Post: #26

Inside the corporate world it's 1984, outside the corporate world it's Brave New World.

Post: #27

(03-28-2015 08:59 AM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 08:33 AM)magicone Wrote:  both of them were right, we are living right now in a world that resembles more and more primarily as "1984",
and secondarily as "Brave New World"

Ten years ago I would have agreed with you but I think varies from person to person. My life curently resembles Brave New World primarily.

Yes, it's a "glass half full of arsenic vs. glass half full of cyanide" kind of question lozlzozllz.

I love Orwell's idea of doublespeak however, they idea of just saying some thing is true when it isn't and then acting on that is amazingly prevalent.

Post: #28

(04-03-2015 02:43 AM)Alpha_Romeo Wrote:  Inside the corporate world it's 1984, outside the corporate world it's Brave New World.

This is a great point, +1 from me. The sense of fear in the private sector is often so palpable.. mortgages hang over people's heads so much like swords.. you can't quit no matter what, just go to another master.

Post: #29

(03-28-2015 08:59 AM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 08:33 AM)magicone Wrote:  both of them were right, we are living right now in a world that resembles more and more primarily as "1984",
and secondarily as "Brave New World"

Ten years ago I would have agreed with you but I think varies from person to person. My life curently resembles Brave New World primarily.

Heh heh. I hate to rub it in your face, boys. But my life in the Philippines is like a cross between Heart of Darkness, Henry Miller, and Typee

God I'm lucky. So far.

Post: #30

Both, without doubt.
The books really aren't that different in terms of the themes they cover:

BNW-Bernard is an Alpha, constantly unsure of his position and authority because he doesn't look like one-ends up becoming a 'rebel'.
1984-Winston's endless musing on Party rank and the proles as fomenters of rebellion lead him to try and find out the reality of the past from the proles and eventually become a rebel.
Discontent with a status quo is what any totalitarian regime wants to supress, hence stratified society, whether rank, money, family-it's always there, keeping you striving to get up a rung or stay where you are, not happy but accepting.

BNW-Everyone is encouraged to buy new shit instead of repairing-"ending is better than mending".
1984-Every good has status attached to it-Inner Party coffee, etc-and the war encourages conspicuous production and consumption.
To support the economy and the ruling party's power, people produce stuff which is economically worthless but desirable, or they are forever chasing after necessaries in short supply and adding to the war effort (also prodincing desirable but worthless munitions) in the hope that it makes more available-razor blades, chocolate, whatever. Your every activity as a worker, consumer or participant is hemmed in, guided and controlled.

BNW-family is abolished and sex is as common and emotionally significant as taking a shit.
1984-family is fractured, threatened-look at Parson, Winston's neighbour-and genuine relationships, sexual or otherwise are discouraged as distracting from loyalty.
Totalitarian regimes want every citizen to look to them and nobody else as the object of love, fervour and loyalty. Ideas, not people.

BNW-most people can't wrap their heads around ideas-one newspaper is printed in one-syllable words, the Feelies are a medium that doesn't need to explain concepts. Language is destroyed.
1984-Newspeak is created to alter how everyone thinks and speaks, so that certain concepts can't be articulated. Language is destroyed.
Rebellion even in your head won't be allowed.

There's always a real-life equivalent if you look around. Orwell and Huxley didn't believe their dystopias would come to pass, but there's really nothing new under the sun in that regard, or many others in the political world.

Post: #31

Brave New World and nearly everyone on the forum is a victim of this new mentality too and they don't even realize it. LOL

Post: #32

(04-03-2015 11:28 AM)cocotte Wrote:  Brave New World and nearly everyone on the forum is a victim of this new mentality too and they don't even realize it. LOL

Post: #33

(03-29-2015 06:17 AM)Lizard King Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 02:45 PM)kbell Wrote:  I always thought prozac was basically Soma. Although caffeine and sugar could be as well. Haven't we discussed this before as well?

TV, media, internet is a Soma of our times.

(04-03-2015 11:28 AM)cocotte Wrote:  Brave New World and nearly everyone on the forum is a victim of this new mentality too and they don't even realize it. LOL

This is the only forum I visit on a regular basis. I have cut other forums out completely as I realized they were as much a pointless, mind-numbing distraction as the TV shows that the plebs and drones around me rave about.

Mindlessly surfing the web is a destructive habit. I'm working on kicking it. Starting to type the address of forums I used to frequent into my browser is still almost a reflexive action when 'bored'. I have nothing to be bored about, I have a busy business and constructive hobbies such as gym and music. I still find myself clicking on RVF out of 'boredom'. Yet when I do, a thread like this re-awakes and stimulates my mind. Thank you RVF.

Soma was a government-issued drug in Brave New World. Parallels have already been drawn with it and cheap alcohol, shitty TV and other things plebs enjoy. As to the 'government issued' side of it- to my mind this is the strings that are pulled to keep people poor, in dead end jobs, so that cheap alcohol and shitty TV seem like the highlight of a day.

I've always been a free thinker. Rampant consumerism has always disgusted me. I live for practicalities, mechanical things, music. I find it exceptionally hard to engage with those who's lives revolve around the soma of today. It's only since discovering RVF that I've discovered I'm not such an anomaly. How ironic that it was through the use of soma (mindless web surfing) that it occurred.

Post: #34

(04-03-2015 02:43 AM)Alpha_Romeo Wrote:  Inside the corporate world it's 1984, outside the corporate world it's Brave New World.

But this is actually how it was in the 1984 - those in the upper rungs of the party lived under rigid controls, while the proles outside of the party were placated with bread and circuses.

Post: #35

Neither of these dystopias bears the least resemblance to the crazily interesting, various and complex world that we live in today.

The difference is that "1984" is, in its first half, a great book about dreariness, inspired by the depth of Orwell's feeling about the dreariness of life in postwar England and the far worse, nightmarish dreariness that some of the monstrous totalitarian regimes of the 20th century have created for their people; it is Orwell's best book until it goes off the rails in its unfortunate second half. Whereas "Brave New World" is a contrived bit of allegory, utterly thin and bloodless, and the less said about it the better.

Post: #36

The results of this poll are extremely interesting.

Post: #37

Both. As a matter of fact you can call our culture one of "Trivial Captivity." Though if I had to pick one I'd say Brave New World a bit more than 1984. We're definitely drowning more in an overabundance of pleasure - hedonistic narcissism, than pain.

Post: #38

Both.

Our government is trending toward 1984 while our society slides into Brave New World.

This forum does a pretty good job of seeing the BNW aspects of society, so here's a point in 1984's favor as a model of the future: One of the more recent buzzwords around tech is the IoT or "Internet of Things". It's the idea that everything will be connected to the internet: your fridge, your washer and dryer, your light switches, your electrical sockets. Everything that has an electrical current can be connected to the internet for a few dollars now and presumably only pennies in a few years. This will be tracked and recorded like all other internet traffic in the US is already tracked and recorded. Orwell would be horrified to see a level of surveillance where every electrical device in your household and on your person functions as a telescreen.

We're less than 10 years away from tracking and analyzing every stroke in people's VR masturbatoriums.

And this is the world our ancestors fought and died for...