Post: #26

In my lifetime I have experienced the following phenomena too many times to discount it as pure coincidence.

Thoughts manifest changes onto reality.
I believe this is why untreated Obsessives who learn to re-focus their Compulsive Disorder onto some type of Skill, become World Champions.

You can emulate this with practice, I have done it myself.

Post: #27

(04-11-2017 09:29 AM)ScrapperTL Wrote:  In my lifetime I have experienced the following phenomena too many times to discount it as pure coincidence.

Thoughts manifest changes onto reality.
I believe this is why untreated Obsessives who learn to re-focus their Compulsive Disorder onto some type of Skill, become World Champions.

You can emulate this with practice, I have done it myself.

Yes, there's quite a bit of research on this. Through the use of mindful attention, people seem able to affect their DNA and brain wiring/chemistry. By no means are people gods over their own biology, but this phenomenon certainly exists. Quite a few of the links on my previous post had to do with mindful attention. Here are those:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12595193
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9829025
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15771867
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.10...29063/full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18799354
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...d-control/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12883107
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4203918/

Post: #28

As long as you grasp the important and central point that 'thoughts' are imagined words and are based on language. You can speak out loud or to oneself, the latter is generally referred to as thought.

Thinking as we tend to define it is based on language, a human evolution.

You should atleast be considering the importance of that before you go all new-age with the "quantum mechanics therefore there is a soul, therefore there is an afterlife" mumbo-jumbo route.

Problem is, it's really annoying when you think about things deeply with real purpose and insight, only to have someone come along and be all "Quantum Mechanics woo"

Post: #29

The Gooz Boos -- The part about a 'soul' that I can't reconcile, If your consciousness and thoughts are somehow detached from your brain, why is it your cognitive abilities diminish with age, Alzheimer's and whatnot?

If your mind has rotted from old age or Alzheimer's, how can you say it's separate from your brain?

Post: #30

Quote:The Gooz Boos -- The part about a 'soul' that I can't reconcile, If your consciousness and thoughts are somehow detached from your brain, why is it your cognitive abilities diminish with age, Alzheimer's and whatnot?

If your mind has rotted from old age or Alzheimer's, how can you say it's separate from your brain?

That's a good objection and I used to run into this problem. It is flawed, however, in that it assumes the soul exists according to a substance-dualism model (the notion that all thought exists in the soul, independent of the body, and that the brain is merely an entry point). Dual-aspect idealism posits a much different relationship, that in brief and simple terms the soul is the quantum data, unified perception, and the observation of decision making processes altogether whereas the brain is the vessel in which this quantum data operates. This model allows for brain damage to negatively affect the mind as we have seen in some examples. The soul and brain are then inseparable during life, and it's only upon the cessation of all brain function (death) that the quantum data (soul) may begin to persist in another form. So I would not say that the mind is separate from the brain during life, but that consciousness, given the microtubule networks in the brain, implies that a non-material aspect of the mind must exist which is distinct in substance from the material brain.

Post: #31

Kavi, I provided sources. Also, thoughts are not mere language. Language codifies thought and allows us to communicate. Thought exists in terms of concepts, imagery, intention, desire, etc. Language merely conveys these things. It cannot contain their essence.

Does "thinking deeply" imply stifling certain perspectives to you? If we are talking about the nature of thought, it is absolutely relevant to explore any avenue that will help us discern the nature of thought, including dual aspect idealism and the physics of microtubules. Also, "new age"?

Post: #32

(04-11-2017 01:06 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  The Gooz Boos -- The part about a 'soul' that I can't reconcile, If your consciousness and thoughts are somehow detached from your brain, why is it your cognitive abilities diminish with age, Alzheimer's and whatnot?

If your mind has rotted from old age or Alzheimer's, how can you say it's separate from your brain?

You can regard Alzhimer as being a "faulty wire" that fails to transport information (consciousness). Brain functions as computer that governs your physical body and has connection to Internet (collective).

Post: #33

So you think our consciousness is on another plane of existence, and is simply connected to the physical world via brain / bodies ?

Post: #34

(04-11-2017 04:26 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  So you think our consciousness is on another plane of existence, and is simply connected to the physical world via brain / bodies ?

If it's me you're asking, then no, that's not what I think.

Post: #35

(04-11-2017 04:26 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  So you think our consciousness is on another plane of existence, and is simply connected to the physical world via brain / bodies ?

I regard whole reality similar to what Eastern religions / movements describe, but I don't necessarily consider myself buddhist, hinduist, jainist, or any of "-ists".
According to them we have physical body and non physical bodies. These bodies are all connected but inhabit separate planes of existences.
We could consider consciousness to be awareness transferred as a type of information to your physical body via brain that as I said, functions as a gateway, but at the same time is a CPU that powers your physical body.
Here is your answer why mental diseases basically make you vegetable, your "connections" become very limited.

Just wanted to offer alternative take on this whole deal, it sure its interesting.

Post: #36

No, it is not necessary that all the time's thoughts are real, sometimes they are imaginary also. The example you can watch the movies where you can see the different characters like superman or any superhero they all are imaginary, the thought of the writer.

Post: #37

I still dont see how something is non-material just because it is quantum. I see quantum mecahnics as a subset of material physics and not something on another plane or somehow non-physical and therefore do not entertain the idea that it allows for a 'soul'.

Just because we dont know how something works does not mean we are now free to postulate it is beyond the physical.

I have yet to see any evidence (ever, in the whole of human history) that there exists anything beyond the laws of physics.

Post: #38

It's simple.

1) If the brain is quantum, there must be an observer to collapse it into one state.
2) If a quantum thing is its own observer, then it can't be a quantum thing.
3) The brain is a quantum thing.
---
⁂) The brain must have an observer that is something other than the brain.

Is there something physical inside your skull which observes all of the inner workings of your brain? If so, justify calling it an observer.

Post: #39

Quote:I see quantum mecahnics as a subset of material physics and not something on another plane or somehow non-physical

The quantum world is a world of information. In it lie the functions and data of potentiality and probability. Information and functions in and of themselves are not material. But it is from this information that the physical world is, as we say, "emergent". There is overwhelming evidence to show that materialism is a logical absurdity, maybe we can talk about that in another thread. Heck, I'll make that thread.

Post: #40

All matter has "probability of motion" like the double-slit experiment where light behaves like a wave or particle depending on the observer. Strings in spacetime oscilate in various ways before they manifest into something.

I believe our thoughts and our potential choices are manifested in the infinite multiverses which are a reflection of the potential choices we have.

I.E. in one universe you're homeless in another universe you're a rockstar.

A light particle doesn't pick a "path" until it's observed, I think our choices reside in infinite multiverses until we manifest them in this realm.

Post: #41

A lot of bad science and hokey pokey spiritual stuff here.

I am going to come in hard as Laska calls me "materialist" and say thoughts are just software running between your CPU and RAM in the wet wired brain between your ears.

They are real in the sense that are a electro-mechanical reaction, full understood by the laws of physics.

It could be replicated by a machine (although not with current technology)

Post: #42

(12-31-2017 09:48 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  It could be replicated by a machine (although not with current technology)

Yeah, but could a machine dream?

The point being could a machine differentiate between conscious and subconscious thought?

It's unlikely that a machine would even comprehend subconscious thought in the first place.

So I guess that our thoughts will never truly be replicated by a machine.

Post: #43

One problem I have with the "it's just a simulation" idea is that the same question could be posed at the outer level, and the level above it, ad infinitum. It's simlar to the creator paradox. If there's a creator, then who created the creator, and so on... At one point I thought they were gonna pull that card with the Matrix sequels but they didn't. The reality layer in The Matrix was presented as THE reality.

But this inability to deal with the outer layer makes it feel like a cheap excuse to me.

At the same time, there is a genuine problem here, which is freewill vs. destiny.

Quantum theory seems to be heavily related to chaos theory.

Where freewill comes into play is whenever we make a decision. That was something that was raised in the infamous Architect scene in Matrix Reloaded.

There's probably some interaction of neurons that would have prevented either of the Wachowkis deciding to have sex-change operations, and yet the ones that played out lead them to both lop off their dongs.

But it's that moment when you're mulling something over when contemplation changes to action, THAT is mysterious, especially when you're going to do something truly original or counter-intuitive.





What depresses me the most about red-pill thought is the biology is destiny aspect of human nature, especially when it comes to women. You hook them using a predefined script, and then they fly the coop as soon as someone better comes along, and this seeming predictability almost makes it hard to think of women as having actual freewill rather than than just being automatons following linear programming.

Post: #44

The last time I thought about Schrödinger's cat too much, here's what happened...

Post: #45

Consciousness is Logos, the Holy Spirit, call it what you will.

It is real, but obviously not material. It is more than the sum of its parts.

"Thirty spokes converge at the hub, but emptiness makes the wheel." Or, "what use is a room without doors and windows?" While the physical is necessary, it is the non-physical that makes it useful. That is where the great spirit of consciousness comes into play.

Delving too much into empiricism/naturalism/skepticism is a mistake. The English created those philosophies to disprove God so they didn't have to follow a moral code.

Post: #46

Another question I think about is, why do we dream? What do our dreams mean, and are our dreams telling us something?

Post: #47

(01-01-2018 09:34 PM)Pancho Wrote:  why do we dream?

If we accept that we only dream when we sleep, then a way to answer the "why do we dream" question is to think about why we sleep.

From an evolutionary perspective, I tend to favour the idea that sleep evolved as a mechanism to keep us safe at night. Keeping us hidden away in caves, surrounded by others and protected from predators.

Maybe dreams were an evolutionary device to make us willing to sleep, to see sleep as a means to dream, a journey into another place that we could not explain but yet were compelled to revisit.

Post: #48

Dreaming is like going on a relaxing walk to think; it's the individual's time to get in touch with his inner creativity and imagination. These are the tools you use to create new reality, and dreams are a time for you to exercise these tools unfettered from the mundane processes of daily life or stifling collectivist dynamics. It's also a time to look deep into your pysche and to have a sort of confession with yourself.

Post: #49

first we should define what real means.

Post: #50

(01-02-2018 04:41 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  first we should define what real means.

If I stub my toe, that's real, no matter what some Scottish empiricist tells me.