Post: #1

I read up on the literature here, but it mostly deal with shit test and didn't really answer my question.

Most posters here seem to say that the girls only tell them she has a BF AFTER the bang, but what if she mentions it BEFORE the bang in a casual, non-shit test way?

I've had this happened way too many times the past few weeks, it's ridiculous.

Typical: met and approached a cute girl. She loves talking to you. Decent IOIs, even pass some compliance test. Then 5-10 min inside the convo she casually mentions her boyfriend (not as a shit test).

Example:

danced with this girl, led her around the crowd holding hand, she complies when I wanted to head out for some air. Then I tried to venue change:

Me: So ya know this bar xyz?
Her: yes! I works there as a server. Come Sunday I'll serve you my favorite drink
Me: Let's go now, I'm so thirsty after all this heat.
Her: my boyfriend works there tonight, I'm not sure.
Me: oh you guys work there together (stupid move on my part, shoulda ignore)
Her: no we've been together since college




another girl, pleasant conversation, good IOI, we were scheduling a hangout in person

Me: so this Sunday let's go dancing at xyz
Her: yeah would love to! I'll let you know
Me: why aren't you available Mondays? I know the best bars on that day
Her: yeah my boyfriend comes to see me every Monday so blala

In both cases I mentally eject.

In these cases is it worth it to keep gaming the girls or it's a waste of time? We all know how women are expert at wasting men's time.

My French bros here love to say "just because there's a guardian at the goal doesn't mean you can't score", but I really hate getting stringed along and wasting time.

Or should I at least attempt some fast screening by escalating physically and gauge her response? If she allows herself to be gamed and taken home she's willing to cheat.

Post: #2

Standard advice is "game on"

Options

I think different guys have different advice as to whether to turn the boyfriend into a conversational piece.

1) typical boyfriend destroyer

"describe your dude"
"he's blah blah blah"
"Oh word, that dude slays pussy. Those chicks are all over him. There's this one brunette that's always flashing him. I think he hooks her up sometime"

You could make it more subtle, more insidious. That depends on your imagination.

2) Ignore - Other guys pretend like she didn't say anything.

3) Feed back the bullshit

Some guys will get her to describe the boyfriend and what she doesn't like about him, and what she likes about him. Then on the low, they incorporate those things into their ongoing rap with the chick

There's tons of ways to handle it.

I think the only bad ones I can think of

- start clowning the dude, which makes her defend him

- the positive k - "what's your man got to do with me"





WIA

Post: #3

Do not give up on her just because she has a bf... Just take enough precautions to keep both of you safe - be discreet...

Assuming the IOI is beyond the level of casual friendship interest, of course... Physical escalation will be a good way to judge the level of interest, and even that will require a certain amount of discretion. If her alarm bells ring, she can't respond. So, make sure she is in a place where she is either completely anonymous, or, if possible, there is no one who will see you..

Post: #4

Quote:ust take enough precautions to keep both of you safe - be discreet...

Yeah it's very clear from our RVF archive that standard procedure with a confirmed taken chick is to

1) isolate (no friends, no acquaitances) so she doesn't have to fear for her reputation
2) escalate. If she doesn't let you, next

my concern when asking this question is that, even to isolate her (usually get her out on a date) it still takes time just like with every other girl, sometimes more. And then there's a big fucking chance of the date leading nowhere because she just wants to string you along.

Or some girl let you escalate but then string you along and you never ever get the bang, some makeouts and a shit ton of drama at most.

WIA: I would rather go with ignore. My game is not strong enough to play boyfriend destroyer. That requires a lot of machiavelianism and practiced grace.

Should I make my intentions known early on with these chicks? This is where opinions seem to be divided the most.

A lot say making intentions known will just meet a shit ton of resistance since you are tripping her slut defense and morality radar.

A lot say making intentions known soon help you screen for girls who are down to cheat so as not to waste time, which is the point of my OP.

Post: #5

I had a buddy... good buddy..back home who had this to say about boyfriends "Boyfriends are like speed bumps, they may slow you down, but they can't stop you"

All the while he was putting in massive effort to score this chick who had a boyfriend and was as some would say "Out of his league" My buddy was a great guy but he was fat, and not gifted in the looks department. I used to cringe at some of the things he would tell this girl, it all seemed so beta to me. Fast forward about 3 years and they are engaged to get married and truly one of the happier couples I know....

Post: #6

(03-18-2015 03:30 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  A lot say making intentions known will just meet a shit ton of resistance since you are tripping her slut defense and morality radar.

A lot say making intentions known soon help you screen for girls who are down to cheat so as not to waste time, which is the point of my OP.

I would put myself in the second lot.

The simple question is: How can you get the bang without letting your intentions known at some place in the process?

The slut defence, if it is to come up, can come up at any phase, so letting your intentions known will save you from a lot of fruitless effort...

Post: #7

(03-18-2015 03:41 PM)Edgemell Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 03:30 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  A lot say making intentions known will just meet a shit ton of resistance since you are tripping her slut defense and morality radar.

A lot say making intentions known soon help you screen for girls who are down to cheat so as not to waste time, which is the point of my OP.

I would put myself in the second lot.

The simple question is: How can you get the bang without letting your intentions known at some place in the process?

The slut defence, if it is to come up, can come up at any phase, so letting your intentions known will save you from a lot of fruitless effort...

Making your intentions known is different than actually voicing your intentions.

Dalaran should run game on the chick, and let his actions speak for him.

If he has to say, 'Yes I'm hitting on you, because i'm trying to fuck you", she will have no recourse but to say no.

But if she responds to his physical advances, then she can lie to herself and say, "It just happened"

WIA

Post: #8

We are in 100% agreement...

'You see, I am actually trying to fuck you' is not something you would say to anyone, unless you want to be put down badly... You have to leave a little room for her intelligence to do some work

Actions, implications, body language, maybe slight hints...

Post: #9

oh it totally depends on how she reacts to you. If she says, "I see what you are up to, you are totally wasting your time because I am dating a guy and we couldn't be happier" or something to that effect, your time would be better spent gaming other women.

However, if she is liking the game you are spitting, and then suddenly blurts out 'oh! I have a boyfriend!' as if to remind herself she shouldn't be engaging in having other guys trying to fuck her, you can simply ask "is it going as well as you would like'? There is another thread on here about this, you can basically start a stopwatch in your head, and watch the wheels spin in her head. The longer it takes her to answer, the easier time you will have trying to fuck her. If she answers quickly saying its going great, then you can wish her well and move on. otherwise, you can continue spitting game at her. Most hot women have a guy in their life of some sort, however not all of them will be completely happy with how that is going and are looking for a way out. If you are going to stop gaming hot women that already have boyfriends, you are really limiting yourself.

Post: #10

Look at actions and don't put too much weight on their words.

That being said if the 'boyfriend' comes up very early in the conversation it is usually a sign of an approach that she isn't feeling.
Sometimes you can plow through it but it is not a great sign.

Past the five minute mark it can be a whole host of things (shit test/plausible deny/girl game), just acknowledge and then ignore if the vibe is still good. What is her body language telling you? Girls don't even know themselves what they will do so vibe/body language is more accurate to gunge.

Best way to get feedback as to how an approach is going is to touch her and often. If she is enjoying physical contact then it is.
Progress: Social touch (handshake) > Friendly touch (high five) - Flirt touch (arm around waist) - Sex touch (grab ass)

Post: #11

My ex girlfriend constantly talked about her exes. I told her to shut the fuck up about it a couple times but it just kept being brought up. One of the many red flags that were presented to me. She is an ex for a reason.

Post: #12

(03-18-2015 03:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  - the positive k - "what's your man got to do with me"


WIA

Legendary game song that tells it like it is. Gotta love Positive K's response of to "I got a man." "How long have you had that problem?" LMAO!!! Now that's a nice troll/neg right there. The Old School always has answers.

Post: #13

(03-18-2015 05:25 PM)eradicator Wrote:  There is another thread on here about this, you can basically start a stopwatch in your head, and watch the wheels spin in her head. The longer it takes her to answer, the easier time you will have trying to fuck her. If she answers quickly saying its going great, then you can wish her well and move on.

/thread-10161.html

I think you are talking about this.

Quote:otherwise, you can continue spitting game at her. Most hot women have a guy in their life of some sort, however not all of them will be completely happy with how that is going and are looking for a way out. If you are going to stop gaming hot women that already have boyfriends, you are really limiting yourself.

I get this part and the whole philosophy behind it.

The thing is, like I said, I don't like wasting time. Guys, women love a guy with game and they love us spitting game at them, for their benefit at our detriment. She will let you entertain her all day but in the end will not let you bang her. Unless you are just planting the seed for when she needs a rebound guy.

The fact that a girl is enjoying your company doesn't necessarily mean you are getting laid. She just love your rap. This is doubly true with taken girls.

Quote:Best way to get feedback as to how an approach is going is to touch her and often. If she is enjoying physical contact then it is.

Yeah, so far physical escalation is the best way to tell. Isolate and escalate.

I usually got so hang up at spitting game I forget to read the girls, will need to pay attention to their body language from now on.

Post: #14

(03-18-2015 05:25 PM)eradicator Wrote:  oh it totally depends on how she reacts to you. If she says, "I see what you are up to, you are totally wasting your time because I am dating a guy and we couldn't be happier" or something to that effect, your time would be better spent gaming other women.

However, if she is liking the game you are spitting, and then suddenly blurts out 'oh! I have a boyfriend!' as if to remind herself she shouldn't be engaging in having other guys trying to fuck her, you can simply ask "is it going as well as you would like'? There is another thread on here about this, you can basically start a stopwatch in your head, and watch the wheels spin in her head. The longer it takes her to answer, the easier time you will have trying to fuck her. If she answers quickly saying its going great, then you can wish her well and move on. otherwise, you can continue spitting game at her. Most hot women have a guy in their life of some sort, however not all of them will be completely happy with how that is going and are looking for a way out. If you are going to stop gaming hot women that already have boyfriends, you are really limiting yourself.

Excellent.

The one ive always heard

"Do you love him"

And then you say, "you hesitated"

Then game on.

WIA

Post: #15

If this is anywhere in the western world don't take the word "boyfriend" too seriously especially if she works at a bar. Proceed as normal.

Post: #16

(03-18-2015 05:13 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 03:41 PM)Edgemell Wrote:  

(03-18-2015 03:30 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  A lot say making intentions known will just meet a shit ton of resistance since you are tripping her slut defense and morality radar.

A lot say making intentions known soon help you screen for girls who are down to cheat so as not to waste time, which is the point of my OP.

I would put myself in the second lot.

The simple question is: How can you get the bang without letting your intentions known at some place in the process?

The slut defence, if it is to come up, can come up at any phase, so letting your intentions known will save you from a lot of fruitless effort...

Making your intentions known is different than actually voicing your intentions.

Dalaran should run game on the chick, and let his actions speak for him.

If he has to say, 'Yes I'm hitting on you, because i'm trying to fuck you", she will have no recourse but to say no.

But if she responds to his physical advances, then she can lie to herself and say, "It just happened"

WIA

^ This one. If you can aid in the hamster spinning in your direction it is always helpful. Remember, there are many women who would not even flinch to text their boyfriend with one hand while wiping your cum off of them with another as long as their hamster spins.

I like the ignore/distract option. Similar to what Atlantic said, if her other vibes are still strong you can redirect if she says she has a boyfriend. Upon "I have a boyfriend" I change bar location, get a drink, go outside for a cigarette (with her), ask her if she knows palm reading. If anything its a sure sign that you need to isolate her from her friends to protect her social reputation.

Alternatively if you, say touch a girl and she yanks her hand back and almost yells "I have a boyfriend" abandon ship. You are about to get beat up, especially if she was being an obvious slut/cock grinder beforehand...she's just playing some sadistic attention whoring/social dominance/drama starting game for her entertainment and pretty much turning on the bat signal for white knights.

Post: #17

Me & Cobra where are a popular watering hole last night chatting up this sexy brunette working behind the bar

I flat out asked her the over/under on drunk guys who hit on here during an avg shift, I was intentionally trolling her

After admitting that she has dated customers in the past ('I won't do that again') She mentions even though she has a BF, she would still hang out with a random guy if he came at her with some "sober" game. Contradictory? yes...Surprising? Not one iota

Being coherent helped me catch that. I'm always looking for cracks in a chick's armor.

Post: #18

Yeah, more than once in my long career have I just penetrated a chick and she a) either starts crying and says "I'm engaged", "I have a boyfriend" or b) says "I can't believe I'm doing this".

hahah

Game on

Post: #19

Good advice by WIA. A lot of variance depending on your inner game.

I personally would ignore or go head on (doesn't make a difference). With a hot babe, I always assume he's probably a cool dude, but a guy who would be pissed she's talking to me. This may not be reality, it's just my mindset, idk why.

That mindset layers in an "I know I'm more unshakable than him" frame.

- If we talk about an area of life he has one up on me and she's bragging about, no worries, I respect that (no other option here). "Oh wow, he owns that place, cool, and how does he like it?" (note, don't skip the convo, ask one more question then bounce the subject...women are really smart about this). You won't win the battle if you try to defeat this or skip subject too soon.

- If we talk about an area she's not bragging about or not happy with and I have an up on him, I marginalize her feelings and say 'I'm sure he's fine' or 'I'm sure he'll find a job' or whatever. She's opening up about her social status (via his), so pander to that.

Never, ever, ever, be direct. Never directly hate on another man. Never praise another man. Always, always, always pander with indifference. Boyfriend or not.

Post: #20

(03-18-2015 02:53 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I read up on the literature here, but it mostly deal with shit test and didn't really answer my question.

Most posters here seem to say that the girls only tell them she has a BF AFTER the bang, but what if she mentions it BEFORE the bang in a casual, non-shit test way?

I've had this happened way too many times the past few weeks, it's ridiculous.

Typical: met and approached a cute girl. She loves talking to you. Decent IOIs, even pass some compliance test. Then 5-10 min inside the convo she casually mentions her boyfriend (not as a shit test).

Example:

danced with this girl, led her around the crowd holding hand, she complies when I wanted to head out for some air. Then I tried to venue change:

Me: So ya know this bar xyz?
Her: yes! I works there as a server. Come Sunday I'll serve you my favorite drink
Me: Let's go now, I'm so thirsty after all this heat.
Her: my boyfriend works there tonight, I'm not sure.
Me: oh you guys work there together (stupid move on my part, shoulda ignore)
Her: no we've been together since college




another girl, pleasant conversation, good IOI, we were scheduling a hangout in person

Me: so this Sunday let's go dancing at xyz
Her: yeah would love to! I'll let you know
Me: why aren't you available Mondays? I know the best bars on that day
Her: yeah my boyfriend comes to see me every Monday so blala

In both cases I mentally eject.

In these cases is it worth it to keep gaming the girls or it's a waste of time? We all know how women are expert at wasting men's time.

My French bros here love to say "just because there's a guardian at the goal doesn't mean you can't score", but I really hate getting stringed along and wasting time.

Or should I at least attempt some fast screening by escalating physically and gauge her response? If she allows herself to be gamed and taken home she's willing to cheat.

In both instances, they sound like they are just monkeybranching. EVERY girl out there in the west nowadays has a boyfriend, depending upon their mental state. Could be a FB, could be someone serious, could be an ex they still have feelings for, it could even be their imaginary friend. I'd just ignore it if they're still giving you IOIs and see where it goes. Worst case you put 'em in the maybe drawer, ignore them both and I bet one of them contacts you again.

Post: #21

Keep in mind if she is an 8+ (Hot) and has a BF but he has not put a ring on it - he is also likely an 8+ hot and gaming (swatting away) dozens of 50 Shades of Gray generation ladies himself. She knows this about him and is completely insecure about their relationship.

No ring means she is open so game as normal and keep her in rotation - your choice if you want to make her a regular.

Hot men and women always get hit on many times a day and drive each other crazy with their insecurity drama - likely he is also a player with a strong rotation and in their young 20s women just test how much sexual power they have - as they see the wall flying at them in the late 20s early 30s then their nesting urge for security alarm bells go off and they will often put you and or their BF on the 90 day clock and the first one in their mind who man's up with a ring gets to be the DNA daddy.

I have been put on the old Cosmo 90 day clock several times in my life - tends to happen at the 2 year mark in a steady relationship - according to Cosmo if you do not put a ring on it by then she is just another one of your pump and dumps. Thus the 90 day clock. Of course those last 90 days she is trying to seal the deal so the sex frequency can be intense.

You will still have to game them (8+ Hotties) for life because hot MILFs are hit on every day.

I have always explained that I was raised in a Sicilian home by a tough Sicilian American Korean War Veteran and if she marries me its with the Sicilian rules - and if she ever cheats the only way out is a Sicilian divorce. Use your imagination - gets the disloyal sluts sober quick. Easy way to sort the disloyal sluts from the mostly loyal ride and die women

Tough to keep a game face on all the time in the west but you play the cards you are dealt and with an 8+ it is what it is.

Takeaway point is if she is 8+ Hot there will almost always be one or more BFs - no ring then they are players gaming many other 8+ HBs themselves so you as a budding Alpha decide what YOU want - short rotation, long rotation, relationship, marriage and then game accordingly... In the service I remember a Chief player say there are only two types of tang - tang you get and tang you don't get. So ignore the words (BF bla bla bla) and take what ever action pleases you.

I personally tend to stop at a wedding band - I only recall banging one 8+ going through a divorce - Aerobics instructor with a B.S. degree in it - then after I found out he was a Nigerian and dumping her and his two kids with her hard after she supported him through his PhD - her princess brain went into next sucker provider panic mode and she became an instant pump and dump. She wound up going to Florida and snagged some BAC beta provider and emailed me to let me know she was off the market... I had long since moved on.

Regarding a married woman its cultural and I know what I would do to my wife and anyone I caught her with - they would have a very bad day and I would soon be sipping tropical drinks in South America or Asia. So why put yourself in a life and death situation unnecessarily with married broads. Another reason I avoid single mothers - most say with a straight face they are not looking for a replacement daddy - they are lying.

Always keep a secret cash stash and a bug out bag handy so if you have to change venues you can do so comfortably.

Post: #22

>> "is it going as well as you would like'?

Ummm, that is pretty solid, IMHO. I'm going to use that... with some slow, direct eye contact and very little personal space.

I'm in a stage of my game (and my "red pill wakeup") that I am AMAZED at how many girls are in relationships, but are still "fucking around." At this point, I assume... almost all of them.

As a daygamer... if I hear it right away, I let her go.

If she says it late (or on the day2)... it's just like any "single" girl.

And if she uses it as LMR... I have been doing what I call my "Puerto Rican" thing:
-- "Uh huh... I hear that"
-- And I start licking my lips and looking a little tortured (tense eyebrows)
-- And I look her up and down
-- And close the distance
-- And wag my finger at her, from head to toe...
-- "It's just that..."
-- And I'm shaking my head... all tortured, getting closer
-- Until we're making out

This is non-verbal, full on escalation, no avoidance... and she'll have to cave, or fully resist. No more wasting time.

I'm not recommending getting into "involved" women, but I think there are a lot of opportunities there, and a lot to learn about women by checking those types of girls out. Dating married women is a great education in why you should never get married. Let her spell out why she's with you, and you will start to know why you're not "married in the suburbs" as well.

I think a lot of men/women need a little "pressure release" on the side... and I don't want to be a girls BF right now, so I'd actually prefer she has "dinner/movie" covered, and I'm drinks and sex.

YMMV.

Post: #23

There's some great advice in this thread, but I think a couple things were missed (not by everyone, but mostly glossed over).

(03-19-2015 08:42 AM)HectorLavoe Wrote:  If this is anywhere in the western world don't take the word "boyfriend" too seriously especially if she works at a bar. Proceed as normal.

YES! She works in a bar. She's much more likely to be open to fucking around, especially if her boyfriend works in the same bar.

A lot of guys also missed that Dalaran1991 is in France. It's seen as WAY more normal/accepted for people in relationships to fuck around on the side as long as it's discreet. What she said here is basically, "I have a boyfriend, let's continue but obviously we need to be discreet:"

(03-18-2015 02:53 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I read up on the literature here, but it mostly deal with shit test and didn't really answer my question.

Most posters here seem to say that the girls only tell them she has a BF AFTER the bang, but what if she mentions it BEFORE the bang in a casual, non-shit test way?

I've had this happened way too many times the past few weeks, it's ridiculous.

Typical: met and approached a cute girl. She loves talking to you. Decent IOIs, even pass some compliance test. Then 5-10 min inside the convo she casually mentions her boyfriend (not as a shit test).

Example:

danced with this girl, led her around the crowd holding hand, she complies when I wanted to head out for some air. Then I tried to venue change:

Me: So ya know this bar xyz?
Her: yes! I works there as a server. Come Sunday I'll serve you my favorite drink
Me: Let's go now, I'm so thirsty after all this heat.
Her: my boyfriend works there tonight, I'm not sure.

You needed to just up the physicality more or isolate her at home or elsewhere.

(03-18-2015 03:39 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  I had a buddy... good buddy..back home who had this to say about boyfriends "Boyfriends are like speed bumps, they may slow you down, but they can't stop you"

All the while he was putting in massive effort to score this chick who had a boyfriend and was as some would say "Out of his league" My buddy was a great guy but he was fat, and not gifted in the looks department. I used to cringe at some of the things he would tell this girl, it all seemed so beta to me. Fast forward about 3 years and they are engaged to get married and truly one of the happier couples I know....

Good advice from your buddy, shitty execution from him. It took him three years to get engaged and they are really happy. Great, I hope they are really happy, but this guy is taking for his wife sloppy seconds/thirds/fourths, who knows. Further, they aren't even TO the honeymoon. You can't say this guy is successful with his horrible approach. You really can't. Time will tell. Likely 2-3 years in he'll be miserable or she'll have left him.

(03-19-2015 02:53 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  I have always explained that I was raised in a Sicilian home by a tough Sicilian American Korean War Veteran and if she marries me its with the Sicilian rules - and if she ever cheats the only way out is a Sicilian divorce. Use your imagination - gets the disloyal sluts sober quick. Easy way to sort the disloyal sluts from the mostly loyal ride and die women

AND

Always keep a secret cash stash and a bug out bag handy so if you have to change venues you can do so comfortably.

Two great insights by Deepdiver. Good to see him posting!

I do have a secret cash stash but I don't have a bug out bag. That's something I'll have to write down a packing list for and get sorted. Never know when you might need to hit the road running. It won't be hard, I usually have a couple bags with toiletries and other essentials (cell phone battery/charger) already packed for traveling because I hate having to unpack/pack over and over. Easier to leave a bag half packed and then put specific stuff in it for each trip so I've been doing that for years.

Post: #24

I just had a date with an online girl who, after making out in a bar with me, casually mentioned that she's married. I said oh okay that's cool, kinda brushed it aside since I dont know her particular situation nor care to listen about it. Ended te date with no bang. On second thought I'm not too thrilled about the thought of some enraged dude coming after me for banging his wife.

Post: #25

The only time this ends well for me is when the girl mentions the boyfriend after I have already gone for a successful make out and she gets guiltier as she knows she's about to bang.

Way up front they still offer their number, with the premises we can only hang out that's it. The girls that have done that so far haven't been good looking enough to risk a cock tease date.

The earlier they tell you the worse it is, that simple.

If she never even tells you she has BF - that's the best.