of in it like a sardine, and my legs were elevated I could not move except my hand to opperate a pump which would stop the test. I did this one time, since the speaker volume was too loud. This was a mistake to lower it since, when the machine was operational you could not hear the classical music at all. Also they could talk to you via an intercom during the procedure. Once the first part of the test was done, my legs were falling asleep so I got rid of the damn leg raise pillow.

After 30 minutes which went much faster than I thought, they did a more painful position. They had me raise my arm up and put me back in. This position is quite uncomfortable for the arm due the impingement and that the joint is all swollen up with the injected fluids. Fortunately it went fast. After all of the testing was done I was even higher. I had trouble getting dressed, and walking.

The test was a success according to the people running it and I see the shoulder doctor again next week, to see the next step.

Post: #55

I saw the doctor again today 2/26. In the MRI he found a cyst on my labrum which I believe is a ligament in around the shoulder bone. It is pushing the bone out of the socket, which makes the muscles weaker. No tears in the upper bicep tendon, just inflammed for a reason he didn't know yet. To fix the cyst would require surgery where its removed, and a plastic/calcium tack is used to bind the superior labrum to the shoulder in some way. I'd be in a sling for 4 weeks, the first 3 days 24 hours I think. Than I can take it out to put on shirts (have to slide them up the arm) and to do a weird exercise where I roll my arm in circles hanging down. After 4 weeks the sling is off and physical therapy for a month. After 4 months I can lift again, probably super light weights. He said I could lift normally with the other arm, but won't that cause one arm to be a lot larger than the other? I don't want to have such a huge imbalance that it would take years to fix.

Its also possible the surgery won't fix the inflammed tendon. He would be able to see the if there was anything extra he could due to the tendon while surgery so its not totally a bad idea to do the surgery.

Post: #56

I tore my labrum off the bone and had it reattached with screws that don't come out. For some perspective.

With labrum injuries there is also some tissue on top of the shoulder that gets removed. I can't remember exactly why but it's a side effect of hurting the labrum, the top of the shoulder also gets injured.

If you get the surgery just go slow, slower than even seems reasonable. Being in good shape is a lifelong thing, once the shoulder gets better you can start again and be careful.

I injured mine with overhead press. At the bottom of the movement I wasnt being careful and being too heavy, really tired after a long shift and snapped a ligament. Shit happens.

Post: #57

Should I work out the other arm while recovering? I don't think he will allow anything the first month. My concern doing this is that my one arm will be quite a bit larger than the other. Granted it will get some workout anyway as I have to do more tasks than usual with it.

If I do it I will do it in May, after the holidays. I have to cook a lot and move dishes around, which require both arms. Plus less layers to put on since it will hopefully be somewhat warm. And I can probably get away with wearing sandals more.

Are you able to lift overhead now and do pulls ups after the surgery? I assume Turkish get ups are something you never do though.

Post: #58

Man I wouldn't want to do it alone. I actually went back the states and my mom took care of me for a couple weeks. There is A LOT of icing and rest needed. It was honestly real bad for a couple weeks. In a sling for 6 weeks. But my injury was more serious.

For 3 months it's just stretching and getting range of motion back. Then exercise bands. Also lots of PT is needed. I didn't do it all. I went back to China and did it myself which has slowed down recover.

At 5 months I see the light at the end of the tunnel. I do 10lb weights and exercise bands. Knee push ups. For a long time I used 10lb on good arm. 5lb on bad. Even less to begin.

It's a serious endeavor. But if it's broken and ligament damage it won't ever improve. It's not a muscle or bone, they eventually repair. Ligaments rip and that's that. That's where the screws come in and waiting for tissue that has very limited blood supply around it for healing to get better and reattach.

Post: #59

I'm not doing it alone, I will be with family. If I follow what he says in terms of recovery suggestion, he claims I will be lifting probably at starting weights in 4 months. I was very punctual about physical therapy before. I will probably have someone drive me though, not wild about one armed driving. I don't think I will have that much overall muscle loss, but probably a ton of strength loss. So it does sound like you kept working out the other arm.

Post: #60

(02-26-2016 10:53 AM)kbell Wrote:  I saw the doctor again today 2/26. In the MRI he found a cyst on my labrum which I believe is a ligament in around the shoulder bone. It is pushing the bone out of the socket, which makes the muscles weaker. No tears in the upper bicep tendon, just inflammed for a reason he didn't know yet. To fix the cyst would require surgery where its removed, and a plastic/calcium tack is used to bind the superior labrum to the shoulder in some way. I'd be in a sling for 4 weeks, the first 3 days 24 hours I think. Than I can take it out to put on shirts (have to slide them up the arm) and to do a weird exercise where I roll my arm in circles hanging down. After 4 weeks the sling is off and physical therapy for a month. After 4 months I can lift again, probably super light weights. He said I could lift normally with the other arm, but won't that cause one arm to be a lot larger than the other? I don't want to have such a huge imbalance that it would take years to fix.

Its also possible the surgery won't fix the inflammed tendon. He would be able to see the if there was anything extra he could due to the tendon while surgery so its not totally a bad idea to do the surgery.

kbell, please get a second opinion from a sports medicine specialist before doing anything. This finding and the recommendation sound a little strange to me. What is a labrum "cyst"? And is major surgery really necessary, why can't it be aspirated?

I can't say one way or another but sometimes docs like to rush to surgery with a near-manic single-mindedness. Again, I would not do anything before getting a very thorough second opinion from a highly regarded sports medicine specialist. Ask both about the diagnosis and the available treatment modalities.

Post: #61

This is the second opinion. The other doctor wouldn't bother to do an mri and claimed it would just heal itself, which it did not. This doctor had all of the records from the previous doctor, and I heard he was the type to not rush into surgery.

The cyst was about the size of a marble in the tissue next the humerous head. To drain it would require surgery due to location. Arthroscopic surgery is minimally invasive. Three tiny 2 mm cuts are put around the shoulder. I can move my shoulder after 3 days, just for shoulder rolling, but its in a sling for a month. I can take showers as well.

I dunno what else they could do. Physical therapy hasn't fixed it, not exercising isn't healing it. Granted even this might not heal the tendenitis which bothers me.

Post: #62

Alright, if it's a minimally invasive arthroscopic surgery that's much better. I didn't realize that.

After the surgery, and once you're cleared to do so by the doctors, you should be very aggressive with physical therapy, rehab and massage. That's the best way to restore functionality and stimulate blood flow and a favorable growth hormone environment. Obviously you'll have to wait until cleared by the docs.

Good luck, I have no doubt it will be fine.

One other thing, this is an important time to use your light box religiously. Regular, consistent, high quality sleep is the single most important thing you'll need for rapid healing, maintaining a routine, and keeping your mood up.

Post: #63

Nice video on alternative exercises for labrum tears. This will help with exercises with the R one which won't be done fore quite some time.
My surgery is this coming Tuesday. Without insurance I would probably be about 10 grand, plus a few thousand for physical therapy and multiple doctor visits. Health insurance is a must, if your doing any type of weight training. With insurance you will meet your deductible, which your responsible for.

There is a lot of videos of the repair and people seem to regain their strength and range of motion from far worse tears than mine, which is encouraging.

Post: #64

Hope everything goes well for you.

Listen to the the lizard, rehab like your life depending on it. Its easy enough at first but after a while its boring as hell doing stupid exercises day after day, several times a day. I make a game out it. I hype myself up. Whatever it takes. Im still stretching, massaging, etc.

It takes a LONG time to get under the barbell for squats after labrum tear. At least for me anyways. I can bench and overhead press, which is surprising because I hurt it overhead pressing. Those two exercises work fine. But the shoulder is not flexible yet to lowbar squat and highbar is too much weight on the shoulder, not on the back muscles making a shelf for the bar.

Good luck with the labrum!

Post: #65

Had the surgery. Had to wait an extra 2 hours before the surgeon showed up. Hand feels super weird now and this sling looks like an exoskeleton. The doctor mentioned a lot of wear and tear, but not sure what that means until see him in two weeks. No stitches.

Post: #66

Fingers crossed for you buddy.

Two of my guys have had shoulder surgery in the last month. It has really knocked them about.

Post: #67

How did it knock them about? I think the trick now is take the pain meds every 4 hours including when sleeping. I have my timer set to wake me up at those intervals. Hopefully I'm not allergic to the meds since its derivative of a pain med I am allergic too.

Post: #68

(05-03-2016 03:01 PM)kbell Wrote:  How did it knock them about? I think the trick now is take the pain meds every 4 hours including when sleeping. I have my timer set to wake me up at those intervals. Hopefully I'm not allergic to the meds since its derivative of a pain med I am allergic too.

Yeah, take the meds but be careful if you start feeling very dehydrated and get dry eyes and mouth. I had an allergic reaction or a side effect and my eyes stopped producing tears. I woke up and my eyelids had scratched my eyes and it was incredibly painful, headache giving and I couldn't see very well, along with just having had major surgery on my shoulder.

I don't know if you got an ice machine or not, but ice your shoulder as much as possible.

Hope you have someone to help you with food and washing clothes.

Post: #69

Both of my parents are helping me with all of the issues. The timer on an android can be set to be 4:00 or 6:00 increments which great for remembering when to take pain meds. I am starting to get a bit more confident on putting pants on myself. No buttons yet though. My sling also puts my hand in front of me so I could theoretically play video games. Sleeping wasn't too bad since I slept in a recliner, except my one parent was sleep nearby and snoring. That didn't help sleeping, but neither did waking up every 4 hours either for the pain meds. This morning the pain is duller an I'm going to shoot for a 6 hour window between the next pain meds and do the exercise the doctor want me to do, gentle arm rotations. The doctor wants me off the pain meds fast, ideally in 2 days!!

Post: #70

Anyone here have a shoulder subluxation? Any tips and prevention methods for the future?

Post: #71

Saw the doctor again today. 2 more weeks than no more sling and physical therapy starts. He gave more exercises to do. I have several anchors in my arm with a kevlar sutures which holds the labrum tight. There was some flap of tissue he had to cut off too not sure what that was but he said it would re heal right. I have more range of motion than I thought at this point and don't have to wear the abductor pillow anymore.

Its best not to sleep on a leather recliner. I injured by muscles around the hip bones since I was on them so much. It still hurts to sit but is getting better. I think I will try using a ton of pillows on a softer recliner and go into sleeping on a bed faster if I need to do the other arm.

I will not be able to lock out on a benchpress so I will probably ditch flat bench pressing for another type. Hopefully flies and cables crossovers will work.

Post: #72

(05-18-2016 02:47 PM)kbell Wrote:  I will not be able to lock out on a benchpress so I will probably ditch flat bench pressing for another type. Hopefully flies and cables crossovers will work.

Whats would cause you to never be able to benchpress?

I had my shoulder surgery in September and now my shoulder blade is finally very stable and Im doing a lot of very slow, controlled push ups. Arms as close to my body as possible, tight. I have no issue locking out and I tore my labrum off, had it repaired. Just curious.

Post: #73

The one area the anchor is in the bone is deeper so the labrum isn't as wide there due to the suture tension. I'm not sure why it was done this way, perhaps due to where it was on the bone. The Doctor is ultra conservative about saying what I can do exercise wise, so who knows what I can do after I heal. I will probably learn a lot more about what I can and can't do in physical therapy and I've been thinking about hiring an experienced personal trainer afterward to fix imbalances.

The initial injury occurred most likely from the lockout position which is odd since the pain was when the bar was near the chest. I almost crushed my neck (when I was younger barbell fell on me) and severely bruised my foot (dropped a 45 lb plate on it while cleaning up the bench weights) while bench pressing as well so I'm leary about doing it as well. I want to find out a safe chest exercise which will work as well and that I can escape from the weights quickly if I fail the rep. But I won't be able to do this for another 3.5 months.

Post: #74

@ kbell - I'm no expert on rehabbing shoulder injuries but I can vouch for the effectiveness of the humble press up, it's overlooked by many but it's a great exercise, it's been a staple in my chest workouts for a long time in it's various forms. Narrow grip, wide grip, flat and incline press ups will give you a damn good workout without hitting any weights, you will also get just as good a pump with this kind of workout than you would using weights, if not better.

With an injury such as yours I would play it safe and come back to weight training slowly. It won't do you any harm in the long run to take a bit of time off heavy training and use alternative methods to stay in shape. Bodyweight exercises, swimming, mountain biking etc are all good alternatives to the gym, I know it's not the same as gripping the iron and hitting it hard but in your case needs must. Do something else - get shredded, develop a killer core, then when you're ready ease back into it.

I know it sucks to have an injury curtailing your training and halting your progress but you will get over it, surgery and rehab techniques are better than they've ever been and the level of information available on the internet is amazing. What would be disastrous would be coming back too soon and making it worse. Doctors are always conservative with exercise advice in these situations, why wouldn't they be. Most don't get where you're coming from and will take the safe route when giving advice and try to sway you away from lifting weights, not really understanding that you are going to hit the gym again at some point regardless of what they tell you - bear in mind doctors are not physio's and are not really qualified to give rehab advice beyond the basics.

You'll get good advice at the Starting Strength Forum, I've seen doctors who train posting on there.

http://startingstrength.com

Dr Kelly Starrett also has some good resources which might be worth a look. Next time you're passing a major book store pop in and take a look at his book - Becoming a Supple Leopard. His MobilityWOD website might also be worth a look, you have to pay for access but take a look at his videos on Youtube and see if you think it's worth it. I imagine you're going to be doing a lot of resistance band exercises for a while so his stuff will probably be applicable.

Post: #75

I've been out of the sling for almost a week now. Its a very strange experience. My arm tends to want to go to sling position several times a day (its improving though). When walking around it feels normal, but if I try to use it its extremely limited in range ( maybe about third of a range of motion), and I can hold about 1 lb for a short period of time. The shoulder is very week too which surprised me. Didn't know a sling could sap you of so much strength so quickly. I tend to forget its weak and will try to reach behind myself which can cause sharp pain. However I'm starting to adjust to it now. Physical therapy isn't bad yet, since its mainly stretching and muscle activation exercises, but I think its going to get more intense as my arm heals up.