Post: #1

This is an interesting conundrum I find myself in yet again.

I've been on 4 dates now with a girl who is withholding sex. Strong make-outs with LMR (pushing hand away from erogenous zones) and her claiming that it was "my idea anyway to wait five dates". Disclaimer: I say this to most women on the first date, part irony, and reverse psychology. I usually bang women on Date 2 if not on Date 1. The issue with this current girl is one I am facing frequently with girls in their 30s. I am 36. Girls in their early 20s and MILFs in their 40s are sexual, affectionate, and will jump on my dick without any pressure.

I faced the same obstacles with the last girl around my own age I dated. Though she gave it up on date 3 (after much seduction), I was aghast at facing further LMR on subsequent dates. "You need to behave yourself" she would say or "we'll do something next time".

I dumped her; and a short time later I had a 24 year old on my rug telling me she loves to swallow.

All this is very frustrating, and IMO causes things to fizzle out fast. Sex is the elephant in the room and if it's not being addressed or neglected I find it to be awkward. Also, I then unwittingly fall head-first into "provider" category. I know it's not always good to generalise, but I think it may have something to do with girls around my own age wanting to be smart about giving it up, and are seriously looking for LTRs after a few runs on the cock-carousel. Maybe others have not encountered this with girls in their 30s, but it's common for me, and I'm seriously thinking of sticking to girls in their (early) 20s.

Anybody with any experience with this kind of behaviour?

Post: #2

We have all faced illogical LMR, but let's face it women are illogical

My question is how did you "unwittingly" fall into the provider role?

Are you going on actual dates? Not ramping up the flirty/sexual innuendo enough? Giving off the boyfriend vibe?

Please elaborate for us

Post: #3

(01-05-2015 08:49 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  We have all faced illogical LMR, but let's face it women are illogical

My question is how did you "unwittingly" fall into the provider role?

Are you going on actual dates? Not ramping up the flirty/sexual innuendo enough? Giving off the boyfriend vibe?

Please elaborate for us

We would go out on actual dates (without spending much money; I have a rule that I don't buy meals or spend much cash in general until poon), or netflix dates.

Straight off the bat with most chicks I am flirty and sexual and this will have them dropping panties... but when I crash into the LMR wall with a particular girl - and with the more bland "dates" I am forced to endure with this girl, my cocky/funny stamina QUICKLY depletes and I'm bored, and no doubt she is too. Had date 4 with an LMR girl yesterday where the sexual chemistry and tension is now down to probably zero as we hobble about town looking for things to do with me trying to be the charming cad I was on date one so her IL remains high enough to finally give up the poon. It's exhausting.

Post: #4

(01-05-2015 08:42 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  This is an interesting conundrum I find myself in yet again.

I've been on 4 dates now with a girl who is withholding sex. Strong make-outs with LMR (pushing hand away from erogenous zones) and her claiming that it was "my idea anyway to wait five dates". Disclaimer: I say this to most women on the first date, part irony, and reverse psychology. I usually bang women on Date 2 if not on Date 1. The issue with this current girl is one I am facing frequently with girls in their 30s. I am 36. Girls in their early 20s and MILFs in their 40s are sexual, affectionate, and will jump on my dick without any pressure.

I faced the same obstacles with the last girl around my own age I dated. Though she gave it up on date 3 (after much seduction), I was aghast at facing further LMR on subsequent dates. "You need to behave yourself" she would say or "we'll do something next time".

I dumped her; and a short time later I had a 24 year old on my rug telling me she loves to swallow.

All this is very frustrating, and IMO causes things to fizzle out fast. Sex is the elephant in the room and if it's not being addressed or neglected I find it to be awkward. Also, I then unwittingly fall head-first into "provider" category. I know it's not always good to generalise, but I think it may have something to do with girls around my own age wanting to be smart about giving it up, and are seriously looking for LTRs after a few runs on the cock-carousel. Maybe others have not encountered this with girls in their 30s, but it's common for me, and I'm seriously thinking of sticking to girls in their (early) 20s.

Anybody with any experience with this kind of behaviour?

Yes, I've dealt with this and it gets worse when women hit their forties and their sex drives drop.

What you're probably dealing with is the "reformed whore syndrome." She dropped her pants for a lot of guys in her twenties, none worked out, and now you're gonna pay the price. This is a neurotic quirk of women who have been single too long and maybe feel like they ran up their "number count" too much.

Here is how bad it gets. Before I was married, I used to sleep with a woman who was about 24-25 and would do anything with me, at practically anytime. She remained single while I was married. After my divorce I caught up with her. Two decades later, she was like a totally different person.

You'd think that being in her forties, she'd realize her SMV had plummeted and she'd give it up easier. It was the opposite. She was now an uptight prude who avoided sex and judged anyone who had it. I started calling her The Church Lady and we stopped speaking soon after.

Such women are failures when it comes to using sex as a mating strategy. They failed to snare the husband with it in their twenties, and they're now scaring off older men by behaving like nuns in their thirties and forties.

Another reason to go for younger women -- if one was needed.

Post: #5

Sometimes when we have success using our standard game, experiencing this type of resistance can throw you for a loop. Especially if that success has come with hotter girls than the current one you're trying to lay.

I noted you mentioned a 4th date, but no mention of dropping bait or isolating her previously? Netflix date? Cooking together? Let me show you my pet turtle? Is she one of the types that's hellbent on spending time in public? If so, bad sign.

You definitely have to be careful with using the reverse psychology bit with some chicks, you can literally talk your way out of the pussy

Post: #6

(01-05-2015 09:01 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 08:42 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  This is an interesting conundrum I find myself in yet again.

I've been on 4 dates now with a girl who is withholding sex. Strong make-outs with LMR (pushing hand away from erogenous zones) and her claiming that it was "my idea anyway to wait five dates". Disclaimer: I say this to most women on the first date, part irony, and reverse psychology. I usually bang women on Date 2 if not on Date 1. The issue with this current girl is one I am facing frequently with girls in their 30s. I am 36. Girls in their early 20s and MILFs in their 40s are sexual, affectionate, and will jump on my dick without any pressure.

I faced the same obstacles with the last girl around my own age I dated. Though she gave it up on date 3 (after much seduction), I was aghast at facing further LMR on subsequent dates. "You need to behave yourself" she would say or "we'll do something next time".

I dumped her; and a short time later I had a 24 year old on my rug telling me she loves to swallow.

All this is very frustrating, and IMO causes things to fizzle out fast. Sex is the elephant in the room and if it's not being addressed or neglected I find it to be awkward. Also, I then unwittingly fall head-first into "provider" category. I know it's not always good to generalise, but I think it may have something to do with girls around my own age wanting to be smart about giving it up, and are seriously looking for LTRs after a few runs on the cock-carousel. Maybe others have not encountered this with girls in their 30s, but it's common for me, and I'm seriously thinking of sticking to girls in their (early) 20s.

Anybody with any experience with this kind of behaviour?

Yes, I've dealt with this and it gets worse when women hit their forties and their sex drives drop.

What you're probably dealing with is the "reformed whore syndrome." She dropped her pants for a lot of guys in her twenties, none worked out, and now you're gonna pay the price. This is a neurotic quirk of women who have been single too long and maybe feel like they ran up their "number count" too much.

Here is how bad it gets. Before I was married, I used to sleep with a woman who was about 24-25 and would do anything with me, at practically anytime. She remained single while I was married. After my divorce I caught up with her. Two decades later, she was like a totally different person.

You'd think that being in her forties, she'd realize her SMV had plummeted and she'd give it up easier. It was the opposite. She was now an uptight prude who avoided sex and judged anyone who had it. I started calling her The Church Lady and we stopped speaking soon after.

What we're dealing with here is women who simply are failures when it comes to using sex as a mating strategy. They failed to snare the husband with it in their twenties, and they're now scaring off older men by behaving like nuns in their thirties and forties.

Another reason to go for younger women -- if one was needed.

Thanks. You have just confirmed what I had suspected. But in my opinion women who are just as sexual as women in their 20s are women in their 40s (I dabble in this age group from time to time, if they're in good shape, and with me being an equal opportunities employer). The women in their 40s who are overtly sexual and promiscuous are the ones who have just left a LTR/marriage and are making up for lost time. I have as little problem sliding their panties off as I do the 20 year olds.

Single and/or never married women in their 30s? Forget about it. The Reformed Whore Syndrome is no doubt a real phenomenon.

Post: #7

My experience has mirrored DOBA's

Women wait to get into their 30's and decide they want to be selective, or will flat out take the stance of being wined and dined

You have to go direct on these reformed sluts; their trigger urge is to fuck the next handsome guy who demonstrates some alpha, take charge qualities. The longer you wait around without letting her know the deal, the more bored she will become finally culminating in the closed legs stasis

They know what the next logical step is, so sometimes you have to go direct with your intentions or totally withdraw yourself

Post: #8

(01-05-2015 09:26 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  The longer you wait around without letting her know the deal, the more bored she will become finally culminating in the closed legs stasis They know what the next logical step is, so sometimes you have to go direct with your intentions or totally withdraw yourself

While I go as direct with them as I do any girl of any age, when I hit the LMR once or twice, my confidence stumbles, we go on a few more sanitised ice-cream dates, my sex-vibe takes a hammering, she loses interest fast, and then goes ghost.

It's really illogical, self-defeating behaviour on their part.

Post: #9

When girls disqualify themselves, you just have to move forward

It's their loss, because of their hang ups they lose out on a lot of quality guys in their attempts to have things on their terms

What helps me keep my sanity is knowing that even the best fisherman casting the widest net won't get every fish coming down stream - besides some of the fish are rotten

Post: #10

I encountered this once with a mid-thirties chick. Normally I wouldn't bother, but she was very attractive in several ways. Even though we hit it off, she would do everything to avoid coming back to my place. She had all sorts of excuses and reasons and just wouldn't budge, even though she was passing every "go signal" I had.

Basically you have to accept that some girls have problems, and you just have to let them go. The problems could be anything - you just don't know whats up. Knowing when a girl has problems versus when she's just not ready yet is part of the game - specifically "screening". It gets better with experience as long as you analyze your failures.

Post: #11

There will also be members who read this and say why are you bothering with 30+ uptight, prudes when you are successfully shagging hot 20-somethings

As a guy in his mid-30's it sounds like you have already located the proverbial sweet spot

On the other hand, I do understand you equal opportunity approach to an extent

Variety is the spice of life

Post: #12

I find that the average age of girls I date is somewhere around 30, and I'm 24. I wish I could bang more girls in their early twenties, but this is the reality for me right now. In contrast to what you wrote, they virtually never give me LMR. It's likely so easy for me because a girl who's 30 knows that there's no way a serious relationship is going to develop between her and someone my age. Half the work is already done for me.

At your age, obviously the situation is different. They are probably looking to lockdown a guy who is more or less exactly where you are in life. As others have said, they've only recently stepped off the cock carousel, or perhaps more accurately been kicked off of it by the harsh reality of their rapidly diminishing SMV. Now they're dazed and confused by this new world where wanton disregard for reality has consequences. This explains a lot of their irrationality.

In my opinion you can help your own cause by trying to subtly steer your conversations with them during the dates towards sex. Off the top of my head you could say something like you're relieved to be dating an older women (even if this isn't true) because younger girls are so sexually uncomfortable (also might not be true). When she asks what you mean be vague and say something about how you don't want to go into your dating history because you're that type of guy that prefers to focus on the here-and-now, but there was a younger girl you dated (or a few younger girls), and she was "really great, there was a strong connection but not that instant chemistry that tells me we can work together." Leave it at that and dodge any further inquiries. This is a DHV because you bring up dating younger women, which, whether or not she admits it, are more valuable than her by definition. It'll get her hamster spinning because it also implies that, in spite of younger women's higher value, you're giving older women a chance, so she better not blow it. Lastly, she'll be worried that you don't feel that "instant chemistry" with her either.

Obviously, bring this up on the first date, not on the fourth date where it'll be too late and also be too obvious that you're trying to direct her thoughts. At the end of the first date, proceed as normal and get her to the bedroom. Try to break through all LMR, but if it doesn't work, all of a sudden you should effect a troubled (but not disappointed or butthurt) disposition as if you feel like something with a lot of potential tragically slipped between your fingers. From then on until you say goodbye, act as if you're trying to hide that you were mildly hurt.

Hopefully she'll get the hint and put out on date two. Nothing wrong with that. My two cents.

Post: #13

(01-05-2015 10:29 AM)RealityCheck Wrote:  I find that the average age of girls I date is somewhere around 30, and I'm 24. I wish I could bang more girls in their early twenties, but this is the reality for me right now. In contrast to what you wrote, they virtually never give me LMR. It's likely so easy for me because a girl who's 30 knows that there's no way a serious relationship is going to develop between her and someone my age. Half the work is already done for me.

At your age, obviously the situation is different. They are probably looking to lockdown a guy who is more or less exactly where you are in life. As others have said, they've only recently stepped off the cock carousel, or perhaps more accurately been kicked off of it by the harsh reality of their rapidly diminishing SMV. Now they're dazed and confused by this new world where wanton disregard for reality has consequences. This explains a lot of their irrationality.

In my opinion you can help your own cause by trying to subtly steer your conversations with them during the dates towards sex. Off the top of my head you could say something like you're relieved to be dating an older women (even if this isn't true) because younger girls are so sexually uncomfortable (also might not be true). When she asks what you mean be vague and say something about how you don't want to go into your dating history because you're that type of guy that prefers to focus on the here-and-now, but there was a younger girl you dated (or a few younger girls), and she was "really great, there was a strong connection but not that instant chemistry that tells me we can work together." Leave it at that and dodge any further inquiries. This is a DHV because you bring up dating younger women, which, whether or not she admits it, are more valuable than her by definition. It'll get her hamster spinning because it also implies that, in spite of younger women's higher value, you're giving older women a chance, so she better not blow it. Lastly, she'll be worried that you don't feel that "instant chemistry" with her either.

Obviously, bring this up on the first date, not on the fourth date where it'll be too late and also be too obvious that you're trying to direct her thoughts. At the end of the first date, proceed as normal and get her to the bedroom. Try to break through all LMR, but if it doesn't work, all of a sudden you should effect a troubled (but not disappointed or butthurt) disposition as if you feel like something with a lot of potential tragically slipped between your fingers. From then on until you say goodbye, act as if you're trying to hide that you were mildly hurt.

Hopefully she'll get the hint and put out on date two. Nothing wrong with that. My two cents.

"I find that the average age of girls I date is somewhere around 30, and I'm 24."

Why?!?!

When I was 24, I was dating (ahem) teenagers, including the interns who worked at the newspaper where I had a job. I was also the prince of "mall game" (search my posts on it). And life was good.

Then I succumbed to pressure to "grow up." Some of that was self-imposed; some of it was external. I not only starting dating a woman in her thirties, but married her.

As such, I went from a young guy with a soft harem of nubile babes to the miserable, cynical, angry SOB everyone has come to know here.

Whatever you're doing, you should change it. The window to date younger women is going to close soon enough. Enjoy it now. I wish someone had told me this. There's a reason Rod Stewart's sad lament about an older woman is one of the most popular songs of all time. Listen and try not to live this out as some of us did.

Post: #14

I understand what you're saying Days of Broken Arrows, and honestly I wish that I was getting with younger girls more regularly. Maybe I'm making excuses, but I live in Israel and the sexual culture here is different. Young Israeli chicks are sexually closed obnoxious little shits that make me want to roundhouse kick them in the face every time I talk to them.

The reason that they're sexually closed is that, for whatever reason, there's a much weaker hookup culture here than in America. In America, a lot of girls turns 18, go to college, join a sorority and slut it up for a few years while they party on mommy and daddy's dime. Here, they join the army which is an institution that, unlike American universities, doesn't unofficially reinforce a hook up culture. There's also a stronger sense of family here that makes girls more self-conscious about exploring their sexuality.

It's not until an Israeli girls turns about 25 that she sees a few of her friends get married and maybe realizes that she's not getting any younger and that she might want to explore her sexuality while the window is still open. That's where I come in. I by no means focus only on older girls, I'll hit on whoever's at the bar, but the prospects that pull through are time and again almost only the older ones. They're also a lot more chill and easier to connect with in terms of personality.

Seriously though, I believe I said this in my data sheet on Tel Aviv, young Israelis between about 18-23 are insufferable gremlins, and prude to boot. They're stereotyped as being stunningly attractive, which is true a lot of the time, but pursuing them is a nose-to-grindstone process that doesn't really yield many results anyway.

I'm surprised to hear you say that it becomes harder to get younger chicks for a man in his thirties. I'd always figured that as your value increases vis-à-vis your age, so would your ability to pull women in their prime improve. I understand that maybe it's tough for a guy in his thirties to pull an 18-year-old, but I've been under the impression from certain posters on this board that a guy that age with good game, fitness, bank roll, etc, can pull 8s and above that are in the 22-26 age range, which is more are less when women are physically in their peak (maybe 26 is a bit generous) so that's good enough for me. I don't feel a strong need to go much younger than that. You're saying this isn't the case?

Post: #15

RealityCheck, how is dating 30 year olds your reality when you are only 24? I am 29 and only 1 of the past dozen women I have been with was older than me. As DOBA says, get it while the gettin is good. Heck, Krauser is 39 and pulling 18 year olds. Mind you, he is an extremely talented player and optimizes his talents by gaming in the FSU overseas. How can you blame him though? Would you rather have busted 35 yr old American/British pussy or 18 yr old Latvian pussy? Anyone who says the former is a white knight mangina and should be flogged with a hose.

Heck, if you'll discount Krauser, then look at Giovanny. He is in San Fran. He is in his late 30s and pulling college girls aged 18-22.

Dating younger women in America is possible! If you can tame the American shrew, you can tame any broad on the planet.

Do you live on the Island of Misfit Carousel Riders?

Even if you were strictly running social circle game, the women you would be dating would at least be in your age range (presumably friends from college your age now). If you were doing online dating, you can select which women you want to date. If you were doing night game, you could select environments where there are younger women i.e. college bars. If you were doing daygame, you could select an environment where there are younger women i.e. college campuses.

Not to be harsh or call you out, but something is not right about your situation. You shouldn't have problems dating women 18-24 when you are only 24.

Post: #16

(01-05-2015 08:42 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  This is an interesting conundrum I find myself in yet again.

I've been on 4 dates now with a girl who is withholding sex. Strong make-outs with LMR (pushing hand away from erogenous zones) and her claiming that it was "my idea anyway to wait five dates". Disclaimer: I say this to most women on the first date, part irony, and reverse psychology. I usually bang women on Date 2 if not on Date 1. The issue with this current girl is one I am facing frequently with girls in their 30s. I am 36. Girls in their early 20s and MILFs in their 40s are sexual, affectionate, and will jump on my dick without any pressure.

I faced the same obstacles with the last girl around my own age I dated. Though she gave it up on date 3 (after much seduction), I was aghast at facing further LMR on subsequent dates. "You need to behave yourself" she would say or "we'll do something next time".

I dumped her; and a short time later I had a 24 year old on my rug telling me she loves to swallow.

All this is very frustrating, and IMO causes things to fizzle out fast. Sex is the elephant in the room and if it's not being addressed or neglected I find it to be awkward. Also, I then unwittingly fall head-first into "provider" category. I know it's not always good to generalise, but I think it may have something to do with girls around my own age wanting to be smart about giving it up, and are seriously looking for LTRs after a few runs on the cock-carousel. Maybe others have not encountered this with girls in their 30s, but it's common for me, and I'm seriously thinking of sticking to girls in their (early) 20s.

Anybody with any experience with this kind of behaviour?

My opinion is that its related to dating girls/women your own age. A much higher age gap, older or younger...especially where you span different generations (80s cartoons vs 90s pokemon) because there is less to relate and talk about that fucking seems to be more 'on the table' than the LMR bullshit, especially because if you are outside of her generation, its less likely she'll be seen with you on fb etc and judged by her peers.

this applies to cattle rustler and his milfs and the late 40s dudes and their daddy's girls equally.

Post: #17

+1 RealityCheck

It's almost impossible to pick girls in their early 20s if the culture is against. They open up in their thirties-fourties though since society looks at them as marriage-failure and they try to enjoy some sex before their clock runs.

I don't think this is very different from US girls.

In the US, girls that slut it up are not judged until they are 35 and not married.

In a strict-culture country, the girls are judged from the first counts and their early 20s. So they are super-careful and won't open up because they don't want to lose their honour.

So adjust your game per the conditions.

Post: #18

(01-05-2015 11:24 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  RealityCheck, how is dating 30 year olds your reality when you are only 24? I am 29 and only 1 of the past dozen women I have been with was older than me. As DOBA says, get it while the gettin is good. Heck, Krauser is 39 and pulling 18 year olds. Mind you, he is an extremely talented player and optimizes his talents by gaming in the FSU overseas. How can you blame him though? Would you rather have busted 35 yr old American/British pussy or 18 yr old Latvian pussy? Anyone who says the former is a white knight mangina and should be flogged with a hose.

Heck, if you'll discount Krauser, then look at Giovanny. He is in San Fran. He is in his late 30s and pulling college girls aged 18-22.

Dating younger women in America is possible! If you can tame the American shrew, you can tame any broad on the planet.

Do you live on the Island of Misfit Carousel Riders?

Even if you were strictly running social circle game, the women you would be dating would at least be in your age range (presumably friends from college your age now). If you were doing online dating, you can select which women you want to date. If you were doing night game, you could select environments where there are younger women i.e. college bars. If you were doing daygame, you could select an environment where there are younger women i.e. college campuses.

Not to be harsh or call you out, but something is not right about your situation. You shouldn't have problems dating women 18-24 when you are only 24.

I might have an answer for you. I live in Tunis which is an arabic/islamic country. Young girls are open about dating (and maybe making out) but they'll defend their virginity because they'll be judged badly by society. Also a girl here is expected to find a man by 23-25. 28 is too too (really too) late for finding a husband.

So they are husband shopping by their early twenties. and gaming them for real bangs is only possible after 27-28.

Post: #19

(01-05-2015 11:24 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  Dating younger women in America is possible! If you can tame the American shrew, you can tame any broad on the planet.

I take it that you didn't get a chance to read my reply since what you wrote was posted only a few minutes after I what I wrote, but I don't live in America I live in Israel. I'd say to you the same thing that I said to Days of Broken Arrows. You also seem to confirm what I thought at the end of my post about older guys being able to score with younger girls if they have their shit together, so I'm not in a hurry if my current environment doesn't allow for it. I have a move planned for sometime in the next few years.

Come to think of it, I was briefly in New York over the summer and banged one chick that was 24 if I remember correctly, which is more in tune with the age range I should be hooking up with as you guys are saying. For better or worse, I don't live in America and won't for at least the next couple of years.

almohajem makes an interesting point, the "live it up years" are reversed in more conservative cultures. In America, girls go through their carousel riding phase before hitting the wall, but in Israel it seems to start post-Wall, or when the wall is looming on the horizon. Even with that, if and when Israeli chicks do decide to ride the carousel for a bit, it's usually less pronounced than in the case of American chicks, and a smaller amount of Israelis per capita ever do it to begin with.

Post: #20

RealityCheck and almohajem, it sounds like you are busy constructing a model as to 'why you cannot get young chicks'. This is just cognitive dissonance, and I exhort you to discard it. It will gain you nothing.

You should simply be working on improving your odds. Improving your attractiveness, increasing your rate of meeting new women, and honing the courtship process.
Nothing either of you have theorized about how the world works matches up with my experience, or with that of other players on this forum. I guarantee you these young chicks are getting fucked by someone, or will be before the year is out.

The 'X girls are too conservative' line is the most common form of "it's not my fault" there is. Every girl can get horny.

[Phoenix apologizes in advance for his harsh criticism]

Post: #21

This issue with 29 to 34 year olds is well known. Their depreciation curve is bending downward rapidly, and they are attempting to lock down the best deal they can get before it falls off the cliff. It's a desperate hunt for a beta provider and they play the traditional dating game to convince chumps that they are good wife material and not the hardened cock hoppers they actually are.

Best to avoid this demographic, or if you must, go for ones that are recently divorced and looking for some fresh dick .

Once they get over 35 many of them start giving up somewhat and become desperate and are happy for some male attention.

Post: #22

(01-05-2015 09:01 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(01-05-2015 08:42 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  This is an interesting conundrum I find myself in yet again.

I've been on 4 dates now with a girl who is withholding sex. Strong make-outs with LMR (pushing hand away from erogenous zones) and her claiming that it was "my idea anyway to wait five dates". Disclaimer: I say this to most women on the first date, part irony, and reverse psychology. I usually bang women on Date 2 if not on Date 1. The issue with this current girl is one I am facing frequently with girls in their 30s. I am 36. Girls in their early 20s and MILFs in their 40s are sexual, affectionate, and will jump on my dick without any pressure.

I faced the same obstacles with the last girl around my own age I dated. Though she gave it up on date 3 (after much seduction), I was aghast at facing further LMR on subsequent dates. "You need to behave yourself" she would say or "we'll do something next time".

I dumped her; and a short time later I had a 24 year old on my rug telling me she loves to swallow.

All this is very frustrating, and IMO causes things to fizzle out fast. Sex is the elephant in the room and if it's not being addressed or neglected I find it to be awkward. Also, I then unwittingly fall head-first into "provider" category. I know it's not always good to generalise, but I think it may have something to do with girls around my own age wanting to be smart about giving it up, and are seriously looking for LTRs after a few runs on the cock-carousel. Maybe others have not encountered this with girls in their 30s, but it's common for me, and I'm seriously thinking of sticking to girls in their (early) 20s.

Anybody with any experience with this kind of behaviour?

Yes, I've dealt with this and it gets worse when women hit their forties and their sex drives drop.

What you're probably dealing with is the "reformed whore syndrome." She dropped her pants for a lot of guys in her twenties, none worked out, and now you're gonna pay the price. This is a neurotic quirk of women who have been single too long and maybe feel like they ran up their "number count" too much.

Here is how bad it gets. Before I was married, I used to sleep with a woman who was about 24-25 and would do anything with me, at practically anytime. She remained single while I was married. After my divorce I caught up with her. Two decades later, she was like a totally different person.

You'd think that being in her forties, she'd realize her SMV had plummeted and she'd give it up easier. It was the opposite. She was now an uptight prude who avoided sex and judged anyone who had it. I started calling her The Church Lady and we stopped speaking soon after.

Such women are failures when it comes to using sex as a mating strategy. They failed to snare the husband with it in their twenties, and they're now scaring off older men by behaving like nuns in their thirties and forties.

Another reason to go for younger women -- if one was needed.

Strognly second that! The same shit happened to me on Friday night. And she was the total package of car crashes as in: Being a single mother from the States living with her parents, no job ( so living off welfare and alimony) getting hit by previous

Husband and preying on Beta males by requesting several months of dating before anything could happens! They say you shouldn't stick your dick in crazy, but damn she had big tities aka my ultimate downfall hehe!!! Needless to say I'll never see that bitch again! Met on Craigslist so total time invested was 1 day. Worth the L taken

Post: #23

As a 23 year old I haven't spent any time whatsoever with this demographic of women, but from time to time I'll run across similar behavior from younger girls. They say something along the lines of "I can't have sex without emotional commitment."

All this stems from a complete lack of self confidence. They think that once they give sex up, then there is little else to offer and the potential LTR material will run away once that happens.

In reality, a smart man will run in the opposite direction from any woman that tries to use sex as a bargaining chip like this. Just signs of what's to come later in the relationship.

Post: #24

It's well known women from 24-29 for the most part and much of them extend this to 35 as being the lowest value return on dating fun or sex. They qualify themselves in the marriage zone and if you have even a tiny bit of provider or boyfriend vibe they will make it tougher.

Just not worth it most of the time.

Best sex I've had with girls 24 to 35 is when I have been younger by at least a few years and I can feel strongly they don't look at me as BF material. They just want a down low sport fuck.

If the girl is my age or a bit younger and in the perceived "ok to bring home to mom and dad" it starts to suck.

Post: #25

I cannot second all of these posts enough! I'm 43 and by far the most difficult women to lay for me are those between 30 and my age, especially if they have never been married yet. I have had countless ones on my bed, my fingers knuckle deep into their pussies and when I try to escalate from there they have the mental strength of Gandhi and can cooly pull up their panties and walk away never to be seen again. Of course many of those women even refuse to come home with me in the first place. Everything about them screams bitterness, cynicism and a hardened outlook towards men and dating in general. I can also concur that women in their 20's have virtually none of this baggage and women in their mid to later 40's are almost as easy, especially if they have recently come out of a LTR and just want some no strings attached D. Every once in a while I'll pick off one in who's in her mid 30's but they're few and far between.

I'm glad this topic is being addressed as it's a very real phenomenon out there!