Post: #1

In just about every single discussion in the seduction community, the topic of "AFC" or "Beta" friends always comes up.

A lot of times, when people try to help them and introduce them to some sort of seduction literature, the offer is met with ridicule and contempt, because they dont wanna be a "manipulative jerk" or "wear silly hats like that VH1 Mystery guy", or whatever other kind of reason they throw out.

It is perfectly understandable - a lot of these guys think that they don't have a problem and they just need to grind it out with their failures until someone sees them for the special angel that they are.

They won't listen to anything..... except shock.

I remember when I first started browsing seduction forums (mainly mASF), the thing that made me want to learn "game" the most was a story about a guy fucking up and doing everything "right" (in a pedestalizing way). After doing a little searching - I found the story:
http://www.pickupguide.com/how-not-to-do-a-pickup/

When I was helping a friend of mine trying to go out and meet girls after his divorce, he wouldn't listen to ANYTHINg i said, until i played for him the infamous audio of the guy that won Beta of the Year at roissy's site (if you haven't listened to it, prepare to cringe):
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1...odcast.mp3


Stories like that accomplish one thing - they make you realize that the "conventional" way of meeting women is flawed and there MUST be a better way. Now, we can debate the merits of one seduction strategy over another, but we can all agree - don't be a man bitch, and that realization is an incredible start for everyone.

So, what are your collections of stories that you use to "shock" your friends into realizing they need to improve their love life? Has anything shocked you?
I want to make a good list and post it to my blog so that people have a nice reference point to starting game.



also, Roosh's Compliment and Cuddle is by far one of the best shock stories I've ever read. If that doesn't make you cringe then you are not human.

Post: #2

I don't shock them. I show them. I can guarantee them that I will get lots of pussy and then when I am ready to get married, I will make a choice based on experience instead of going on the basis of some emotionally loaded female.

While they are there cupcaking with their wife and lusting after other females, I am there in reality acting out THEIR fantasies, getting simultaneously blown by women of different races while I'm sitting in my pyjamas eating cornflakes...

Post: #3

That first link is just sad but its really how most guys are. Ill check out the mp3 later on. Does anyone have a link to Roosh's Compliment and Cuddle?

Post: #4

Ive tried with my buddies..most of them are world class cockblockers and cant stand to watch anybody with good game(not that mine is so great) but better than most. Ive tried countless times to turn some of them into good wingmen with no luck.I get the " Im not like you" when we start talking about this subject.The only "shock" to them is when im leaving with something nice.Then starts the calls and texts till 4 am.

Post: #5

Roosh yesterday: Never fight a beta male's battle. Even though you're doing him a favor, he'll resent you for bringing his weak character out in the open.

I have had this exact experience with a couple of friends who as far as I know are still virgins. Girls, if they are the least bit attractive, make my friends into stuttering piles of jelly placed directly into the friend zone. Any time I have tried to tackle this problem head-on, some kind of resentment tends to rear its ugly head, and but being gingerly and talking around the problem doesn't accomplish anything either.

I know, I know, I shouldn't give so much of a shit, but these are my boys. They nurse year-long crushes, put girls on a pedestal, etc. Even at my most beta, I was never this bad. Well, maybe in junior high school when my voice was cracking. But these guys are about to hit thirty, and fear of rejection still paralyzes them completely. And it depresses the hell out of them, which they will almost never admit.

Is game like religion, only those ready to believe can take that first step? Or is there a way to convince someone to open up and stop being so much of a wuss without them taking it personal?

Post: #6

Find new friends that are like-minded.

Or you can stay with your old 'friends' that are dragging you down.

Post: #7

(04-19-2011 12:51 PM)Ajiaco Wrote:  Roosh yesterday: Never fight a beta male's battle. Even though you're doing him a favor, he'll resent you for bringing his weak character out in the open.

As I've said before, I gave up on trying to convert guys to game years ago, friends or otherwise.

1. I don't care if there are a few more frustrated betas walking around. The 80-20 Rule (80 percent of the girls being fucked by 20 percent of the dudes) will always hold.

2. Like Roosh pointed out, I've learned betas just end up resenting you for trying to help them. They'll insist their way is correct, even though it never got them any tail and you're getting laid on the regular. They. Will. Find. Another. Reason. Why.

I have several friends that have been demoted to occasional hang-outs for Reason #2. It's well-documented that these type of dudes not only drag your game down by looking and acting lame, they often actively cockblock you.

Don't bother trying to "shock" guys into game. I think it's one of those things you have seek out yourself, in order for it to be effective. Most guys want a quick short-cut to getting laid. I recently had a dude I'd just met approach me and start grilling me about my game. He'd been eagle-eyeing me all night and noticed I had the stuff. He was hungry for game and he was a believer. That's a guy you can convert.

Game is a lifelong pursuit. Most dudes aren't that committed or capable.

Post: #8

I love Roses, the fact that 99.5 does it (and I've met the whole cast) here in DC is awesome. They'll never get me though.

Yeah I've got some beta/omega friends that I don't think could ever be brought back from the brink. Most are too stubborn or deluded in their own way of thinking. One friend of mine pedestals his girlfriend from college so bad that he flies halfway across the country to see her every few months. She abuses him and takes advantage of him and he's pussy whipped (she's a 4).

Post: #9

Do we really want to force the betas out of their ways though? This is hypothetical but couldn't doing that kinda piss in the pool for those of us that are enlightened too all of this? I was beta as all hell just 6 months ago and no one gave me a hand. In fact everyone I knew kept feeding me the same old bullshit that put me in the spot I was in.

Eventually I hit that breaking point where I said to myself, enough is enough. I didn't even go looking for it actively. I indirectly found Roosh's site while googling "best bars for single men in DC" Its not obvious but just googling that showed that I was starting to get away from the beta "nice guy" mentality and making the natural change to what I should be.

If they want to change they will, if not they're just gonna get ground up into fuel to keep the machine working

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #10

Why are so many guys beta? I've tried to convert a few people and they get pissed. Its a real sensitive subject and they know what they're doing is wrong

Post: #11

How do you guys know so many guys like this?

I can't say I know a single one personally.

You need to surround yourself with G's.

Or at least people that bring something to the table ie an accountant who might not be a G but is good at doing your books.

Post: #12

When I was getting into game all my friends were beta. They have all been replaced. It takes quite a few years to ditch the dead weight.

Post: #13

(04-19-2011 07:07 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  How do you guys know so many guys like this?

I can't say I know a single one personally.

Well, I'm phasing them out. I hope to be able to say this very soon.

In my case, I think it's attributable to some of my non-game activities and obligations, which tend to attract a lamer crowd. Plus, some of them are grandfathered in from ancient times, when I was less aware of other dudes' effect on my game, and probably less aware of game altogether.

Post: #14

(04-19-2011 12:08 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  So, what are your collections of stories that you use to "shock" your friends into realizing they need to improve their love life? Has anything shocked you?

A lot of things have come together over time for me. They aren't really "stories". They're just realizations I've picked up over time.

1) I was extremely horny and sick of it.
2) I was in my mid-twenties and not getting younger. I figure that one day I'd be old and regretting my celibate youth.
3) A lot of the men I knew in my life had fucked up with women big time. Some married women who were clearly not good for them. I wasn't going to lock myself into a life with such a person, especially when I hadn't gotten many sexual experiences out of my system.
4) My current job has brought me in contact with lots of attractive women shopping with their boyfriends. This serves as a constant reminder of what I could have if I just put some effort in.

I've met a number of fat chicks who don't know how to lose weight. I've attempted to tell them the basics about nutrition and exercise, but that only leads to them getting pissed. People don't change their habits until they realize the consequences of them not changing. Unfortunately, it's difficult, especially when you are young, to realize how little time you have. That realization was the "shock" for me.

I like Moma's "don't shock them, show them" philosophy. If you're really that worried about a friend you might want to convince them to "hang out" and attempt to pick up while you're out. If they refuse to go out then they're simply not ready to change.

(04-19-2011 12:51 PM)Ajiaco Wrote:  Is game like religion, only those ready to believe can take that first step? Or is there a way to convince someone to open up and stop being so much of a wuss without them taking it personal?

The simple act of attempting to convince someone of anything often leads the to close themselves off. I think "offering advice" is more effective than "trying to sell someone on something".

Post: #15

Roosh and Tuthmosis -

Good to hear.

Yeah, this is a key to life not just Game.

You really have to surround yourself with dope people to help achieve your goals.

Post: #16

Giving them concrete advice and goals to work toward is much better than insulting them and ditching them. Everyone has to start somewhere - even Roosh, who went from zero to hero. BUt it's up to them whether they take your advice or not. Even if you have mastered the fine art of not giving a shit about other people, letting betas stew in their own rage creates George Sodinis, who are bad for your health. Not everyone is born a G, or has someone to show them how to be one.

Post: #17

(04-19-2011 08:56 PM)thecrazyfool Wrote:  Giving them concrete advice and goals to work toward is much better than insulting them and ditching them. Everyone has to start somewhere - even Roosh, who went from zero to hero. BUt it's up to them whether they take your advice or not. Even if you have mastered the fine art of not giving a shit about other people, letting betas stew in their own rage creates George Sodinis, who are bad for your health. Not everyone is born a G, or has someone to show them how to be one.

The whole gist of this thread was that guys who refuse the red pill don't actually want your advice and thus, aren't really helping you to achieve your goals. G is right, it's like anything in life (business or game), you want to surround yourself with other smart, dedicated, successful people who share similar ideals.

The point is that guys who refuse to change stubbornly remain betas and aren't worth the time -- they will only drag you down and hold you back from getting what you want out of life. I don't waste my time on people who choose to refuse my help.

Post: #18

I don't even bother showing my friends game....'cuz I don't have any beta friends that put up with shit from women. If they are beta losers, and insist on continuing that lifestyle, they're not part of my social circle.

Mixx

Post: #19

"surround yourself with other smart, dedicated, successful people who share similar ideals."

That's how you get places. That's it.

I had a beta roommate. It was a frustrating waste of time to try and convince him of anything. He denied reality. You can't reach these people.

--tc

Post: #20

I can clearly remember a friend of mine saying the same stupid things to me 2 days ago. He was saying "i dont wanna be like you want to be" (yeah im making big effort to change my game, i even approach 30 year olds). He kept goin on like this "Im romantic guy and want to get into relationship". We are so young and he grows with that kind of mindset while im trying to grow with the "game guy" mindset.

There was a girl in our school and he was interested on her but wouldnt do a move on her. So i did a move on her and my friend physically cockblocked me. Its gonna be impossible for him to change till he is 25 and still frustrated.

Post: #21

You have to be able to judge what kindoff guy is willing to learn to introduce them. Most guys refuse to learn.

I got lucky recently and met a new friend and introduced him to game. Our Physics teacher had paired us together for the final as "punishment" as we had both skipped the Friday before and she wouldn't let us join another group. I really have to thank her for introducing me to my new wing. We were working on our project when I decided to test the subject on girls... I found out that he was picked up by a girl in the mall. Aka she gave him her number. I asked him if he had ever talked to girls in the mall, he said no. However he was open minded so I decided to introduce him to my friends. We decided he was cool enough to introduce him to game. We basically explained what we did and went over a bunch of concepts. We talked about the deeper level of game and not the surface level(aka more inner game stuff). This guy already is fine with girls but was hooked by the self improvement aspect.

We took him out on Friday and an experienced friend joined us(who has a great vibe and made us do missions). We had a blast and he loved it. Me and him had dinner and talked a lot of life in general. He's one of the few guys in high school who really has his shit together and wants to excel. He wants to learn pickup for the self improvement and doesn't care that much for the poon. The fact that we made it fun for him on his first day really impressed him. It was also great that our older friend also made a great impression on him when we worked out in the gym by showing him new exercises and debating fitness with him. He basically saw he was amongst people who were also motivated to excel. The fact is that we gave him a near perfect impression of the game and the people involved and he was already open minded.

The fact that he's in the game for self improvement will be deadly as he has barely any outcome dependence. He already has the mindsets thats taken me 6 months to develop.

I agree with the comments about surrounding yourself with successful people.

Post: #22

Men are stubborn. Some guys need to experience enough pain before they change. I was like that, and so is just about everyone else I know. Men need to learn the hard way.

(04-19-2011 07:13 PM)Roosh Wrote:  When I was getting into game all my friends were beta. They have all been replaced. It takes quite a few years to ditch the dead weight.

What do we mean by beta's... guys who actively put you down because of your lifestyle, or men who just suck with women?

I can understand why you'd want to avoid men who criticize you for your lifestyle, but why choose friends based on their ability with women? As long as they do not hurt your sex life, what difference does it make?

You can never know too many people.

Post: #23

Most guys looking at books or sites about seduction would just think it's a scam, like any self-help book.

But if you just drop little things one at a time to try to help your clueless friends, it's all good.

Difference is huge between talking about ''neg theory'' vs saying ''yeah, you gotta knock girls down a notch or else they think they're hot shit''

Dropping little bits of knowledge, combined with consistent good results, will get your friends to pay attention to what you say/do with chicks.

Post: #24

one of my friend used to give presents to girls and listening to their problems ..and spending lots of money on them...and in the result hes been getting ditched by many girls and left heart broken....still he never admitted that he has the problem.

now (after 8 years)..hes totally vice versa...fucking chicks and dumping them...treating them like a shit..living a happy gaming life.

i agree with Roosh...it takes time.

Post: #25

I ditched many friends way back when I went over to being "enlightened". The thing is that while I replaced many of them briefly with people in the game, many of my new friends were completely unable to look at the world in anything but game terms. With some you could never relax because they had to be alpha every second and any joke, remark or input had to pass that filter which made for some very silly confrontations not worthy of grown men. I still keep in contact with these people from time to time when I go out but they have become cynical and paranoid about The game and its contraptions. Anyone else experienced this?