Post: #26

Enigma: No, you are misinterpreting statistics. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to lots of people. These places are demonstrably more dangerous places as proven by the statistics. There are lots of dangerous activities in which one can engage, but simply because someone hasn't died from smoking, riding motorcycles or engaging in unprotected homosexual sex does not mean that these things are safe things to do. The proof of the pudding for this kind of thing would be to try to get insurance for those kinds of places. Actuaries don't screw around with this kind of stuff. They know what's what and price it accordingly. As I also mentioned, every other crime from assaults to robberies to the local authorities shaking your business down are off the charts in those places. It's not just that you're more likely to be murdered, it's that those places are demonstrably less ordered and more fractious places where there is a massive waste of human potential as a result.

As for happiness, these kinds of things set up a false dichotomy where you're either an obese, chronically depressed SJW a la Lindy West, or you're a happy, dirty, dirt poor third world citizen. The modern developed world is an objectively better place more conducive to fulfilling human potential and real happiness than any other place or time, present or in history. This is why so many of those people want to be where we are. Furthermore, if push really came to shove, all but insane missionaries or hippies from the West would never wish to actually raise their own kids in such an environment. The people who are stuck there have to put up with it, but for all of their claims of happiness, they'd leave in a heartbeat. That's why the immigration is basically unidirectional from all of these supposedly happy countries to the supposedly unhappy ones.

It's a modern spin on the noble savage that all of these people starving, dying, seeing their kids die in infancy and all the rest of it are somehow more enlightened and contented than us. Furthermore, it's patronising to them. Again, perhaps these people self-report as being happier because they buy into a worldview that tells them to know their place and shut up about it. I'm immensely grateful that some of my ancestors had the good sense not to be happy about their lots in life.

Post: #27

(03-29-2015 09:48 AM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  As for happiness, these kinds of things set up a false dichotomy where you're either an obese, chronically depressed SJW a la Lindy West, or you're a happy, dirty, dirt poor third world citizen. The modern developed world is an objectively better place more conducive to fulfilling human potential and real happiness than any other place or time, present or in history. This is why so many of those people want to be where we are. Furthermore, if push really came to shove, all but insane missionaries or hippies from the West would never wish to actually raise their own kids in such an environment. The people who are stuck there have to put up with it, but for all of their claims of happiness, they'd leave in a heartbeat. That's why the immigration is basically unidirectional from all of these supposedly happy countries to the supposedly unhappy ones.

Why are so many people, in civilized countries, on anti-depressants?

I think you are building up several false dichotomies here. For example:

Quote:This is why so many of those people want to be where we are.

Many people want to be where we are because of the media portraying it something it isn't. The ideas floating around about how people live, in 1st world countries, can actually be pretty hilarious and crazy unrealistic.

There are more money making opportunities here. That alone does not equal happiness.

Quote:This is why so many of those people want to be where we are. Furthermore, if push really came to shove, all but insane missionaries or hippies from the West would never wish to actually raise their own kids in such an environment.

Another... people who grew up knowing one culture will naturally gravitate to feeling at home there. I have spent years away in places like Australia and still felt a need to come back to the US from time to time in order to reconnect with things and people I was missing. This is natural no matter if you are living in a 1st world country or a 3rd.

Quote:It's a modern spin on the noble savage that all of these people starving, dying, seeing their kids die in infancy and all the rest of it are somehow more enlightened and contented than us. Furthermore, it's patronising to them. Again, perhaps these people self-report as being happier because they buy into a worldview that tells them to know their place and shut up about it. I'm immensely grateful that some of my ancestors had the good sense not to be happy about their lots in life.

Not everyone is starving and/or dying. In any case, we have death here in the 1st world country and people still manage to be happy. Maybe it's all of those ant-depressants. In any case, living in a 1st world country and moving to a 3rd will disrupt your reality. These people grew up there and that is their reality. You honestly don't think people can be happy in those countries simply because you couldn't imagine growing up and living there. It isn't your reality.

Happiness is a state of mind. Pulling out statistics is not reasonable to try and explain why people are happy or unhappy. What I do know is people, in the west, do have a much easier life yet they are some of the most drugged up zombies on this planet. As you said, they have the most resources to attain their potential yet the most unhappy.

Sometimes having too much choice leads to unhappiness.

Post: #28

The happy planet index is self-reported happiness. It's subjective. If Bhangladeshis self-report higher happiness than Finns, then the value of this index speak for itself: completely bogus. It's the same silly canard when people say; "Asia is much more optimistic than Europe". Yeah, I'm sure if your economy grows 6-8% per year, it will give you a sense of job security, while at the same time you'll also see your salary substantially growing every decade -- what's not to like, right?

A lot.

Your income and quality of life (freedom of speech, rule of law, health care, corruption, democracy, etc.) will still be objectively shit compared to the developed world. On average Chinese people really are nowhere near France, or Italy or even Greece for decades in any meaningful development measure. And the Chinese are the only developing nation who really have a shot of closing the gap between the developed and the developing world. What you need is: the human development index, and then you'll see a more familiar pattern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Check Costa Rica's stats here:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications...os/cs.html

It's not bad, but it's very mediocre compared to the countries high on the HDI list.

PS I'm not dissing on central America, a city like Panama could develop into something like Dubai or Singapore if they keep on doing what they're doing right now.

Post: #29

(03-29-2015 01:19 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Many people want to be where we are because of the media portraying it something it isn't. The ideas floating around about how people live, in 1st world countries, can actually be pretty hilarious and crazy unrealistic.

There are more money making opportunities here. That alone does not equal happiness.

Happiness is a state of mind. Pulling out statistics is not reasonable to try and explain why people are happy or unhappy. What I do know is people, in the west, do have a much easier life yet they are some of the most drugged up zombies on this planet. As you said, they have the most resources to attain their potential yet the most unhappy.

Sometimes having too much choice leads to unhappiness.

Well that is not actually true. People of these countries don't even always migrate to rich western countries.

Just looking at that list, paraguayans are a huge minority not very appreciated in argentina, nor colombians in chile or central americans in mexico.

I don't think the media is selling a mexican/chilean/argentinean dream.

Of course not everyone, but a big part of people in this countries are actually experiencing hungry or violent deaths of their relatives. It is not the violent gangs members the only people included in the murder rate. A huge part of it are the middle class citizens who get stabbed for a cellphone. The girls taken from their families by the drug cartel families, etc.

When humans are in death risk or hungry they just don't say but hey we live in a country with beautiful women and nice food. They just get the hell out of there trying to get the better habitat to survive.

And criminals don't stab people just because they "have to" to get their phones, they do it because they are angry, they are angry by being born poor and not having enough chances (or enough brain) to break the cycle of not getting enough qualifications to get a decent job, and getting a teenage slut pregnant, having to raise their poor childs. So, they relive their rage beating and killing the low and middle class workers. (the same kind of situation that i read illustrated in this forum of blacks in north america or north africans in france, but boosted and multiplied exponentially by the lawless environment that inefficient institutions and lack of trust in them)

I don't think the angry people and their victims are very happy.

I know most venezuelans and hondurans are actually trying to get the fuck out of there as crime is out of control. So i highly doubt that is true in that particular cases, that also makes me doubt of the veracity of that poll.

Anyway, even the ones who criticize their culture or way or living more would be agressive towards you if you criticize them as well, it is a very weird nationalism mixed with inferiority complex. I think that might be a determinant for the results in the poll.

Post: #30

(04-01-2015 01:02 AM)Dat ass Wrote:  Well that is not actually true. People of these countries don't even always migrate to rich western countries.

Just looking at that list, paraguayans are a huge minority not very appreciated in argentina, nor colombians in chile or central americans in mexico.

I don't think the media is selling a mexican/chilean/argentinean dream.

You must have never seen those Mexican telenovas. All of those types of shows/movies are selling a dream otherwise people wouldn't watch them. People just don't wake up and say, "I think I will move to Mexico" unless they saw something that made them think those places were better.

Quote:Of course not everyone, but a big part of people in this countries are actually experiencing hungry or violent deaths of their relatives. It is not the violent gangs members the only people included in the murder rate. A huge part of it are the middle class citizens who get stabbed for a cellphone. The girls taken from their families by the drug cartel families, etc.

What is a big part? How many people are starving?

You guys are saying the majority of people are not happy because of starving, murder, etc. I lived in a place where it was considered dangerous. Drugs, guns, theft... we had it all.

Yet, I was happy. How could that be if you looked at the stats of the place?

I will ask you the same question I asked another poster. Why are large portions of 1st world countries on drugs like anti-depressants if it is better? They are supposedly safer, in these countries. They have much more opportunities. Why do they need drugs to get through the day?

You guys keep trying to break this down into stats and using your own preconceived views of what it would be like to live in a place like that.

You got gringos going to and living in places like Colombia where they will always be considered a mark by many of the people there. Always having to be aware of your surroundings and the possibilities of being robbed and/or murdered.

Yet many of those guys are happy or they say they are.

You adapt to your environment. Bad stuff happens in every country. That alone doesn't mean people are miserable, in general, and no amount of murder stats or child mortality rates will ever paint an accurate picture of something like happiness. I do think people in more economical viable countries forget how little it takes to actually survive. Hell, most people, in many countries, would think not having a television was poverty and thus be unhappy. God forgive those little kids who grow up without video games and actually have to play with other kids helping to develop their social awareness. The misery.

Post: #31

(04-01-2015 04:15 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  You must have never seen those Mexican telenovas. All of those types of shows/movies are selling a dream otherwise people wouldn't watch them. People just don't wake up and say, "I think I will move to Mexico" unless they saw something that made them think those places were better.

People don't even have to look at mexican telenovelas, a lot of latin countries produce their own telenovelas, where "rich" people are the stars too. That is like if i tell you people move to Dominican Republic just because they see videos of rich singers driving expensive cars. In fact, these people are moving between the same countries, a lot of people in the rural areas where people find hard to get even a basic wage or services (or where a multinational company starts mining affecting the lives of their habitants), get to move to the cities. If you decide to move from northwest to florida i think it's because you get some kind of incentive.

Quote:What is a big part? How many people are starving?

Probably not the majority of people are starving, that is right. But the majority in a country with a murder rate up to 25%, probably has at least one familiar or friend hurted or killed by urban violence. Most of the poverty in latin america is concentrated in rural areas. But you have a component in the city.

I found hilarious that in the biggest countries with strong economies like, Mexico, Peru and Colombia, the urban middle class just don't even like to accept that this kind of stuffs happen.

They tell you that foreigners have this idea of people living in poverty. And you are like, dude but that is true, just go outside of bigger cities and you will find a lot of that (in fact go to the marginal zones in the city and you will find a large population of the city living badly). But they just like to pretend that kind of stuff doesn't exist. And foreigners who move there seem to take that position.

In fact if you know spanish and can look at some popular youtube channels, if the middle class white boys and girls start a flame war they try to offend people from the other latin country by telling them how their country have more % of indians, blacks, poverty, etc. Like if they where some kind of plague.

Quote:I will ask you the same question I asked another poster. Why are large portions of 1st world countries on drugs like anti-depressants if it is better? They are supposedly safer, in these countries. They have much more opportunities. Why do they need drugs to get through the day?

I think the emigration rates make evident that people in this places are not particulary happy because their surroundings, why else would you abandon the core of their lifes, their families as people mention it here?

But it is true that we don't use so much pharmaceutical stuff, i suppose it is because whe don't have so much time (or faith) to put on it. We just don't have time to think in that kind of bullshit. Medical serivces don't work so well and middle-low classes don't have money to spend in psychiatrist or drugs.

You still would find that in the middle to high classes of latin america. Everytime i got "depressed" my mother told me to fuck off and do something else, an sport, help cleaning, another job. Occupy my mind, wich that is the most logical solution. But i can say i have some cousins and friends who go into pharmaceuticals.

The issue with that stuff in western countries and the people who can afford it in latin america, is that they boost that kind of shit by just believing that they are helping themselves, just to pharma corporations can sell them that shit, making them believing that they are getting better consuming it.

Quote:You guys keep trying to break this down into stats and using your own preconceived views of what it would be like to live in a place like that.

I don't use stats, i use my experience growing in a not so good neighborhood, having a large family of different social backgrounds and origins arround Latin america, having good friends from different countries too and living for long periods in different cities.

Quote:You got gringos going to and living in places like Colombia where they will always be considered a mark by many of the people there. Always having to be aware of your surroundings and the possibilities of being robbed and/or murdered.

Yet many of those guys are happy or they say they are.

Yeah.... i'm sure a gringo in Colombia probably lives the same kind of live that a big part of people in towns near cali, who are constantly pushed out by cartels.
https://news.vice.com/video/buenaventura...ull-length

Or maybe they have to walk everyday in a comuna where people are theatening them trying to recruit them to join a gang since they where childs.

I can imagine some average comuna teend reading a forum how to get more notches, take advantage of geoarbitrage or generate income online.

To resume, living in the neighborhoods that they usually pick is not the real city, it is the part that it's actually taken care, so the very wealthy citizens can live more chilled. You won't get so much problems there compared with an average neighborhood or a shitty one, but people have to live there because they can't afford to move. When you are growing up that kind of influence is exponential as you don't have a car, so you have to walk and get in direct contact with that.

Quote:I do think people in more economical viable countries forget how little it takes to actually survive. Hell, most people, in many countries, would think not having a television was poverty and thus be unhappy. God forgive those little kids who grow up without video games and actually have to play with other kids helping to develop their social awareness. The misery.

Right, in a country like Honduras where 50% of people live in poverty, people are just bothered because they don't have a TV
http://pobhonduras.blogspot.com.ar/



Again. I'm not saying that most of the pople in LA is living in poverty. There is a big disparity between some countries and even inside them. But you have to accept that half of the countries in that top ten have serious problems, and that shows up with the fact that they are going other places.

I would ask why the poor but happier just seems to apply mostly to Latin America and SEA?

Post: #32

I always thought the Scandinavian countries were supposed to be the happiest in these sort of polls. I do know that anytime some leftist is angry about something in America they'll always point to the Nordic nations as a counterpoint.

Post: #33

(04-01-2015 01:02 AM)Dat ass Wrote:  Anyway, even the ones who criticize their culture or way or living more would be agressive towards you if you criticize them as well, it is a very weird nationalism mixed with inferiority complex. I think that might be a determinant for the results in the poll.

This is truly ironic.

75% of the content on this forum is dedicated to discussing the decline of Western civilization and how to game/live in other parts of the world. There is a reason for that.

Most Western guys here openly dislike -- and even hate -- the government and general population of their home country.

Yet they're in this thread trying to convince us that the West is the happiest place in the world.

They'll talk about how unhappy and unfulfilled women, feminists, betas, etc. are, how bad the economy and unemployment are, how out of control the government is, and how the food and medicine are poison ad nauseum in other threads, yet where is all of that here? It's just, "those other countries have less money and some of them have higher crime rates, so obviously there's no possible way that anyone there is happy".

Not to mention what I've pointed out before, that guys are purposefully twisting the meaning of the term "happiest".

If 5% of Colombians are happy, compared to only 4% of Americans, the former is happier. Hell, 99% of both countries could be completely miserable, yet if the Colombians are just slightly less miserable, they would still be happier.

It is a comparison, not a declaration that all Latin Americans are just walking on rainbows and have absolutely no problems whatsoever.

To continually and deliberately ignore the other side of the comparison (the corrupt and degenerate West that most of you don't even want to live in) is to throw all logic out of the window.

But of course, Latin Americans lied about their happiness for the poll (because of their "inferiority complex"), implying that people in Western countries are infallible and obviously told the whole truth

Ah, that's right, the Americans weren't technically lying, they were just doped up on so many antidepressants and artificially flavored food that they truly believed they were happy.

Post: #34

(04-01-2015 07:33 PM)Dat ass Wrote:  I think the emigration rates make evident that people in this places are not particulary happy because their surroundings, why else would you abandon the core of their lifes, their families as people mention it here?

Why are Americans not only expatriating but renouncing their citizenship in record numbers?

Post: #35

(04-02-2015 12:48 AM)Enigma Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 07:33 PM)Dat ass Wrote:  I think the emigration rates make evident that people in this places are not particulary happy because their surroundings, why else would you abandon the core of their lifes, their families as people mention it here?

Why are Americans not only expatriating but renouncing their citizenship in record numbers?

I don't quite understand how some of these guys are making these connections. As if they can look at a statistic and figure out whether or not people are happy. It boggles the mind.

I worked in many different places when I was a consultant. I did it because I got paid more. It wasn't about being happy or not.

We can even look at the Philippines when it comes to overseas workers. I think the money being brought in from overseas workers is huge for their economy. Some of the places those people go to work wouldn't bring up thoughts of happiness. Many times its more of a matter of making the coin to send back to their families. I would bet money many of those overseas workers would rather stay home instead to be with family.

Post: #36

(04-02-2015 12:35 AM)Enigma Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 01:02 AM)Dat ass Wrote:  Anyway, even the ones who criticize their culture or way or living more would be agressive towards you if you criticize them as well, it is a very weird nationalism mixed with inferiority complex. I think that might be a determinant for the results in the poll.

This is truly ironic.

75% of the content on this forum is dedicated to discussing the decline of Western civilization and how to game/live in other parts of the world. There is a reason for that.

Most Western guys here openly dislike -- and even hate -- the government and general population of their home country.

Yet they're in this thread trying to convince us that the West is the happiest place in the world.

They'll talk about how unhappy and unfulfilled women, feminists, betas, etc. are, how bad the economy and unemployment are, how out of control the government is, and how the food and medicine are poison ad nauseum in other threads, yet where is all of that here? It's just, "those other countries have less money and some of them have higher crime rates, so obviously there's no possible way that anyone there is happy".

Not to mention what I've pointed out before, that guys are purposefully twisting the meaning of the term "happiest".

If 5% of Colombians are happy, compared to only 4% of Americans, the former is happier. Hell, 99% of both countries could be completely miserable, yet if the Colombians are just slightly less miserable, they would still be happier.

It is a comparison, not a declaration that all Latin Americans are just walking on rainbows and have absolutely no problems whatsoever.

To continually and deliberately ignore the other side of the comparison (the corrupt and degenerate West that most of you don't even want to live in) is to throw all logic out of the window.

But of course, Latin Americans lied about their happiness for the poll (because of their "inferiority complex"), implying that people in Western countries are infallible and obviously told the whole truth

Ah, that's right, the Americans weren't technically lying, they were just doped up on so many antidepressants and artificially flavored food that they truly believed they were happy.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any Latin American countries on the list, or that the list should be dominated with Western nations. I'm just highly suspicious of that list when a country like Venezuela appears in the top ten. The country is in real trouble right now. They have shortages of basic things such as rice and toilet paper. Likewise with countries with sky-high crime. I'm just not buying that of the 200-odd countries in the world, those beat out all others for happiness. No one would believe it if Greece or the Ukraine were near the top of the list for the same reasons. I also don't believe that of the 200-odd countries in the world, the top ten come from Central and South America, where there are a total of 21 countries. That also seems highly improbable.

As for the supposed hypocrisy regarding the decline of the West vs the rest, some of us are caught between a rock and a hard place and it's far more nuanced than saying "the West has fat SJWs, therefore somewhere else". There are real concerns with living outside the West and things are far from ideal elsewhere either, so you end up picking your poison to some extent. It's always a matter of trade offs. I could accept countries like Costa Rica being on that list, just not Venezuela.

I am in a situation where within the next five to ten years, there is a strong possibility that I will leave Taiwan (though ultimately, this may end up being the best/least worst option). Last year, I spent a fair bit of time researching Chile because it seemed like a place that struck a good balance on a whole lot of measures. Yet Chile has sky-high petty crime compared to either Australia or Taiwan. Bureaucracy and business practices are backward. Chile also has a high Gini coefficient. The education system is completely dysfunctional there. The expat forum is full of people complaining about the same (semi-)third world things that they do in Taiwan. That's not to say that I couldn't necessarily see myself living in Chile, and that I wouldn't believe it if they were in the top 10 on that list. However, it is to say that for some of us, it's possible to see that both the West and a whole lot of other countries have their own sets of serious flaws. Some countries, such as Venezuela or Honduras, I would never consider living in, and probably wouldn't even travel to them.

Post: #37

(04-02-2015 09:34 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  I'm not saying there shouldn't be any Latin American countries on the list, or that the list should be dominated with Western nations. I'm just highly suspicious of that list when a country like Venezuela appears in the top ten. The country is in real trouble right now. They have shortages of basic things such as rice and toilet paper. Likewise with countries with sky-high crime. I'm just not buying that of the 200-odd countries in the world, those beat out all others for happiness. No one would believe it if Greece or the Ukraine were near the top of the list for the same reasons. I also don't believe that of the 200-odd countries in the world, the top ten come from Central and South America, where there are a total of 21 countries. That also seems highly improbable.

As for the supposed hypocrisy regarding the decline of the West vs the rest, some of us are caught between a rock and a hard place and it's far more nuanced than saying "the West has fat SJWs, therefore somewhere else". There are real concerns with living outside the West and things are far from ideal elsewhere either, so you end up picking your poison to some extent. It's always a matter of trade offs. I could accept countries like Costa Rica being on that list, just not Venezuela.

I am in a situation where within the next five to ten years, there is a strong possibility that I will leave Taiwan (though ultimately, this may end up being the best/least worst option). Last year, I spent a fair bit of time researching Chile because it seemed like a place that struck a good balance on a whole lot of measures. Yet Chile has sky-high petty crime compared to either Australia or Taiwan. Bureaucracy and business practices are backward. Chile also has a high Gini coefficient. The education system is completely dysfunctional there. The expat forum is full of people complaining about the same (semi-)third world things that they do in Taiwan. That's not to say that I couldn't necessarily see myself living in Chile, and that I wouldn't believe it if they were in the top 10 on that list. However, it is to say that for some of us, it's possible to see that both the West and a whole lot of other countries have their own sets of serious flaws. Some countries, such as Venezuela or Honduras, I would never consider living in, and probably wouldn't even travel to them.

Yes, all places have their problems. That is my point exactly.

But you are trying to establish your own personal views and opinion on which problems are the worst as fact.

For you, crime may be the biggest factor. And there's nothing wrong with that.

However, that is not true for others. Some value women or weather or family.

You can't just pull up some statistics and say, "oh, well, these people must be lying". You are not them, you do not have their views, and you have not lived their life.

For a Westerner, eating rice for breakfast, lunch, and dinner seems very strange. How can someone be happy eating like that? But for Filipinos, for example, that is a way of life. A meal is not complete for them without rice.

You might look at Venezuelans and say, how can they live in a place with so much crime? How can they handle being poor? But that is all they know. That is their life.

Devout Buddhists have faced poverty, persecution, etc. for centuries, yet they still seem to be pretty happy.

For the record, I'm not even saying I agree with this poll. But it just seems very narrow minded to accuse people of lying about their happiness simply because they do not share the same views you do.

Post: #38

Just happened upon a better account of the most happy 10 countries in the world.

Based on my own experiences and the logical assumptions this one is actually more fitting - everyone claiming that living in Chile is better than living in Norway should actually try to live there on the average wage and see how he likes it.

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3043576/the-1...well-being

Quote:The Top 10:
1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Switzerland
4. Iceland
5. New Zealand
6. Canada
7. Finland
8. Denmark
9. Netherlands
10. Australia

Sweden is getting impacted for other reasons, but I guess that the list is about alright.

Quote:The 2015 Social Progress Index is one of a new breed of country success metrics that take a more nuanced look at national progress. While the U.S. has the top GDP in the world, the Social Progress Index shows the U.S. in 16th place, due to its relative weaknesses in heath and wellness, access to education, and personal safety measurement categories.

The South American countries with their UN funded propaganda campaign of Gross National Happiness of course do badly there.

And this is the most accurate graph on how they got there:



Least amount of poverty coupled with the highest amount of social mobility and other values like health care, nutrition, personal safety, human rights etc.

Quote:Looking at the social progress of the entire planet, Green says the average level is somewhere between Cuba and Kazakhstan. In general, scores are higher for factors like nutrition and basic medical care than for personal safety, human rights, and the environment. The latter categories get less attention as development priorities and they're not areas that necessarily improve as economies grow.

As for the index itself, the top countries are similar to last year's list, albeit with a few minor changes in position. Norway is now top instead of Sweden, and most the top 20 are still northern European countries. The U.S. has dropped to 16th from 6th place, though that doesn't necessarily mean it's a substantially worse country than a year ago (the scores are tight). More important is the long-term trend: the U.S. isn't No. 1 overall because for important things, like health care, it's pretty average for an advanced country.

The list pretty much reflects what I have seen on my travels - also having lived in a few countries I can essentially confirm their high place on that list. Germans - MDs even move to Sweden or Norway because of the higher lifestyle, income and general atmosphere. On average the Swiss enjoy their lives a bit more than Austrians. The same holds true for Canadians vs. US Americans, albeit the top probably does better in the US. But averages have the tendencies to encompass everyone.

Post: #39

Now that i see the topic floating again i'm going to explain myself a little better as it seems that some just took it like i said money "makes you happy by itself and that in my ignorance of their situation i just asume those people are not happy just because they have no money"

(04-02-2015 12:35 AM)Enigma Wrote:  This is truly ironic.

75% of the content on this forum is dedicated to discussing the decline of Western civilization and how to game/live in other parts of the world. There is a reason for that.

Most Western guys here openly dislike -- and even hate -- the government and general population of their home country.

They'll talk about how unhappy and unfulfilled women, feminists, betas, etc. are, how bad the economy and unemployment are, how out of control the government is, and how the food and medicine are poison ad nauseum in other threads, yet where is all of that here? It's just, "those other countries have less money and some of them have higher crime rates, so obviously there's no possible way that anyone there is happy".

I'm not western, im hispanic, and have spent a lot of time in different hispanic countries, some of my family members are from different origins too.

I understand that you can complain and react when you feel disappointed about women, and about politics, it's actually a display of a great culture. By contrast, i have met stupid people living in really bad conditions, being screwd by their authorities, enduring all kind of shit and complaining, but what do they say about taking action?... "well, the important thing is that we have joy and great beer" yeah... if that is the happines in the poll i rather to be "that bitter guy".

BUT. you sure have it better than people in most Latin America. I mean. Have you got a minimal wage $300 dollars month when just a room costs probably $200?. Have you tried to go to college when it costs yearly the double of your full time wage?, knowing that when you graduate, you probably are going to start at $500?.

Some guys touched an interesting pont. It is true that latinos are not so concerned about glory and money over enjoying family. But how can you enjoy if you can't see them? i mean most people that i have met who where able to buy a house going from scratch, are in the minery or oil industry. And those guys have to be away from their families for months. Is that or getting into finance and work more than 60 hours a week, or being born wealthy, but that's like 10% with luck.

Of course, you can always live with a not so well paid or unconfortable position paying the rent, worried about the next month and what will happen to your family if you suddenly can't work anymore. Some people here say about how good is for girls, but i'm pretty sure the average guy after 23 isn't looking to see how many bitches he can fuck. He will probably get in long relationships and get worried about money. So if one of some of this guys have the oportunity to move to a sexless bubble but wealthy dysthopia as some people describe Toronto or australia, you can be sure a lot will jump in a minute. That's the reason we are asked for a visa even for tourism lol.

Of course, i'm not telling everything is perfect in western countries. But the facts are that for sure, more people are moving there that the other way. The economical factor is bigger than people who have it for granted seems to realize, it gives you stability and freedom to spend time with your loved beings.

Quote:But of course, Latin Americans lied about their happiness for the poll (because of their "inferiority complex"), implying that people in Western countries are infallible and obviously told the whole truth

I don't know if people in those other countries are lying. But you just need to read any spanish journal to see how pissed off are people against everything, as you can see reading a lot written in english too. The diference is even when they complain all the time. For examples a foreigner if you tell a mexican that his country is a shithole or signal them their problems. He would do anything to prove you wrong.
http://elcomercio.pe/mundo/latinoamerica...ia-1758902
This is something that i found about in Peru. A peruvian journalist made a documentary spoken about the massive prostitution in Medellin, which is well known in Colombia as the girls from that region are usually seen as slutty. But they went apeshit when a foreigner made a documentary about it for "making them look bad".

Quote:Why are Americans not only expatriating but renouncing their citizenship in record numbers?

mm.. let me see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...ation_rate

18 Norway 7.96
23 Australia 5.74 2014 est.
24 Canada 5.66 2014 est.
25 Sweden 5.46 2014 est.
26 Switzerland 5.43
40 United States 2.45

140 Colombia -0.65 est
153 Honduras -1.18
166 Guatemala -2.00 2014 est
179 Nicaragua -3.13 2014 est
208 El Salvador -8.44 2014 est

185 Estonia -3.37
177 Bulgaria -2.89

Well who would say. Happier latin countries are in the category that export more immigrants, just by side with the screwed african countries and the depressed eastern europeans.

Quote:You might look at Venezuelans and say, how can they live in a place with so much crime? How can they handle being poor? But that is all they know. That is their life.

Venezuela actually used to be one of the most comfortable countries in South america. Lots of spanish people where moving there during the oil boom.

Post: #40

(04-11-2015 09:15 AM)Dat ass Wrote:  Venezuela actually used to be one of the most comfortable countries in South america. Lots of spanish people where moving there during the oil boom.

My dad went there in the 50s or 60s and said that it was wildly expensive there, but also safe. He said that in those years, Argentina was much more dangerous.

Post: #41

(04-11-2015 09:15 AM)Dat ass Wrote:  I'm not western, im hispanic, and have spent a lot of time in different hispanic countries, some of my family members are from different origins too.

You do not have to be from a Western country to adopt Western values. It is a culture, not a nationality.

Quote:I understand that you can complain and react when you feel disappointed about women, and about politics, it's actually a display of a great culture. By contrast, i have met stupid people living in really bad conditions, being screwd by their authorities, enduring all kind of shit and complaining, but what do they say about taking action?... "well, the important thing is that we have joy and great beer" yeah... if that is the happines in the poll i rather to be "that bitter guy".

BUT. you sure have it better than people in most Latin America. I mean. Have you got a minimal wage $300 dollars month when just a room costs probably $200?. Have you tried to go to college when it costs yearly the double of your full time wage?, knowing that when you graduate, you probably are going to start at $500?.

Some guys touched an interesting pont. It is true that latinos are not so concerned about glory and money over enjoying family. But how can you enjoy if you can't see them? i mean most people that i have met who where able to buy a house going from scratch, are in the minery or oil industry. And those guys have to be away from their families for months. Is that or getting into finance and work more than 60 hours a week, or being born wealthy, but that's like 10% with luck.

Of course, you can always live with a not so well paid or unconfortable position paying the rent, worried about the next month and what will happen to your family if you suddenly can't work anymore. Some people here say about how good is for girls, but i'm pretty sure the average guy after 23 isn't looking to see how many bitches he can fuck. He will probably get in long relationships and get worried about money. So if one of some of this guys have the oportunity to move to a sexless bubble but wealthy dysthopia as some people describe Toronto or australia, you can be sure a lot will jump in a minute. That's the reason we are asked for a visa even for tourism lol.

1. Having it "better" than someone does not mean you are necessarily happier than them. This has been proven time and time again. Money, wealth, success, etc. do not exist in a vacuum.

2. Many of the problems you just mentioned apply to the Western world as well. If you haven't noticed, out-of-state tuition in the US is $30,000+ and there is a massive student loan debt bubble. Meanwhile, these kids with tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt can't even land an entry-level job.

A large majority of the American population lives paycheck to paycheck and has little to no savings. And the majority of Americans also complain without taking action.

As with many topics that come up on this board, it's quite apparent that a lot of people here have no connection whatsoever to the American lower class.

Sure, because of government benefits, most poor Americans have it better than poor people in many other countries. But do you think they're thinking, "Hey, at least we're not starving in Africa"? No, they think, "Damn, I'm poor as shit... this fucking sucks".

3. The women issue is not about getting laid. It's about being able to have a loyal wife, a family, a support system, someone to come home to.

Many guys here get plenty of pussy in the US/UK, etc. and still much prefer foreign women.

Quote:Of course, i'm not telling everything is perfect in western countries. But the facts are that for sure, more people are moving there that the other way. The economical factor is bigger than people who have it for granted seems to realize, it gives you stability and freedom to spend time with your loved beings.

As has already been pointed out, just because you move somewhere to make more money doesn't mean you're happier there. That's why the location independent lifestyle is becoming so big, including among the members of this forum.

Also, that same ability to go location independent is the same reason that people in poorer countries, India and the Philippines in particular, are having more opportunities. You don't have to live in the US to freelance, build websites, write ebooks, or create apps.

Look at Flappy Birds. That guy lives in Vietnam and created an internet sensation of a mobile game that made him hundreds of millions overnight.

In fact, the people in those countries who have the determination to work online actually have BETTER opportunities in some ways because the cost of living there is so low. Compare that to the US where you would have to put in a lot of work and be fairly successful/lucky just to create enough of an online income to cover your basic necceseties.

A lot of Filipinos could jump online tomorrow and make a decent wage compared to the other jobs available. Meanwhile there are some pretty smart guys who spend years just trying to find a way to make decent money online.

Quote:I don't know if people in those other countries are lying. But you just need to read any spanish journal to see how pissed off are people against everything, as you can see reading a lot written in english too. The diference is even when they complain all the time. For examples a foreigner if you tell a mexican that his country is a shithole or signal them their problems. He would do anything to prove you wrong.
http://elcomercio.pe/mundo/latinoamerica...ia-1758902
This is something that i found about in Peru. A peruvian journalist made a documentary spoken about the massive prostitution in Medellin, which is well known in Colombia as the girls from that region are usually seen as slutty. But they went apeshit when a foreigner made a documentary about it for "making them look bad".

This exact same thing happens in America, which is why I said your comment was ironic.

Quote:mm.. let me see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...ation_rate

18 Norway 7.96
23 Australia 5.74 2014 est.
24 Canada 5.66 2014 est.
25 Sweden 5.46 2014 est.
26 Switzerland 5.43
40 United States 2.45

140 Colombia -0.65 est
153 Honduras -1.18
166 Guatemala -2.00 2014 est
179 Nicaragua -3.13 2014 est
208 El Salvador -8.44 2014 est

185 Estonia -3.37
177 Bulgaria -2.89

Well who would say. Happier latin countries are in the category that export more immigrants, just by side with the screwed african countries and the depressed eastern europeans.

I'm really wondering what the relevance of this is.

First of all, there is a difference between migrating to another country, and migrating to another country AND renouncing your citizenship in your home country.

Also, the top of that list is filled with Middle Eastern and African countries, proving that it doesn't really mean much. Again, it's just random statistics examined in a vacuum.

Quote:Venezuela actually used to be one of the most comfortable countries in South america. Lots of spanish people where moving there during the oil boom.

Americans were much more comfortable just a decade or two ago.

Also, speaking of crime, New York was infamous for it not long ago, yet still attracted people from all over the country and world.

Like I've mentioned multiple times before, this discussion doesn't work if you're just listing everything that's wrong with other countries and paying no attention to the problems in America, Europe, etc.

Post: #42

Is there any 'happiness poll' that differentiates between answers from men and women?

Post: #43

(04-11-2015 10:33 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  Is there any 'happiness poll' that differentiates between answers from men and women?

Good point.

I have a feeling the top 10 countries were men are happiest are quite different from the ones in which women are happiest. Although there would likely be some overlap in traditional middle eastern countries with strong gender roles.