Post: #1

Hey Playas,

This is something that I struggle with. In the past year, I've done my best to shrug off female friends who don't add anything to my life. Generally speaking, I have been quite successful at this: I cut out three of four girls in my life who were demanding on my attention but unwilling to put out or actually be helpful.

I still, however, find myself struggling to shake one of them off.

I met her about two years ago when I was just kind of learning about the red pill. We met a few times prior to that through friends, but we never spoke much and I didn't find much of anything interesting about her back then. Fast forward to 2013, she friended me on FB and we spoke a bit and decided to meet up for coffee (stupid).

She seemed to be into me at the time. She texted me after our meeting saying, "omg, I hope you still want to hang out some more. I really hope I didn't weird you out or anything."

I proceeded in typical beta fashion to reassure her that she had my enduring approval and I eventually attempted to ask her out on a date. She rejected me and hit me with LJBF. I accepted and find myself in the mess that I am in with her today.

Over the summer of 2014, I cut her out of my life, but I didn't delete the number, so instead of getting over her, I found out that I still had her number and reinitiated contact after finally breaking things off. I'm kicking myself in the ass for that today.

I feel like I've made a great deal of progress in my life after joining this forum, but she is one of those annoying girls that I developed oneitis for before I learned to defend myself from such nonsense.

I read epic beta's thread and a lot of the advice you guys gave to him is quite applicable, but I find myself relapsing back onto her.

Like, this past week we hadn't spoken to eachother in about a week in a half and I thought I was in the clear, but she sucked me back into her life through texts asking me for my advice on some dumb shit that I shouldn't have entertained:

"Fortis, what would you do if you were going out with a girl and you look at her phone and see that she has tinder notifications."

I reply with, "I wouldn't care because I wouldn't be going out with a girl exclusively in the first place. you know this about me."

But she just kept bothering me about it, so I knew that some guy she is "seeing" is essentially playing her.

I told her to drop the guy and that she was going to end up wasting some of her best years (she just turned 24 this year, so she already lost those years) on guys that don't take her seriously. I know that I shouldn't have even replied to the text in the first place, but I find that she has a bit of a hold on me in that regard.


The above question lets me know that she's getting railed by some alpha who is playing her. I seriously don't want to know anything about her love life because it'll just lead to me torturing myself because the truth is that I never wanted friendship with her. Even if i were to help her out with advice (like I did) she'll continue to make decisions based on her emotions and not on logic and will continuously find herself in this situation over and over again. I don't want to be her emotional tampon.

She knows a fair bit about my life and how I've embraced a lifestyle of low-effort and zero commitment when it come to women. I broke a lot of the code and even explained a few red pill truths to her in regards to my dealings with women. She'll occasionally ask me how many dates I've been on this week and shit like that. I realize i've made a grave mistake by giving her access to that side of my life.

I deleted her number today, set up a date for friday night with another chick and even got another number today that I'm converting into a date for monday. I'm doing my best to make moves and forget about her, but she's just always reabsorbing me, like for example, she just got back from a trip to NOLA and she bought me some whiskey and a few things from the region. She really does consider me a friend, but I'm beginning to realize that I never wanted her friendship. I wanted to fuck her from the moment we started talking all those years back, but I was too weak to walk away when she rejected my beta proposal.

I'm wondering if you guys have any specific advice you might give that'll help me finally put the nail in the coffin on this one.

Thanks,

Fortis

Post: #2

(02-04-2015 10:55 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I told her to drop the guy and that she was going to end up wasting some of her best years (she just turned 24 this year, so she already lost those years) on guys that don't take her seriously.

Back in my beta days I did pretty much the same thing once. And it worked about as well. Women usually learn these things the hard way (i.e., when they're 35 and childless), unfortunately.

But on to your main question - maybe you can enjoy the good things while avoiding the bad. Bringing you free whiskey? Awesome. She needs your help moving? Tell her you're busy, but maybe she could hire some movers. Not %100 sure how well this would work for you, but it's an idea.

Post: #3

(02-04-2015 10:55 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Hey Playas,

This is something that I struggle with. In the past year, I've done my best to shrug off female friends who don't add anything to my life. Generally speaking, I have been quite successful at this: I cut out three of four girls in my life who were demanding on my attention but unwilling to put out or actually be helpful.

I still, however, find myself struggling to shake one of them off.

I met her about two years ago when I was just kind of learning about the red pill. We met a few times prior to that through friends, but we never spoke much and I didn't find much of anything interesting about her back then. Fast forward to 2013, she friended me on FB and we spoke a bit and decided to meet up for coffee (stupid).

She seemed to be into me at the time. She texted me after our meeting saying, "omg, I hope you still want to hang out some more. I really hope I didn't weird you out or anything."

I proceeded in typical beta fashion to reassure her that she had my enduring approval and I eventually attempted to ask her out on a date. She rejected me and hit me with LJBF. I accepted and find myself in the mess that I am in with her today.

Over the summer of 2014, I cut her out of my life, but I didn't delete the number, so instead of getting over her, I found out that I still had her number and reinitiated contact after finally breaking things off. I'm kicking myself in the ass for that today.

I feel like I've made a great deal of progress in my life after joining this forum, but she is one of those annoying girls that I developed oneitis for before I learned to defend myself from such nonsense.

I read epic beta's thread and a lot of the advice you guys gave to him is quite applicable, but I find myself relapsing back onto her.

Like, this past week we hadn't spoken to eachother in about a week in a half and I thought I was in the clear, but she sucked me back into her life through texts asking me for my advice on some dumb shit that I shouldn't have entertained:

"Fortis, what would you do if you were going out with a girl and you look at her phone and see that she has tinder notifications."

I reply with, "I wouldn't care because I wouldn't be going out with a girl exclusively in the first place. you know this about me."

But she just kept bothering me about it, so I knew that some guy she is "seeing" is essentially playing her.

I told her to drop the guy and that she was going to end up wasting some of her best years (she just turned 24 this year, so she already lost those years) on guys that don't take her seriously. I know that I shouldn't have even replied to the text in the first place, but I find that she has a bit of a hold on me in that regard.


The above question lets me know that she's getting railed by some alpha who is playing her. I seriously don't want to know anything about her love life because it'll just lead to me torturing myself because the truth is that I never wanted friendship with her. Even if i were to help her out with advice (like I did) she'll continue to make decisions based on her emotions and not on logic and will continuously find herself in this situation over and over again. I don't want to be her emotional tampon.

She knows a fair bit about my life and how I've embraced a lifestyle of low-effort and zero commitment when it come to women. I broke a lot of the code and even explained a few red pill truths to her in regards to my dealings with women. She'll occasionally ask me how many dates I've been on this week and shit like that. I realize i've made a grave mistake by giving her access to that side of my life.

I deleted her number today, set up a date for friday night with another chick and even got another number today that I'm converting into a date for monday. I'm doing my best to make moves and forget about her, but she's just always reabsorbing me, like for example, she just got back from a trip to NOLA and she bought me some whiskey and a few things from the region. She really does consider me a friend, but I'm beginning to realize that I never wanted her friendship. I wanted to fuck her from the moment we started talking all those years back, but I was too weak to walk away when she rejected my beta proposal.

I'm wondering if you guys have any specific advice you might give that'll help me finally put the nail in the coffin on this one.

Thanks,

Fortis

Add her number to your blocked numbers list.

Female friends can be useful to you IF they are social butterflies with loads of hot friends that like to throw parties and go to other events(and bring you, and introduce to you hot women there). If she is just soaking up any attention you give her as her orbiter and not really doing much for you, other than the occasional whiskey, then block and delete her number.

Post: #4

Yeah, what is worse is when they reject you but still want to be 'friends'.

Post: #5

She's dogged.

Was the whiskey a cheap common brand? If it was something high-class and she spent $300+ on you, you should stay friends with her in order to get some return to show for your time investment. Don't reach out to her or do anything.

If it wasn't, then drop her. Would you stay friends with someone if she bought you a pack of gum?

The female friends in my life are a) those who are socially beneficial to me, or b) those that I'm obligated to tolerate and smile at because my male friends are friendly with them, or my LTR is friendly with them. Even the female friends of a previous LTR, who I genuinely liked, when it was over, I pretty much instantly cut all contact with them.

If she isn't in one those two categories, there's zero reason to be friends with her. There's just too many things we need to do.

Post: #6

(02-04-2015 10:55 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I'm wondering if you guys have any specific advice you might give that'll help me finally put the nail in the coffin on this one.

Dude? Seriously? You make the choice to get drawn back in. You're making it sound like she's doing it.

Ignore, avoid. How hard can it be? You want me draw it out for you? See example below of things should go:

Quote:Her: Hey Fortis, I just wanted to ask you some advice about random stupid shit you have absolutely no interest in.
You: [nothing]
Her: did you get my message?
You: [nothing]

1 day later

Her: hey you, where are you?
You: [nothing]

Post: #7

Time to drop her from your life. She's using you for attention. It's pretty simple. There is absolutely no reason to be friends with a girl that you had romantic interest in.

Post: #8

[email protected] yeah that shit is annoying. I've let that happen too often in the past. This past year I learned a lot about women and I'm NOT accepting that anymore. I had to next a girl recently for trying that shit.

@ lowside: yes I fucked up bad there. I slipped. Mercy for a playa? I have already taken steps beyond her.

Erad good looks. I deleted her. My phone doesn't have a block feature (or at least a block feature that makes any sense), but i'm cutting all contact with her.

Post: #9

(02-05-2015 12:29 PM)tallandblonde Wrote:  Time to drop her from your life. She's using you for attention. It's pretty simple. There is absolutely no reason to be friends with a girl that you had romantic interest in.

I found out the same thing the hard way.

I agree with Mr. Tallandblonde.

I tried everything I had in my toolcase:
- no commitment, ok
- FWB? No, she prefers to bang her 55y neighbour - Mr. M6, as I call him, guess why..
- Just.. "friends" (we hang out with common friends and such).. No, too stressful for me.

I dropped her out of FB, I haven't seen her or talked to her for 6 months now and I feel MUCH, much better.

I've just sent her an SMS for an REALLY important thing that happened on the FOREX market (Swiss peg dropped - she works in Switzerland but lives in Italy) just to show her that even if she is a poisongirl, I am a man with a proper ethics (I managed her savings until I cut her out from my life).

For everything else, she can go fucking Mr. M6 (who has a family, 2 daughters and a wife..)

She's 37, she's hitting the wall, have fun until it lasts, baby.

Post: #10

(02-04-2015 10:55 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I deleted her number today, set up a date for friday night with another chick and even got another number today that I'm converting into a date for monday. I'm doing my best to make moves and forget about her, but she's just always reabsorbing me, like for example, she just got back from a trip to NOLA and she bought me some whiskey and a few things from the region. She really does consider me a friend, but I'm beginning to realize that I never wanted her friendship. I wanted to fuck her from the moment we started talking all those years back, but I was too weak to walk away when she rejected my beta proposal.

I'm wondering if you guys have any specific advice you might give that'll help me finally put the nail in the coffin on this one.

Thanks,

Fortis

Dude, this is an easy one...if she's got you on a line remember you can always grab on that line and pull her back towards you.

I've been in situations like this...the girl "just wants to be friends" or whatever...it's total BS and I won't stand for it.

She's always texting you which means she already likes you...so you just use that momentum to take the relationship in a direction that you want. It's like steering a car that's already moving forward.

Slowly and subtlety at some point you'll reach a "pivot" point where she can't treat you as a friend anymore but a real romantic interest. Just take it slow and reel her in and remember go out with other girls in the meantime.

Post: #11

Fortis, what about asking her to hang out (involving drinks, at night), and just seduce her as if she was some new chick you were out with. Basically go all the way trying to fuck her, and either fuck her, or let her stop you and you're like "yeah whatever I was horny and you looked alright tonight."

If it goes great, great. If it doesn't, maybe chat with her once more (ignoring the fuck attempt) so she doesn't think that caused a rift, then create the final rift of ditching her.

This is kind of a random hail-mary-ish thought....

Post: #12

456 and Apollo, does that sort of thing actually work? We were scheduled to chill next week so she can give me my gifts from her latest trip. Sounds like it could possibly work, but is it worth the effort involved?

We were texting daily up until about a week and a half ago when I began to make a concentrated effort to uproot myself and move onto greener (wetter) pastures.

Post: #13

(02-05-2015 02:05 PM)Fortis Wrote:  456 and Apollo, does that sort of thing actually work? We were scheduled to chill next week so she can give me my gifts from her latest trip. Sounds like it could possibly work, but is it worth the effort involved?

We were texting daily up until about a week and a half ago when I began to make a concentrated effort to uproot myself and move onto greener (wetter) pastures.

Add alcohol, don't give a shit and cocky/funny, bang. If she adds value to your life past that, keep her, if not, drop her. She's not been a good friend, it's block or fuck at this point. Almost any phone provider will block a number for you, it's not a cell phone feature, it's your provider, gotta talk to them.

Post: #14

Aneroid, sounds like a solid plan to me. Sounds like what I do on any date. I'll report back if anything comes of it.

Post: #15

(02-05-2015 02:05 PM)Fortis Wrote:  456 and Apollo, does that sort of thing actually work? We were scheduled to chill next week so she can give me my gifts from her latest trip. Sounds like it could possibly work, but is it worth the effort involved?

We were texting daily up until about a week and a half ago when I began to make a concentrated effort to uproot myself and move onto greener (wetter) pastures.

She's giving you gifts? Dude, it's obvious that she likes you. If you like spending time with her then why burn a bridge if you don't have to?

The problem is that you're focusing on the wrong thing...You've got to charm her and be playful...slowly turn up heat until she notices something's different about the relationship because you're in the driver seat now and she kind of likes it...

That's why keeping her as a friend actually works in your favor. Go out with other girls
and relax. Bide your time and slowly work the relationship until you're in the position where it's actually she who wants to get with you.

Post: #16

^ sounds like a long game doing all of that. Have you done this before?

Post: #17

(02-05-2015 03:45 PM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ sounds like a long game doing all of that. Have you done this before?

I have...actually I've perfected it. It works best for difficult girls though...or escaping the friend
zone...or when the girl has a bf. You should not normally need a long game for 75% of the girls you meet.

Post: #18

^ Do tell. How exactly do you do this? I'm curious.

Post: #19

The best way is to learn my man...and practice...a lot..by spending time with girls;
learning how they think and what they react to. That's why you want female friends...
the "practice" time alone is invaluable...and it helps you when you go out and talk to other women.

Post: #20

Dawg,

I feel you, but you cannot be like, "I know this secret technique" then not deliver. You even called yourself a master of said technique. if you're not going to share, then why bring it up? You're quickly making me incredulous.

Post: #21

There are no secret techniques man...just the fundamentals practiced well.

First, you gotta know how women see you...what's their impression of you when they talk to you?
When I started (in my twenties) I had no idea...now when I talk to a girl, I know exactly
what I want her to think and feel.

You use a combination of being genuine, funny, thoughtful and caring to get her to
the point where she has some pretty strong emotions about you. Then you escalate.

In long game, you look for opportunities to create moments, where she starts to see
you as an awesome guy, then you escalate everything: the flirting, the humor, etc
to the point where you're pretty close(emotionally)...then it's a matter of moving in
and escalating physically. It's one long hunt.

Post: #22

Fortis, I've done the "surprise, were banging" with female friends before.

To be fair, it's usually been with girl I friend zoned... but the "friends" thing had been going on long enough that it was probably out of left field. The story goes, we go out for a drink and chat once in a while, I may hit on some nearby girls if any strike my fancy, etc., she doesn't care. We both talk about our dating lives and go our separate ways at the end of the night.

But the times I've decided I want to fuck, I just get a little more close to her, a little more touching, and I've led the night to sex in one of two ways:

1. the lift her chin up, quick but sensual kiss, then pull back, then continue whatever convo and order another drink. Subject's kind of been broached, so I say "hey I have some [rum/weed/whatever] at my place" and she'll either say "ok!" or "ehh I'm tired tonight" -- I have no reaction either way.

2. no pre-home kiss, but straight to the "hey I have some [rum/weed/whatever] at my place".

So it's almost like "date-lite" move on a girl I'm already very comfortable with. More often than not it's worked.

In your case YOU were the friend-zoned friend, but my theory is that it doesn't matter who friend-zoned whom if it's been long enough of "just friends", and you haven't been desparate or "crushy" around her at all.

The overarching point is that It Doesn't Matter -- even if it fails, you will get some points in her eyes for balls. No harm in trying.

If she's really a friend, she won't even unfriend you after this if it goes badly (or well!). Just resume friendship as normal a few days later with a lunch hang.

And I agree, it is great to have a certain quality of female friend for myriad reasons.

(edit: your secret lifeline, should it get to an awkward place, is simply a non-apologetic "hah, yeah I was really horny, you looked good... I have a penis, you know the deal" -- so she can write it off as boyz'll be boyzzz)

Post: #23

Just check what she brings to your life and see if you would like to be friends with a male that brings you the same.

Would you have a male friend that constantly asks for advice about his life, yet never invites you to parties, never introduces you to hot girls, etc? Then why do it with a female?

Many girls are just looking for the typical beta orbiter to satisfy their attention-whoring needs. Don't be "that guy". Don't be the friendzoned guy that hangs with female friends without never getting anything.

A girl needs to bring you something: sex, or otherwise, invite you to parties AND introduce you to other girls, have professional qualifications that you need, or anything you judge useful.

A girl that has no talent and that doesn't bang you is, IMO, uselsss and just seeking for validation.

Post: #24

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the input. So far I haven't heard from her since I made this thread. We have tentative plans to chill next week, but I don't know if they'll come to fruition. I'm tempted to try out what 456 and the other guy are saying, but that sounds unnecessarily arduous but I do believe that just "going for it" is the spice of game, so I may do that.

Overall thoughts: I need to be done with this girl in some way, shape or form. That much is true. I'm going to try and bang her if I see her again, but she's otherwise on the sideline. I've been scheduling dates and trying to get with girls in the mean time.

Post: #25

The mantra: Always go for the bang, could work for you in this situation.

I had a similar-ish situation to this last year. I was hanging out with a female friend, we were drinking, we ended up talking about sex. I had most of her clothes off giving her a massage, we got up and I hugged her(mistake). I should have converted the hug to kissing and touching her pussy. I'm still kicking myself today about it. Because I was in an LTR at the time, I approached the physical escalation the way I would have with my gf, in a loving way, instead of in a fucking way.

I think you have a chance to get her in a similar situation, and by the sounds of how you approach things of this nature, I expect you will be able to escalate to fucking instead of a beta hug.

I'm not trying to give you false hope, but I think it is possible for you to bang this girl providing everything goes your way.