Post: #1

Perusing the more obscure corners of the internet, as I do from time to time, I stumbled upon some discussion about the role of the Swastika and European history.

My knowledge of the Swastika has for the most time been limited to the 'reverse Swastika' which the Nazis used and that it was a symbol used in Hinduism.

My surprise was noticeable when I read, on Wikipedia no less, that the first Swastika symbol ever found is 10.000 years old on a mammoth tooth in present day Ukraine.

Quote:The earliest known object with swastika-motifs is a bird from the tusk of a mammoth from the paleolithic settlement of Mezine, Ukraine dated to 10,000 BCE.[13]

What is even more surprising is the proliferation of Swastikas in Ancient Europe:

Etruscan emblem with Swastika, 700 BC:



Several swastika found in Germanic and Norse iron age: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_%2...ron_Age%29

Comb, Denmark, 400 AD



Oseberg Ship, Sweden, 800 AD



Anglo-Saxon: 600 AD



There are many more from Roman, Greek and Byzantine pottery with Swastikas:



Strange thing indeed, this Hindu symbol being used so widely in Iron age Europe.

Then again, there used to be this widely accepted hypothesis called the Aryan Invasion Theory, where as a people from Caucasus, riding on horses, conquered their way from there into Europe over Little Asia into India, where they founded a culture and instituted the Caste system, based on color (light to dark), as to keep themselves at the top.

After WW2, the Aryans were replaced with the more PC term Indo-European of course.

Now, another hidden fact of mainstream history is the widespread acceptance in late 1800 century that the Swastika was indeed an Aryan symbol and part of the original European religion, which had been lost under the Dark Ages of Christianity.

It became a very popular symbol at the same time Nietzche attacked Christianity as being proto-marxism.

Windsor Hockey Team:



American Basketball Team:



Young Lady with the latest fashion:



All quite interesting or what do you think?

Post: #2

It was American Indian also. Check out the US Army 45th Infantry Division's patch just prior to WWII...

Post: #3

Been used in India for thousands of years, in fact many temples have them littered on manuscripts, books and in the architecture.

Post: #4

BBC Documentary - The Story of The Swastika

Post: #5

Japan, also.

http://www.japanese-buddhism.com/swastika.html

Quote:The Swastika in the East

The crooked cross is a historical sacred symbol in all
Indian religions. It is used in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. It rose
to importance in Buddhism during the Mauryan
Empire and in Hinduism with the decline of Buddhism in
India during the Gupta Empire. It followed the silk road with
Buddhism to reach Tibet and China. The symbol was also introduced
to Bali with Hinduism by Hindu kings. The use of the
swastika by the Bon faith of Tibet, as well as later
religions like Cao Dai of Vietnam and Falun
Gong of China, can also be traced to Buddhist influence.

In Buddhism, it is said that Gautama Buddha (the historical Buddha)
was inscribed with this symbol on the chest by his disciples upon his
death. We often see statues of him with this symbol on the chest or on
the sole of the feet. It represent infinity in tibet and China.

Many Buddhist texts start with this symbol, thus it has started being
used in Japan as a symbol representing temples, especially on maps as
the torii gate represents Shinto shrines.
[…]
In Japan, the swastika is called manji 万字, which comes
from China. The first character, man, means 10,000 which is a big enough
number to represent a myriad, or infinity. The second one, ji, is
simply character. thus it is called the infinity character.

It is usually facing counter-clockwise. Meaning that the
arms of the cross are turning in a counter-clockwise pattern. This being
said, it is not uncommon to see it facing the other way and it is
called a mirror-image of the manji.

The signification is the same though and it is still not associated with the Nazis in anyway.

Post: #6

Ok, let me state my hypothesis so it is clear:

The Swastika is an Aryan/Indo-European symbol that came to India with foreign invasion and spread from there. The occurrence of swastikas in other parts of Asia is from Buddhism (which took with it Hinduist symbols), so that is not difficult to get.

What is interesting is the findings of swastikas in iron age Europe, including isolated Northern Europe and the very old Ukrainian mammoth tooth.

That leaves only a couple of options:

1) Swastika is Aryan and was spread to India and also Europe from these Aryan invasions, the Aryans originating from Caucasus and present day Ukraine.

2) The Swastika originates in India and spread from India to Europe very early.

3) The Swastika is a collective unconscious thing (Jung), which is why different cultures had it.

I lean towards 1), since Sanskrit is the oldest Indo-European language we know of and we can basically trace the movements of the Indo-European people, identical with what was called Aryan people in the past. That is why there are Swastikas all over Europe. This is a remnant of ancient Aryan culture and also a suggestion that Hinduism is highly inspired by these outside forces.

We should compare the original European paganism to Hinduism to better understand this. The use and search for enlightenment, through oracles and truthseers, overlap of Germanic and Greek gods with Hindu gods.

I have little to no knowledge as to any overlaps in regards to Hinduism and Greek/Germanic gods, but it would be a very interesting study.

And if this hypothesis is true, then it could explain why so many white people go on spiritual journeys to India. Perhaps they sense some long lost resonating of spirituality of ancient Europe lost after christianity.

Post: #7

I like the theory that it symbolises "infinity", or at the very least a very very long time, just like the ring today. I suppose in part the Nazi's thought this as well, and that it supported their idea of a "Thousand Year Reich". For me the lesson for today is that any social movement that believes and states forcefully that their way of thinking will last for a very long time is, essentially, fascist. Only because nothing really lasts for a thousand years, or anywhere close. Trying to make it so means you will have to repress the people when they inevitably get sick of the current status quo. i.e fascism.

Incidentally, way back when I was a teenager I somehow had a T-Shirt that had a "hidden" swastika on it. Was related to either American Indian or Hinduism, not sure which. Anyway, it was definitely a conversation starter since I was definitely no "neo nazi" or skinhead.

I'm curious. Obviously in the West the symbol is now taboo, but is it still used in current societies in South and East Asia?

Post: #8

(12-02-2014 11:44 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  I'm curious. Obviously in the West the symbol is now taboo, but is it still used in current societies in South and East Asia?

Absolutely. You can regularly find them in Hindu and Buddhist temples.

Post: #9

(12-02-2014 12:04 PM)Saga Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 11:44 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  I'm curious. Obviously in the West the symbol is now taboo, but is it still used in current societies in South and East Asia?

Absolutely. You can regularly find them in Hindu and Buddhist temples.

You only have to go as far as Google Maps to still see them designating temples in Japan.
   

Post: #10

(12-01-2014 08:21 PM)berserk Wrote:  Ok, let me state my hypothesis so it is clear:

The Swastika is an Aryan/Indo-European symbol that came to India with foreign invasion and spread from there. The occurrence of swastikas in other parts of Asia is from Buddhism (which took with it Hinduist symbols), so that is not difficult to get.

What is interesting is the findings of swastikas in iron age Europe, including isolated Northern Europe and the very old Ukrainian mammoth tooth.

That leaves only a couple of options:

1) Swastika is Aryan and was spread to India and also Europe from these Aryan invasions, the Aryans originating from Caucasus and present day Ukraine.

2) The Swastika originates in India and spread from India to Europe very early.

3) The Swastika is a collective unconscious thing (Jung), which is why different cultures had it.

I lean towards 1), since Sanskrit is the oldest Indo-European language we know of and we can basically trace the movements of the Indo-European people, identical with what was called Aryan people in the past. That is why there are Swastikas all over Europe. This is a remnant of ancient Aryan culture and also a suggestion that Hinduism is highly inspired by these outside forces.

We should compare the original European paganism to Hinduism to better understand this. The use and search for enlightenment, through oracles and truthseers, overlap of Germanic and Greek gods with Hindu gods.

I have little to no knowledge as to any overlaps in regards to Hinduism and Greek/Germanic gods, but it would be a very interesting study.

And if this hypothesis is true, then it could explain why so many white people go on spiritual journeys to India. Perhaps they sense some long lost resonating of spirituality of ancient Europe lost after christianity.

Someone beat you to it. When I typed into google "european paganism and...." hinduism was the immediately suggested search result.

Here's the wikipedia article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-...n_religion

Apparently Indra (hindu god) and Zeus both have lighting bolts as weapons. There are other similarities as well.
http://www.spiritualliving360.com/index....ods-16559/

There's something odd about the shape of a swastika that connects in the mind. They're pleasing to look at it. Does anyone else experience this?

Post: #11

There is a small town in northern canada named Swastika http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika,_Ontario its origins are pre-WWII and no one is keen to change it...which is amazing for Canada.

I just think no one knows about it as its way off of the beaten path.

Post: #12

Or maybe it is an easily drawn figure

Post: #13

Under the influence of psychedelics I have on multiple occasions seen swastikas and other universal symbols and geometric patterns (and some unfamiliar symbols) when sitting in the dark with eyes closed. Perhaps there is a connection in a common consciousness than spans cultures that can be plugged into via certain natural substances or trance, a sort of download of at times incomprehensible information, inspiring early cultures to make art and architecture with similar symbols and geometry. Fun to think about at least.

Post: #14

I have seen the swastika in many places during my travels. Namely Vietnam and Bali.