Post: #1

I hate flaking, and I'm always trying to find ways to reduce it, but sometimes it just happens without any logical explanation.

Something I've noticed when I ask girls out is the usual "Yo te aviso!" or "I'll let you know!", english.

It usually goes along a nice text conversation, then I tell them to 'lets go [place] this week', they then drop the line I previously wrote.

I want to learn some good ways to handle this thing properly, and not get flaked on. Since she's the one who agreed on "hitting me up for confirmation" I never usually talk to them until they do so, the problem is, alot of time they don't. I figure, if she's interested, she will, or should hit me back, asking her again would come off as too needy.

Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe I should throw a reminder or something?

Would love to know how the forum manages this sort of shit and manage to get the night out, making the possibility for the notch still open.

Post: #2

I call this "preemptive flaking" and I find that it's very common, usually with very cute (but not hot) chicks. The super-hot chicks will just lie to you and flake on you, no hesitation. They're used to it. The very cute ones still have some manners and decency and try to "let you off easy."

The way I've dealt with this is to simply say, "forget you then" or "girl, please. Don't try to bullshit a bullshitter." And give them a dismissive gesture (at least when it happens in person). That always prompts a surprised look or a question, where I can elaborate on my call-out. I add something like, "that's the line I use on chicks all the time." Basically, you steal her frame and DHV. I've salvaged a few like this, but I can't say that it's more than half.

Over text, I'm not sure what the hell I would do. I'm sure it's happened to me. I'd probably ignore it, let the original day pass, and re-initiate. That may be a lost cause, though. To me, "I'll let you know" might as well be "fuck off" with a smile.

Post: #3

Save 3-4 of those up and then invite them all to meet you while you are already out somewhere.

Post: #4

I've dealt with this exact line before here in college, specifically this past fall with a black girl I was pursuing. She is quite passionate about Latin American history (she was a Caribbean American but traveled and lived in Central and South America extensively, practically fluent in both Portuguese and Spanish), so perhaps it isn't a coincidence that she often used this exact same line as your latina.

Anyway, I got it both in person and via text/phone several times, and only once did she actually follow through and "let me know"(she was "too busy" that time, of course). Being the dutiful beta I was at the time, I often took her at her word, but I realize now that this was just foolish. "I'll let you know", as far as I'm concerned, is a flake. I made the mistake of letting her use it several times and then recontacting her later on after she neglected to get back to me. I somehow caught feelings for this girl badly, so I was, in my defence, not quite myself.

What would I do with what I know now? One strike, you're out. You need to show very little patience for this type of behavior. She says "I'll let you know". Give her a little space to do this prior to the event/date you're supposed to attend with her-one chance to follow up on her word. If she fails to "let you know", let her go and make no attempt to contact her again unless she eventually re-initiates with you. Move on to the next one. Women like these are not worth your time.

If she is interested in really seeing you, she would hit you back. She would follow up and actually let you know because she has a vested interest in doing so (seeing you). No woman worthy of your time would blow you off like this. If she fails to follow up, then you must assume that she has better things to do in her mind. Leave her to those things and find another one, because once a girl runs down this flaky path it is a tough deal to salvage.

Do not reward her blatant disrespect/disregard with "reminders" and other attempts to regain her attention. Not only should a grown woman not need such reminders, but her receiving your continued attention will put you in a very bad position and it will be an uphill battle to regain hand. Trust me, been there, not productive.

Bottomline: Give her ONE chance to do what she said she'd do, leave her alone if she fails and only re-initiate if she gets in touch with you. If she doesn't recontact you, then that's that. Find another one.

Post: #5

(04-25-2011 10:49 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  The way I've dealt with this is to simply say, "forget you then" or "girl, please. Don't try to bullshit a bullshitter." And give them a dismissive gesture (at least when it happens in person). That always prompts a surprised look or a question, where I can elaborate on my call-out. I add something like, "that's the line I use on chicks all the time." Basically, you steal her frame and DHV. I've salvaged a few like this, but I can't say that it's more than half.

Nice lines, love them. I will definitely use them, not necessarily to prevent the flaking, but because I think one should always go out in style.

(04-25-2011 11:04 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  What would I do with what I know now? One strike, you're out. You need to show very little patience for this type of behavior. She says "I'll let you know". Give her a little space to do this prior to the event/date you're supposed to attend with her-one chance to follow up on her word. If she fails to "let you know", let her go and make no attempt to contact her again unless she eventually re-initiates with you. Move on to the next one. Women like these are not worth your time.

If she is interested in really seeing you, she would hit you back. She would follow up and actually let you know because she has a vested interest in doing so (seeing you). No woman worthy of your time would blow you off like this. If she fails to follow up, then you must assume that she has better things to do in her mind. Leave her to those things and find another one, because once a girl runs down this flaky path it is a tough deal to salvage.

Do not reward her blatant disrespect/disregard with "reminders" and other attempts to regain her attention. Not only should a grown woman not need such reminders, but her receiving your continued attention will put you in a very bad position and it will be an uphill battle to regain hand. Trust me, been there, not productive.

Bottomline: Give her ONE chance to do what she said she'd do, leave her alone if she fails and only re-initiate if she gets in touch with you. If she doesn't recontact you, then that's that. Find another one.

Good post McGinnis, although its hard to keep this mentality on when lack of results/too much flaking accumulates.

I'm curious though, do you throw a subtle reminder if she hits you back but does not mentions going out? It seems to me that she is just seeking attention, but then again she might be waiting for me to ask her out again?

Really need to improve alot on this field. Fucking flaking...

Post: #6

I agree with the "one strike, you're out" rule. I used to let it slide but ill delete a girl's number if she flakes on me now.

Post: #7

lmfao. this literally just happened to me.

April 26 at 12:13am Report
Haha well I work tomorrow and go to school.. but I'll let you know!


i know what i did wrong though. I didnt build up enough trust with the chick who i have never met before, before i said we should meet up

I think i came up with a good way to fix it. In my case, i used her close friend as leverage. I told her " sounds good. [her friends name] thinks we should all go swimming together sometime, you gotta be down for that"

Ill let you guys know how it goes. But basically try and find someway to name drop her friend into the message.

k it worked lol

April 26 at 12:44am Report
I am down for that! I guess I better start working on my summer body then!

any good response ideas? Shes sexy as fuck. eyebrow piercing, tongue ring, bellybutton pierced. and she has a good body from what ive seen.

Post: #8

(04-25-2011 10:24 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  I hate flaking, and I'm always trying to find ways to reduce it, but sometimes it just happens without any logical explanation.

Something I've noticed when I ask girls out is the usual "Yo te aviso!" or "I'll let you know!", english.

It usually goes along a nice text conversation, then I tell them to 'lets go [place] this week', they then drop the line I previously wrote.

I want to learn some good ways to handle this thing properly, and not get flaked on. Since she's the one who agreed on "hitting me up for confirmation" I never usually talk to them until they do so, the problem is, alot of time they don't. I figure, if she's interested, she will, or should hit me back, asking her again would come off as too needy.

Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe I should throw a reminder or something?

Would love to know how the forum manages this sort of shit and manage to get the night out, making the possibility for the notch still open.

I had this happen to me with my date from last week. We met up yesterday for lunch and she said she wanted to meet up before leaving for the weekend (then again Sunday if she makes it back on her birthday). She said had plans Wednesday but she'd let me know. I told her to cancel her plans. She smiled and said "Ok I'll try." While we were saying our goodbyes she said "I'll let you know." I said, "Ok give me a call. Actually no, I'll call you."

I'll let you know how it goes, but this is my stance on it and it seems to work being persistent and slightly aggressive. There's not many reasons she wouldn't cancel her plans with friends if she's really into you, like in my case. If a girl wants to see you, she'll find a way to make it happen. You just need to give her that nudge.

Post: #9

IME, whenever a girl gives you a vague answer like "I'll let you know" it's because 2 things are happening in her mind:

1. She is not interested in you <<--- Move on, and man-up! Call her out on her shit before you leave as GMAC noted. Women are non-confrontational creatures, remember that.
2. Girls never commit to anything for weekends (prime-time) <<--- her GF's or another guy who has been kissing her ass take priority over a new guy who is "unproven". (as she sees it)

If you were to ask her out on a Monday or Tuesday, chances are, she will accept and not flake. Women have NOTHING to do on these days. So she won't see it as a lost weekend if she ends up not liking you.

*** TIP

When setting up a Monday - Wednesday date, tell her that YOU are too busy on weekends, which is why you can only do those days. It's DHV.

Mixx

Post: #10

I agree totally with Athlone on this. I was talking with my boy last night about this and the big problem guys is, we are not generating enough activity on the field.
If you have enough women out there that you are engaging in conversation with, then when one comes up with some B.S, kick her to the curb.

I don't want to sound like a misogynist but as men our value constantly increases with age whereas a woman's value steadily decreases.

Many women have nothing to leverage but their looks (youthful looking, fertility) and their tight pussies. Once you negate those factors as a bargaining chip, you realise that her value is really very minimal.

Something I am trying to do to force myself to generate activity is to stop taking numbers when I go out to clubs and bars and go directly for the SNL.

My wingman is shocked at this new tactic. I was finding that I was getting too comfortable with accumulating numbers and I end up wasting time talking shyt on the phone and possibly killing the sexual tension that can lead to a favourable escalation.

I don't want to meet them up for coffee. I don't want to go on a date with them. I don't drink coffee or tea. Their conversations are usually boring. I hardly meet ATTRACTIVE women in my city that can engage me in good convo. I don't want to engage women in convo. I have friends that can do that.

I want to fcuk them. If the pussy is good, then we can talk afterwards (with limitations).

Think about the amount of women in your city. Think about the sample pool you have to work with. With that in mind, you will be able to be a lot more surgical with your dealings.

This too is something I have to work on also.

Hope that was of help.

Post: #11

(04-26-2011 08:45 AM)Moma Wrote:  I agree totally with Athlone on this. I was talking with my boy last night about this and the big problem guys is, we are not generating enough activity on the field.
If you have enough women out there that you are engaging in conversation with, then when one comes up with some B.S, kick her to the curb.

I don't want to sound like a misogynist but as men our value constantly increases with age whereas a woman's value steadily decreases.

Many women have nothing to leverage but their looks (youthful looking, fertility) and their tight pussies. Once you negate those factors as a bargaining chip, you realise that her value is really very minimal.

Something I am trying to do to force myself to generate activity is to stop taking numbers when I go out to clubs and bars and go directly for the SNL.

My wingman is shocked at this new tactic. I was finding that I was getting too comfortable with accumulating numbers and I end up wasting time talking shyt on the phone and possibly killing the sexual tension that can lead to a favourable escalation.

I don't want to meet them up for coffee. I don't want to go on a date with them. I don't drink coffee or tea. Their conversations are usually boring. I hardly meet ATTRACTIVE women in my city that can engage me in good convo. I don't want to engage women in convo. I have friends that can do that.

I want to fcuk them. If the pussy is good, then we can talk afterwards (with limitations).

Think about the amount of women in your city. Think about the sample pool you have to work with. With that in mind, you will be able to be a lot more surgical with your dealings.

This too is something I have to work on also.

Hope that was of help.

I've been aggressively pursuing SNL's with my first dates too (outside of bars/clubs). This helps me weed out the prudes quick and since I've got so many dates a week I could care less if one think I came on too strong too fast. I got three in the pocket, two lined up for this weekend. Even though I didn't get the SNL, there's a much higher probability now of a lay since I went for it, was unsuccessful, but she still wanted to see me again.

Post: #12

(04-26-2011 08:45 AM)Moma Wrote:  Something I am trying to do to force myself to generate activity is to stop taking numbers when I go out to clubs and bars and go directly for the SNL.

I am so proud of you Moma!!! Congrats on this new mentality. It is 100% of my mantra too.

If I cannot escalate right there and then, for whatever reason, I move on. The only time a number is acceptable is to be used for the purpose of pulling her away from cock-blockers, or to get directions on where to meet later on that night.


I have discovered that out of 50 numbers I collect, MAYBE 5 WILL BE F-CLOSES. I get more from SNL's than from chasing women who do not want to pick up the phone anymore to talk, and just text all fucking day like a heroin addict needs his fix.

Mixx

Post: #13

(04-25-2011 11:21 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  Good post McGinnis, although its hard to keep this mentality on when lack of results/too much flaking accumulates.

This is the classic catch-22 of game.

Women like men with with confidence and experience. So the key to building success with women is to show confidence and experience. The best way to do that is to be sexually successful (get some notches under your belt)...but you can't do that without the confidence and experience.
It is a tough hill to climb.

I'm in a position similar to yours, and my solution is simple: shift your focus. You need to find a way to push women into a highly peripheral status in your life, and receiving sexual gratification must not be your main focus. How do you make this change? Focus on bettering yourself. Train your body and your mind. Find a hobby you can entirely devote yourself to.

I'm still a college sophomore, so my focus rests entirely on bettering myself academically (preparing for a career/grad school) and physically. All I do is train and study. I've also spent a lot of my free time on forums and blogs with messages similar to this one, an action that has helped me gain a pretty solid understanding of the game (and why I've been so bad at it).

So why not bother? Return on Investment. I could invest much more in them by going out every weekend, getting drunk, buying a crapload of stuff to impress them, taking them on dates, etc, etc(I have in fact done this extensively in the past), but the return is poor, and part of that is because I lacked the confidence and experience they want.

So what did I do? Read a lot of game, got realistic and shifted my focus to myself and things that interest me. Now I'm much more content, I get flaked on far less (I don't give the girl a chance), and I am more successful with women than I was as a supplicating, needy beta freshman.

Bottomline:If you can properly shift your focus in this manner, you'll have no problem eventually developing the mentality I outlined to you in my previous post. Why? Because you'll care less. You will have other productive things to devote yourself to, so when a woman shows up you, armed with your new hobbies and a realization of her status as a poor investment, will show a significantly calmer, less anxious, more independent, and confident demeanor.

And that's when the women come.

Quote:I'm curious though, do you throw a subtle reminder if she hits you back but does not mentions going out? It seems to me that she is just seeking attention, but then again she might be waiting for me to ask her out again?

NO.

You must make no mention of her prior disrespect/dismissal of you. It can't be seen to register on your mind. If you do decide to mention it, you will simply be giving her the upper hand by acknowledging and therefore tacitly tolerating her disrespect. Your strategy must be zero tolerance-it NEVER happened.

Now, let's say she has re-initiated and you want the opportunity to take her out again. After you've bantered for a bit and built a bit of comfort/rapport with a decent conversation, you can casually suggest a casual meeting. The key here is to keep it in the very near future-schedule something not much more than a few hours away(less if you can help it) and within close distance of both of you(if you can work those logistics out). This will help to minimize her chances of flaking by giving her fewer excuses to use and less time to make up said excuses. It isn't a guarantee, but its a decent tool to hedge your bets with.

If she says yes, go forward with it. If she doesn't show at the agreed time(another flake), give up on her completely, but if she does you can move forward with the date.

If she gives you another variation of the tried and true response("I'll let you know!"), you should probably give up on her and forget about the date. Let her go. You've already given her the requisite one-strike, and if she still has to think about it now it won't work. If she was truly ready to see you, you wouldn't be dealing with that. She has an agenda, which can include several scenarios:

1. She just doesn't like you. Always a possibility.

2. She likes you, but wants to keep you in reserve. She's young and attractive and close to her prime, so she's extra picky. She may be attracted to you and might actually realize that you'd make a pretty good bet as a partner, but she is young and doesn't want to limit herself in case a better deal comes along. So she'll let you off easy ("I'll let you know!") and be cordial when seeing you in public, but she'll stop short of dating you. In other words, you're her "reserve" guy, or backup plan for when it become clear that the better options aren't coming, and she wants to keep you around just in case("I value our friendship and I don't wanna lose that!"). This will only change when her value declines (read: aging) reducing her options or you relocate to a place where she has naturally fewer options (example: from isolated Ivy with 48:52 female:male ratio to large college town filled with large state and private schools averaging a 60:40 ratio-seen it happen, behavior changes quick).

3. She's an attention whore. This can fit in with number 2. An attention whore might actually have feelings for a guy, but she has a greater desire for attention. She must be seen and admired, and being single allows her to get the most out of every night(every average frustrated chump sees her unattached and thinks he has a shot). She loses this if she gets attached (those average frustrate chumps tone their pursuit down, some think they have no shot anymore), and so she will avoid it even if she likes you. One man can't satisfy her appetite for social gratification. Attention whores make poor girlfriends because they value the shallow thoughts and feelings of a mass of random men they don't know over the deeper feelings of men who want to invest in them more substantively and make an effort to show that.
If this is the case, then you dodged a bullet.

Bottomline: If she does re-initiate and you attempt to move things forward again and she gives you anything less than a definitively positive answer to your date request followed by an actual appearance at the date, let it go. She has an agenda(one of the three above) and is not worth your time. If she is a good potential match with an interest in you, you'll get a positive answer and she'll show up at the date (that, or she'll offer a REALLY GOOD, legitimate excuse along with a suggestion for an alternate meeting time).

Post: #14

(04-26-2011 09:01 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 08:45 AM)Moma Wrote:  Something I am trying to do to force myself to generate activity is to stop taking numbers when I go out to clubs and bars and go directly for the SNL.

I am so proud of you Moma!!! Congrats on this new mentality. It is 100% of my mantra too.

If I cannot escalate right there and then, for whatever reason, I move on. The only time a number is acceptable is to be used for the purpose of pulling her away from cock-blockers, or to get directions on where to meet later on that night.

I have discovered that out of 50 numbers I collect, MAYBE 5 WILL BE F-CLOSES. I get more from SNL's than from chasing women who do not want to pick up the phone anymore to talk, and just text all fucking day like a heroin addict needs his fix.

Mixx

If there's one thing this forum has enforced in my beliefs it is this. I'm all about the SNL. Cuts the bullshit, and if she turns out to be a flake, who cares? You've already got the notch.

Too often with night game, girls go out to the bar, get drunk, and she becomes someone else for a night. She's crazy, having fun, but guess what? Tomorrow, none of it counts because she was drunk! Thus she feels zero obligation to reply to you, no matter how cool she thought you were the night before.

Post: #15

(04-26-2011 12:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  You must make no mention of her prior disrespect/dismissal of you. It can't be seen to register on your mind. If you do decide to mention it, you will simply be giving her the upper hand by acknowledging and therefore tacitly tolerating her disrespect. Your strategy must be zero tolerance-it NEVER happened.

This is an important point in my experience as well. Unless something is blatant, I ignore minor instances of disrespect or brushing-off if I'm still interested in a girl--and she hasn't ruined her image of herself in my mind through her dismissive or flaky behavior.

The hamster in her head is always going to assume she's messed up, by being "too subtle," and she'll either try harder (and peace-out blatantly) or go along for the ride as you continue to demonstrate how valuable you are. At a certain point, if you're doing things right, a girl that's being coy will be impressed with you, whether she decides to chill with you or not.

I've had instances where smoking hot chicks turn me down while spitting some serious respect for my game. It doesn't make a difference--I still didn't get the girl--but it's nice to get some real, specific feedback on my shit.

Post: #16

(04-25-2011 10:24 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  I want to learn some good ways to handle this thing properly, and not get flaked on.

Flaking will never stop. Athlone McGinnis put it best. When women flake they're showing you something about who they are and how they perceive you. As frustrating as flaking is, it helps you determine which ones are worth putting the effort into. A girl who doesn't flake could be relationship material. A girl who flakes puts herself into the fuck-buddy zone at best.

(04-25-2011 10:24 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  Maybe I should throw a reminder or something?

No way. Don't do that to yourself. You're telling her that you strongly desire to see her. When she says "I'll let you know", she's telling you that any distraction that comes her way is potentially more interesting than seeing you. Take that as the insult it is and you'll learn to get over it quicker. Again, you have to try to internalize what a flake is actually telling you.

I like Roosh's advice on fighting flaking with flaking. If she's willing to set up another meeting, agree to a time of your choosing and then flake on her. Give her an excuse as stupid as she gave you. Show her that meeting up is as important to you as it is to her (i.e. it's not). You might be able to salvage something from there. At this point in my dating career, I only put that much effort into a girl if I'm interested in getting a flag or something along those lines. American girls get the curb after just one flake.

(04-25-2011 10:24 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  Maybe I should throw a reminder or something?

Also, I've found that when I use the word "maybe" I'm likely bullshitting myself. It's a word that allows my emotions to sneak in and try to alter a rational response. Try to keep that in mind as well.

Post: #17

Alright,

@Mixx: As of 2011 I have adopted the idea of taking girls out during the weekend, and it works well. Girls have nothing to do on weekdays indeed, which I did this way sooner. I don't see me doing SNL game anytime soon because logistics are very fucked up for me and for most people my age over here, but definitely when I get older.

@McGinnis: Good post.

Quote:The best way to do that is to be sexually successful

Not gonna argue there, but I don't see how a girl that just met you can confirm this in her mind with nothing other than your proof of tight game, and I think I got really good game imo. Hence why I think sometimes this shit doesn't make any sense.

Quote:How do you make this change? Focus on bettering yourself. Train your body and your mind. Find a hobby you can entirely devote yourself to.

What troubles me most is that this is the case. I go to the gym and my shape has gotten so much better, it has given my confidence a good boost. I always have my hobbies even though I feel like I have abandoned them lately, but despite that, I always find a way to slip them in to the girl and DHV.

@CupCake: Figured. It just seems to me that its just way too MUCH flaking that I wonder if its normal, even when I know its a numbers game. When I see a success story from a fellow forum member I wonder how many flakes he just had that week, which is never mentioned, its just very frustrating.


Well it seems that I should adopt the one-strike only idea permanently, allowing just a few exceptions whenever I consider appropriate/valid.

Keep posting guys, great replies so far, keep em coming.

Post: #18

When the girl does say I'll let you know.. is she geuine,, or its just a segway not in a million years will i go out with you? I believe its the latter.... Much like in a club or bar, a woman says it was nice to meet you within a few minutes of convo,, you know you are done....

Confronting a girl on the "I'll let you know" you might come out creepy in her eyes,, but who the hell cares!! you probably will never see her again, so just get her out of your head, and say honestly I don't want to waste my time... you either give me a firm time and date or just delete me right there and then from your contact list....

Much like others,, Moma and Mixx,, SNL's are the way to go.... yes, logistics might pose a problem, but in the nightclub world that is your best bet.... Long shots of succeeding afterwards.

Post: #19

(04-26-2011 10:46 PM)tomtud Wrote:  Confronting a girl on the "I'll let you know" you might come out creepy in her eyes,, but who the hell cares!!

If a girl gives a wishy washy answer like that, just say "what kind of answer is that?" to put her on the spot. I don't think that would come off as creepy or needy and at the same time forces her to be a bit more definite.

To the OP, If girls keep flaking on you, it may just be a sign that you are having problems demonstrating your value. If you have a low or even so-so value to a girl, she just isn't going to be that motivated to see you. For guys, just the possibility of getting some ass is all the motivation we need. But for girls, we have to show some level of status or value to push the attraction buttons. Otherwise you'll be just an option for her "if she happens to feel like" going out that night. You may have great value, but if that's not being sufficiently communicated to a girl, you won't benefit from it. I also think that the younger the girl, the more your value comes purely from looks rather than your overall qualities. A 19 year old girl doesn't care if a guy is broke as fuck and lives in his mom's garage.

Post: #20

(04-26-2011 10:38 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  Not gonna argue there, but I don't see how a girl that just met you can confirm this in her mind with nothing other than your proof of tight game, and I think I got really good game imo. Hence why I think sometimes this shit doesn't make any sense.

This is one of the first mistakes a guy will make when it comes to women-they VASTLY underestimate female emotional instincts and intelligence.

In some ways, you need to see the female instinct as almost alien-she's got almost Superman-like see-through vision, and can read your emotions like a book just by looking at you. The average girl has a very high level of emotional intelligence and has probably been running(usually less than consciously) some form of "game" on guys since she hit puberty, especially if she is attractive.

Girls can read a man. Your slightest incongruity can send signals to them, and when I say slight I mean very slight. It could be the way you hold your glass when standing at the club, the way you speak, etc, etc, I'm talking about things you wouldn't even notice until it was too late. This, along with "shit tests" constitute a girl's main means of separating betas and other undesirables from the alpha male stock. Even your average 18-19 year old cutie fresh out of high school can read you like a book from the minute you walk into the room, and more often than not a lot of her guesses will be dead on.

I guarantee you that you too are regularly read by these women, and not always in a positive way. Even the most skilled PUA's have success rates barely hovering above the single digits in the US. Your practicing and expressing tight game is certainly visible to her, but so are many other things that, while irrelevant to you, are quite visible to her even on a subconscious level. Your body, voice, etc can tell her rationalization hamster a million things.

If you are concerned or insecure about something and it is harming your game and giving you a pretty low success rate (as well as a relatively high level of frustration), it is probably showing somewhere and can, at least to some extent, affect your future success rate. You personally are struggling a lot with flaking. It is frustrating you(as it does most men) and you admit having a difficult time adopting the mindset you'd need to counter this flaking(you quoted my earlier post as showing this "good mindset") due to a relatively low success rate. The pursuit of women is very important to you right now so I'd assume this whole situation (debating whether or not to hit her back, would it be needy, etc, etc) is putting you in a less than ideal state.

In instances like this where one's state is significantly below where he wants to be and he is not having an overabundance of success, it is very difficult to completely hide it in your body language, voice, wording, etc. You'd have to hide even the most minute signs of your discontent (difficult even in more ideal circumstances), as a decently attractive girl can probably read them quickly (consciously or subconsciously) and make a conclusion.

This doesn't mean it is impossible to fool a girl with tight game, but it is not as easy as you'd think for a guy who isn't where he wants to be sexually(and who considers that aspect of his life extremely important) to fool a chick into thinking he is. Game is not an impenetrable shield, which is why it can take an average frustrated beta(to use an example) a while to get laid, even though he'll probably luck out eventually and begin building a notch count. He'll fail early because most girls will see his inexperience and desperation quickly without any verbal exchange, even if he is a decently trained PUA (bootcamps, lots of readings, etc). You can fake it til you make it, and you'll likely make it eventually, but it can take a long time.

The only truly foolproof way around this is to actually attain the aura of confidence and aloof experience/indifference that you desire to emulate. Once you get this, it'll shine through your most subtle cues as she reads them. To actually get to this stage, however, you need to:
1. Actually get the notch count up somehow.
2. Make women peripheral and gain confidence in other things you like.

Quote:What troubles me most is that this is the case. I go to the gym and my shape has gotten so much better, it has given my confidence a good boost. I always have my hobbies even though I feel like I have abandoned them lately, but despite that, I always find a way to slip them in to the girl and DHV.

Not to be harsh bro, but you're WAY off, at least as far as the strategy I outlined goes. You're not investing in yourself enough.

Take your hobbies for example- you've "abandoned them lately". The key to focusing on oneself is to really invest in these interests and make them central and primary to your life and your happiness(which shouldn't be hard if you pick things you really like). Instead, you're saying here that you've essentially abandoned them and only use them to casually DHV with girls and impress them. In other words, the only relevance your hobbies really have in your life now(since you say you've largely abandoned them) is to impress girls casually in conversation. That is the opposite of the strategy I'm proposing here.

Find a passion that doesn't have two tits and a vagina. Seriously invest in it-make it you. Give it all the energy you can spare and make sure its an activity in which you can spare that energy happily and gain joy out of the whole effort, while still taking it very seriously.

These activities will become more central to your life, and will hopefully aid you in making women more peripheral and yourself more content. These changes will show in your character around women-calmer, more self assured, confident, etc. And that is when the women will flock to you in larger numbers.

Also, a passionate hobby/interest or even career is the ultimate DHV. What you're doing(not actually practicing hobbies/investing in them but casually mentioning them to DHV) is not a bad play in theory and women may like to hear it to an extent.

What would work better, however, is a REAL passion. Women react differently to passive DHVs regarding things you're not really invested in and REAL DHVs, descriptions of thing that are clearly heavily invested in by you and quite central to your happiness/contentment while having nothing to do with females or their presence in your life. Women can see the difference, and the second option is FAR more effective.

Read this post from Roissy to get a better idea of what I mean:

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/why-so-serious/

A quick quote to summarize his main point:

Quote:Women love two things: Passionate men who pursue their mission(s) in life with single-minded focus, and easily distracted men whose interests and hobbies are capable of diverting their attention from the wiles of women...Moral of this post: Get a hobby, any hobby (except video gaming or Civil War reenacting), and throw yourself into it. Make sure she occasionally sees your brow sweating with passionate single-mindedness. You don’t even have to be that good at it. Her libido will respond right on cue.

Post: #21

@speakeasy: Yeah maybe I'm not communicating my value properly. Any tips on this?


McGinnis: I see what you mean. For the record, I have ''abandoned'' my hobbies lately due to lack of free time, I got a job recently which I'm taking along with college, when I have free time I'm very tired/not in the mood and its when I relax and come to this forum. It has nothing to do with women, still, communicating them its vital to show DHV wether I am or not practicing my hobbies as I feel I should.

Quote:Find a passion that doesn't have two tits and a vagina

Man thats a little exagerating, I might experience more flaking than usual but I stopped putting the pussy on the pedestal a long time ago.

Anyways, I see what you mean. And your post has inspired me to get back on track, not only that, but to add new stuff into the list and give it my all.

Post: #22

Damn I like all this advice. Take a little bit from each and put your own spin on it and voila you have your own game conducive to you.

The best days to fly are on Tuesdays and Wednesdays .. Relate that to a female, much like Mixx said forget it, the weekends are prime time for females.

Here one problem guys make. TEXTING, texting a girl too much automatically put you in the friend-zone. Women are attention whores. PERIOD. If you do not make a move on that within 1 week max, consider any chance you had diminished. Not saying dead but severely cut down. Giving her too much time to think will allow her rational mind to come into play, which allows her to weigh all the options and blah blah.

And like everyone else has been saying, call her out on that jive ass idk, possibly, i'll think about it, response. A clear cut yes or no will do. That way no one is wasting there time, half of the women you approach are probably not mentally stimulating, as far as holding an intelligent conversation anyway.

Post: #23

(04-25-2011 11:04 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  "That's what I do with chicks.."

Great line, but as you said once they start to be evasive things don't usually work.

Bottomline: Give her ONE chance to do what she said she'd do, leave her alone if she fails and only re-initiate if she gets in touch with you. If she doesn't recontact you, then that's that. Find another one.

I TOTALLY agree-- I've been turned down so many times and they are geniuses at making up some foggy but plausible reason.


This is said from the context of someone who really is not interested in one, or even two or three night affairs. I don't really like having sex with women
I don't know somewhat and have some kind of trust developed.

I believe sometimes you can
coax someone not really eager, but then as you try to take the relationship further, they'll flake quite soon with some other excuse.
Those of you just going for the night might not be concerned with this.


HOWEVER, the ones that are interested are slightly shocking in their eagerness. It's a qualitatively clear difference.


LOL, my dad put it best for me: " When they're serious, you'll know."

Fastest, least frustrating approach and interpretation:
ANYTHING BUT YES IS NO. NO SECOND CHANCES.

Unless of course she's been regularly fucking you and honestly after twenty times is supposed to go see her parents.

Post: #24

deleted double post