Post: #26

"The problem with paternity testing is that it assumes that the people DOING the testing are honest about the results.I can't find the link, but I did come across an article some time ago about how pediatricians who treat rare diseases often find out that the dad isn't the bio-dad, but DON'T TELL HIM "for the child" and basically tell them mom that they know, but they won't tell. Fucking assholes."

That is silly. The paternity testing agency is paid to deliver an honest result, a pediatrician is paid to treat a disease. As far as the pediatrician is concerned, spilling family secrets is not his job, and honestly I wouldn't fault one for staying mum. Doctors are overloaded as it is. How would a paternity testing agency deceiving its own customer base be good for business? Plus they might open themselves up to a lawsuit if they lied, given the use of such testing in court.

I used to think mandatory paternity testing was a good idea but I wonder... If every chick KNEW the baby would be tested, she would be more careful about using birth control while fucking around, at least the more cunning women would. Keeping it optional makes cuckolding more likely if the woman is cheating, and thus easier to catch.

Which begs the next question - is it better to stay in a relationship with a woman cheating but she still has your kids, or to have her cuckold you and then an immediate divorce. I'd want the latter. But as blackhawk wisely noted (great post btw), some may opt for the former. And I'd imagine that even those upper class women who are cheating would not want to be known socially as bastard mongers. So perhaps widespread, voluntary, surreptitious paternity testing is best. I like Sonsowey's 23andme idea, though you'd probably want to get a second test just to confirm.

Post: #27

(02-14-2015 03:28 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  I used to think mandatory paternity testing was a good idea but I wonder... If every chick KNEW the baby would be tested, she would be more careful about using birth control while fucking around, at least the more cunning women would. Keeping it optional makes cuckolding more likely if the woman is cheating, and thus easier to catch.

The problem that arises is child support. There's a thread on here about a dude who might get locked up not paying for someone else's bastard child. I'd rather have a bitch be sneaky and cheat than be a court ordered cuckold for 18 years.

Post: #28

(02-14-2015 03:22 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  You just fell onto my forum troll radar.

I'll try to survive.

Quote:Why are you glorifying hypergamy and victimizing women?
It bares repeating that women choose to get pregnant, it doesn't happen by accident.

Yea sure women have been doing this forever, humans have been doing many things forever such as genocide, rape, etc., doesn't mean we should pass it off as the natural order of things, that's not how civilization was built. Also interesting how you completely omitted the part of the ignorant male who is cuckolded and lives a lie, in modern society even if the lie is exposed he will still have to pay.

Since your point is that women are not to be blamed for committing these crimes then I'm calling

What? where did you read all that? How am I "glorifying hypergamy and victimizing women"? And did you even read the part where I say this is the ultimate betrayal?

What I wrote was simple supposed to illustrate what goes on inside a woman's mind, not what I think is right. It was supposed to be a cautionary tale, for men not to trust women and to make sure to always have a paternity test done.

I thought it was a pretty well established fact that men's reproductive strategy is to try to impregnate as many women as possible and women's is to try to get the best genes and if the owner of those genes disappears then use someone else to provide for them; you know, the whole provider vs lover thing. You might not like how Nature works but Nature doesn't care about fairness, or good or righteousness, survival of the species is all that matters.

How did you fail to recognize this is what I meant and read all that silliness about glorifying and victimizing women stuff?

Post: #29

(02-14-2015 03:40 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 03:28 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  I used to think mandatory paternity testing was a good idea but I wonder... If every chick KNEW the baby would be tested, she would be more careful about using birth control while fucking around, at least the more cunning women would. Keeping it optional makes cuckolding more likely if the woman is cheating, and thus easier to catch.

The problem that arises is child support. There's a thread on here about a dude who might get locked up not paying for someone else's bastard child. I'd rather have a bitch be sneaky and cheat than be a court ordered cuckold for 18 years.

Yeah but that's because of a bad law - instead of proposing one law to patch up a bad law, just remove the bad law itself. That means: immediate relief of child support requirements in cases of cuckoldry.

Post: #30

^Good point, since we're talking in theoretical terms.

If a man is dumb enough not to get a paternity test he can raise the kid, while those of us who are wouldn't have to worry about raising someone else's bastard.

Post: #31

Don't put too much weight into 23andme.

It's all the astrology shit about "you were born under these stars" repackaged as "you were born under these genes". Trying to use 23andme to establish paternity is probably a big waste of money.

It's chick crack pseudo-science with just enough scientific veneer that your friends won't scoff.

Post: #32

I had a DNA test with my daughter now 6 months old and it is a requirement for any future children that i will have. Now she even looks like me a lot, but it can be hard to tell in the beginning, especially if it is a premature child like my daughter was. (I live alone now and visit my daughter 3 times a week)

2 years ago my child's mother had a son with another man than her ex husband and I helped the ex husband to reveal the truth and get a paternity test, because I knew who the real father was. He wasn't allowed by the government to get a DNA test because there was not a real father to test. So you have to get a name and a man that is willing to get tested in order to get a DNA test here. Luckily for the child and for the ex husband, he kind of had the feeling that the child wasn't his and therefore he didn't have any contact to the kid after they divorced when the child was 7 months old.

My child's mother and her family would try to hide the lie until the very end, and after that they acted as if nothing had happened and as if the real father had been there all along. (the kid was 1 and a half before his real father came into his life). The poker face and the cynicism my child's mother and her family had, has taught me some very very important lessons in life.

Funny thing is, the ex husband who was not the father is a big dominant, violent steroid using tattoo artist who rides a motorcycle.
The real father, a former boyfriend is a fat, stupid and submissive guy who was still in love with her.

So the discovery happened all during the pregnancy with my child and of course I couldn't trust the mother, even though I had had sex with her everyday in the period she got pregnant. So I required a DNA test and always will from now on.
One more funny thing: Before meeting my child's mother I had just read "Sperm Wars" by Robin Baker making me really anxious
about the darkness and cynicism of female sexuality.

I tell all my friends and everyone I know to make it clear to any woman, that if they have children he will require a DNA test.
One of my best friends who is not red pill or game aware, he tells me that his father required a DNA test back in 93' and that he also will get a DNA test with any children he might have. So some guys are aware of female sexuality even without knowing anything about red pill wisdom otherwise.

But what is up with adopting? why would anyone do that?

Post: #33

As much as we have to respect everybody's love choices, I strongly believe that a women with kids, no matter if she got them inside or outside of wedlock, is damaged goods and shouldn't be dated, ever. Unless the kids are yours. They can be good for satisfying natural desires, but not more.

Anyway, I'm strongly in favor of mandatory birth-time DNA testing for every mother, without exception, before any official document can be emitted.

They should include DNA testing right at the hospital, before the mother is allowed to take her baby out. This would obviously create more government-raised children, but the burden will be on the taxpayers, whilst the amount being so minimal that nobody will complain, rather than on a poor man who believed he would become a father.

I believe that western countries should follow Thailand regarding child support laws. It's a good example. I read the law dispositions, and I understood the following:

- For childs born outside of marriage, they are considered bastard children and child support is not applicable; regardless of the father's financial situation.
- For legitimate children, upon couple separation (which is rare), the father has to pay child support; however, if he finds out later by DNA testing that he is not the father, the child support payments end immediately. Even if he signed the documents at birth.
- The father can, at any time, sign a document agreeing to pay child support, ON HIS OWN WILL.

So you can basically knock-up your girlfriend if you're not married, run away, and walk free. However, Thai people don't abuse the law regarding child care and there is generally no problem with that. Luckily, feminist movement hasn't spead here yet.

Post: #34

Thailand is alpha. Anybody watch Lauren Lake Paternity Court?

Post: #35

(02-15-2015 02:54 AM)Blackhawk Wrote:  Don't put too much weight into 23andme.

It's all the astrology shit about "you were born under these stars" repackaged as "you were born under these genes". Trying to use 23andme to establish paternity is probably a big waste of money.

It's chick crack pseudo-science with just enough scientific veneer that your friends won't scoff.

23andme = astrology? No way...

Post: #36

(02-15-2015 02:54 AM)Blackhawk Wrote:  Don't put too much weight into 23andme.

It's all the astrology shit about "you were born under these stars" repackaged as "you were born under these genes". Trying to use 23andme to establish paternity is probably a big waste of money.

It's chick crack pseudo-science with just enough scientific veneer that your friends won't scoff.

Genetic testing is pseudo-science?

Post: #37

>Genetic testing is pseudo-science?

Did I write that? No I did not.

23andme is pseudo-science, which is why they've both been smacked with an FDA warning letter and are under a class action lawsuit pointing out 23andme's genetic testing kits are meaningless, unsupported by scientific evidence and falsely advertised to consumers.

If you want a DNA paternity test, just pay for a DNA paternity test. These can actually be used in court as evidence to sever child support.

Don't waste money on 23andme.

Post: #38

(02-15-2015 01:37 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  >Genetic testing is pseudo-science?

Did I write that? No I did not.

23andme is pseudo-science, which is why they've both been smacked with an FDA warning letter and are under a class action lawsuit pointing out 23andme's genetic testing kits are meaningless, unsupported by scientific evidence and falsely advertised to consumers.

If you want a DNA paternity test, just pay for a DNA paternity test. These can actually be used in court as evidence to sever child support.

Don't waste money on 23andme.

The FDA is the final arbiter of scientificness? That's also surprising.

Post: #39

(02-14-2015 03:22 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(02-14-2015 09:45 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  Imagine that you're a woman and you're really attracted to this guy, he has a strong personality, he's attractive, he's healthy, he's interesting, maybe a bit dangerous even. You notice other women talk about him in a favorable manner and you can't help yourself from feeling utterly attracted to him and end up falling for his charm. You get pregnant. He leaves you because men like this have other options and you didn't mean much to him. Now you're left all alone, by yourself and expecting a child. You happen to know another men that you know likes you but you really don't have the hots for, but you also know he's a good man, looks good enough and will take care and provide for you and your child. You know there are a lot more men in the world of the second type than then first. You have little means to sustain yourself and your child and you're willing to do what it takes to give said child every chance you can. What do you do?

Women have been doing this since forever and I don't blame them, it's their own genetic wiring and they can't help it. I think it's safe to assume that a large part of us are only here because this happened several times in the past. Honestly, as a female survival strategy is perfect and it benefits society in general because you have strong, healthy kids that are taken care of and grow up to be productive members of said society.

Now, what benefits society doesn't always benefit the individual and as a male this would be the ultimate betrayal, so I know that while I don't blame women for what they do I'm surely having a DNA test done if I ever have a child.

You just fell onto my forum troll radar.

Why are you glorifying hypergamy and victimizing women?
It bares repeating that women choose to get pregnant, it doesn't happen by accident.

Yea sure women have been doing this forever, humans have been doing many things forever such as genocide, rape, etc., doesn't mean we should pass it off as the natural order of things, that's not how civilization was built. Also interesting how you completely omitted the part of the ignorant male who is cuckolded and lives a lie, in modern society even if the lie is exposed he will still have to pay.

Since your point is that women are not to be blamed for committing these crimes then I'm calling

I agree with the guy. Women are biologically hard wired to provide stability for their progeny. To deny this is to deny reality. It's not necessarily mortally right but like sucks. This is why it's up to the man to make sure this doesn't happen but again no reliable 100% male contraception.

Post: #40

You can definitely use 23andme to establish paternity. I'm not sure what the legal status is but I know for a fact that if you gave me 23andme raw data for two individuals, I could tell you how or if those individuals are related.

The FDA ban has nothing to do with the quality of 23andme's data and everything to do with 23andme failing to play the FDA's game and proving that its analyses of the raw data provides accurate medical diagnoses.

Post: #41

(02-15-2015 01:37 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  >Genetic testing is pseudo-science?

Did I write that? No I did not.

23andme is pseudo-science, which is why they've both been smacked with an FDA warning letter and are under a class action lawsuit pointing out 23andme's genetic testing kits are meaningless, unsupported by scientific evidence and falsely advertised to consumers.

If you want a DNA paternity test, just pay for a DNA paternity test. These can actually be used in court as evidence to sever child support.

Don't waste money on 23andme.

Yeah I don't know where that came from.

The one thing 23andme is a joke for is assigning your ancestry to specific ethnic groups. Don't trust this section of your results, it can throw up some bullshit results. This persons looks fine for a typical white American, but I wouldn't run around saying I'm 8% Scandinavian after getting that.

Post: #42

What part of 23andme is bullshit?

The FDA told them to stop providing health results, saying "you have Gene X, people with gene X have an elevated risk for Disease Y".

The ethnicity thing is admittedly ambiguous, there are many calculators out there that can give you differing reaults.

But it sure is one hell of a coincidence that these voodoo hockers were able to tell me that my mother and I share 50% of our genome.

What are the chances!

Post: #43

(02-12-2015 03:15 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I've read that paternity fraud is between 10-15%.

The evolutionary biologist Maarten Larmuseau from Leuven (Belgium) says that this number is too high. A more accurate guess of the percentage of cuckoldry will be 1-2%, according to him.

"Het percentage onechte kinderen schommelt al generaties lang rond de 1 à 2 procent. Dat is veel minder dan het gangbare idee dat 'koekoekskinderen' 10 procent van de bevolking zouden uitmaken, zegt de Leuvense evolutionair geneticus Maarten Larmuseau." http://frontpage.fok.nl/nieuws/735309/1/...dacht.html

More reading in English: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2...yeLTDB9670

Post: #44

This is purely anecdotal, however, I personally know of two wives who cucked their husbands. One with their oldest child of three kids and one other with the middle child of 3 kids. I would say that I know approximately 80-90 couples well enough to even have a sense of this so that 2-4 percent statistic seems to hold up.

It definitely shakes my faith in humanity to hear it right from the mother that she fucked around, got pregnant, and then made the husband raise her bastard. In both instances, both the child and the husband are completely clueless. Which I find hard to believe when the one kid is so obviously different looking (hair, eyes, coloring etc.).

Post: #45

But genetically speaking, being cuckholded could be better than marrying out of your ethnic group. It sounds wrong but hear me out.

Scenario A. Man marries a woman of his own ethnic group. She sleeps with someone else from the same group and gets pregnant.

Scenario B. Man marries of different ethnicity and has child with her.

There would actually be much more genetic similarity between the man and child in A than in B. I would go as far as to say they will have more similar personalities and get along better too. It does depend on how homogenous the group in question is.

Cuckoldry is bad, but marrying out is worse if you wanna pass on your genes.

Post: #46

Marrying out can sometimes be done strategically - if the woman you choose rectifies some kind inherent genetic shortcoming.

Something that highly insular groups have had to do every so often to avoid extinction.

But being cucked - no way is that acceptable. Ever.