Post: #76

I am not against MGTOW because they are ultimately on our side but I am critical of the celibate wing of the movement. They're just shielding their egos from rejection by wearing the MGTOW label because that label is more appealing than the incel label.

Post: #77

Aaron Clarey defined MGTOW once and for all:



The problem with the term of course is someone already mentioned it - contrary to being a MRA, Player, PUA, Traditionalist - there is nothing you have to do to be called MGTOW.

And truly if Leo DiCaprio who beds supermodels non-stop is as MGTOW as the incel 400 pound fatso, then there is way too much room in those definitions. Then you are left quarreling among each other who constitutes a MGTOW or who does not.

It begins to resemble feminist definitions where the bitches start accusing themselves of being the right kind of feminist or not.

Feminism is what feminism does and if too many crazies are defining themselves to be that then it's probably not such a good idea to call yourself that.

I personally don't give a shit what I am - I am Red PIll, occasionally a Player - occasionally because I spend sometimes 2-3 weeks running Game like a PUA, but then months doing nothing of that sort. If I want to marry and find very very very good reasons to do it, then I will do it and don't give a shit what everyone thinks about it. I know about the dangers and enough about women and if I do that then I may have decided for the positives to outweigh the negatives (currently that would only mean that she is Eyes-Wide-Shut-wealthy and powerful).

Leo DiCaprio doesn't give two shits about being called MGTOW - he does what he wants and so should everyone here.

Post: #78

(01-23-2015 05:36 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  I am not against MGTOW because they are ultimately on our side but I am critical of the celibate wing of the movement. They're just shielding their egos from rejection by wearing the MGTOW label because that label is more appealing than the incel label.

Why do you care if they are celibate? As long as they are not bothering you or telling you that you have to do the same, then it shouldn't be a concern. In fact, it is one less guy to compete against and one less guy helping these overly arrogant women pad their inflated egos.

Post: #79

(01-23-2015 05:38 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Aaron Clarey defined MGTOW once and for all:



The problem with the term of course is someone already mentioned it - contrary to being a MRA, Player, PUA, Traditionalist - there is nothing you have to do to be called MGTOW.

And truly if Leo DiCaprio who beds supermodels non-stop is as MGTOW as the incel 400 pound fatso, then there is way too much room in those definitions. Then you are left quarreling among each other who constitutes a MGTOW or who does not.

It begins to resemble feminist definitions where the bitches start accusing themselves of being the right kind of feminist or not.

Feminism is what feminism does and if too many crazies are defining themselves to be that then it's probably not such a good idea to call yourself that.

I personally don't give a shit what I am - I am Red PIll, occasionally a Player - occasionally because I spend sometimes 2-3 weeks running Game like a PUA, but then months doing nothing of that sort. If I want to marry and find very very very good reasons to do it, then I will do it and don't give a shit what everyone thinks about it. I know about the dangers and enough about women and if I do that then I may have decided for the positives to outweigh the negatives (currently that would only mean that she is Eyes-Wide-Shut-wealthy and powerful).

Leo DiCaprio doesn't give two shits about being called MGTOW - he does what he wants and so should everyone here.

And that is the purpose of MGTOW. You don't have to care or Leo doesn't have to care. If you want to care, then you should care, if not, no reason to do so.

The one requirement for MGTOW is to swallow the red pill. Sadly, this is a far larger accomplishment than we may realize. Because it goes almost 100% against everything you were taught to believe even by some of the people you love and respect the most. And that can be a huge step.

Post: #80

I don't care about them being celibate but I am not too keen on them preaching to me and criticizing me for my lifestyle. The incel wing believes the PUAs, game aware guys, and RVFers are a bunch of unenlightened chodes who are "pedestaling women" and "appeasing the feminine imperative" by chasing girls. So if they are going to hurl retarded criticism like that at me then I have a few words for them.

Post: #81

(01-23-2015 06:11 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  I don't care about them being celibate but I am not too keen on them preaching to me and criticizing me for my lifestyle. The incel wing believes the PUAs, game aware guys, and RVFers are a bunch of unenlightened chodes who are "pedestaling women" and "appeasing the feminine imperative" by chasing girls. So if they are going to hurl retarded criticism like that at me then I have a few words for them.

Well those individuals are self loathing losers and do not represent the true purpose of MGTOW. They are trying to project on to you their own fears or inadequacies. They are loser omegas to ignore.

Post: #82

(01-22-2015 10:51 PM)Deluge Wrote:  

(01-22-2015 08:27 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(01-22-2015 05:49 AM)Deluge Wrote:  I never said they were contradictions. Only that Reactionary Tree overestimates how many RVF'ers are mild MGTOW's who aren't interested in marriage or relationships. So far I don't know any existing members who've kept posting here after they got engaged, doesn't mean they've abandoned the "Red Pill" though. All the married members are guys who found RVF when they were already married.

Isn't FeisbookControl one who stayed? There are a small handful of others but they are not high repped or have high post counts.

Pretty sure he was already married. He hasn't been a member for that long.

(01-22-2015 09:55 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  @Suits: Don't you wear fedoras casually?

That puts you in the same camp as Cardguy.

I recall in a recent post he said he just got engaged. I could be wrong though.

Daaaang Suits!!!

Post: #83

Lol.

I remember five years ago or so, way before I found this forum, I was in South Lake Tahoe to go party. My buddy, who does well with girls, decided to wear a fedora because he thought it made him look like Johnny Depp. I looked dead at him and told him "You look like a faggot."

I'm glad I didn't need this forum to know that fedoras are lame as shit.

Post: #84

I just want to add one thing. I don't want to see MGTOW getting a bad rep because of a few bad apples who were not there when it was created and obviously don't understand the point.

IMO, MGTOW is the only way to reach out and turn blue pill males into informed red pill males.

Not every guy has the resources to live an excellent life, at least not immediately. Maybe after years of hard work/saving/growing/learning they can have an excellent life. But most blue pill guys have to build to get to the point most of us are at.

But every one of these blue pill males does have the ability to go his own way. To swallow the red pill, face the truth. Then work and determine the best plan for him.

MGTOW might be the only chance to reverse this disaster we face in the west and those little omega babies telling you guys that if you pick up women that you are to be shamed, they need to go piss off.

Post: #85

The MGTOW "movement" suffers from some fatal flaws that doom it from the start. These are the reasons I believe that association with this group is harmful to you:

1. A Secret Arrogance

The whole premise of the group is the stated objective of "going your own way" or "turning your back on the world." On its surface, this attitude can have some use in some situations. It can even be packaged and branded as a form of independence. There are indeed times when "not playing the game" is better than wasting your time in futile pursuits.

But the MGTOW adherents take it too far. They don't really seek independence and self-sufficiency, which are admirable goals: what they really seek is a cowardly withdrawal from the responsibilities of life. They are people, perhaps many of them gentle souls who have grown weary of the fight, who have opted to retreat into the cloisters and caverns of their own imaginations. This is the ethic of the defeated, and the broken.

This should not be the goal of a healthy, balanced man.

Even worse, I detect in this withdrawal something else: a secret pride, a submerged arrogance. These guys are in effect telling the world, "I'm too good for you, with your nonsense and your injustices. World, you refuse to conform to the boilerplate that I say is right. So I will reject you, O world, and all your evil works."

And this never works. It just doesn't. Because we can't turn our backs on the world. No matter how bad it gets, and no matter how rotten it seems, we have to stand and fight it out. There is no other way.

The healthy, mature mind will acknowledge the crimes and injustices of the world, but will also appreciate all the good that he finds in it. And then, at his last stage, he will realize the wisdom in letting the world stew in its own juices, while he focuses on himself and the things within his control.

The mature mind is one of acceptance and understanding of the world and its problems. It is not one that cowers in the shadows, and hurls insults at the world.

2. An Overt Laziness

Adopting the MGTOW philosophy is a convenient way of dodging work. Life is work. Life is struggle. Life is doing things you don't want to do. And doing them over and over again. Forever. Welcome to life.

The MGTOW worldview is one of permanent resignation. It's sitting on the side of the road, with your feet on your pack, and watching the column of infantrymen walk by on their way to the front.

Far better is it for us to be wounded and scarred by the living of life, than to seek a sterile safety by refusing to enter life's turbulent arena. Better for us is it to claw and stab our way through life's battles, than to resign ourselves to an existence of repose and quiescence.

3. A Paralyzing Inertia

There is no such thing in life as "going your own way," when you really think about it. We are bounded on all sides by customs, traditions, restrictions, rules, and regulations. It is better to shape and mold those to our ends, than to run from them in permanent resignation.

To "go one's own way" smacks of detachment from the group, and is fundamentally an anti-social impulse. An isolated man, adrift on the open ocean, soon finds himself insane.

Don't believe me? Read what happened to the cabin-boy Pip when he fell overboard in the novel Moby Dick. It is dramatic, but it is real.

Life is action. Life is movement. Life is punches, scratches, kicks, and smacks. To adopt a philosophy that denies this--as MGTOW does--is to succumb to inertia. It means a surrender to helplessness.

What kind of blasphemy against life is it, not to be aroused by the sight of a beautiful woman? What kind of man would be so craven as to throw in the towel on life, on love, on sex, just because the world refuses to conform to his imagination?

The day we stop looking at women is the day we die, as many have said. And the day we stop struggling is also the day we die. There is only forward, forward, forward.

So, these are my reasons why I could never agree with the views of this group. As screwed up as everything is, as hosed up as the world is, I will not turn my back on it.

I want to confront it. I am here, and I am in this world. And I want to stick a fucking bayonet in its guts, as far as it will go.


Q

Post: #86

(01-24-2015 02:38 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  2. An Overt Laziness

Adopting the MGTOW philosophy is a convenient way of dodging work. Life is work. Life is struggle. Life is doing things you don't want to do. And doing them over and over again. Forever. Welcome to life.

The MGTOW worldview is one of permanent resignation. It's sitting on the side of the road, with your feet on your pack, and watching the column of infantrymen walk by on their way to the front.

At the risk of sounding like an arrogant weirdo, this is why it can be useful. This system we hate is built on complicit labor of males for people who hate them (especially white males in both cases).
So we take out the prop which holds up the house.
It won't trigger a complete road warrior collapse but will cause the frailest institutions to crumble

Post: #87

(01-22-2015 09:55 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  @Suits: Don't you wear fedoras casually?

That puts you in the same camp as Cardguy.

I'm not reading a fucking book when I wear them.

Post: #88

(01-23-2015 08:34 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  I recall in a recent post he said he just got engaged. I could be wrong though.

Daaaang Suits!!!

Not sure who just got engaged, but I'm pretty sure that new lay I came inside three times Thursday night, the regular that I brought to orgasm last night and again this morning, or the female "friend" I'm meeting for brunch tomorrow morning, the spinning plate I'm doing a 2 PM lunch and sex session with or the new girl in the rotation who I'm meeting at 6 PM (likely for sex) would not be very pleased to find out I'm engaged.

So no, you have me confused for someone else.

Post: #89

(01-24-2015 02:38 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  The MGTOW "movement" suffers from some fatal flaws that doom it from the start. These are the reasons I believe that association with this group is harmful to you:

1. A Secret Arrogance

The whole premise of the group is the stated objective of "going your own way" or "turning your back on the world." On its surface, this attitude can have some use in some situations. It can even be packaged and branded as a form of independence. There are indeed times when "not playing the game" is better than wasting your time in futile pursuits.

But the MGTOW adherents take it too far. They don't really seek independence and self-sufficiency, which are admirable goals: what they really seek is a cowardly withdrawal from the responsibilities of life. They are people, perhaps many of them gentle souls who have grown weary of the fight, who have opted to retreat into the cloisters and caverns of their own imaginations. This is the ethic of the defeated, and the broken.

This should not be the goal of a healthy, balanced man.

Even worse, I detect in this withdrawal something else: a secret pride, a submerged arrogance. These guys are in effect telling the world, "I'm too good for you, with your nonsense and your injustices. World, you refuse to conform to the boilerplate that I say is right. So I will reject you, O world, and all your evil works."

And this never works. It just doesn't. Because we can't turn our backs on the world. No matter how bad it gets, and no matter how rotten it seems, we have to stand and fight it out. There is no other way.

The healthy, mature mind will acknowledge the crimes and injustices of the world, but will also appreciate all the good that he finds in it. And then, at his last stage, he will realize the wisdom in letting the world stew in its own juices, while he focuses on himself and the things within his control.

The mature mind is one of acceptance and understanding of the world and its problems. It is not one that cowers in the shadows, and hurls insults at the world.

2. An Overt Laziness

Adopting the MGTOW philosophy is a convenient way of dodging work. Life is work. Life is struggle. Life is doing things you don't want to do. And doing them over and over again. Forever. Welcome to life.

The MGTOW worldview is one of permanent resignation. It's sitting on the side of the road, with your feet on your pack, and watching the column of infantrymen walk by on their way to the front.

Far better is it for us to be wounded and scarred by the living of life, than to seek a sterile safety by refusing to enter life's turbulent arena. Better for us is it to claw and stab our way through life's battles, than to resign ourselves to an existence of repose and quiescence.

3. A Paralyzing Inertia

There is no such thing in life as "going your own way," when you really think about it. We are bounded on all sides by customs, traditions, restrictions, rules, and regulations. It is better to shape and mold those to our ends, than to run from them in permanent resignation.

To "go one's own way" smacks of detachment from the group, and is fundamentally an anti-social impulse. An isolated man, adrift on the open ocean, soon finds himself insane.

Don't believe me? Read what happened to the cabin-boy Pip when he fell overboard in the novel Moby Dick. It is dramatic, but it is real.

Life is action. Life is movement. Life is punches, scratches, kicks, and smacks. To adopt a philosophy that denies this--as MGTOW does--is to succumb to inertia. It means a surrender to helplessness.

What kind of blasphemy against life is it, not to be aroused by the sight of a beautiful woman? What kind of man would be so craven as to throw in the towel on life, on love, on sex, just because the world refuses to conform to his imagination?

The day we stop looking at women is the day we die, as many have said. And the day we stop struggling is also the day we die. There is only forward, forward, forward.

So, these are my reasons why I could never agree with the views of this group. As screwed up as everything is, as hosed up as the world is, I will not turn my back on it.

I want to confront it. I am here, and I am in this world. And I want to stick a fucking bayonet in its guts, as far as it will go.


Q

I wonder if you find this video persuasive?

Post: #90

I made a post once saying that MGTOW is probably misrepresented but it doesn't help when every person who flies this flag is some kind of basement dweller or degenerate. The incels, the my little pony cartoon fetishists, and the bitter game denialist old men need to be expelled before MGTOW will ever gain traction. These people aren't calling themselves MGTOW by choice, it's because they are losers looking to glom onto a subculture.

Trying to expand the definition to overlap all of red pill is a fairly weak attempt at subversion. MGTOW is its own thing entirely and has its roots in a subculture that split from the manosphere.

Post: #91

(01-24-2015 02:42 AM)GeroMeroHero Wrote:  

(01-24-2015 02:38 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  2. An Overt Laziness

Adopting the MGTOW philosophy is a convenient way of dodging work. Life is work. Life is struggle. Life is doing things you don't want to do. And doing them over and over again. Forever. Welcome to life.

The MGTOW worldview is one of permanent resignation. It's sitting on the side of the road, with your feet on your pack, and watching the column of infantrymen walk by on their way to the front.

At the risk of sounding like an arrogant weirdo, this is why it can be useful. This system we hate is built on complicit labor of males for people who hate them (especially white males in both cases).
So we take out the prop which holds up the house.
It won't trigger a complete road warrior collapse but will cause the frailest institutions to crumble

Going Gault. I kind of agree with you on this.

Post: #92

Yeap.

Quintus Curtius's and Germerohero's posts intersect at where my opinion on this is.
If anyone is looking for overt ripples to be shown throughout society, the mgtow effect is where you'll see it at regardless of the quality it attracts. As we've discussed tirelessly, it's highly probably that most men can't or won't try to be good at game, but the interest in not losing the game to women is always increasing(discount the omega land whale harpooners).

Mgtows have been a vital role as the smallest, more timid faction, of the manosphere's tendrils that a lot of guys get their first taste of this coalition of minds from. Now whether that's for better or worse is up for debate, because I've witnessed both good and bad reputation come of mgtows interaction with the uninformed, especially while we share an unfortunate correlation with them. My own path to finding this site was direct, but it seemed too bombastic at first, so I wandered across the more gently worded sites until I found myself unsatisfied with what was offered there. At the end of the day, if a man has balls, drive and courage, he'll find this place or something like it.

To be direct on the subject, mgtows badly need a restructuring. A movement is what it becomes or turns into. The bad elements are as much of it just as it is the same way here. Fortunately the moderators are very strict about the atmosphere portrayed here so quality remains at a level most of us appreciate. Mgtows won't ever have this or become respectable in their own right if the fundamentals aren't changed. The baseplate was a novel idea, but too vague and never fully formed.

Post: #93

(01-24-2015 03:43 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-23-2015 08:34 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  I recall in a recent post he said he just got engaged. I could be wrong though.

Daaaang Suits!!!

Not sure who just got engaged, but I'm pretty sure that new lay I came inside three times Thursday night, the regular that I brought to orgasm last night and again this morning, or the female "friend" I'm meeting for brunch tomorrow morning, the spinning plate I'm doing a 2 PM lunch and sex session with or the new girl in the rotation who I'm meeting at 6 PM (likely for sex) would not be very pleased to find out I'm engaged.

So no, you have me confused for someone else.

Not you suits, Feisbookcontrol.

I probably should have quoted cattle rustler to avoid confusion. We all know you are single. And you wear fedoras too!

Post: #94

^Gives the girl something to wear when she's riding cowgirl.

Post: #95

QC is spot on.

The MGTOW people who started this movement made the major error of not shaming, discouraging, and kicking out all the elements of Herbivores. Grass eating men are no better than feminists. Instead of separating themselves they embraced these types and now it is too late.

Because of their lack of action towards traditional masculinity, it allowed guys like roosh to fill that void, because real men don't pout like babies and check out of society. They find solutions to difficult problems instead.

Their movement will not be an answer for the future. At best it is a stepping stone for the handfuls that will eventually come out of that decrepit bog because they aspire for more and greater things as men.

Post: #96

(01-24-2015 08:20 AM)Suits Wrote:  ^Gives the girl something to wear when she's riding cowgirl.

Well played. Guys that never been to China have no idea how awesome western things like that are excellent for grabbing girls attention. I plan to rock some cowboy boots and clothes to see what kind of attention I get next time I go.

Post: #97

^I've run cowboy hat in Tianjin and it's a winner. I'm going to reacquire the necessary equipment (I left the previous cowboy hat on a bus on the Thai-Cambodian border in 2012) when the winter ends in Beijing and see if any ladies want to take a turn in my saddle.

Post: #98

I for one salute the MGTOW crowd - they make the sexual market less populated by turning down pussy even if pussy offers itself to them.

I remember Sandman saying that he turned down women for .... for whatever reasons he had.

They have strange things going on between themselves like recently some MGTOW doing a donation run for one public MGTOW to have his tooth fixed for 2000$.





All commendable stuff to help out a fellow man, but seriously - how is this major news for the movement?

At least traditionalists, PUAs or most other have more in common - we try to improve ourselves, live life to the max and take whatever comes our way in grace and full embrace - women too.

I say let there be more MGTOW who turn down pussy for whatever reason they want to - those women need to be fucked by someone.

Post: #99

(01-24-2015 05:34 AM)vinman Wrote:  

(01-24-2015 02:42 AM)GeroMeroHero Wrote:  

(01-24-2015 02:38 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  2. An Overt Laziness

Adopting the MGTOW philosophy is a convenient way of dodging work. Life is work. Life is struggle. Life is doing things you don't want to do. And doing them over and over again. Forever. Welcome to life.

The MGTOW worldview is one of permanent resignation. It's sitting on the side of the road, with your feet on your pack, and watching the column of infantrymen walk by on their way to the front.

At the risk of sounding like an arrogant weirdo, this is why it can be useful. This system we hate is built on complicit labor of males for people who hate them (especially white males in both cases).
So we take out the prop which holds up the house.
It won't trigger a complete road warrior collapse but will cause the frailest institutions to crumble

Going Gault. I kind of agree with you on this.

That is a great summation

Post: #100

Frankly I just saw another video by Sandman and to be honest.

We share so many common points among us, that it's really irrelevant whether they avoid women to a degree or not.

I also think that Sandman has an account here on RVF - I saw him commenting some time ago.

Sure Game is an important aspect around here, but it is not the most important one. Many men just use the input here to improve themselves as Sandman has hinted towards building a financial empire.

On the other hand we won't be effecting much except seeping into the entire social consciousness as more and more men become Red Pill and the media and women start to take notice. They can only claim that we are all misogynists if there is so few of us.