Post: #26

Recent pic

Post: #27

(01-04-2015 02:44 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Travelerkai are you kidding with that hellfire stuff? A rich guy has Grecian statues at his home and that means he's a pagan satanist?

From that article you linked to it sounds like boogeyman shit.

"Old man Weathers sacrifices babies on his alter in thise caves"!

I'm not sure I follow you.

I linked a wiki article on the Hellfire caves because of the notoriety of the level of debauchery that was going on in those caves at a time when society would have gasped or fainted at the idea of such activity going on. If these guys really did have sex slaves, it would be shocking much like how the activities that went on in the Hellfire caves were back in those times of the 1700s.

It has a similar parallel feel to it because the people partying in the hellfire caves were many of the powerful and elite people in England and other parts of the world at that time (such as Benjamin Franklin was known to party in there), just like the men named in the original post.

Makes sense?

Post: #28

If you're posting that article because you believe that there was always a a bunch of ridiculous rumors surrounding men's clubs then yes.

If you were doing it because you believe that these "elite" people actually do all this, then no.

Post: #29

I'm not saying these men are guilty all I did was state that this allegation reminds me of the hellfire club from the 1700s. The hellfire club was real and there is lots of historical facts written about it. You can even go on the tour and they can teach you all about it. The hellfire club was not some regular men's club or organization that you are talking about. It was a club or secret society for the super wealthy and elite to do blasphemous stuff, mock the church, have orgies, mistresses, perform seances, and have wild parties. If memory serves me correctly they even had female members at times.

Post: #30

(01-04-2015 03:41 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  I'm not saying these men are guilty all I did was state that this allegation reminds me of the hellfire club from the 1700s. The hellfire club was real and there is lots of historical facts written about it. You can even go on the tour and they can teach you all about it. The hellfire club was not some regular men's club or organization that you are talking about. It was a club or secret society for the super wealthy and elite to do blasphemous stuff, mock the church, have orgies, mistresses, perform seances, and have wild parties. If memory serves me correctly they even had female members at times.

Sounds like Eyes Wide Shut

Post: #31

(01-04-2015 02:59 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  Wow, some people here clearly are not at all familiar with this case and are just learning of it now. It has been going on for years.

Yup. I'm not familiar with all the details. Only heard about it the other day when she named Prince Andrew in court documents.

Quote:This has nothing to do with the college rape hysteria, false rape accusations, it is not at all a situation like that nearly 18 year old woman who knew what she was getting into and got with Berlusconi, or other feminist crap.
This is about someone whose particular fetish is Ephebophilia, meaning he likes adolescent girls.
Also, the fact that a 17 year old smiles in a single picture, and has been given compensation, doesn't mean she is just some dumb whore who got paid and enjoyed it, and now has second thoughts years later. She was preyed upon starting at 15. And call me old fashioned, but that's how I see it.

OK.

And maybe that's what happened. We don't know.

But her story is deeply suspicious, on the face of it.

It's not hard to believe a lecherous billionaire has a taste for young girls. It's not hard to believe he might have a few close friends with the same tastes. It's not even that hard to believe Prince Andrew might be a dirty old man.

You know what is hard to believe though? "Sex slavery". "Sex trafficking". And the claim that this one girl was fucked by all sorts of world leaders.

From what facts we do know, the sex slavery allegation seems to be bullshit. Likewise "trafficking". How is Epstein supposed to have taken her to New York, London, and his private island - over the course of three years - against her will?

Did he use some sort of mind control device? Kidnap her family? Transport her in the special sex slave dungeon all good airlines have in first class?

She claims Prince Andrew "abused" her. Well, why are we only hearing this now? Why isn't she raising a criminal complaint against Andrew? Why isn't she suing him?

Why, indeed.

And who the fuck are all these "numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well known Prime Minister, and other world leaders" she claims she was "sex-trafficked" to?

Name them, file a formal complaint with the police, or it didn't happen.

You have a point though, this is not like the college rape allegations. This feeds into a different moral panic / urban legend: the idea that the rich and powerful are commonly into weird top secret sex orgies like in Eyes Wide Shut.


Where's Dershowitz?

Think about that notion for a moment. It would mean that huge numbers of the most powerful men in society - many of whom are paranoid and hate each others' guts - are willing to risk everything they have in order to get sloppy seconds from some other rich guy's "sex slave".

These are men at the top end of the sexual marketplace, with tons of options. Plenty of girls they can fuck with nobody else knowing about it. The highest quality discreet callgirls available at their convenience if they want to pay for it. Employees and flunkies and au pairs they can boff in the privacy of their own homes.

Do we really think this girl's pussy played host to the wrinkly middle-aged dicks of "numerous" world leaders, presidents, and a well-known Prime Minister?

Is her snatch some sort of Bermuda Triangle for the rich and famous?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So far the only thing that has been proven is that Epstein likes teenage girls, and he's friends with Prince Andrew. And that Epstein is a billionaire, which means he's a very juicy target for ambulance-chasing lawyers.

Post: #32

Don't always assume that just because these people are so rich and powerful that they are alpha minded in regards to women and don't have freaky vices or fetishes. Pussy has ruined many a man for as long as the earth has spun. It can be a great equalizer in ways. Just because you are fully cognizant of what their SMV is, doesn't mean that they do


Other than that great post.

Post: #33

100% guilty.

Post: #34

(01-04-2015 03:57 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Don't always assume that just because these people are so rich and powerful that they are alpha minded in regards to women and don't have freaky vices or fetishes. Pussy has ruined many a man for as long as the earth has spun. It can be a great equalizer in ways. Just because you are fully cognizant of what their SMV is, doesn't mean that they do

Definitely mate.

It's not her stories about having sex that I find hard to believe. It's the claim that she was a "sex slave" (she admits she was given a lot of cash and bought £5,000 designer handbags and the like, by the way) and "trafficked" to numerous "world leaders" that stretches credulity.

Note that she still hasn't raised any kind of criminal or civil legal action against Prince Andrew. If you're a cynical sort, and I am, you might think this is a calculated ploy to get media attention (which it has) in order to publicly humiliate Epstein into paying her a nice fat settlement to stave off any further revelations. If Epstein has been holding out on them, they might well think that noising up his famous friends is a good way of putting pressure on the guy. Lot of money to be made there, her lawyers are probably expecting to make at least a couple of million each.

Those revelations wouldn't need to be true to be embarrassing for the guy at a time when he's probably trying to put his life back together after his conviction. What's he going to do? Sue her back? That would just make things worse for him.

Like the Bill Cosby allegations, it's inherently suspicious when people accuse rich and famous people years after the event. Doesn't mean the allegations are definitely false, but I tend to believe a man's innocent till proven guilty, unless there's credible evidence presented to the contrary.

Also note this girl got married 12 years ago. What's she going to tell her husband? "I gobbled rich men's cocks for money and Jimmy Choos", or "I was a poor innocent damsel and that evil billionaire made me do it!"?

Post: #35

Organized child sex abuse is a real thing. It isn't a conspiracy theory, we know that it happens:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/...ord-warner

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/0...EI20140707

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ctive.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/per...ls-1546290

Also look into the disturbing accounts of "The Finders", an organized group of child sex traffickers:

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/02/08/us/inq...-cult.html

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Finders_Keepers

There has been a ridiculous amount of smoke over the years regarding organized child sex abuse rings. There is certainly fire there, the only question is how much fire. I'm sure there are a lot of bullshitters and scam artists making false claims about having been child sex slaves (most of whom seem to be selling books about it), but given that we know this sort of thing happens, some of them are bound to be telling the truth. Frankly, I'm more inclined to believe someone who makes their accusations in court against specific persons rather than in book form against shadowy organizations.

As for why this sort of thing goes on, I think it's important to differentiate between two sorts of closely related allegations, the first being a sort of ritualized (usually Satanic) child sex abuse, and the second being more general prostitution of teenage girls.

In the first case, ritual sexual abuse of this kind would be used by a group to enforce loyalty among its members. It would be impossible to join the group without actively participating in such rituals, and after having done so the individual would be complicit in the crime, and thus unable to expose it without implicating themselves. If this sort of thing does exist (I am not willing to rule it out, but on the other hand I don't believe a lot of hysterical stories about it either) it is probably limited in scale and highly concentrated among a rather small group.

The prostitution of teenage girls is probably much more widespread, and engaged in simply out of lust and carnal pleasure rather than for darker purposes. However, it strikes me as likely that underage prostitution could be used as a sort of gateway or litmus test to see how potential inductees into the elite circles (which use ritual child abuse to ensure loyalty) would react to being exposed to that sort of thing.

I could easily see how this sort of thing could escalate with rich and powerful men over time. It starts out by being introduced into a social circle where high end prostitutes are commonly used and passed around. There are probably a lot of guys like Epstein who can provide willing prostitutes for rich men. That then progresses to guys wanting younger girls, 16, 17, 18 - I wouldn't call these men pedophiles by any means, but this is the point where they begin to operate outside the law. Maybe one night the guy ends up with a girl who is 13 or 14. Does he send her away or get down to business? A guy who chooses to fornicate with an obviously underage girl becomes compromised and open to blackmail, and also marks himself as morally and ethically lacking, and thus likely to be open to engage in further sexual perversion, opening himself up to even more possibility for blackmail and control.

Also, I doubt most of the teenage girls involved in this sort of thing are "sex slaves" in the sense that they are kidnapped, shackled and blindfolded and such. More likely they are just girls with fucked up childhoods who are given money and drugs and passed around by a high-end pimp to other wealthy, connected men. It's definitely fucked up and illegal for 14-17 year old girls to be trafficked in this manner, but it's a very different animal than ritual Satanic abuse. However, as I said, I would not at all be surprised if the two were connected, with underage prostitution being used as a litmus test to determine which men were amenable to engaging in more disturbing behavior, or simply as a tool for blackmail.

Post: #36

It is well known Silvio Berlusconi had young prostitutes/gold diggers at his parties and half the french national soccer team banged this teen prostitute, then 16 years old, in this picture over 18 though:



I think teenage prostitution is a lot more common in elite circles than what most people think. That does not make it morally right of course and grooming is disgusting and despicable.

In the end, I think the average joe and jane would be appalled if they knew half what the elite are up to at their parties and old boys clubs.

As Scorpion wrote, this is magnitudes of perceived 'rape culture', but we're stilling waiting for Jezebel and mainstream media, who hasn't in the past seen any need for evidence before ruining people publicly.

One set of rules for the slaves, one for their masters.

Post: #37

I don't get the logic travelerkai, you're saying that we should suspect them of all this stuff simply because they're rich?

How about the reverse which is more likely, they don't need to traffic in sex and whatever else because they are rich.

I still don't find the hellfire club stuff credible. Its probably closer to these guys had wild parties for the era and the rumor mill turned it into satanic rituals.

You're talking about a time when people weren't the most liberal with their beliefs.

Hell they probably spread salacious rumors themselves for a laugh.

Anyway, I doubt the Prince did anything more than bang a girl sent to his room.
This chick was clearly into it and later decided (after she blew all her money and everyone lost interest) that she was taken advantage of.

Post: #38

(01-04-2015 05:02 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I don't get the logic travelerkai, you're saying that we should suspect them of all this stuff simply because they're rich?

How about the reverse which is more likely, they don't need to traffic in sex and whatever else because they are rich.

I still don't find the hellfire club stuff credible. Its probably closer to these guys had wild parties for the era and the rumor mill turned it into satanic rituals.

You're talking about a time when people weren't the most liberal with their beliefs.

Hell they probably spread salacious rumors themselves for a laugh.

Anyway, I doubt the Prince did anything more than bang a girl sent to his room.
This chick was clearly into it and later decided (after she blew all her money and everyone lost interest) that she was taken advantage of.

I'm not sure how you are concluding she was clearly into it. Presumably you are talking about the part where she was 17 and well indoctrinated into the whore lifestyle and being flown around to service Epstein's rich friends, and likely accepting cash and gifts.
I think it's debatable what her motives and mindset were at that point. Personally, I think it's not fair to judge her at that point, considering what came before she was 17. So, even if there is some debate about her being "clearly into it" when she was 17...what about when she was 14 or 15 and Epstein started grooming her for his harem? By all reports he was banging her at 15, probably getting her drunk and coked up too...is it your opinion that a 15 year old can reasonably agree to that and there is no manipulation or criminality in it?

Post: #39

I remember when Epstien first got accused. That scumbag Dershowitz flew down to FL with a team who immediately began to do all they could to discredit and intimidate the accuser(s) into dropping their claims. I am surprised (but pleased) Epstien ever saw the inside of a jail cell. Of course if he were a major GOP contributor instead of a DNC money man, he'd still be rotting away inside.

Regardless of what anyone thinks age of consent laws should or should not be, he broke the law. I can only hope he and others like him get what they deserve.

Edit - still nothing from the recent reports out of Hollywood where gay producers essentially made a sport of passing around young boys at their pool parties. There again, we have victims and perps who don't fit the established template. Just can't have those kinds of factual distractions to ruin the SJW narrative.

Post: #40

(01-04-2015 05:02 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I don't get the logic travelerkai, you're saying that we should suspect them of all this stuff simply because they're rich?

How about the reverse which is more likely, they don't need to traffic in sex and whatever else because they are rich.

I still don't find the hellfire club stuff credible. Its probably closer to these guys had wild parties for the era and the rumor mill turned it into satanic rituals.


You're talking about a time when people weren't the most liberal with their beliefs.

Hell they probably spread salacious rumors themselves for a laugh.

Anyway, I doubt the Prince did anything more than bang a girl sent to his room.
This chick was clearly into it and later decided (after she blew all her money and everyone lost interest) that she was taken advantage of.

No I said nothing about suspecting anyone of anything at all. I just thought this accusation on these elite guys reminded me of the Hellfire Club. Just a strange kind of historic parallel. If it ends up being true that is.

Believe what you want, but there are many history books that go over the Hellfire Club at great length. You really cannot argue against historical accounts and factual evidence.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1...lfire+club

Of course the 1700s were not a time where sexually liberal, atheist, and anti-Christian ideas were accepted in the general public. Nor are concepts like sexual slaves in today's atmosphere. Prostitution is still a bad thing in our American society as well.

According to the stuff Steve dug up it looks like an monetary transaction arraignment from the beginning and looks alot like an extortion attempt to get more money so I can see that point as well.

Post: #41

I have been reading about this stuff for well over a decade, this shouldn't be news to anyone. Even in some movies they showcase this kind of stuff, do you really think that last scene in the movie Taken doesn't happen in real life!!!!
He isn't the first royal or the last to indulge in this sort of behaviour. He is trying to deny he had sex with this girl but yet there is a picture showing him with his arm around her. No, I am not basing my opinion of that one picture.
His nickname back in the day was Randy Andy, he was connected with a porn star Koo Stark.

Post: #42

(01-04-2015 05:00 PM)berserk Wrote:  It is well known Silvio Berlusconi had young prostitutes/gold diggers at his parties and half the french national soccer team banged this teen prostitute, then 16 years old, in this picture over 18 though:

Post: #43

Law & Order: SVU did an episode clearly based on Jeffrey Epstein. Too bad the only writeup I can find is from Gawker. Figures they'd like that show.

Post: #44

For those outside of the U.K, it has to be mentioned that there has been a flood of sex scandals and other degenerate stuff hitting the headlines; involving higher ups in the establishment, houses of parliament, royal family circles. This goes beyond SJW nonsense, as there have been a lot of claims directed towards pedophile rings and god knows what.

Unfortunately the token SJW and people with personal vendettas will come out of the woodwork to hitch a ride off all these scandals being unearthed. Surprisingly enough a lot of conspiracy theorists, such as David Icke, actually went in depth and tried to bring this stuff up years back. Now it has actually come out, everyone seems to be rather quiet about it. Probably too disturbing to discuss.

Post: #45

I think if your mind rebels at the idea that the some among the true elite of this world (we're talking the top 0.01%, not the 1%) don't do things like this, you haven't quite got a grasp on reality.

Have you heard about how pedophile rings work? Evil fuckers passing children around? They do it and on a global scale, and we know from the times they have been busted.

It's no stretch that guys of high position who have more normal tastes (i.e. are into young women) work out ways to get their rocks off.

Billionaires, princes and politicians can't act like rock stars and have a line-up outside their hotel rooms. They have their buddies like Epstein and Jimmy Saville, the "fixers" of this world, who work their way up the ranks by discreetly supplying girls, drugs, boys, whatever to the elite. Heck the Sultan of Brunei and Gulf Arab ruling families have full-time scouts going around the world finding "models". Then Mr Euro Bureaucrat flies to Singapore, private plane to Brunei, gets his rocks off, and a while later the Sultan gets another million-dollar investment from the European Union.

Post: #46

Sooner or later, a man falsely accused of rape will go on all out attack against his accusers. Pray it's Alan Dershowitz.

Post: #47

(01-04-2015 07:16 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  Sooner or later, a man falsely accused of rape will go on all out attack against his accusers. Pray it's Alan Dershowitz.

I'm not a big Dershowitz supporter.
He's sort of like Cheney and the other chicken hawks.
He is a pro torture Zionist who would probably shit himself at the first sign of any sort of physical confrontation, let alone military service.
I'm also guessing he is guilty as hell, and right now is hoping that Epstein lived up to his part of the bargain and destroyed any recordings of him banging underage girls or rimming trannies. His ardent defense of Epstein in the criminal proceedings was probably in no small part born of self interest. So for now, for him, its DENY DENY DENY, and hope like hell there's no solid evidence.

Post: #48

(01-04-2015 03:50 PM)SteveMcMahon Wrote:  And who the fuck are all these "numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well known Prime Minister, and other world leaders" she claims she was "sex-trafficked" to?

Didn't think he had it in him!

Post: #49

(01-04-2015 07:47 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  I'm not a big Dershowitz supporter.
I'm also guessing he is guilty as hell, and right now is hoping that Epstein lived up to his part of the bargain and destroyed any recordings of him banging underage girls or rimming trannies.

I tend to agree with this...

This whole incident raises some interesting questions to ponder, on the intersection of wealth, power, status, and sexual opportunity.

I get the sense that high-profile celebrities move in different worlds than the average person. They have a level of sexual opportunism that most of us can't even dream of. Besides this, they are petitioned almost nightly by aspiring bed-mates. The fact that some of them might be underage probably never even factors into the equation.

So it's easy for me to see how something like this could happen.

Wealth and power only provides heightened opportunities to indulge the sexual proclivities that already exist.

I suspect that these guys did indulge themselves. Whether anything will come of it is another matter.

Post: #50

(01-04-2015 02:59 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  Wow, some people here clearly are not at all familiar with this case and are just learning of it now. It has been going on for years.
This has nothing to do with the college rape hysteria, false rape accusations, it is not at all a situation like that nearly 18 year old woman who knew what she was getting into and got with Berlusconi, or other feminist crap.
This is about someone whose particular fetish is Ephebophilia, meaning he likes adolescent girls.
Also, the fact that a 17 year old smiles in a single picture, and has been given compensation, doesn't mean she is just some dumb whore who got paid and enjoyed it, and now has second thoughts years later. She was preyed upon starting at 15. And call me old fashioned, but that's how I see it.
I mean, what the fuck? I'm somewhat callous, and definitely have some loose morals...but no way would I approve of my 15 year old sister or daughter getting seduced by a middle aged billionaire and then whored out to his friends. 15 year olds are incredibly immature and young.
Do any of you really think this is somehow ok?

I am sort of on the fence on this issue:


It seems that in history the AOC is lower and maturity occurred at earlier ages. In ancient Greece,Rome and Egypt it was not considered wrong. Yet in our current day and age those things are beyond the pale. Though such teenagers will be married at such ages.

In even more traditional and tribal societies. Menarche and Puberty in girls and pubic hair for a man was when they transitioned into adulthood which was accompanied by their corresponding initiation ceremonies that mark that transition after which they are of marriageable age.

Its only when the 19th century came about when attitudes changed and your old fashioned sentiment came into being.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_cons..._attitudes

You are not that old fashioned