Post: #1

Quote:Suicide claims thousands of lives every year - but figures show that men are around four times more likely to kill themselves than women.

It is thought to be the single biggest cause of death for men under the age of 50.

What I didn't realise until recently was that suicide is the biggest killer of men under the age of 50. A hundred men die a week. It is more prevalent than at any time in the last 14 years and men are four times more likely to end their own lives than women.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32231774

A Suicide in the Family will be shown on Panorama at 20:30 BST on BBC One, 13 April 2015 - or catch up on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05rcrx0

Post: #2

Quote:"I've always been quite an expressive person, I've always been into art and things like that and it's sort of, been quite effeminate, maybe.

It's not art that's effeminate, it's talking like a teenage girl.

Nobody taught these men how to be men, and so the problems began.

Get this guy running game, travelling, working out and working a real job (not whatever coffee-making rubbish these artists do for a living), and see if he's still depressed. Game isn't the solution, but it's a part of a holistic solution to men realising their full potential.

I'd add that whilst you should never be 'crying at your desk', it is important to have someone to talk to. It's a lot easier going through tough times when you can speak to someone who's already done it.

Post: #3

Wow, just wow.

This implies women only earn .20 suicides for every one a man earns!

We must close The Gap!

Post: #4

(04-13-2015 01:05 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  

Quote:"I've always been quite an expressive person, I've always been into art and things like that and it's sort of, been quite effeminate, maybe.

It's not art that's effeminate, it's talking like a teenage girl.

Nobody taught these men how to be men, and so the problems began.

Get this guy running game, travelling, working out and working a real job (not whatever coffee-making rubbish these artists do for a living), and see if he's still depressed. Game isn't the solution, but it's a part of a holistic solution to men realising their full potential.

I'd add that whilst you should never be 'crying at your desk', it is important to have someone to talk to. It's a lot easier going through tough times when you can speak to someone who's already done it.

Very true, unfortunately these academics will fail to understand this and instead add fuel to the problem, by trying harder to erode away 'masculine constructs'. By encouraging boys to never grow up to be men.

Post: #5

They need more conflict in their lives. They need harsh lives.
If they can't be happy with an easy life, then a miserable (comparatively) existence is the only option.
Life isn't hard enough, their minds wander to depression, a comfortable life is not for them.

edit- It's like the young guy raised in a NorKor "family" camp, finally escapes to SouKor, and is absolutely baffled by the suicide rates among people his own age. We as a species can't seem to take leisure.

Post: #6

(04-13-2015 01:47 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  They need more conflict in their lives. They need harsh lives.
If they can't be happy with an easy life, then a miserable (comparatively) existence is the only option.
Life isn't hard enough, their minds wander to depression, a comfortable life is not for them.

edit- It's like the young guy raised in a NorKor "family" camp, finally escapes to SouKor, and is absolutely baffled by the suicide rates among people his own age. We as a species can't seem to take leisure.

I don't think it's leisure we can't take. I think it's the alienation that comes with leisure and idleness.

When you're struggling, odds are you're working alongside people in the same boat. And although you all bemoan your employer (or teacher, or prison guard), there is a camaraderie and connectedness in that. And often men form deep bonds and become informal "teams" without realizing it.

But men are usually so goal-oriented, they often miss how important the bonds are -- until they don't have them. Then, you hear them talk incessantly about the old crowd...the very crowd they sought to transcend for a better life, only to realize the old life offered more than they had thought.

There's even a song about this, which I won't post because it's a sappy '70s Neil Sedaka ballad. But if you want to look it up, it's called "The Hungry Years."*

Women are better at keeping up friendships. Throughout the ages, men were connected to the community through their wives or through work. Remove both of those things and you have a lot of alienated, suicide-prone men.

* Addendum: I just re-listened to this song. It's not exactly about what I'd remembered. It has more to do with a relationship than missing an old crowd. Still, the larger point stands that reaching goals is not necessarily a positive thing emotionally.

Post: #7

I don't think it's the alienation, I think losing focus has more of an impact.
Goals are important, like blinders on a carriage horse. The horse is not distracted from the road it must travel, for safety of the passengers.
Men (speaking from me myself and I) are perfectly fine by themselves, alone, their goals keep them company.

Ambition keeps men alive, attention keeps women fed.

Post: #8

(04-13-2015 04:25 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  I don't think it's the alienation, I think losing focus has more of an impact.
Goals are important, like blinders on a carriage horse. The horse is not distracted from the road it must travel, for safety of the passengers.
Men (speaking from me myself and I) are perfectly fine by themselves, alone, their goals keep them company.

Ambition keeps men alive, attention keeps women fed.

It is true, I have known of some men who were virgins or not getting any female action way into their twenties, but they genuinely didn't mind because they had such a fire to pursue their goals.

One kid I knew was finishing a stem degree, while working as a reserve for military intelligence and the city Police, both of which are prestigious positions. Did he give a zero fucks about sowing his oats, not at all. I found it inspiring meeting him, when most guys his age are concerned solely by notch counts he was setting himself up for a genuinely exciting life.

Of course there is the best of both worlds, but masculine goals are demoted in today's world. I see a lot of men today who just have that fire taken out of them completely. So they seek to just get it in encounters within women. This does have positive effects, whenever you have had a one night stand with a beautiful women or a relationship it does strike out as a positive moment in your life, that you will probably always remember.

However a lot of men are thinking like a woman in terms of "If I get a hot girlfriend then I will be happy and have 'arrived' in life". Especially if they are dealing with the dysfunctional feminist types in the Anglosphere cities, they are essentially setting themselves up for disaster.

Post: #9

(04-13-2015 05:01 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  [quote='spokepoker' pid='999389' dateline='1428960322']

However a lot of men are thinking like a woman in terms of "If I get a hot girlfriend then I will be happy and have 'arrived' in life". Especially if they are dealing with the dysfunctional feminist types in the Anglosphere cities, they are essentially setting themselves up for disaster.

Amen brotha. You said it. This is the biggest problem.

I was like this 15+ years and it's very difficult to get out of this mindset given the lies society tells men day in and day out + family and religious backgrounds and upbringing in the Anglosphere. Women are just so ridiculously spoiled and self-centered and poor candidates for marriage and motherhood it's not even funny. Then you have divorce rape. Why even try in the Anglosphere? It won't get better til men say "enough" and just walk out of dance and say it's not worth it.

Post: #10

A journalist asks;

Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

The answer is in the question. Society does not care why.

Women who killing themselves like this would have caused a national outcry, the sports leagues would have some form of pink day, the country's leaders would have a 2 minute silence etc.

But men? Nobody cares. It has gone on long enough for this sort of thing to be at the forefront of society and yet it isn't. Breast cancer is way ahead of prostate cancer in awareness and funding but studies show men die at a higher rate.

And it is all down to society disregarding men and believing all men are macho action stars 100% of the time and don't need the help. Most of the homeless on the streets are men too but is there a national feed a hobo day?

Too few care. Its a difficult topic to discuss amongst men because we've been programmed to accept it.

Post: #11

Men are f*cking expendable and almost always have been. It's pretty clear to me at this point in my life not many women other than my mom give two fucks about me in a lot of ways and that goes double for much of society and our wonderful democratic governments. I guess it literally takes that kind of bond for most women to truly value men the way we do other humans in general.

But this isn't a woe is me post...I mean you gotta make your way in the world as a man and it's tough sledding but it's worth it. Trouble is the West generally doesn't put any value in this and now seems to actually be fighting against the average man in this regard. Crazy times.

Post: #12

(04-13-2015 05:54 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  A journalist asks;

Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

The answer is in the question. Society does not care why.

Women who killing themselves like this would have caused a national outcry, the sports leagues would have some form of pink day, the country's leaders would have a 2 minute silence etc.

But men? Nobody cares. It has gone on long enough for this sort of thing to be at the forefront of society and yet it isn't. Breast cancer is way ahead of prostate cancer in awareness and funding but studies show men die at a higher rate.

And it is all down to society disregarding men and believing all men are macho action stars 100% of the time and don't need the help. Most of the homeless on the streets are men too but is there a national feed a hobo day?

Too few care. Its a difficult topic to discuss amongst men because we've been programmed to accept it.

Absol-Goddamned-lutely right!!! They'd be trying to have "World Pink Day" or some shit like that if it were women.

Post: #13

(04-13-2015 05:54 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  A journalist asks;

Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

Divorce

Post: #14

(04-13-2015 07:45 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 05:54 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  A journalist asks;

Fatal silence: Why do so many fortysomething men kill themselves?

Divorce

^^If women in the USA were getting divirce raped like the men are, there would be calls by feminists for the mass murder of judges.

Post: #15

To be honest who cares. If a man kills himself, that's his fault. If there are problems, all he has to do is ask for help.

Post: #16

(04-13-2015 05:59 PM)Akula Wrote:  Men are f*cking expendable and almost always have been. It's pretty clear to me at this point in my life not many women other than my mom give two fucks about me in a lot of ways and that goes double for much of society and our wonderful democratic governments. I guess it literally takes that kind of bond for most women to truly value men the way we do other humans in general.

But this isn't a woe is me post...I mean you gotta make your way in the world as a man and it's tough sledding but it's worth it. Trouble is the West generally doesn't put any value in this and now seems to actually be fighting against the average man in this regard. Crazy times.

I want to respectfully take issue with your "men are expendable" line, which I keep seeing over and over in the manosphere. I cite Roissy as the originator of this concept and think he's wrong.

Pertaining to humans, "expendable" means "of little significance when compared to an overall purpose, and therefore able to be abandoned."

I disagree. In the reproductive sense, men are more expendable than women because sperm is cheap and eggs are expensive. But we're more than just f*cking machines. We need to survive -- it's what allows us to do the f*cking.

And in that larger, more important sense, men are not only not expendable, they're crucial. Expand the suicide epidemic more, and who is going to fix the road, the water pipes, and the broken segments of the power grid?

Who will deliver the food via truck? Who will oversee the difficult farming tasks that get you that food? Who drills for the oil? Who delivers the gas? Who fixes your car? Hell, who builds and designs that car? And so on.

With rare exceptions, women don't do these jobs. If they all died tomorrow, most everything we known in our day to day lives would keep right on going.

But without men doing these jobs, society ends within days. Therefore, people are not only being callous about men not caring about men's suicides, they're being irresponsible regarding the larger society as well.

Cumulatively, this is going to have an effect in a larger sense if this keeps up. What do you do when you take you car in, but your favorite mechanic hung himself the night before? What happens when the plane can't take off because some of the support crew killed themselves? This is what the media should be asking.

Post: #17

(04-13-2015 08:13 PM)Patrickstar Wrote:  To be honest who cares. If a man kills himself, that's his fault. If there are problems, all he has to do is ask for help.

Really? And who is going to help him? Imagine being a 40 something man, recently divorced, his house taken by ex wife and kids, has to pay child support for another 10 years and maybe spousal support, wife is fucking a new guy on the bed he bought in the house he is paying for. His job is hard to keep, but if he loses the job, It's very hard to get a new one at his age and he's still on the hook for child support. Can't get out of the country either because he doesn't have enough money and his passport may be cancelled if he tries to flee. Basically a slave.

Post: #18

(04-13-2015 08:50 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 08:13 PM)Patrickstar Wrote:  To be honest who cares. If a man kills himself, that's his fault. If there are problems, all he has to do is ask for help.

Really? And who is going to help him? Imagine being a 40 something man, recently divorced, his house taken by ex wife and kids, has to pay child support for another 10 years and maybe spousal support, wife is fucking a new guy on the bed he bought in the house he is paying for. His job is hard to keep, but if he loses the job, It's very hard to get a new one at his age and he's still on the hook for child support. Can't get out of the country either because he doesn't have enough money and his passport may be cancelled if he tries to flee. Basically a slave.

^^I agree with Brodiaga. Where is the help for "a man" coming from?

Post: #19

(04-13-2015 08:50 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 08:13 PM)Patrickstar Wrote:  To be honest who cares. If a man kills himself, that's his fault. If there are problems, all he has to do is ask for help.

Really? And who is going to help him? Imagine being a 40 something man, recently divorced, his house taken by ex wife and kids, has to pay child support for another 10 years and maybe spousal support, wife is fucking a new guy on the bed he bought in the house he is paying for. His job is hard to keep, but if he loses the job, It's very hard to get a new one at his age and he's still on the hook for child support. Can't get out of the country either because he doesn't have enough money and his passport may be cancelled if he tries to flee. Basically a slave.

It's bad enough that he'd get a lot of snide remarks from women, but he'd get plenty from men also. I mentioned some of these issues to a friend on Facebook today and he replied that no one forces men into these situations (including taking dangerous jobs or dropping out of school). The thing that blows my mind about that attitude is that he has two sons. Maybe they're not going to be as successful as he has been and will get tripped up by all of these things. They're certainly going to have to negotiate the cesspool of gender relations that currently exist and that will only get worse in the future. I wouldn't wish that upon any boy, let alone my own. This is coming from a middle class professional guy who lives in the suburbs. He's not an SJW, yet he is very much part of the problem.

Of course, boys and men are reacting to all of this. They're not going to be like Baby Boomer and Gen X men. They've seen their fathers, uncles, etc. get chewed up and spat out. Instead, some will move abroad (and take their skills and money with them). Others will drop out in one form or another. Some will become MGTOW, either deliberately or just because they have no aim in life. Some will become underclass thugs and general miscreants. At best, they will contribute tax dollars and be consumers. They won't build social capital though and become involved in their communities. They won't start businesses. They won't innovate. They won't marry women. Twenty years from now, everyone is going to be talking about an even bigger crisis of masculinity. It will be "where have all the good men gone?" on steroids. Idiots like my Facebook friend might even see this happen to his sons, or see his daughter get involved with such a guy. You can't tell them that now though because they're too busy white knighting against the War on Women.

Post: #20

(04-13-2015 08:45 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 05:59 PM)Akula Wrote:  Men are f*cking expendable and almost always have been. It's pretty clear to me at this point in my life not many women other than my mom give two fucks about me in a lot of ways and that goes double for much of society and our wonderful democratic governments. I guess it literally takes that kind of bond for most women to truly value men the way we do other humans in general.

But this isn't a woe is me post...I mean you gotta make your way in the world as a man and it's tough sledding but it's worth it. Trouble is the West generally doesn't put any value in this and now seems to actually be fighting against the average man in this regard. Crazy times.

I want to respectfully take issue with your "men are expendable" line, which I keep seeing over and over in the manosphere. I cite Roissy as the originator of this concept and think he's wrong.

Pertaining to humans, "expendable" means "of little significance when compared to an overall purpose, and therefore able to be abandoned."

I disagree. In the reproductive sense, men are more expendable than women because sperm is cheap and eggs are expensive. But we're more than just f*cking machines. We need to survive -- it's what allows us to do the f*cking.

And in that larger, more important sense, men are not only not expendable, they're crucial. Expand the suicide epidemic more, and who is going to fix the road, the water pipes, and the broken segments of the power grid?

Who will deliver the food via truck? Who will oversee the difficult farming tasks that get you that food? Who drills for the oil? Who delivers the gas? Who fixes your car? Hell, who builds and designs that car? And so on.

With rare exceptions, women don't do these jobs. If they all died tomorrow, most everything we known in our day to day lives would keep right on going.

But without men doing these jobs, society ends within days. Therefore, people are not only being callous about men not caring about men's suicides, they're being irresponsible regarding the larger society as well.

Cumulatively, this is going to have an effect in a larger sense if this keeps up. What do you do when you take you car in, but your favorite mechanic hung himself the night before? What happens when the plane can't take off because some of the support crew killed themselves? This is what the media should be asking.

Yeah fair enough I hear you. I was even thinking expendable was a bit too strong even as I wrote it but went with it anyway (after 4 beers).

But men were sent off to wars for thousands of years while women stayed at home so that's where I was really coming from. Using the term today is a bit much I guess and I totally agree with the angle you take.

Re the aftershocks, I think it's already happening to men right here right now. They call the ongoing recession the "mancession" in some papers, lot of male friends and family I know are out of work and having a hard time finding a job in theie chosen field of study (ironic how they are telling women to focus on careers when companies basically don't care about their employees and fire on a whim, and there's no job security anymore). And I can't tell you how many disgustedly divorced friends I know who got their ass handed to them in divorce court - sometimes even without children. Most are now ok, but it's been pretty tough for them of course.

No wonder so many guys are staring into the abyss (emotionally, financially and even socially) and seeing how screwed up society is (even after doing everything by the book right and being an honest, functioning member of society) and wondering what's next. I guess this unfortunately leads to suicide for some of these poor guys.

Post: #21

(04-13-2015 05:59 PM)Akula Wrote:  Men are f*cking expendable and almost always have been. It's pretty clear to me at this point in my life not many women other than my mom give two fucks about me in a lot of ways and that goes double for much of society and our wonderful democratic governments. I guess it literally takes that kind of bond for most women to truly value men the way we do other humans in general.

But this isn't a woe is me post...I mean you gotta make your way in the world as a man and it's tough sledding but it's worth it. Trouble is the West generally doesn't put any value in this and now seems to actually be fighting against the average man in this regard. Crazy times.

On the other hand unlike women. We do not have the option of the cop out of victim identity. This provides an impetus for men to transcend his former victimization achieving and become great in the process.

Post: #22

The current state of affairs, with feminists blaming men and masculinity for everything under the sun, is a lot like the Puritanical movement I feel. These social justice types are no longer the rebels of the 1960s, but they more represent nutty religious fanatics. The way that they shame and make irrational claims, while shielding themselves from any criticism on the basis that they are morally superior and don't need to use facts.

Personally I just avoid them, even if they are nice to me. Recently a girl I know added me out of the blue, she was talking to me, being very friendly. And then I saw on one of their news feed pictures that she had her effeminate looking father wear this feminist t-shirt. Generally I don't discern or affiliate my social life with my politics, but with all these nutters running around; I suggest for men to take a marxist attitude to these absolutely bat shit crazy fruit jobs. Luckily where I am based, there are still a lot of cool girls around who actually claim to reject all this rubbish, so I'm not alienating myself.

As what other people are saying, the quicker you come to terms with what Akula was saying, the better. Its a powerful realisation to have that you are essentially on your lonesome. I think this is why a lot of the original PUAs ended up getting depressed and contemplating suicide. They reached the stage of being able to bed hot women but they still didn't satisfy that yearning they had since they were high school nerds. To have that warm unconditional female loving coming from a woman other than their mother.

When people are attracted to you because of you are emitting that will power and focus towards your own mission in life and you are essentially doing your own thing. That is a lot better and worth a lot more because its beneficial for yourself and those who you let ride along.

Post: #23

(04-13-2015 08:50 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(04-13-2015 08:13 PM)Patrickstar Wrote:  To be honest who cares. If a man kills himself, that's his fault. If there are problems, all he has to do is ask for help.

Really? And who is going to help him? Imagine being a 40 something man, recently divorced, his house taken by ex wife and kids, has to pay child support for another 10 years and maybe spousal support, wife is fucking a new guy on the bed he bought in the house he is paying for. His job is hard to keep, but if he loses the job, It's very hard to get a new one at his age and he's still on the hook for child support. Can't get out of the country either because he doesn't have enough money and his passport may be cancelled if he tries to flee. Basically a slave.

Its better that men like us proactively help such men for example if you find a homeless man on the street you can sit down with them. Men are human and have their limits. If they are wounded instead of making the problem worse by lambasting them when they are hurting, help them heal 1st before getting them back on their feet. The grieving process needs to be gone through 1st.

Such men do not need to be broken, they are already broken by their experiences. One should only be a healing balm in such circumstances.

Although this is about MGTOW the video is relevant:




Whatever the terminology or their diagnosis of the problem. Their solution is pertinent.

Post: #24

I'm just going to focus on the numbers here.

This was a BBC article so the numbers apply to the UK only ; 100 per week, that's 5200 per year! That's more than die on the roads in the UK per year. That's more casualties in one year than the USA lost in the whole Iraq war from 2003- 2014. We might as well expand the UK armed forces to over 100,000 and have those casualties per year fighting ISIS!

Post: #25

(04-14-2015 05:46 AM)Guitarman Wrote:  I'm just going to focus on the numbers here.

This was a BBC article so the numbers apply to the UK only ; 100 per week, that's 5200 per year! That's more than die on the roads in the UK per year. That's more casualties in one year than the USA lost in the whole Iraq war from 2003- 2014. We might as well expand the UK armed forces to over 100,000 and have those casualties per year fighting ISIS!

Really good breakdown of the numbers here. Dunno if you have designs on doing writing, but this would make a great article on Return of Kings: "The UK lost more men to suicide than in Iraq."

You could also take the idiot SJWs to task on this one. They ran around protesting a war, but sit quietly for this subject. Even if the Iraq war was misguided, it had some purpose in that it did rid the world of a ruthless dictator. You can't find any good in those suicide numbers. So what should they really have been marching in the streets about?