Post: #1

I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I've been in an LTR. I got into LTR game partially because I like the girl, and partially because I wanted to try something different. This is the first LTR I've had since I really went redpill.

My game is strong enough to pull consistently where I live, but this LTR has really pushed me. It's pretty easy to game when you don't care about her or ever seeing her again.

It's also easy to hide a lot of flaws when your interaction with a girl is short lived. It's one thing to get rejected on an approach. The girl doesn't know anything about you, and it could be a lot of different things behind the rejection.

It's different to get rejected in an LTR, because the girl is rejecting the man you are.

The longer you know a girl the more apparent your flaws become.

I never realized how lazy I am when it comes to game until this LTR.

I've also noticed some good things. My frame is very strong. I naturally make the decisions in the relationship. When she talks about shit I don't like I just grunt or ignore her. I've got her invested in me, buying me shit and making me killer breakfasts. I can go out without her, talk to other girls and have a blast. I think I have come a long way in becoming a man who can handle a woman.

This seems like the ultimate test, both the good and the bad are a lot more apparent than they are when I am just trying to pull SNLs. Maybe it's because I don't do a lot of dates.

What do you guys think, are LTRs the ultimate test of game?

Post: #2

No they're not. If you need to use a lot of game on your girlfriend, it means you picked the wrong girl.

Post: #3

LTR bitches may be sweet and nice for a while, but inevitably, they will get used to you, and start taking you for granted, and will shit test you, to see if you've gone soft and beta. They will be less attracted to you sexually.

Nothing dries up a woman's pussy like thinking the man she's with wants to have sex with no one else but her. You have to use game in a LTR, to constantly show some surprising, fun, new aspect of yourself. You have to lead, even to the point of making up plans and tasks every day, and dividing them out, even if she's perfectly competent to go about her business without your planning. You have to lead, for the sake of leading, and you have to make sure your leadership has a positive, successful outcome. You have to cultivate and maintain a level of aloofness and soft dread, like you don't care if you lose her, and may bounce yourself if she doesn't stay on her toes. If you let your game slip, she will be on your weak spots like flies on a carcass.

This is a case where absolutely all women are like that (AAWALT). If an LTR can't manage to be sweet and affectionate in the beginning, then dump her ass now. She'll only get worse. If you decide to stay with an LTR in the long run, to try to build a family and have children, then plan on gaming her for life. Plan on realizing periodically that your game has faltered slightly, and when it happens, fight to get back on top of your game. Just being fit, good looking, rich, and famous is not enough to keep an LTR. You need game. Sometimes even that isn't enough, but at least some of the time, it is.

Post: #4

It's a test of character. Your ego will be challenged at times.

Can you handle her past (if she was a slut or conservative)?

Can you handle the fact that she wants to spend time with you all the time?

Can you handle the sacrifices to your personal and social life?

Can you handle fucking just one woman?

Can you handle the fact that she has probably fucked a guy with a bigger dick than you or if she has been in MMF threesomes?

Can you compromise over certain things and make problems disappear?

Can you handle meeting her family and showing face, even if you don't like them?

Are you comfortable with including her in your life?


Game, not so much. Character and ego-check yes.

When you go from being satisfied to simply tolerating and need to use game, then the time to abandon ship has arisen.

Post: #5

(01-22-2015 02:27 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  No they're not. If you need to use a lot of game on your girlfriend, it means you picked the wrong girl.

That can be part of the reason.

LTRs adhere to similar rules to Gaming hotties for quick bangs. But there are of course some differences and it's essential that men experience both things. Someone who only knows how to bang and bails every girl after 3 weeks may be too stunted emotionally.

But after a time you realize 2 main ingredients to a good LTR dynamic - even for men who are Game aware and use it non-stop:

1. She is not too far gone in terms of feminism or delusions/cock-hopping psychosis
2. She is 1-2 points below you in market value or shit will be happening. That is how female hamster think - if you managed to bang a girl above you in sexual market value it might be tough to keep her around. The shit-tests will be coming non-stop and as she is badgered by high-quality dick your value will be tested even more.

The second dynamic is very well known the 'sphere and most stable marriages over time settle around 1-2 plus points for men as they age and her value decreases.

I even think that some men have a value beyond 10 - super-stardom like Leo Di Caprio easily surpassing any 18yo super-models out there. If he wanted to settle in a LTR with her, she would not leave him.

On the other hand for someone making 6 figures in a good job attracting such a high-value girl might be more difficult. If you have tremendous Game, good looks and are in the right society circles it might in fact be possible to pull it off, but it would be much harder. That is the nature of the sexual market place.

Post: #6

Delete

Post: #7

Game recognised to Muslims holding 4 LTRs down.

Post: #8

(01-22-2015 04:50 AM)Pride male Wrote:  Game recognised to Muslims holding 4 LTRs down.

That's not Game - that's just social constraints and the power of the legal structure. If your wife can get stoned for allegedly being unfaithful, even a Western bitch would be very disciplined and gracious.

Post: #9

^^Point taken. Hats off then to South African President Jacob Zuma for holding down 7 wives. And all the other polygnous dudes out there. Charlie Sheen, Hugh Hefner and others.

Post: #10

(01-22-2015 06:29 AM)Pride male Wrote:  ^^Point taken. Hats off then to South African President Jacob Zuma for holding down 7 wives. And all the other polygnous dudes out there. Charlie Sheen, Hugh Hefner and others.

Charlie Sheen & Hugh Hafner don't really use Game or at least don't have to much - their social value is a male equivalent (Hafner was due to his age now) of a 12 or higher. [I think that the male attraction scale goes beyond the female 10 simply because there is no woman on earth who is able to attract so many high value men who would even want to share her.]

I am certain they get their own fair share of shit-tests after a while, but simply say NEXT and that's the end of it.

Jacob Zuma - I would not want to have his place - looks more like a nightmare:



Now that I can understand:

Post: #11

I don't know about it being the ultimate test of game, but the game will never end. Being in an LTR or a marriage in no way means you have a won the game and are no longer on the sexual marketplace. I still have to game my wife and we have been together for 5 years now total. Now, granted, it's not the same kind of game I ran when I was first trying to get into her pants, but I need to make sure that I'm still acting like the bad-ass motherfucker she met or I know she may get tired and possibly leave. That's a given. It also goes both ways in that if she stopped her sweet feminine disposition, stopped keeping the house tidy, or stopped making me dinner and taking care of me, I may leave. Two way street.

I still use my cocky funny attitudes. I still do my push-pulls. I still try to be spontaneous and fun. And I still lay the pipe well in the bedroom. To not do these things in an LTR is to ignore reality. While my game has become more subtle, it's still there, and always will be. The second you think that marriage or an LTR gives you the right to slack off is the second she starts looking for the next branch to swing to.

Post: #12

If you want to be in a LTR, the girl better bring some benefits to the table. Otherwise, why bother? It's a significant time investment in your part. Some benefits include: 50/50 on expenses, have her cook and clean the house for you, speaking a foreign language most of the time, etc.

Another thing that you may want to keep around is a list of her transgressions and assign points to each of these. If she goes past a certain amount, dump her. Did she start an argument with you for no reason? Minus two points. Was she overly challenging? Minus three points. Did she gain a couple of pounds? Minus five points. Some of these can be cleared after three or six months depending on the transgression. Use this system to assess the state of the relationship. Implement your own policy.

As the LTR progresses, it is only natural that your value increases and her value decreases. Do make sure, however, that you continue getting the same benefits as it if was day one and that she keeps her body in shape. Girls will easily get lazy. If she does, dump her.

Remember Roosh's post's title: "You must start and finish with the same game." You will always need game, regardless of your relationship status. Just because you are in a LTR doesn't mean the principles no longer apply. In fact, they are equally or more important.

Post: #13

LTR is pretty complicated game wise.

First thing first, its too soon to say anything. The first 3 months of a ltr is the honeymoon phase. Your girl will be in love with you assuming you pulled her with game. After that things start to surface.

Sometimes the girl leaves you not because you stop gaming her or because she is no longer attracted. Attraction is not enough to sustain a ltr. She needs to feel good and secure about being with you. Just like we want a ltr girl with whom we can be ourselves, so do girls want someone who makes her feel good. I gotta admit a lot of game tactics we use dont make the girl feel good, its more about weaving your way into a lay.

When my ex broke up with me i was caught off guard. She was still calling me daddy and kissing me goodbye the morning. Apparently she never feel secure in the ltr. I gamed and led well, alright, and all she gotta do was to follow my frame. The entire ltr was about me not her. She couldn't take it but never said anything because its just easier to follow my frame.

And then we must admit there are couples of equal smv of 7 or above who last for many years. No idea how they do that.

I think theres more to ltr than game. Havent an idea though.

Post: #14

(01-22-2015 07:57 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  And then we must admit there are couples of equal smv of 7 or above who last for many years. No idea how they do that.

I think theres more to ltr than game. Havent an idea though.

Male value is hard to assess because you cannot look at him and say - ok - tall, good-looking & he is together with a 7. Male value is derived from a multitude of factors - so versatile that a male looks of 5 can be a 9 in real life.

Also - don't forget - in a LTR money & comfort Game play greater roles - looks less - fat PUAs don't exist, but fat old guys who marry super-models and have even happy marriages - they exist.

Post: #15

(01-22-2015 07:57 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  When my ex broke up with me i was caught off guard. She was still calling me daddy and kissing me goodbye the morning. Apparently she never feel secure in the ltr. I gamed and led well, alright, and all she gotta do was to follow my frame. The entire ltr was about me not her. She couldn't take it but never said anything because its just easier to follow my frame.

This is interesting, can you expand on this a bit?

Post: #16

I am assuming once in a LTR you have to balance between alpha and beta game. Too much of one and she bounces.

Post: #17

(01-22-2015 01:49 AM)General Mayhem Wrote:  What do you guys think, are LTRs the ultimate test of game?

Yes, without a doubt.

If you have never lived with multiple women for multiple years, or been married - you have no idea.

Every morning you wake up it's some new bullshit you have to deal with.

And lol thinking that the perfectly pliant chick you met day 1 is gonna stay that way on day 845.

WIA

Post: #18

LTR is a good gauge to see where you inner game is at.

Do you really care to lose her knowing you will find another girl even better looking than her?

Do you have the discipline to not get too emotionally attached and ultimately break frame?

I think every player should experience relationships. You learn alot. You are put under the toughest situations in my opinion.

Locking up a sexy girl, for how ever long it doesnt matter to much as long as you can consider it dating, but the fact that you took her off the market for however long is reliable display of your value.

You were her #1 priority alpha to the extent that she voluntarily closed her legs to other men in order to be with you. No one can deny thats a good feeling and solidifies confidence.

Of course we all can have the attitude of 'Im the prize of the relationship, of course I can lock down anyone' but you need real experiences to truly live that swag.

Its like saying you can hit the game winning shot in a game of ball. Yea you can walk around like you could hit, like you have hit 20 of them before, but if you have never actually taken that game winning jumper, then when that opportunity comes, all that perceived confidence you showed will vanish, because there's no real action to back it up.

You may not have had the frame to keep her for as long as you wanted, but if you can lock up a sexy girl for any amount of time, Id say you are on the right track.

Post: #19

(01-22-2015 12:11 PM)sandman972 Wrote:  LTR is a good gauge to see where you inner game is at.

Agree. I took a woman (divorced mom) out last summer for a drink, then back to my place where she LTR'd me standing in my kitchen. She called me out as we stood in there, me indirectly unapologetic (I think that's the best way of describing it...not exactly saying "yeah I brought you back to my place to fuck you" but not denying her claims). After very little texting the next day or two...

She texts me last Friday out of nowhere and wants to meet up before moving away in a month. Remind you, I hardly know who this girl is, but ok. I push the rendezvous to Saturday night at my watering hole and...I'll let you figure out what happened later that night.

Point is, her LMR in my kitchen showed...

Do you really care to lose her knowing you will find another girl even better looking than her? Yes

Do you have the discipline to not get too emotionally attached and ultimately break frame? Yes

I think every player should experience relationships. You learn a lot. You are put under the toughest situations in my opinion. Yes, I'm indifferent because I've been burned many times, and ultimately, a lizard is a lizard...lizards may save you money on car insurance, but they don't bring true happiness.

It also showed I would fuck her. Whether I wanted a relationship or not, I'd give her a good ol' rompin. I suspect that's why she called ME instead of some other guy.

One caveat: I've lost out on younger hotter chics because I pulled the 'indifferent' card. They want to know you want them. Also, if you know you'll get LMR'd completely, better to turn her down than vice versa ("You're sexy as hell, I just feel this is a bad idea").

Post: #20

You learn a lot from relationships. In particular about yourself.

Not sure if it's some kind of game. I mean, is it a game if you're just being yourself? You can't keep up a facade indefinitely. You're gonna have to be vulnerable, be yourself, warts and all. You'll never get the full benefit of a relationship if she doesn't love the less glorious side to you as well.

My strategy is if there's something I'm not proud of, then you can either laugh it off or get to work on it. I think girls respect both of those options. But shame and passiveness is not okay.

Personally, I can see myself benefiting a great deal from the right relationship. I don't want to spend time chasing pussy, even if it's fun. I want to spend time on bigger things. at the same time, I get bored with the same girl easily, once I've had her, so I'm a bit afraid of making a commitment I can't keep.

Post: #21

(01-22-2015 07:14 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

What, you don't like big booties?

Don't you know what a real woman looks like?

Post: #22

One thing about being in LTRs - you start noticing very subtle shit tests, disrespect and flagging interest.

While you can ignore shit in the short term and follow a scorched earth policy (aka bitch i dont give a fuck get the hell out), LTRs involve a little compromise in that you aim to keep her around for longer. You need to fill or redirect the woman's need for attention, drama, mystery and healthy fear, as well as deal with her(and your)eventual flagging interest. Also, its easy to act alpha in the short term, but no one is alpha 100% of the time.

In an LTR you cannot be overt all the time, as it erodes the relationship and makes it unbearable. So you learn to punch subtly, pick your battles, know the enemy, manipulate her moods ever so slightly and also try to stay happy within the LTR

Out of necessity, you learn to become smooth (not in the cheesy way). You learn when to give a fuck, when to become cruel and when to be gentle.

You learn much more about the nature of women from an LTR than you do from short term relationships (90% of it useless).

I think the biggest takeaway from an LTR is that it makes game more intuitive (for a man who is red-pill and has a modicum of game)

It is not the "ultimate" test of game, just needs some changes in mindset and application

Post: #23

This whole thread gives me a headache.

I have little experience with LTRs maybe... 3 to 4 months total split among three different girls!

It seems the success to an LTR is really being so focused on your life goals, your close friends and family you know that will always have your back that you really don't give a shit if she steps out of line because if she does she's gone. She's replaceable.

She's either with you or against you. Second she crosses the line she's tossed out to the wolves. Maybe this is why my LTR experience is so short-lived!

How can getting into an Endless Mental Vietnam War of emotions with a chick over the long term provide happiness? Seems like bullshit. If she takes this much effort to keep in check she is a complete dud.

Post: #24

(01-22-2015 01:20 PM)Sharkie Wrote:  In an LTR you cannot be overt all the time, as it erodes the relationship and makes it unbearable. So you learn to punch subtly, pick your battles, know the enemy, manipulate her moods ever so slightly and also try to stay happy within the LTR

Of course it's not 100% Alpha - Heartiste claims a LTR is 2/3 Alpha and 1/3 Beta. Also some romantic gestures and "I love you"s fit into it, but they are best kept rare and special and thus for the Hamster it remains special.

Some women need more comfort than others - Dalaran's described experience here sounds like one of those. There are no exact formulas to follow through - you are best you in a strong Alpha frame and keep the cheesy romantic gestures to a minimum. Displaying desire for a woman is fine though.

I remember my first LTR when I was 19 - despite my basic natural passionate Alpha frame I was a total Beta back then - the funny thing is that I tried to be Beta. She was attracted to me, but somehow put off often. Over the years I became more Alpha - with the Red Pill I would have likely made the transition within months, because effectively what I tried to do is the romantic Beta I was indoctrinated to become.

Most men go through similar experiences - even the indoctrinated seemingly silent Betas would in my opinion otherwise become strong stubborn Sigmas if they had been raised by a Red Pill world.

A LTR is a different spiel, because a woman's instincts always second-guess you and try to rip into you if they sense weakness or her hypergamy tells her that "she can do better". But on the other hand she wants to feel some degree of comfort if you are too Alpha all the time.

Still - I think that some women would just drive you mad and even LTRs with them make no sense whatsoever. I am certain that with early Red Pill awareness I would not go into some relationships at all. I would just realize fast that we don't click enough, she is not so much into me or has too many problems with herself and I would drop her after the preliminary bangs.

Red Pill gives you freedom and the ability to assess women and their relationship potential better - even if you are firmly set in a good Alpha Frame and sufficient Game knowledge. Thus Game unmask the mystery of the woman herself as we know and understand them better than they understand themselves - this is the power of Game.

Post: #25

I just realized I mis-read this as LMR...my bad. Damn I feel stupid.

I would respond in-kind, but I'll step away for a bit.