Post: #1

I'm tossing around the idea of going back to school for a masters, and one thing I was thinking about was going to a foreign country (US, UK, Australia) as opposed to here in Canada. Part of it being just to live somewhere different, better weather (at least US/Oz) and just a bit of a novelty factor.

On the other hand, the fees they charge for international students are insane. Australia for masters programs is like $35k/yr. Compared to about $10k in Canada. US and UK somewhere in the middle. Then not to mention visas, US wants SAT/GRE scores, and in addition to costs, generally a higher pain in the ass factor.

I can understand if you're from a third world country to add some (if only perceived) legitimacy to your degree, but has anyone ever gone abroad when they had access to a pretty decent lower priced local school?

I can also see the point if you're going to a Harvard or Oxford, but even then, I forget what book I first read it in, but found a copy of the article:

http://time.com/54342/it-doesnt-matter-w...o-college/

Basically says that those admitted to top tier schools but who chose to go elsewhere, had same earnings after 20 years as those who were accepted and went.

So has anyone ever gone abroad for school when you didn't have to? Was it worth it? Is there really a 50k advantage to studying at University of New South Wales vs University of Alberta?

Post: #2

(03-11-2015 11:24 AM)Seadog Wrote:  I'm tossing around the idea of going back to school for a masters, and one thing I was thinking about was going to a foreign country (US, UK, Australia) as opposed to here in Canada. Part of it being just to live somewhere different, better weather (at least US/Oz) and just a bit of a novelty factor.

On the other hand, the fees they charge for international students are insane. Australia for masters programs is like $35k/yr. Compared to about $10k in Canada. US and UK somewhere in the middle. Then not to mention visas, US wants SAT/GRE scores, and in addition to costs, generally a higher pain in the ass factor.

I can understand if you're from a third world country to add some (if only perceived) legitimacy to your degree, but has anyone ever gone abroad when they had access to a pretty decent lower priced local school?

I can also see the point if you're going to a Harvard or Oxford, but even then, I forget what book I first read it in, but found a copy of the article:

http://time.com/54342/it-doesnt-matter-w...o-college/

Basically says that those admitted to top tier schools but who chose to go elsewhere, had same earnings after 20 years as those who were accepted and went.

So has anyone ever gone abroad for school when you didn't have to? Was it worth it? Is there really a 50k advantage to studying at University of New South Wales vs University of Alberta?

What matters now more than ever is what you studied instead of where.

The top ivy league colleges do open doors in top positions at some corporations, but only if you study something useful - Medieval literature from Harvard won't cut it anymore.

Only the top ivy league colleges are probably worth it now:

YALE (law or business)
HARVARD
PRINCETON
MIT - obviously only STEM
STANFORD
CALTECH - only STEM
John Hopkins - for medicine

And that only if you study STEM, law or business/economics. If a study were done taking into account only those courses then there would be quite a difference for sure.

In Europe it's even less of a pedigree choice except for Oxford or Cambridge in the UK. You have some local universities in France or Switzerland which are giving you some added access to good initial positions (6-figure-job almost off the bat), but after a few years those guys are outclassed by more industrious people who studied at some local university.

So unless you want to join the high French administrative class or some secretive bank in London, then there are very little reasons to select an expensive top-tier school in Europe.

My experience is based on the people I met in corporations - some VPs barely passed their dip-shit colleges. Only very public positions in politics or deeply enmeshed in the US plutocratic structure made some top-level education more beneficial.

Unless you do a Harvard MBA for 6-figures I don't see a reason to spend even a dollar more than the cheapest option you have out there. A Masters from college on ranking no. 12 is as valuable as on no. 1012. http://www.topuniversities.com/universit...se+search=

Post: #3

The most prestigious schools are in the US. Australia, forget about it. Unless you're Australian, having that on your resume just shows you couldn't hack it somewhere good (no offense to Aussies, but that's how it is). Euro prestigious schools are useful if you intend to move and work there. Otherwise, no.

Certain schools are known to have prestigious graduate and post-graduate departments (Max Planck in Germany, ETH in Switzerland, for example), but this is PhD and post-doctoral level stuff.

What do you actually want to do?

Post: #4

I'm leaning towards master's of petroleum engineering. My undergraduate wasn't in petroleum, but I have 7 years of experience in the industry. I just got laid off a few weeks ago, the oil market is shit now, and I was thinking that I could travel for a year or so, then do a Master's. Between my experience and M.Eng in Petroleum along with the hope that things have recovered by 2017 I think I'd be pretty well set.

The reason I was thinking Australia was because if I could get a nice gig there, it's an easy hopping off point to SE Asia. Live there 28 on/off, back to Oz for work. A Masters from there would help me find work there I think. But is that really worth 50k? Even then. I've had friends who went there and loved it, but got decimated by cost of living and ended up returning to Canada. (Not STEM, but still).

Post: #5

(03-11-2015 12:19 PM)Seadog Wrote:  I'm leaning towards master's of petroleum engineering. My undergraduate wasn't in petroleum, but I have 7 years of experience in the industry. I just got laid off a few weeks ago, the oil market is shit now, and I was thinking that I could travel for a year or so, then do a Master's. Between my experience and M.Eng in Petroleum along with the hope that things have recovered by 2017 I think I'd be pretty well set.

The reason I was thinking Australia was because if I could get a nice gig there, it's an easy hopping off point to SE Asia. Live there 28 on/off, back to Oz for work. A Masters from there would help me find work there I think. But is that really worth 50k? Even then. I've had friends who went there and loved it, but got decimated by cost of living and ended up returning to Canada. (Not STEM, but still).

No its not worth it unless you want to find a job in that country too.

If you want to return to the US after school forget about it. The real value of going to grad school is to tap into the alumni network to land a career. If the school's alumni network is too small or in a different country than where you want to live after school, then international school is a complete waste of time.

Post: #6

You can get funding for masters programs. Just apply widely. Many programs will give you some degree of tuition remission if you a competitive applicant. Or you can work as a research assistant if you are interested in research (or as a teaching assistant).

Post: #7

Seadog, you might want to consider applying here, I have quite a few friends in various fields who ended up effectively getting a free or near free masters degree due to scholarships.

Cost of living is relative in Australia. If you do nothing but work the cost of living difference is going to be very marginal simply because your only differences will be food & rent which surely can be minimized and you'd save money on flights to Asia.

Personally, I'd just go here for a degree. I'd only go elsewhere if it were for an Executive MBA. There are a few better options in the US for that.

You might want to look into Australian work visa requirements as it may be easier for you to get a job if you study there. (I have no idea. I just know this applies to foreigners studying in Canada)

Post: #8

seadog check your PMs I have info on this shit. Would post here but I would Dox myself!

Post: #9

And what about this in a European context?

For example, the women and weather in Madrid are much better than in where I live. When I'm abroad I pull a lot more women compared to my years in the Netherlands. Does it makes sense to study internationally then (the uni might even be better, too, in Madrid, it's not deciding 'only for women').

I could study in a lot of countries within a couple hours flight (heck, even drive) from where my homebase is, and there are some appealing options.

Post: #10

Masters degrees don't really help, they may help you get in the door, or they may be useful later down your career path. What matters is work experience.

Post: #11

(03-19-2015 09:49 PM)tomtud Wrote:  Masters degrees don't really help, they may help you get in the door, or they may be useful later down your career path. What matters is work experience.

In my personal situation I need a masters degree. It will really help in my case.

And in my country a masters degree is pretty much required, opposed to in the US.

But the question is more, would it be worth it do do in another European country?

Post: #12

Does your degree need to be from an "accredited" institution? If so, then a US school is a better choice.
Accreditation would matter if you want to later go for your PhD.

If you want to travel or live overseas while you study, see if you could do some or all of this Masters online.

Since you have specified Petroleum Engineering as your field - I would look at profiles of the Ptrlm Engineers doing the work you want to do. In other words read through their bios and see where they studied and what degrees they needed to land that position.

It's also not true that only Ivy League matters or STEM, etc etc. It totally depends on what you want to do, what industry and so on...
Some jobs, and I wouldn't be surprised if this includes engineering... you will hit a ceiling if you do not have an advanced degree.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Masters program in your field that has a paid internship component, including overseas, with a corporate partner. I'd expect that some of these companies would recruit right out of these programs?