Post: #1

Roosh has a classic blog post about never letting a girl reject you twice.

It's worth it to read or reread the whole thing, that being said, here are the main points I want to focus on:

Roosh V Wrote:Even though she’s not interested, she will encourage the hell out of you just to get you to keep trying, all so that she can receive a big validation boost (something she will never admit to wanting).
...
If she ends the conversation first on her own volition, meaning there was no cockblock or fire in the bar, it’s 100% over.

What are your redlines when hitting on a chick where you decide that she seems to be encouraging you, but in reality is just leading you on? Most men are so thirsty that ANY semblance of a green light from a girl makes them go into tunnel vision and assume that the lay is guaranteed, even though it's one green light amongst many red lights (i.e., mixed signals, and we all know what that means).

Recently, I was out solo and started chatting up two German tourists. They told me they were only in town for three days. In my mind I thought that's a great sign that they're down for random sex, but I kept my cool. I started chatting with the two of them, and, to my chagrin, I couldn't build rapport with the cuter of the two because the uglier one was being much more talkative.

Then some guy started talking to the uglier one, allowing me to get into a 1-on-1 conversation with the cuter one. The guy, like an idiot, bought all four of us chasers, and the girl I was talking to a cocktail.

We talked for close to an hour, and during that time the following happened (no particular order):
-I suggested a venue change to a place nearby about halfway through that she rejected.
-I put my arm around her waist, she didn't say anything or move it away, but she didn't lean in to me or reciprocate in any way, making it feel awkward, and preventing further escalation.
-She let other guys hit on her while I sat there.
-She took a selfie of her and I together (shouldn't have let her do this, whatever).

In regards to the selfie, I told her to send me the picture over What's App, which she did (important for later).

Then, without saying anything, both the German chicks got up, and walked away out of sight. I started mentally kicking myself for allowing the conversation to go on for more than thirty minutes without strong indicators of ONS potential.

I waited a few minutes, then left. I thanked the guy for the shots, and told him that I don't think they're down. He didn't agree, but then again, I don't trust the opinion of a guy whose game revolves around walking up to girls and buying them chasers and cocktails.

I walked to other bars in the area, but they were all closed.

As I get to the last good bar that I know of, and see that it's closed as well, I get a What's App message from the German saying "Where are you? You didn't say goodbye "

I wasn't far from the original bar where I met them. I could have easily walked there in five minutes. Most guys would interpret that message as a strong green light ("she totally wants to fuck you, bro!") but I took a minute to think about it.

First of all, it wasn't a guarantee of anything. More likely than not, by my estimation at least, she was looking for the ego boost of having a guy come running back to her, just so she could reject his advances again. Instead, I thought of Roosh's post, and reminded myself that I'm the prize. She had a chance, and she blew it. I'm not going to reward bad/disrespectful behavior, such as her getting up and not saying so much as "we'll be right back," expecting me to wait around like a lapdog.

I radio silenced her and went home.

Maybe you guys think this was a mistake, maybe not, either way I'd be interested to hear. Things like this take a lot of discipline that many men don't possess, especially since the allure of the unknown makes it so hard to justify NOT attempting or reattempting with a girl that's potentially down. By that I mean it's easy to get caught up in the male hamster trap that "you'll never know unless you try," or "you have nothing to lose" which are good mantras but only up to a certain point.

In most cases you'll never truly know if you were right or wrong, which is why doing this can be so tough. When you're drunk, horny, and out of prospects, it's not easy to think clearly. What stories or input do you have on the subject of calling it quits with a chick that seems to be stringing you on, whether it's related to my story or not?

tl;dr:
I met two tourists at a bar and got mixed signals. After I talked to one of them for about 45 minutes, they got up and walked off without saying anything, so I left the bar. Later, the one I was talking to texted me an encouraging message implying I should come "say goodbye." I felt like I was being used to stroke her ego, so I went home, despite being very close to the bar she was at.

Post: #2

I wouldn't go silent or non-responsive in these cases, because it basically guarantees a loss and she might chalk it up to you being drunk/phone dying/banging someone else

I'd most likely respond with a so-so answer, followed by a question ("I have a game of pool to play, sorry haha", or "sorry, went to go get food, how are you not hungry?")

Doesnt scream thirsty on your part and keeps the conversation going. She might be trying to set things up for another night if the logistics for that night are poor.

But basically, I think you have other options besides ego stroking and striking out. I think there's a middle ground

Post: #3

Your first mistake was not ejecting the second you heard they were German girls. Seriously, I haven't met girls who came off as being more asexual and frustrating to game than German ones - and I'm including the cunty-attitude girls of the Anglosphere.

Secondly, you did nowhere enough near escalation - especially considering they were German, and therefore are somewhat unsophisticated at social clues at the best of times. Unless you make your intentions blatantly clear through physical/verbal escalation like asking if they are single, going to the dancefloor, attempting the kiss, etc. they will friend-zone you instantly regardless of what you say. The idea of pickup or dating culture - what we in the Anglosphere would take as a given - would seem to most Germans to be weird and unnatural.

Regardless - the time to cut your losses is when she starts to resist your escalation attempts or allows situations where you can't escalate. Eg:

- you offer to go talk somewhere quieter (away from her friends) and she says no
- you suggest a venue change and she says no (like in your example)
- you suggest going to the dancefloor and she says she doesn't want to dance
- you can feel her resisting you dancing closer/more intimately on the dancefloor
- you feel like you're competing with her friends for conversation time / attention

But the best way of weeding out chicks who are wasting your time is by going for the kiss. You should be aiming for attempting the kiss by about the 25-30 minute mark, in my experience - that's about the maximum amount of time you should be willing to waste on a girl who ends up stringing you along.

If she doesn't want to go talk with you away from her friends, or doesn't want to go on the dancefloor, or doesn't let you gradually dance in a more intimate manner with her, then send her away and go find something else. Don't waste your time on bad leads.

Caveat to the above - if you go for the kiss and she stops you but still stays with you, that is a signal to keep pressing. A girl who genuinely does not have sexual interest in you will exit at that point. It's like LMR for when you're pushing to sex.

HSLD

Post: #4

(12-10-2014 12:09 PM)Sonoma Wrote:  I wouldn't go silent or non-responsive in these cases, because it basically guarantees a loss and she might chalk it up to you being drunk/phone dying/banging someone else

I'd most likely respond with a so-so answer, followed by a question ("I have a game of pool to play, sorry haha", or "sorry, went to go get food, how are you not hungry?")

Doesnt scream thirsty on your part and keeps the conversation going. She might be trying to set things up for another night if the logistics for that night are poor.

But basically, I think you have other options besides ego stroking and striking out. I think there's a middle ground

texting "sorry" or "sorry haha" to any girl who hasn't earned your respect is pretty much the definition of thirst and insecurity right there. I'd write something similar to you, but grown men don't need to apologize or "haha" every text line - just my 2c

Post: #5

You should have sent back something along the lines of 'I'm at my place. Come on over.' If she comes over she's likely DTF.

Post: #6

I get the point of "never let a girl reject you twice" but in this situation I think you took too hard of a line.

But really it all depends on how hungry you are. When I'm in the middle of a hot streak and I'm struggling to even find time to bang then I'm a lot harsher.

If I haven't been laid in a month I won't act desperate or pathetic but I'll be more forgiving.

You have to decide where your line is based on your situation. I would have probably texted something non-committal back.

It's your dick, so don't burn a prospect based on a principle that isn't very important to you but at the same time don't ever tolerate outright disrespect.

Post: #7

You did the right thing.

They expected you to hang around to kiss their asses some more when they came back from attention whoring and when you were gone you had the upper hand. They were trying to draw you back to regain control over you and inflate their egos. 99.7% chance you would never have banged her. The more girls you game the easier it gets to blow off psychic leeches like this.

Post: #8

(12-10-2014 11:42 AM)RealityCheck Wrote:  "Where are you? You didn't say goodbye "

Your initial game sounded ok, but the kino escalation to the waist sounded like a a "3-steps" forward kinda move. Best to start with light stuff like grabbing her hand, high-fiving her when she brags about something mundane, stuff like that.

The message was a shit test.

You should've responded.

"already miss me... awww!"

then she might reply something bla bla. Then you write that she should buy you a drink so you two can say a proper good bye.

The point is to 1) demonstrate value and once that's done, get her to comply/invest in the interaction. In this case, by buying you a drink. Total win/win

Post: #9

Mate im with you - you weren't too hard, remember the other law of gaming (thanks to Roosh) in conjunction with this one and that is the Boner Test - Do they pass?? Not sure about you but my Boner Test isn't fixed, somedays as long as she has tits and doesn't look like her face is used to make gorilla biscuits then she passes, other times a lot of the woman's interaction/social nuances can play a role.

From this end if it was me I would have done the same, if I didn't want to talk to the chubby I wouldn't have and I would have walked away from that interaction around the time she let other guys hit on her. In saying that I control the interaction - so I escalate or drop off on my own steam unless she's calling rape or actually makes a pretty clear signal that she doesn't want anything.

Post: #10

(12-10-2014 12:37 PM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  But the best way of weeding out chicks who are wasting your time is by going for the kiss. You should be aiming for attempting the kiss by about the 25-30 minute mark, in my experience - that's about the maximum amount of time you should be willing to waste on a girl who ends up stringing you along.

HSLD

Gangsta

Post: #11

I go out solo. When a girl is not interested in me at all, obviously I have to eject.
But when we are just talking and I know it would go nowhere, I still stay there while looking for a good target.
This is better especially in a small bar. If you eject, you will be hanging on your own till you talk to another one in her sight.

It's fun to turn your head in a noticeable manner when another girl walks by, just ditch her without even looking and approach that girl in front of the previous one. (the younger, the better)

Post: #12

(12-11-2014 04:30 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  It's fun to turn your head in a noticeable manner when another girl walks by, just ditch her without even looking and approach that girl in front of the previous one. (the younger, the better)

Seems like this could backfire if the second girl blows you out or rejects you quickly. It comes off as you trying to show the first chick up and make her feel bad. If that happens, then you're just left standing by yourself again anyway, and you feel like you "lost."

In a situation like that, where I can tell the girl is talking to me but not really interested, and the bar isn't that crowded, I'll do one of two things. If she's being genuinely friendly and investing in the conversation, but again, not interested, then I'll keep talking and politely excuse myself when I see something better. If she's talking to me but not being conversational, as in giving curt answers, not asking questions, or playing with her phone, I'll politely excuse myself even if there's no other prospects and go stand alone if I have to. It's a necessary part of rolling solo.

By "politely" I don't mean kissing her ass. Just ending the conversation with no burned bridges or negative feelings. No need to make enemies in the bar.

Post: #13

I understand you are well mannered person. I used to be very polite too.

But treat people how you want to be treated, doesn't exist in a bar.

You can approach girls in a nicest way possible but a good percentage of girls won't return such manners. I can't be mad at those girls though since I am the one who approached.
It's also my choice to leave them however I want.
I think they wouldn't give a flying fuck about how you left them as such a gentleman. I don't like doing things nobody would appreciate.
I also change my attitude depending on the place. If it was a social networking event, I would act differently. I don't expect girls behaving like they are in such events so that's why I wouldn't show such manners as well.

(12-11-2014 11:51 AM)RealityCheck Wrote:  

(12-11-2014 04:30 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  It's fun to turn your head in a noticeable manner when another girl walks by, just ditch her without even looking and approach that girl in front of the previous one. (the younger, the better)

Seems like this could backfire if the second girl blows you out or rejects you quickly. It comes off as you trying to show the first chick up and make her feel bad. If that happens, then you're just left standing by yourself again anyway, and you feel like you "lost."

In a situation like that, where I can tell the girl is talking to me but not really interested, and the bar isn't that crowded, I'll do one of two things. If she's being genuinely friendly and investing in the conversation, but again, not interested, then I'll keep talking and politely excuse myself when I see something better. If she's talking to me but not being conversational, as in giving curt answers, not asking questions, or playing with her phone, I'll politely excuse myself even if there's no other prospects and go stand alone if I have to. It's a necessary part of rolling solo.

By "politely" I don't mean kissing her ass. Just ending the conversation with no burned bridges or negative feelings. No need to make enemies in the bar.

Post: #14

i got reality check for you op. the only ego that got hurt was yours.

this situation had nothing to do with discipline etc. you met allegedly hot chick and it was going normal. but you waited for bunch of iois that she didn't give you so you took it personally and decided to give up.

when she texted you how easy it was to text back something like "shit it's true it can't be like that! come to xyz place for a huge hug if you really care".

she texted either to see you again or to get you to respond to feel better about herself. even if the latter is true would that be really so damaging to your self esteem? come on dude you don't know what's going on with those girls and what makes them do what they do. who cares? just do what you want and take advantage of opportunities as they appear.

i see this a lot on forums and real life. guys worry way too much whether some girl likes them or not. the fact you worry is what makes you unattractive in the first place. like on one hand you wanna escalate. but on the other hand you need all the signals in the world to be sure you can make a move to preserve self image in case you misfire.

that's not how getting a girl is done. get rid of that big pimp self image do things you want to do.