Post: #1

BACKGROUND: I've had some success with my authentic OKCupid account in the US, but I still find the process very frustrating and feel like I'm constantly being rejected by girls with a lower dating market value. I wanted to test this forum's contention that the US dating market is stacked against men.

THE EXPERIMENT: I made a fake profile of myself in an undisclosed Asian city. Same photos, however, I put a lot of effort into making my US profile creative, engaging and humorous, whereas my Asia profile just says that I'm from the US and transferred over for work.

RATIOS: Here was my first hint that this test would produce very different results than my US profile is used to. I did some searches narrow enough to count the number of users by hand, and found the following to be the ratios of active users on the site in each location:
US location: 69% men, 31% women
Asian city: 39% men, 61% women

UNSOLICITED INCOMING MESSAGES:
US location: Once every month or three, I get one from a whale.
Asian city: In a day and a half of having the profile open, I've received 11 unsolicited messages. Most of these were from thin and bangable chicks, and a couple were even from hot girls I would consider "out of my league" here in the US.

OUTGOING MESSAGE RESPONSES:
US location: I always work to write messages that stand out and leave plenty of room for conversation. When the girl's profile has any modicum of substance to it, I write an individualized message. My response rate hovers around 20%, and most of those responses are totally thoughtless and unenthusiastic, and kill whatever conversational thread I attempted to start.
Asian city: I sent out 30 of a lame, obvious copy-paste job ONLY to attractive girls whom I would message with my real profile. After 24 hours... 16 responses (53%). I'd probably pick up a few more if I gave it some time. I sensed much more enthusiasm and effort in these responses than the US ones; the girls actually asked questions and showed interest in me. As with the unsolicited messages, I got several responses from hot girls whom I thought were "out of my league." Also, funny anecdote- one of the girls I messaged was an American who had recently moved. Needless to say, she was one of the 14/30 who didn't respond.

QUICKMATCH: For the uninitiated, quickmatch is a feature that resembles Tinder in that you see someone's profile and choose to "Like" or "Pass". The difference is that OKCupid's quickmatch shows you how many people in total have "Liked" you.
US location: Over several months (don't remember the last time I cleared it), 30 girls have "Liked" me.
Asian city: Over a day and a half, 50 girls have "Liked" me.

CONCLUSION: My results in Asia, putting in no effort and demonstrating no personality, were light years better than my results in the US where I work hard to make sure I'm funnier and more interesting than the next guy. I seriously doubt that all my efforts to be interesting and write individualized messages in the US are actually counterproductive, which only leaves one conclusion... yes, the dating market in the US is awful compared to some other parts of the world, to the point where some men who are invisible to American women would be considered hot elsewhere. I'm really wondering why this is... it's not like there's a shortage of women in the US and a shortage of men in this Asian location. It's close enough to 50/50 in both places. So how could this be?

Post: #2

Shouldn't this be moved to game?

Post: #3

You should extend this experiment to East Europe and South America, could make for a good comparison.

Post: #4

It's pretty simple - how many fat girls live in both places? I would assume it is 10 times more at minimum in the US - which is probably why this forum exists in the first place.

Post: #5

(12-14-2014 12:26 PM)DrewP Wrote:  RATIOS: ...
US location: 69% men, 31% women
Asian city: 39% men, 61% women

...

I'm really wondering why this is... it's not like there's a shortage of women in the US and a shortage of men in this Asian location. It's close enough to 50/50 in both places. So how could this be?

Yes, I too wonder why this is.

Post: #6

I love these type of experiments. You should also try spoofing your GPS to an Asian city on Tinder and see your results. If you're not in the top 20% of men, you're fighting for crumbs.

Post: #7

Are you white?
pretty sure that's the big difference.
Just being young, white, and having a job that allows you to move there gives you an advantage

Post: #8

How many of the girls did you bang?

Are you speaking only English with them?

Good thread.

Post: #9

Overall I'd agree with your conclusions. But on OkCupid overseas, generally the types of girls who sign up are girls who are sick of the local talent and start to specifically go after gringos.

So when you message girls in Asia or Latin America, you're essentially preaching to the choir - of course you're going to get good results.

In North America, there's none of that - and that has really nothing to do with how damaged the dating market is.

But like I said, I agree that the dating market generally is better for gringos in Asia at least (and Latin America), but your experiment failed to take into consideration this selection bias.

Post: #10

Guys, I've done these experiments in several cities with Tinder.

EVERY place has been better than my home base in terms of the quality and personality of the girls through chat. Philippines, Scandinavian, Ukraine, Columbia, Mexico, China. Of course since I'm not there I'm not sure the ease of the bang.

The grass truly seems greener, but I'm confirming with some trips in 2015.

Definitely a great way to pipeline before a trip.

Post: #11

Quote:It's pretty simple - how many fat girls live in both places? I would assume it is 10 times more at minimum in the US - which is probably why this forum exists in the first place.

I agree this is probably the leading factor. You actually have to dig to find a fat chick in this city. The ones who list themselves as "average" or "curvy" would be classified as dangerously anorexic over on Jezebel. We all know what average and curvy mean here in the states...

Quote:How many of the girls did you bang?

Are you speaking only English with them?

You're misunderstanding a bit- I never physically went to this city, just set up an OKC profile in it for experimental purposes, so no bangs. Yes, English only.

Quote:Are you white?
pretty sure that's the big difference.
Just being young, white, and having a job that allows you to move there gives you an advantage

Quote:Overall I'd agree with your conclusions. But on OkCupid overseas, generally the types of girls who sign up are girls who are sick of the local talent and start to specifically go after gringos.

So when you message girls in Asia or Latin America, you're essentially preaching to the choir - of course you're going to get good results.

In North America, there's none of that - and that has really nothing to do with how damaged the dating market is.

Yes, I'm sure the exotic factor is helping me out quite a bit. It cannot, however, explain this part:

RATIOS:
US location: 69% men, 31% women
Asian city: 39% men, 61% women

I'm not sure people quite grasp the implications of the 7:3 ratio we have on dating sites here in the states (at least in my location, which I have no reason to believe is unique). Imagine this: You're placed in a room with 6 other guys and 3 girls who represent an unbiased cross-section of the US population. You're told you all have to pair with someone of the opposite sex to spend the night together. How would this play out?

Obviously, 4 of the 7 guys would have no one to pair with. One of those guys who can't even find a date will be above average. How about the other 3 guys? Well, the top guy of the 7 would probably pair of with the best looking girl of the 3. Since he's #1 of 7 and she's #1 of 3, he's probably more attractive, but let's say he's willing to reach down a bit. So then guy #2 of 7 would be left to pair with girl #2 of 3, who presumably represents the average American girl. But wait- the average American girl is overweight. That means only 1 out of the 7 guys will be able to pair off with a non-fattie. That's not even accounting for the hypergamy effect where the top guys monopolize multiple women, so in reality it's probably even worse. Not just multiply out the number of people in this situation and you have online dating in the US.

In short- A 7:3 ratio, coupled with an obesity epidemic, all but guarantees you'll get a raw deal in terms of your results.

Quote:EVERY place has been better than my home base in terms of the quality and personality of the girls through chat. Philippines, Scandinavian, Ukraine, Columbia, Mexico, China. Of course since I'm not there I'm not sure the ease of the bang.

China? CHINA?! The poster child for selectively aborting girl fetuses? That one surprises me...

Post: #12

My experience confirms these results.

DrewP:

What is the name of the city?

You haven't been to that city, correct? Have you been anywhere else in Asia?

I would suggest actually going to that city for a couple of weeks and continuing your experiment on the ground. If you plan it right, it's not going to be that expensive. You can get a ticket for airmiles/credit card points or hack the fare. There are threads on RVF with examples and a lot of good advice. Once you're there, everything is much cheaper than in the US. While in the States, skip a few nights out, stop going to the Starbucks, cancel a bunch of dates with entitled bitches, downgrade the dates you don't cancel to walks in the park and cooking/drinking at home and boom! You've saved enough money for your Asian adventure.

The test results are very valuable, but this kind of research without practice is just mental mastrubation.

Post: #13

(12-14-2014 08:36 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  My experience confirms these results.

DrewP:

What is the name of the city?

You haven't been to that city, correct? Have you been anywhere else in Asia?

I would suggest actually going to that city for a couple of weeks and continuing your experiment on the ground.

I did exactly what you say here.

The result is described in my thread "Even I couldn't Fail in The Philippines."

The (Poor!) Asian preference for white dudes is very, very real and results in some cases, in women who would call the cops on you in the States gladly fucking you on the first date here.

And I'm somewhat fat and over 55. And not paying them.

Important Note: At least for me, this definitely NOT true for Asians from the wealthy Asian countries (Basically Japan and Korea)

Post: #14

A couple more comments now that I've shut down the profile:

The city I tested was Manila. I just didn't want to compromise my identity before.

Also, before shutting down I took one last look through my messages. I know I mentioned this initially, but it bears repeating... good god were some of those girls hot. It is just so surreal to be actively pursued by type of girl who, if I came across her profile in the US I'd think "should I even bother?" because I'd know the chances of her responding would be slim to none.

You know that slightly depressed feeling you get when you arrive back home from an amazing vacation are re-introduced the humdrum reality of your typical life? That was my feeling as soon as I went back to looking at my US account and all of the wonderful options it offers.