Post: #1

http://alpharivelino.wordpress.com/2011/...d-you-tip/

THIS IS A FRAME CONTROL POP QUIZ
PLEASE PROVIDE YOUR ANSWERS BELOW

CORRECT ANSWER AND FULL EXPLANATION
COMING LATER TODAY

PLEASE DO THIS EXERCISE
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT

a few nights ago, i took my photo teacher nora to this small, live music lounge after class.

we went in, listened to the live music, got drinks, etc. the crowd was decent but mostly older. after a few hours, the crowd thinned out, a couple of the other cute girls left, and there was this one drunk dude sitting behind us at the bar.

now, nora is cute, and the guy was drunk, and he had already made a sort of heckling comment to one of the performers, and i am sure that he was checking out nora and feeling jealous that she was with me -- and so then, he took the opportunity to attempt to amog me.

this is what happened.

the owner of the bar went on stage to the mic and made a few announcements about upcoming performances, and then said, please don't forget to tip, the tip jar is right here.

so a few songs later, i went up to the tip jar at the front of the room next to the stage, and threw in five bucks.

when i was coming back and sitting down, the drunk dude sitting behind us yelled out pretty loudly,

"hey dude, how much did you tip??"

he didn't say it really aggressively -- he said it with a slow, drunken drawl -- but it was clearly an aggressive move to make me feel awkward -- and look stupid -- in front of my girl -- and in front of the entire bar, cause everyone heard it.

no surprise there -- men fighting over limited resources.

in this situation, the previous version of rivelino might have had something slightly witty to say -- or not -- but that bullshit attack would have pissed me off for the rest of the night, thrown me off my game, and i would have left the bar with a bad taste in my mouth, and gone off in my own head about how people were so stupid, and why was everyone so mean, and wtf, etc. i would have wrapped myself up in fury and bitterness and victimization. if it had been high school rivelino, i probably would have vowed to never go to a bar again, cause drunk people were so stupid.

but the new version of rivelino, the man who honed his frame control skills over eight months in the hostile environment of company x, well the new rivelino didn't even break a sweat.

the answer came to me so easily and effortlessly, that it was actually humorous and fun -- it was one of the highlight of the night, in fact.

so, to repeat, here is the situation:

i walk up to the stage, throw some cash in the tip jar, and as i coming back to my seat, a drunk guy says to me,

"hey dude, how much did you tip??"

i turn around, look at him, and what do i say?

Post: #2

I'd ignore him. People like that will turn anything you say into either an insult or a submission. You insult him he escalates, you submit he escalates. Ignore him and there's a good chance he'll just lose interest, he could take you ignoring him as an insult and escalate, but then you've done absolutely nothing, putting all the of the wrong 100% on him.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #3

"Why, would you like a lesson in tipping etiquette?"

Post: #4

"5 bucks more than you have"

Post: #5

guys, we have a lot of work to do on frame control.

more on this tomorrow. working on a longer post.

Post: #6

"CORRECT ANSWER AND FULL EXPLANATION
COMING LATER TODAY"

There are many correct answers, depending on who you are, who the girl is, and what you're trying to do with her.

I like Gmac's answer, but ignoring isn't bad either.

Post: #7

"There are many correct answers, depending on who you are, who the girl is, and what you're trying to do with her."

not really. there is one correct answer, backed up by frame control theory.

so far i am not seeing anyone understanding the concept of frame control, much less having true mastery of it.

Post: #8

(04-22-2011 10:20 PM)rivelino Wrote:  not really. there is one correct answer, backed up by frame control theory.

so far i am not seeing anyone understanding the concept of frame control, much less having true mastery of it.

I reject the idea that there is one answer for all people, and even if tere was that you would know that one answer better than I do.

Post: #9

(04-23-2011 01:29 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(04-22-2011 10:20 PM)rivelino Wrote:  not really. there is one correct answer, backed up by frame control theory.

so far i am not seeing anyone understanding the concept of frame control, much less having true mastery of it.

I reject the idea that there is "one correct answer" for all people, and even if there was that you would know it rather then me.



I think you've offered a good story however and appreciate it.

My answer would also be don't dignify harassment.

Maybe acknowledge it said something with a dismissive smile without offering escalation opening.

I personally have a very soothing and non-threatening demeanor, so
I literally almost never have to engage in "putting someone in their place" with its high risk of blowback.

Post: #10

(04-23-2011 01:29 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(04-22-2011 10:20 PM)rivelino Wrote:  not really. there is one correct answer, backed up by frame control theory.

so far i am not seeing anyone understanding the concept of frame control, much less having true mastery of it.

I reject the idea that there is "one correct answer" for all people, and even if there was that you would know it rather then me.


I think you've offered a good story however and appreciate it.

My answer would also be don't dignify harassment.

Maybe acknowledge it said something with a dismissive smile without offering escalation opening.

I personally have a very soothing and non-threatening demeanor, so
I literally almost never have to engage in "putting someone in their place" with its high risk of blowback.

Post: #11

"I reject the idea that there is 'one correct answer' for all people"

you're not the only one

Post: #12

here is a decently good introduction to frame control:

http://www.lovesystems.com/audio/vol-5-f...savoy-sinn

email me if you want more info on this

[email protected]

Post: #13

(04-23-2011 02:39 AM)rivelino Wrote:  here is a decently good introduction to frame control:

http://www.lovesystems.com/audio/vol-5-f...savoy-sinn

email me if you want more info on this

[email protected]

like where to buy it?

Post: #14

(04-23-2011 03:51 AM)The_CEO Wrote:  

(04-23-2011 02:39 AM)rivelino Wrote:  here is a decently good introduction to frame control:

http://www.lovesystems.com/audio/vol-5-f...savoy-sinn

email me if you want more info on this

[email protected]

like where to buy it?

haha no the opposite

Post: #15

Seriously??
Just shoot him a fuck off look and get back to your business, you've got better shit to do. why would would waste time arguing with a drunk.

Riv, you ex-fratboy. stop acting like you're the "master of frame control" because you've read some books and listened to a Lovesystems audiotape.

Post: #16

"Just shoot him a fuck off look"

so you are advocating getting angry at him -- being emotionally reactive.

Post: #17

emotional dude .

Post: #18

Well I figured that if you completely ignored him he'd come over and keep asking you "hey buddy, hey buddy, I asked how much you tipped" trying to weasel his way in with your girl, a lot harder to get rid of.

He should know you mean business, but that you wouldn't waste time talking to him because he's so far below you.

Post: #19

(04-23-2011 04:12 PM)peterthephoenix Wrote:  Well I figured that if you completely ignored him he'd come over and keep asking you "hey buddy, hey buddy, I asked how much you tipped" trying to weasel his way in with your girl, a lot harder to get rid of.

He should know you mean business, but that you wouldn't waste time talking to him because he's so far below you.

If he keeps bothering you, and you're in a bar you frequent, call the bartender over and give him the "shits on" look and say "You think this guy needs another beer, I think he might"

Say it with a serious tone and the bartender will get you're point that the dudes and asshole and usually will grab security. From the assholes point of view you just offered to buy him a drink so he's not likely to cause you more trouble.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #20

in some cases, ignoring the other person is the ultimate frame control move -- the ultimate amog move.

but i agree, not in this case, because it could further encourage him.

i am working on writing up the correct answer and the full explanation.

also, peter, you do make a good point, if the dude was REALLY drunk then it would in fact be another situation entirely. he wasn't piss drunk, he was just drunk enough to be loud and annoying. but he wasn't being physically belligerent or anything.

Post: #21

quiz has been updated on my blog:
http://alpharivelino.wordpress.com/2011/...ip-part-2/

Post: #22

This better be good for all the hype.

Post: #23

Lol I know right. I voted for the million dollar response

Post: #24

"This better be good for all the hype."

have i ever let you down before?

:-)

Post: #25

but seriously, i still don't understand all the reluctance to learn frame control. i get the feeling that people don't really understand how powerful it is -- well, i KNOW that people don't realize how powerful it is.

roissy has written about it enough, i guess you guys weren't impressed.

and it IS a learnable skill. very easily learned.

instead, i come on this forum once in a while, and i see questions like, which country has the hottest cougars?, and which country has the girls with the best tits -- so basically, guys are willing to move to an entirely different country to get pussy, but can't be bothered to learn frame control.

i was going to say something else, but i forgot now.

oh yeah, i am sensing "resistance", to use tyler's word.

anyway, gotta get ready to have easter dinner with my parents.

happy easter everybody.

JESUS IS SALVATION