Post: #51

I did a cold approach on a black woman and didn't know what to say so I said, "You're the first black woman I've ever hit on." After that, she seemed VERY interested, nice, talkative, smiled, and introduced herself.

Post: #52

(06-02-2011 01:50 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  That is a well spoken answer, and only someone in denial would disagree with this! I feel its a big reason why so many black guys start dating out of their race in the first place. It's the acceptance of women of other races that give them impression on reputation that "white women are nicer", that you hear so many black guys mention. Your Wacka Flacka, Kobe Bryant, Chris Brown types do not have trouble with black women, because their height, relative good or 'in style' looks and height give them enough social value to be acceptable in the eyes of many black women. In other words, attractive black women are in many cases, just too hard to get! A white or Hispanic girl, who is into black men, many times is just happy to have a black! They're not quite as aware of what is the ideal in the black community, so they are more likely to give an average black guy a chance. Note, I said average, not ugly or bottom of the barrel.

One thing I've noticed is that a very attractive black women almost always feels she needs to be with someone either very good looking and tall, rich, or on the top of the heirechy in their class, be it business man, baller drug dealer, captain of football/basketball team, etc. On the other hand, I will see a hot Latina dating a Latin gardner, with basic looks! I will see hot, white women, with white guys who only have decent jobs, have basic looks and many times, feminine mannerisms! Only black women do I see as a whole having these stringent standards of looks and class. That is, until they reach 40, and realize that the Prince Denzel Charming, is coming to rescue them, or they finally realize that you can't have a 9-5 working, respectful to women, take care of his kids and mow the lawn, thug!

+1 for you, very good post.

I'd add to this that the ideal in the black community is part of the problem.

In modern black America, the masculine ideal is that of the urbanized, street-wise, tough and hard nosed black male. "Swagger" or "Swag", which can be defined as a sense of style and a demeanor or way of behaving, is an embodiment of this. Guys who are considered to have "more swag" tend to be men who come closer to the urbanized, black male ideal in the way they dress, walk and talk.

We had different ideals in the past-in the 60's, the men who embodied the ideal black male were guys like Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, and MLK. Men who embody the ideal today include Ray Lewis, Lil' Wayne, 50 Cent and Chris Brown.

The closer a black man is to this ideal in america, the more social proof and sexual market value(female suitors) he will have. This is why you'll find that in Black America, the men who tend to be the most visible, most sexually successful and most popular(ex. Lil Wayne, Wacka flocka Flame) are those who come closer to this ideal.

Black women have VERY LITTLE TOLERANCE for men who deviate too far from the black masculine ideal, and as has been said already in this thread, they maintain unusually strict standards. If you're a black guy who, for whatever reason (maybe you grew up in the suburbs) lacks swag (read: doesn't dress or behave in a way in keeping with black urban masculine ideal), you have next to no chance. "Swag" is essential for any black man looking to approach a black American woman(regardless of her class), period. They just don't feel right dating men who lack it, unless those men are either a) not black or b) quite affluent (I'd argue that black American women are the most materialistic group of women in the US as well, but I'll save that discussion for another post). Only with money can a black "nerd" with little "swag" overcome this disadvantage.

Black women often complain about "successful black men" (the few black men who are white collar lawyers, doctors, etc) dating outside of their race. The reason for this is because these same "successful black men" (the ones with their shit together) are the ones who are least likely to meet the ideal I outlined above. when younger, these men are often just not "hard enough", "too corny", or "white" for most black women.

These, unfortunately, are precisely the type of men who tend to do well when they age. White, asian and hispanic women, though also having a tendency to pass over "good guys", give these types of men a chance much more often, which is why you'll observe so many of them with average guys(or somewhat affluent, but "nerdy" guys) in real life. Black women just don't want them.

These few black men who don't fit the ideal are generally rejected by black women for most of their earlier years because black women have no tolerance for "corny black men". White, Asian and Hispanic women don't have any hold ups about this, however. When approaching a black woman as a black man, speaking proper english, wearing inexpensive/non-urban clothing, and doing very well in school are all things that may put you at a big disadvantage(double it if you're not tall or muscular). On the other hand, a black man with these qualities has a shot with a white/asian woman, perhaps even an advantage over a more "urbanized" black man. Over time, the guys just do the math and play the odds, eventually neglecting to bother with many black american women long term. They're just forced to look elsewhere.

So, in effect, black american women, by virtue of the way they select their men and the "swag" they demand, tend to weed out the "good guys" from their pool, and thus end up alone more often than other groups of women. These men grow up and become the wealthier men who are in demand, but because of the rejection they have a greater tendency to write black women off as long term mates, and are more likely to go steady with a white/asian/hispanic/non-american girl.

Black women just price themselves out of the market, plain and simple. If you're non-black and you want them, give it a shot, but I'd not consider it worth the effort.

Post: #53

(06-02-2011 01:50 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  In other words, attractive black women are in many cases, just too hard to get! A white or Hispanic girl, who is into black men, many times is just happy to have a black! They're not quite as aware of what is the ideal in the black community, so they are more likely to give an average black guy a chance. Note, I said average, not ugly or bottom of the barrel.

....

One thing I've noticed is that a very attractive black women almost always feels she needs to be with someone either very good looking and tall, rich, or on the top of the heirechy in their class, be it business man, baller drug dealer, captain of football/basketball team, etc.

Re-posting this from pretty-much-everywhere, since it's become relevant to the conversation and some of you guys may not be familiar:

Post: #54

LOL. This thread is laughable to me. The reason why black women have these ridiculous standards is because a dime black girl is a hot commodity for black men. We have a huge obesity problem in our community. This makes finding a dime black girl much harder especially if you live outside DC or Atlanta.

Post: #55

(06-02-2011 07:40 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I'd argue that black American women are the most materialistic group of women in the US

Au contraire, I'd have to say Persian women win that award. SoCal Persian women are the worst of the worst. This a parody but too far off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfWwOw1xXNU

Post: #56

(06-02-2011 10:31 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(06-02-2011 07:40 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I'd argue that black American women are the most materialistic group of women in the US

Au contraire, I'd have to say Persian women win that award. SoCal Persian women are the worst of the worst. This a parody but too far off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfWwOw1xXNU

Yeah, they do give them a run for the money.

I'll maintain that Black American women are certainly top 2 when considering all major female ethnic groups in the US.

Post: #57

(06-02-2011 09:17 PM)rakishness Wrote:  LOL. This thread is laughable to me. The reason why black women have these ridiculous standards is because a dime black girl is a hot commodity for black men. We have a huge obesity problem in our community. This makes finding a dime black girl much harder especially if you live outside DC or Atlanta.

True, I forgot to mention that.

http://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/templates/...px?ID=6456

Black American women have a 51% obesity rate(adjusted for those 20 and over).
Most black American adult females are obese and sadly, that's not an exaggeration.

Black men are at 37.6%, though keep in mind a sizable portion of those guys are just big(ex: Michael Vick qualifies as "obese") because they've built a lot of muscle mass. Take those guys out and you have a much lower rate for black men.

More obese women, because they cannot build heavy muscle mass the way men do, are simply high body fat. In other words, when looking at stats like these, you have to note that a vastly larger percentage of men who are "obese" are going to be in shape/desirable than are women, since women can't build as much muscle to gain weight(and since there are more male athletes/weightlifters).

In other words, you have a pretty poor situation for black men who are looking for black women. Any slim girl comes at a premium because most black women are obese, and even a decent looking black guy is facing an uphill battle. There just aren't enough relatively healthy, shapely women to go around, and if all things were equal and every black man paired with a black women, many healthy black men would have to settle for a fattie.

What a frikkin nightmare.

Post: #58

@Athlone you might find these funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNSpWUdFWFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a7Ztkko614


Interesting stats on obesity. Black and white men are "overweight" at about the same proportion. That's also true for those over 20, they aren't far apart from each other. Though of course they are probably not factoring in those with muscle. I'm 5'8" and 190lbs, but I work out, I'm not fat. I'd be considered overweight. Almost 80% of black women are overweight. White women aren't doing to great either at 60%. I'm not sure what constitutes overweight though. Is a girl that's pleasantly thick like Kim Kardashian considered overweight? Nonetheless, it's a serious problem that needs to be addressed. The high percentage of obese black women over 20 is probably going a long way to make the attractive in shape black girls twice as stuck up as they should be.

http://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/templates/...px?ID=6456

Post: #59

(06-03-2011 01:58 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  @Athlone you might find these funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNSpWUdFWFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a7Ztkko614

Lol good find bro, Ten is actually among my inspirations along with a few other guys on youtube(TheLou28, etc). They tell the gospel truth. Here's an example from Lou about black american women being single:

Quote:Interesting stats on obesity. Black and white men are "overweight" at about the same proportion. That's also true for those over 20, they aren't far apart from each other. Though of course they are probably not factoring in those with muscle. I'm 5'8" and 190lbs, but I work out, I'm not fat. I'd be considered overweight.

Other "obese" male athletes you may know include Michael Vick(6'0, 215), Troy Polamalou(almost precisely my height and weight), Ladainian Tomlinson(5'10", 215), and about 90% of top college and professional football players(as well as many foreign Rugby players) you know.
Many NBA players(including Dwayne Wade at 6'4", 220) are overweight.

Men get a bit of a free pass on this because, as all these examples show, they can be "obese" or overweight due to muscle mass. Women, lacking testosterone(and generally not as common in professional or even amateur sports or weightlifting) simply don't build heavy muscle weight the way men do.

Thus, a double standard: Obese men can be healthy(and actually extremely attractive and ideal to women) with low body fat and high muscle mass, while obese women are almost unanimously unhealthy(high body fat, low muscle mass).

Factor this in to the stats and you have an even grimmer picture. They say 37% of black men and 51% of black women are obese. This is already an uneven number, but factor all of the men within that 37% who physically resemble Vick, Polamalou or any other non-famous guy who works out(like you and me) and it gets worse. The real number of truly fat black men might be 10 or more percentage points lower.
If all things are equal and these guys are forced to pick a black woman, MILLIONS of black guys who are in shape would have no choice but to settle with an obese woman. That is how bad the numbers are-guys can't win.

Quote:Almost 80% of black women are overweight. White women aren't doing to great either at 60%. I'm not sure what constitutes overweight though. Is a girl that's pleasantly thick like Kim Kardashian considered overweight?

Possibly. I prefer to look at obesity for this reason. Kim K. is like 5'2", weighs something like 140 or so(guestimating from visuals-she is thick). She is probably slightly overweight, but everyone agrees she's hot. a chick can have a slightly overweight BMI(especially black girls who are naturally thicker and more muscular than other women) and still be very hot.

An obese woman is another story. 5'2", 145 can be hot still. 5'2, 170 never really is and unlike men, you can't even excuse her for being muscular or anything. A woman that big at that height is just fat, plain and simple.

Quote:Nonetheless, it's a serious problem that needs to be addressed. The high percentage of obese black women over 20 is probably going a long way to make the attractive in shape black girls twice as stuck up as they should be.

http://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/templates/...px?ID=6456

It is something most guys don't think about, but it just makes sense. Supply and demand.

Shapely black girls are in very high demand, and relatively low supply(most black women are obese in America). Black men have lower average BMIs and far lower percentages of body fat than do their female peers.
If every relatively healthy black male demanded an equivalent female, millions of them would be unable to find one.

If you're an attractive black girl, not only are you getting pedestalized like crazy(all american men generally pedestalize heavily as compared to, say, Eastern European, Scandinavian or Latin Men), but you're getting it far more often than others because you're relatively rare. You have very little competition(most of your peers are fat), and you have legions of guys who are in great shape trying to get at you. For every one healthy you, there are two healthy male equivalents competing for you. Those males have to either master game or become very famous/affluent in order to get to you-the bar is very high, and you can afford to leave it there and be choosy.

I recommend either giving up entirely on black American women or doing as Ten says and "skipping these stateside chicks". I think this situation is hopeless, I really do.

Post: #60

All black women I've approached so far were attracted to me from the very beginning.

I sometimes approach black women with a sexual opener, for example: "Hey, you have sexy lips!" Right on the street. They love it. They love it when you are cool and confident.

Post: #61

Some great information in this thread guys. I assume we are narrowing this down to African-American women?

(06-03-2011 05:36 AM)Bronze Wrote:  All black women I've approached so far were attracted to me from the very beginning.

I sometimes approach black women with a sexual opener, for example: "Hey, you have sexy lips!" Right on the street. They love it. They love it when you are cool and confident.

I see a pattern in your posts, and it's not the good kind...

Post: #62

(06-03-2011 05:56 AM)Vicious Wrote:  Some great information in this thread guys. I assume we are narrowing this down to African-American women?

I assume so or all Westernised black women. Non westernised black women operate under different rules..

Post: #63

(06-03-2011 03:17 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I'm 5'10, 208. I'm also a Division 1 runningback, and statistically I am obese(or close to it). Other "obese" male athletes you may know include Michael Vick(6'0, 215), Troy Polamalou(almost precisely my height and weight), Ladainian Tomlinson(5'10", 215), and about 90% of top college and professional football players(as well as many foreign Rugby players) you know.
Many NBA players(including Dwayne Wade at 6'4", 220) are overweight.

Men get a bit of a free pass on this because, as all these examples show, they can be "obese" or overweight due to muscle mass. Women, lacking testosterone(and generally not as common in professional or even amateur sports or weightlifting) simply don't build heavy muscle weight the way men do.

Thus, a double standard: Obese men can be healthy(and actually extremely attractive and ideal to women) with low body fat and high muscle mass, while obese women are almost unanimously unhealthy(high body fat, low muscle mass).

Factor this in to the stats and you have an even grimmer picture. They say 37% of black men and 51% of black women are obese. This is already an uneven number, but factor all of the men within that 37% who physically resemble Vick, Polamalou or any other non-famous guy who works out(like you and me) and it gets worse. The real number of truly fat black men might be 10 or more percentage points lower.
If all things are equal and these guys are forced to pick a black woman, MILLIONS of black guys who are in shape would have no choice but to settle with an obese woman. That is how bad the numbers are-guys can't win.

Good post. However, you are not overweight seeing that you play football and neither is Dwayne Wade. These BMI's as a gauge of weight are antiquated techniques created in the Iron age for assessing obesity. It totally fails to factor in body type or muscle mass.

If I ever got down to an acceptable weight according to that BMI requisite, I'd be deemed starving.

Post: #64

@Athlone, something just occurred to me. I got back from the supermarket. Saw a tall, fairly fit looking black dude with an obese ass ugly white woman. Unfortunately, I see this shit way too much. So it cuts at the theory that black dudes are dating out to avoid overweight black women.

Look at this and click on the video: http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/dpgonc-d...c-20100315

Here is her with her husband. And the thing is that dude is actually in decent shape for his age. WTF?!?!

Post: #65

(06-04-2011 12:50 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

This woman must have some really good swagger in her game. Probably she negged him a lot and played "hard 2 get".

Post: #66

(06-04-2011 03:56 AM)Bronze Wrote:  This woman must have some really good swagger in her game. Probably she negged him a lot and played "hard 2 get".

Until proven otherwise.

Post: #67

(06-04-2011 12:50 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  @Athlone, something just occurred to me. I got back from the supermarket. Saw a tall, fairly fit looking black dude with an obese ass ugly white woman. Unfortunately, I see this shit way too much. So it cuts at the theory that black dudes are dating out to avoid overweight black women.

Look at this and click on the video: http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/dpgonc-d...c-20100315

Here is her with her husband. And the thing is that dude is actually in decent shape for his age. WTF?!?!

True, I do see a lot of this as well. The more well-to-do black men who date out(the "too nerdy/white/no swag" types I was talking about) don't seem to do this often as they can get access to attractive women, but many average black guys seem prone to settling for white whales.

Too many black dudes are either willing to settle for a fat black woman or a fat or old(or both) white woman. And it ends up driving home the stereotype that black men have no standards or sexual self control-they'll bang, knock up or wife anything that moves, even if it resembles a beached whale. And these guys just continue to do it, blowing fattie egos up sky high and deflating the perception of black men further and further.

Like I said, its hopeless, and these guys are hopeless. Ten's got the right idea.

EDIT: Did some extra research and found that this guy might be a recent immigrant. Could be a visa/residency thing. Live with the fattie(and her leftovers, which can feed you), and get permanent residency?

Still seems absurd to me.

Post: #68

(05-13-2011 06:29 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Black American women are by far the most hypergamous group of females in this country. Their standards for "alpha" behavior, monetary status and outward appearance/demeanor(swag) are higher than you will find in other groups. They demand more and are far more aggressive in their repulsion when they don't men who meet said requirements.

Agreeded 100%, when dealing with a black woman you have to be a MAN! Physically,mentally and financially.

And depending on the city, it that factor is multiplied. A black woman from Iowa is more accepting than one from Detroit, Atlanta or Chicago.

They are turned off by soft ass guys period.

And yes are very direct in telling you, that you don't meet those requirements.

Post: #69

(05-13-2011 06:50 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(05-13-2011 05:48 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  Speakeasy, how old were those chicks? I am willing to bet they were under 21.

I agree with what you said about having to act hard. That's especially true if you are in the ghetto or at a black nightclub. If you come across as pussified in any way, you simply aren't getting any, period. While I didn't grow in the ghetto, I did spend a summer as a teen with some family members back east that lived in the ghetto. And the culture teaches dudes to be hard, never show any weakness and approach any girl within sight that you like. If guys know you like a girl but won't approach her, you'd be ridiculed as a pussy and would get no respect from guys. That's why dudes in the ghetto learn game from a young age.

It's not about ACTING hard!! It's about being hard due to your environment, you can't grow up in a rough area acting like a little bitch all the time, you have to grow up at a very young age and handle ya business whatever that may be.

If you see a girl you like and you don't approach, yes you have bitch tendencies. There is no reason in the world for a man to be afraid to approach any woman, she's not gonna kill you, all she can say is no.

Around 14-15 yrs old me and my boys used to get dropped off at the mall or movies just to approach hoes all day for hours, we didn't give a damn about no rejection we was horny and wanted to fuck.

Rejection was and still is just part of the game, nothing personal.

And if you didn't have your swag on 100 that day, you might go get a pint of gin to get it up to par.

Gin was like a bullet proof vest when we was going to the mall, keep you safe when you get shot up (which is when a girl doesn't give you the number, she "shot you down")so if you had a bad day 0-10 you probably got shot up that day and ya ego bruised.


But the next time (usually saturday) you may have your swag on 100 (a new haircut, shoes, clothes, alot of $$, whatever) so your confidence is sky high you go and get 8 out of 10 and get one bad ass female that was all in to you.

When we were younger we thought it was the clothes, $$, chain whatever that the made us more attractive, but as we got older we realized it was the confidence that having those things gave us that made us more attractive to the girls.

We used to keep the numbers in shoeboxes with notes so we remember details about the hoes and had a star rating system, that determined who we call first.

If the girls was trippin when you called, you just cleaned their number out the box, and get some new prospects.

Going to club getting 20-30 numbers yeah I approached 60+ girls that night, but so what.

Nobody is batting 1000 when approaching women. Not brad pitt, no bill gates nobody.

This shit isn't rocket science, you dudes seriously are thinking too much. It's a numbers game that's all.

So by the time you are 20 hell you have approached 1000's of women, and some black women have been approached 1000's of times by black men so they heard all the lame lines, and BS guys is running and they want you to get to the point.

And by the time I was 25 it was game over. I would approach any woman in seconds.

But being 6'4, 265lbs no kids and well off and handsome helps lol.

So with black women you guys need to be DIRECT!!

My Approach:

After getting the girl attention two questions -

1. What's ya name?
2. What the number? while handing them my phone or TELLING them to go get a pen and paper.

It would work 70-80% of the time i would say, no question. The other time I would some dumb ass reply like

HER - "how you know Im gonna give you my number"

ME - "cause I asked and you wouldn't have stopped if you didn't want to give it to me, you know I didn't call you over here for no damn directions"

HER - DAMN you direct huh?

ME - silent

HER - Ok, I like that...(while writing down #)

ME - Looking around to see what store ANOTHER girl with a bigger bootie went into...

Like I said #1 advice be direct!!!!!!!

White girls are indirect which I can't stand!!!

They say shit like "you wanna hang out some time?"

to me all I think is hang out? wtf is hang out, I wanna fuck.

Black girls say - we fucking tonight?

ME - I'll call you when I'm on my way.

BE DIRECT & BOLD!!!

Post: #70

(06-02-2011 09:17 PM)rakishness Wrote:  LOL. This thread is laughable to me. The reason why black women have these ridiculous standards is because a dime black girl is a hot commodity for black men. We have a huge obesity problem in our community. This makes finding a dime black girl much harder especially if you live outside DC or Atlanta.

Somebody say "chuuurch"

That's why I retired from that game and go into a new game.

Latin women....

Post: #71

(05-15-2011 02:22 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(05-15-2011 08:27 AM)Tommy Wrote:  I love reading this forum but alot of stuff here just doesn't seem the same like where i'm from. Girls in Europe are different than girls in the USA I guess.

Trust me when I say that, compared to other populations of black girls in Africa, The Caribbean, Latin America and Europe, American black girls are an ENTIRELY different animal to deal with.
Many of the bad things guys are saying about them here and on many other sites online are unique to them as a population group, and don't apply as consistently to the other half a billion black women on Earth.

Agree 200% special breed...

Post: #72

Also I will add this, for all the bad things that are said about African American women, they are the most down ass woman you could EVER have in your corner if the shit hits the fan.

Yes you have to deal with alot of their BS and attitude, etc, but once they fall in love with you. She will go to hell and back with and for you.

They are very strong mentally and will be there to help you out no matter what, lose your job ( they will sell ) their wedding ring to help you get back on your feet, whatever it takes they are seriously the most ride or die chick you would ever want in your corner.

And the good ones are ALWAYS looking out for you, I mean everyday every minute making sure you stay on top.

When it's time to go to war, nobody I would rather have in my corner than a black woman, but when I go to bed....... I prefer Dominican or Colombian....



Now if we could just fix this obesity thing I may go back to dating sistas!!

Post: #73

Any man that dares to put on hideous egg-yolk yellow and black shoes deserves to have just as hideous a girl to match.

Look at those hideous shoes!!!

Who the fuck told him that egg-yellow and black hideous shoes go with grey slacks and a terra-cotta sweater? It certainly was not GQ Magazine, that's for damn sure.


Mixx

Post: #74

(06-04-2011 11:35 PM)txbeachbum Wrote:  It's not about ACTING hard!! It's about being hard due to your environment, you can't grow up in a rough area acting like a little bitch all the time, you have to grow up at a very young age and handle ya business whatever that may be.

If you see a girl you like and you don't approach, yes you have bitch tendencies. There is no reason in the world for a man to be afraid to approach any woman, she's not gonna kill you, all she can say is no.

Around 14-15 yrs old me and my boys used to get dropped off at the mall or movies just to approach hoes all day for hours, we didn't give a damn about no rejection we was horny and wanted to fuck.

Rejection was and still is just part of the game, nothing personal.

It is fairly easy to say all of this when you were raised that way. I understand that the majority of black men are raised with this mentality, which would explain the "black men have a ton of game" stereotype.

If you are part of the small subset of black men who weren't raised in a manner even remotely resembling this, then you're going to have a very different approach to things.

Post: #75

(06-04-2011 11:52 PM)txbeachbum Wrote:  Also I will add this, for all the bad things that are said about African American women, they are the most down ass woman you could EVER have in your corner if the shit hits the fan.

Yes you have to deal with alot of their BS and attitude, etc, but once they fall in love with you. She will go to hell and back with and for you.

They are very strong mentally and will be there to help you out no matter what, lose your job ( they will sell ) their wedding ring to help you get back on your feet, whatever it takes they are seriously the most ride or die chick you would ever want in your corner.

They're plenty "ride or die" if you're "hard" enough to meet their standards and then subsequently overcome the entitlement and the attitude. For any black man with a background even mildly similar to your own (that'd be about 80-90% of black american men), this is a pretty good deal.

If you're not that guy, then opposite rules apply. They will be among the most hostile, mercenary and disloyal women for a man like that, and are probably best avoided in that scenario.