Post: #1

This is another one of those police shooting videos.

But it is very graphic. Be warned.

I wanted to post it here for comment. This one looks clearly like the officer should not have fired on this guy.

Guy takes off running, then stops to pick something up. Officer claims it was a gun. Not clear to me, and not clear that the gun was even being pointed at the officer.

Under the law, officers are not supposed to shoot at fleeing suspects unless they reasonably believe their lives are in danger.

I don't see any clear danger to the officer in this video. Judge for yourself. If I'm missing something here, somebody bring me up to speed...

You may have to sign in to You Tube to watch this, as it has been labeled as "graphic."

Post: #2

Are we really going to argue about whether a cop was justified in shooting a fleeing suspect that dropped a loaded gun and then bent over and picked it up?

Post: #3

The guy ran from a cop and picked up a gun I'm guessing he previously discarded or fell out of his pants when he was running. At that point he was both a lethal threat to the officer and the general public.

Good shoot.

Post: #4

^^^ Suits:

How do we know it was a gun? All I could see was a guy takes off running, stops and picks something up. That's all I could see.
If I'm missing something, please let me know...

At the time the shots were fired, this guy had his back turned and was running away down an empty country road. I'm not seeing any threat here.

Post: #5

Haha. I live in Tulsa which is like 30 mins from muskogee. Even the black leader of that town stood up for the cip

Post: #6

(01-25-2015 09:34 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  ^^^ Suits:

How do we know it was a gun? All I could see was a guy takes off running, stops and picks something up. That's all I could see.
If I'm missing something, please let me know...

At the time the shots were fired, this guy had his back turned and was running away down an empty country road. I'm not seeing any threat here.

It was a gun. The cop's visual was better than the video provides and he saw a gun.

It's sad and truly tragic when a cop sees a gun and it turns out to be a cell phone or a wallet.

But that's not what happened here.

The suspect could have just let the gun lie after he dropped it and continued to flee, but he didn't. He picked it up because he wanted to keep it.

It's only reasonable to conclude that he wanted to keep it, because he wanted to use it.

Post: #7

I'm surprised that the cop didn't point his gun at the guy approaching him and the dead dude.

All things considered, as soon as the perp went to pick up the gun, he signed his own death warrant. What else could the cop have done? Wait and see if the now-dead guy was gonna keep running, or point the gun in his direction?

Post: #8

^^^

I don't know, man.

I hear what you're saying, but if you look at the video, the shots are being fired after the guy had already turned and was running away. To me it looks like the guy caught about 5 rounds in the back as he's running down an empty road in the middle of nowhere.

Where is the clear and present threat?

Post: #9

Cops need guns that can instantly switch to firing rubber bullets in a case like this. I can't believe this hasn't been created and issued.

If it was a real gun I'd give the cop a good hand slap like a long leave without pay and assigned more training for firing a bit too readily into a man's back.

If it wasn't a gun you can't prosecute him he couldn't tell. I'd just fire him to make an example for other cops to tread more lightly.

The guy that got shot is a case of one that probably be weeded out of the gene pool one way or another due to stupidity.

Post: #10

(01-25-2015 09:49 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  ^^^

I don't know, man.

I hear what you're saying, but if you look at the video, the shots are being fired after the guy had already turned and was running away. To me it looks like the guy caught about 5 rounds in the back as he's running down an empty road in the middle of nowhere.

Where is the clear and present threat?

Pointing a gun at a cop is clear and present danger. After it was done they found the gun already cocked and ready to fire.

Post: #11

(01-25-2015 09:34 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  ^^^ Suits:

How do we know it was a gun? All I could see was a guy takes off running, stops and picks something up. That's all I could see.
If I'm missing something, please let me know...

At the time the shots were fired, this guy had his back turned and was running away down an empty country road. I'm not seeing any threat here.

I respect you and find both your wisdom and knowledge on numerous subjects incredibly impressive. But I think you should put yourself in the officer's shoes here.

It's your job to check on this guy and detain him so you can figure out what's going on. While you're checking him for weapons he darts off down the road, trips, and either a gun comes tumbling out of his pants or he picks up one he tossed a little while ago off the ground.

Do you wait for him to potentially turn around and start shooting at you? Do you play the odds, not do anything and let a clearly distressed armed man possibly get away (if he doesn't start shooting at you)? That's also an act which would be a dereliction of duty, I might add.

You are also under no moral or legal obligation for him to start shooting at you before you respond and I assume you, as a rational human being, don't want to get shot.

What would you do?

Post: #12

^ I'd be too lazy to chase him and call in the helicopter, drones, and attack dogs. He's in the middle of flat country with little tree cover.

Post: #13

^^

@Wastelander:

I agree with everything you're saying. You may be right, and I may be totally off base here. I certainly don't think that a police officer in the field should be arm-chair quarterbacked by some guy like me on the internet.

All I'm saying is, from this video, I can't see all that. All I'm seeing is some guy take off and flee. He runs a bit. Then he stops to pick something up.

From the video, I can't see what the hell it is. If it's true, as you say, that the cop saw a gun, then that's something different.

It also looks like the firing started after the guy had turned his back.

If the guy had stopped, turned around, and pointed gun, then fine. He's fair game. But it just looks like he caught a wall of lead in his back as he was running away holding some uncertain object.

You may be right...I could be totally wrong here.

Just telling you guys what I see, or don't see.

Maybe this video does prove one thing: that videos are inadequate substitutes for a real pair of eyes and ears on the ground, in the moment, as it is happening.

.

Post: #14

The idiot should have left his gun on the ground and kept running.

Post: #15

If you watch the entire video the cops recover the gun. While you don't get a clear shot of it, they discuss it and I find it hard to believe they'd make it up whole cloth on the scene.

I'll keep an eye out for any articles tomorrow or later this week that have pictures of the firearm.

The problem with the video is that the quality isn't all that clear, but a body cam is better than no body cam. Can you imagine how this might've played out had we not had even a bit of basic footage? The media would've had free reign to work up the mob once again. In fact, in this article they try anyway by bringing up the Michael Brown shooting.

Post: #16

Less than a second before the cop fired.

Post: #17

Quote:The nearby church pastor arrived on the scene and assured officers that McMillin “followed procedures” and “did everything right.”

http://threepercenternation.com/2015/01/...itnesses/#

Post: #18

I am with Quintus on this, questionable shoot at best, execution at worst.
I could not tell what the guy dropped, but as some one stated that the video is poor and the cop saw it was a gun. Fine, the guy picks it up makes no move to point it, turns his back and runs away. The cop shoots him in the back well after he turned and starts to run again.

The problem as I see it. . . . cops are killing, beating and abusing too many people. It is not just blacks this happens to. It will continue to spread until we are all under the thumb so to speak. Part of the problem is cops themselves being very aggressive. Part of the problem are all of the laws we have. Laws are ever expanding. Behind the laws is the very real threat that if you disobey you will be jailed. You balk at that then beaten or shot and then jailed.

Post: #19

(01-25-2015 10:23 PM)Ironsun Wrote:  The cop shoots him in the back well after he turned and starts to run again.

See the screenshot i posted above? Feel free to post more video between that and when the officer shoots.

*spoiler*

It doesn't exist

Post: #20

^You ARE saying that the cop shoots when the dude is turned and running away right?

Post: #21

Immediately after the first shot. Can you see the gun? Is his back to the officer?

Post: #22

(01-25-2015 10:29 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  ^You ARE saying that the cop shoots when the dude is turned and running away right?

You might want to unlike my post if that's what you thought I meant. The officer couldn't see the gun or his back and was justified in taking the shot. I felt nervous watching him as I couldn't see the gun after he picked it up. It would have been easy enough to shoot across his body while retreating.

Post: #23

Here's a link with the actual shooting turned down to slow motion (video is also slightly clearer, though not as long). Not only does the suspect turn his upper body toward the officer, you can see an object raised up in a gesture which could be considered threatening (using the same hand the responding officer pulls the gun out of a minute later) - though admittedly, said object did not appear to be pointed directly at the officer.

I gotta side with the officer in this case; given the situation I would have pulled the trigger as well. I don't understand why people think they can fight or run from the police and not expect to be shot. Nothing fires up the human adrenaline more than a chase, especially one where both parties have weapons (or there is a strong suspicion that the other party has a weapon). If you fight with the cops, or do not comply and they view you as a threat, there's only one thing gonna happen whether it's justified or not - look at that recent shooting with the guy who refused to comply with the officer who saw a gun in his glove box and then was a big man and stepped out to confront the cop and instead got a half dozen 9mm's in the chest. If you're gonna fight the cops you may as well just open up when they show up, otherwise it's the world's tiniest violin from me when some tough guy half asses it and gets wasted. If you think you're being wrongfully arrested or charged, save it for the courts.

And on a more basic level, I personally have no sympathy simply because the runner was an idiot - instead of just standing in the parking lot with his thumb up his ass, he should have been on the look out for the cops in the first place, and hid the gun in one of those car's wheel wells when the po-po rolled up. And when he ran, instead of jumping the ditch and disappearing into those concealing cat tails and trees only a few short feet away, he runs straight down the open road. Darwinism baby. No tears for idiots from me, crooks or otherwise. If you gonna fight the law, go full bore or go home.

Still you QC.

Post: #24

Here's how stupid this guy was. It's a misdemeanor to carry a gun without a permit in Oklahoma. With a lawyer he could've probably gotten off with a few days of jail and a fine.

He wouldn't have had a felony record that would've prevented him from seeking gainful employment. All he had to do was inform the officer who was trying to pat him down that he was armed, where it was, and peacefully surrender the weapon.

The fact that he didn't, in my opinion, means that it's likely he really did threaten to harm his ex-girlfriend at the church wedding and was serious about it.

Post: #25

Your screenshots are less clear than going frame by frame in the actual video. But yes the dude turns and starts running away, and then the first shot comes at that instant. For the other shots he is completely turned and running away.

My problem with these videos starts much before a shot is fired at all. It starts when cops starts harassing someone on the street and arrest or detain them. Where was the warrant? Apparently this guy has made death threats to his ex gf? Get a warrant. Go to his house, show it to him, and arrest him.

What was he doing wrong in the parking lot? I don't see where these guys get off. Btw I supported the innocent verdict in the Zimmerman case then, and the non indictment in the Michael Brown case. Those were very different. This is not about race. Maybe it actually is but I have never seen it that way. This is about the cops swinging their big dicks, or compensating for the lack of it.

I made a post at the end of the last police shooting thread too that I implore you to read. /thread-44446-...#pid939083