Post: #26

Most people leave in February, you will be going to discos in the smog wearing face masks (http://www.legalnomads.com/2012/03/air-n...and.html).

I would head over to HCM to continue the cafe hustle, great group of guys there who can help with your biz. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUKKSVVAYTk).

Post: #27

(11-11-2014 09:25 PM)Tesseract Wrote:  I may have been a bit to rash in my moving to CM statement.

Realized if I go there at the beginning of February I have one month before they start burning the fields and pollution sky rockets. No interest in having to move after a month, because fuck shitloads of pollution.

Chiang Mai sounds awesome and I want to go, but I may leave it until later.

Going to PM some guys in this thread who have been there, but can anyone comment about air pollution in the dry months (February to April)?

(11-09-2014 10:06 PM)UberBicep Wrote:  There is absolutely zero reason why most people cannot be making $1000/month (which is just about a liveable amount in CM, definitely in HCM) in a short space of time. Knowing the right people, hard grind and a bit of luck will get you there. Get yourself into some masterminds in these cities, with people with various skill sets, like developers, marketers, copywriters or currency traders... its really easy to do so. Masterminds are a great way to discuss business problems in detail with people doing the exact same thing as you.

Once you're setup with decent income the location isn't really an issue since you can hop on a plain and go meet some people, like for e.g. masterminds.

Excellent .

Yeah we actually have a Mastermind group going on here in Toronto - bunch of guys trying to get location independent businesses off the ground, though I think I'm the one taking it the most seriously (some guys have school, one does work part-time for another biz that is not location independent, and another has commitment issues ). But I also have a surrounding of guys in copywriting and marketing. Once my first book is written (planning to finish it end of November), I think I've got a fair shot of success. And even if it fails, I've got a few months before I get into the bad zone and need $$ lol.

It's a blast though, and I'm working on something I love... So it's easier to grind day in and day out.

(11-10-2014 01:49 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Beyond Borders Wrote:Every online discussion I come across discussing location independence touts Chiang Mai these days. I can only imagine how much it has changed just in the past couple 2 or 3 years since I've seen it. At this point, and this from someone who was very stoked on that city, I'd say give it a miss and discover a new place where you'll be a bit more of a novelty.

This is precisely the reason I am about to skip on Chiang Mai. I had planned on setting up shop this winter there to get an ecommerce biz off the ground as there are a lot of like minded people (mainly from the DC). However, after having done more research and talking to guys who have been living there and elsewhere, specially in Vietnam, I'm more and more looking like posting up in Vietnam. Even more so after this fantastic Da Nang data sheet posted recently by Papi Rico:
/thread-41638.html

From the looks of it, Da Nang has everything someone bootstrapping or working on getting a new biz off the ground would be looking for: cheap cost of living, high quality of life, clean, a beach, not too much pollution, safe, decent night life but not too big to be a distraction and a decent enough community of expats and DCers. The kind of people you'd be looking to interact and network with.

Teeseract, give that Da Nang data sheet a good read and I'm sure it'll make you at the very least, reconsider your decision to post up in Chiang Mai. Btw, when is your departure date?

Could Da Nang be the Chiang Mai on the beach? From the sound of it, it does look like it is.

All the best and keep us updated man!

Cheers.

Actually as I was trolling RooshV randomly I saw that datasheet. Cost of living looks good too! You say there's a good community of expats? Where did you hear that from? I haven't heard much about the city anywhere else so no info to compare it to .

Like I mentioned, planned departure date is end of January 2015 . Buying a ticket end of November to make sure I get my ass going (I like to procrastinate on things that give me anxiety - but two months to prepare is plenty - already did a HUGE purge of stuff and moved everything online before starting my business).

(11-11-2014 07:04 PM)fucksong Wrote:  How is the healthcare of Vietnam compared to say Thailand or any of the other places listed? OP is a young guy but even one serious accident could F up everything..

Would like to know this too!



Choices now are between:

1. Chiang Mai (if the pollution isn't ridiculous in dry months)
2. Ho Chi Mien
3. Da Nang?
4. Guangzhou (could start off here with my bud and move on thereafter - also results in cheaper airfare, I think like $100 vs. $600 after using travelhacking)

Living in Chiang Mai during burning season is a serious health risk. I usually leave Chiang Mai from at least March 1st until Songkran (they stop burning during Songkran). The choking smog usually ends when Songkran starts but depending on the weather/crops and farmers/hilltribes they may even burn after Songkran. I was actually in CM for most of the month of March last year because I was doing especially well with the local stunners (finally started to speak Thai). The pollution from burning was actually worse last March than it was the last time I had the pleasure of inhaling it (3 years ago). A little bit of advice that is noteworthy and mentioned by Rio Nomad, Vacancier Permanent and Afarang with respect to Bangkok; DRESS WELL. It doesn't matter where you are in Thailand, BK, CM Udon, Korat or anywhere in Thailand, you will perceived by the way you dress. I even place bets with a couple of guys I go out with here in CM on how many other 'farangs' we will see out that night not wearing shorts.

Post: #28

(11-12-2014 12:21 AM)UberBicep Wrote:  Most people leave in February, you will be going to discos in the smog wearing face masks (http://www.legalnomads.com/2012/03/air-n...and.html).

This is a drastic overexaggeration.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #29

Chiang Mai — Recommendable simply due to how easy it is move there, but it’s bit too touristy, a bit too digital nomady, and there’s the burning season issue. It is a nice place to be Nov-Feb, when the weather is cooler and there is not much rain. The low costs are offset by needing a motorcycle. You don’t absolutely need one, but you will want one. Also, if you’re using points to go to CM and it still costs $700, that is a really bad value for an award ticket.

Bali is also a bit too touristy, without the benefit of having a strong community, fast internet, and good weather that Chiang Mai (sometimes) has. It doesn’t seem like a good place to get work done, and you also kind of need a motorcycle here. Doesn't have great healthcare.

Bangkok, HCMC, Manila, Guangzhou — I feel like staying in a big city is somewhat wasting location independence due to the higher costs, especially if you have not reached a high income yet. Too small/remote is also not good though, which I say rules out Davao.

Since you have a friend in Guangzhou and it's cheap for you to fly there, it's worth considering and also it's the only one with a language that's really worth learning. You could check out Kunming and maybe relocate there later if you like it, for lower costs, nice weather year round and less pollution.

Cebu should be considered. It has very little language barrier, you don't need a motorcycle, visa is easy, girls are easy, almost everything is easy. It's not easy to find decent internet, but possible. Weather is very hot and humid. It could be the perfect place for a first trip to Asia, even if you don't intend to stay there for a very long time. CM's main advantages over Cebu are the weather in Nov-Feb, and the community.

DaNang is not a bad place, but it's not recommendable as a place for your first move to Asia. It's not as easy to get set up here, and that will probably distract you from working. I'm also not sure if it's a place you would want to spend a very long time, (6+ months) because it's kind of small and I'm not sure if learning Vietnamese is worthwhile.

So, Cebu/CM for easiness and low costs. Maybe China if you want to invest in learning Chinese and appreciate cooler weather.

Post: #30

(11-12-2014 10:32 AM)dodol Wrote:  Too small/remote is also not good though, which I say rules out Davao.

I'm not sure where people get this impression that Davao is some tiny city, but it has a larger population than Chiang Mai and Da Nang put together. I also fail to see how it's any more remote than either city, other than the fact that you have to fly and don't have the option of riding a bus or train for hours.

Davao City is also twice as populated as Cebu City, it's simply more spread out. That goes along with being cheaper and vastly more safe and less polluted.

Many of OP's criteria have already ruled out Davao -- and the Phils in general -- though, either way.

Post: #31

(11-12-2014 11:46 AM)Enigma Wrote:  

(11-12-2014 10:32 AM)dodol Wrote:  Too small/remote is also not good though, which I say rules out Davao.

I'm not sure where people get this impression that Davao is some tiny city, but it has a larger population than Chiang Mai and Da Nang put together. I also fail to see how it's any more remote than either city, other than the fact that you have to fly and don't have the option of riding a bus or train for hours.

Davao City is also twice as populated as Cebu City, it's simply more spread out. That goes along with being cheaper and vastly more safe and less polluted.

Many of OP's criteria have already ruled out Davao -- and the Phils in general -- though, either way.

When I said small/remote, I was not only talking about population size, city area or flight connections. Although it is less convenient in flight connections, maybe that doesn't matter very much.

I haven't been to Davao, but the impression I get is that it's kind of an undeveloped backwater type of place, and I would compare it to Medan/Surabaya in Indonesia, both places that may be cheaper but remain undesirable to live in.

I might have used the wrong words, but I felt like the meaning I intended was implied.

A few concrete examples of what I mean would be that it's probably harder to find good international food in Davao, Cebu has a Regus location (10+Mbps internet there) while Davao does not, and I imagine that Davao has a less interesting population of foreigners than Cebu. It probably has worse internet service.

I guess I should have said that big cities are better avoiding if you haven't achieved enough income yet, but don't focus so much on reducing costs that you choose some place that sucks, like Davao (seems to, to me).

I didn't feel like Cebu was too dangerous, but definitely seedy with annoying people in some areas. I think you are right though that Davao is safer and less polluted but I don't know if the difference is large enough to be a significant advantage.

I don't think the OP's criteria have ruled out Cebu. It may not meet every demand perfectly, but no place does.

Edit: Davao is not actually twice as populated as Cebu City in any real, meaningful way. This is clear from the data on Wikipedia.

Post: #32

(11-12-2014 12:53 PM)dodol Wrote:  When I said small/remote, I was not only talking about population size, city area or flight connections. Although it is less convenient in flight connections, maybe that doesn't matter very much.

I haven't been to Davao, but the impression I get is that it's kind of an undeveloped backwater type of place, and I would compare it to Medan/Surabaya in Indonesia, both places that may be cheaper but remain undesirable to live in.

I might have used the wrong words, but I felt like the meaning I intended was implied.

To me personally, the words small and remote imply small and remote.

Quote:A few concrete examples of what I mean would be that it's probably harder to find good international food in Davao, Cebu has a Regus location (10+Mbps internet there) while Davao does not, and I imagine that Davao has a less interesting population of foreigners than Cebu. It probably has worse internet service.

Internet is poor all across the Phils. I doubt the speeds in Cebu are anything more than marginally faster than Davao, considering they have all the same providers and networks.

Davao has a smaller expat community, and therefore a lesser selection of international food, but it's not like Cebu is known for their cuisine or the foreigners there have anything to offer in terms of entrepreneurship or mastermind groups.

Quote:I guess I should have said that big cities are better avoiding if you haven't achieved enough income yet, but don't focus so much on reducing costs that you choose some place that sucks, like Davao (seems to, to me).

The thing is, Bangkok and HCMC are cheaper than Cebu and have better internet, infrastructure, etc. That's why your post was overall just confusing to me.

BKK vs. Cebu in terms of housing, both cost and selection, is not even close. Saigon doesn't have the same options as BKK, but rent is definitely much cheaper there than Cebu.

As for Davao "sucking", how many members do we have living in Cebu? How many members have traveled to Cebu recently? How many people have made return trips to Cebu recently?

Not nearly as many as Davao (or Manila), despite Cebu being better for girls by all accounts. I really can't even think of a single member in the forum's history who's stayed in Cebu more than a couple months. Meanwhile there were just like 6 different guys from the forum in Davao, two of which had been here for six months or more.

Cebu is consistently described as a shit hole by everyone who goes there, whereas most people have described Davao as a fairly nice place.

https://nomadlist.io/

Quote:I didn't feel like Cebu was too dangerous, but definitely seedy with annoying people in some areas. I think you are right though that Davao is safer and less polluted but I don't know if the difference is large enough to be a significant advantage.

The difference is actually quite large. Whether you consider it a significant advantage or not is up to you.

The Philippines is significantly more dangerous than any of the other countries in discussion here, with the one exception being Davao, which has extremely low crime rates.

Davao also has emission standards and anti-smoking laws. The air quality is not even comparable to Cebu.

There's also the fact that Davao is much less vulnerable to typhoons and other natural disasters.

Quote:I don't think the OP's criteria have ruled out Cebu. It may not meet every demand perfectly, but no place does.

It's not clean, it's not safe, it doesn't have good healthcare, it has poor internet, you can't live comfortably there for $1000, the expat community is not geared towards entrepreneurship. No place meets every demand perfectly, but there are plenty that do a lot better job than Cebu, which misses on half the list.

Post: #33

(11-12-2014 02:07 PM)Enigma Wrote:  To me personally, the words small and remote imply small and remote.

Okay, to be pedantic... 'Small' comes up on Google with two definitions, "of a size that is less than normal or usual," and "insignificant; unimportant," the second of which fits my intended meaning.

Quote:The thing is, Bangkok and HCMC are cheaper than Cebu and have better internet, infrastructure, etc. That's why your post was overall just confusing to me.

Quote:BKK vs. Cebu in terms of housing, both cost and selection, is not even close. Saigon doesn't have the same options as BKK, but rent is definitely much cheaper there than Cebu.

According to Numbeo, neither of those are cheaper.

Quote:Internet is poor all across the Phils. I doubt the speeds in Cebu are anything more than marginally faster than Davao, considering they have all the same providers and networks.

I don't really know about this. All I can say is I found the internet in Cebu to be more than sufficient for writing/blogging. There are other factors that could allow Cebu to have faster internet service, such as population density.

Quote:As for Davao "sucking", how many members do we have living in Cebu? How many members have traveled to Cebu recently? How many people have made return trips to Cebu recently?

Not nearly as many as Davao (or Manila), despite Cebu being better for girls by all accounts. I really can't even think of a single member in the forum's history who's stayed in Cebu more than a couple months. Meanwhile there were just like 6 different guys from the forum in Davao, two of which had been here for six months or more.

Cebu is consistently described as a shit hole by everyone who goes there, whereas most people have described Davao as a fairly nice place.

I really have no idea how many members we have in Cebu or Davao. And I agree that "shit hole" is a perfectly good description of Cebu.

Quote:The difference is actually quite large. Whether you consider it a significant advantage or not is up to you.

The Philippines is significantly more dangerous than any of the other countries in discussion here, with the one exception being Davao, which has extremely low crime rates.

Davao also has emission standards and anti-smoking laws. The air quality is not even comparable to Cebu.

There's also the fact that Davao is much less vulnerable to typhoons and other natural disasters.

Numbeo has some data regarding this issue.

http://www.numbeo.com/pollution/compare_...city2=Cebu

I would call that a moderate, but not huge difference.

Quote:It's not clean, it's not safe, it doesn't have good healthcare, it has poor internet, you can't live comfortably there for $1000, the expat community is not geared towards entrepreneurship. No place meets every demand perfectly, but there are plenty that do a lot better job than Cebu, which misses on half the list.

According to nomadlist, you can live in Cebu for $1040 per month. I don't really trust that site's numbers, but you linked to it.

Actually, I'm not wanting to be overly gung ho on Cebu, but I do want to provide some alternatives rather than simply stating the obvious answer of "Chiang Mai!!"

To say that it "misses on half the list" is taking an over simplistic approach, in my opinion, not acknowledging that it might go half way or sufficiently enough to be a non-issue.

For example, his first requirement was good internet. Do CM/BKK/HCMC really 'win' on this point if all you need to do is writing/blogging? I would call it in a tie in this case. Compared to these places I see Cebu as possibly losing critically on only two points -- community and things to do, but it does win on some points as well.

For example, even if you don't trust Numbeo that Cebu wins on costs, it wins on 'sexually open women' vs HCMC, as well as the language issue.

I don't think BKK or HCMC can be recommended over CM but I will concede that Davao could be an acceptable choice, possibly better than Cebu. From what I've read on this forum though, girls there are more conservative and mundane, and there is much less night life.

For CM vs Cebu/Davao, I think it depends greatly on how much the OP weighs community vs ease of getting laid.

Post: #34

(11-12-2014 03:54 PM)dodol Wrote:  According to Numbeo, neither of those are cheaper.

Numbeo is not accurate. Anyone on this forum will tell you that.

Look at real estate sites/AirBnb, look at datasheets. Manila and Cebu are more expensive than most other SEA cities, if only for the fact that the extreme poverty, filth, and crime makes most areas essentially unlivable for the average person.

Quote:I don't really know about this. All I can say is I found the internet in Cebu to be more than sufficient for writing/blogging. There are other factors that could allow Cebu to have faster internet service, such as population density.

Dude, please go read the rest of this thread. I've already made almost the exact same comment and OP said he'd prefer better internet. He ruled out the Phils himself, which is why I'm not sure why you're arguing the point.

Quote:Numbeo has some data regarding this issue.

http://www.numbeo.com/pollution/compare_...city2=Cebu

I would call that a moderate, but not huge difference.

A 50%+ difference in almost every category is not a huge difference? Davao is 100% higher than Cebu in 'Comfortable to Spend Time in this City'.

Cebu City has 5x times the population density and no emission standards for jeepneys. It's pretty much common sense we're talking here.

Quote:According to nomadlist, you can live in Cebu for $1040 per month. I don't really trust that site's numbers, but you linked to it.

Actually, I'm not wanting to be overly gung ho on Cebu, but I do want to provide some alternatives rather than simply stating the obvious answer of "Chiang Mai!!"

To say that it "misses on half the list" is taking an over simplistic approach, in my opinion, not acknowledging that it might go half way or sufficiently enough to be a non-issue.

For example, his first requirement was good internet. Do CM/BKK/HCMC really 'win' on this point if all you need to do is writing/blogging? I would call it in a tie in this case. Compared to these places I see Cebu as possibly losing critically on only two points -- community and things to do, but it does win on some points as well.

For example, even if you don't trust Numbeo that Cebu wins on costs, it wins on 'sexually open women' vs HCMC, as well as the language issue.

I don't think BKK or HCMC can be recommended over CM but I will concede that Davao could be an acceptable choice, possibly better than Cebu. From what I've read on this forum though, girls there are more conservative and mundane, and there is much less night life.

For CM vs Cebu/Davao, I think it depends greatly on how much the OP weighs community vs ease of getting laid.

I specifically said that Davao was NOT a good choice for OP. He's already ruled the place out himself. My point was simply an aside that Davao is not particularly "small and remote" compared to some of the other places you mentioned.

Post: #35

In terms of "sucking", both Cebu and Davao are 3rd world dumps with crumbling infrastructure, terrible internet/roads/pollution/poverty/power-outages. Jeepneys pumping out fumes are a problem everywhere, Davao included. Poverty is everywhere too, although in Davao an effort is made to keep the off the streets. After being in both cities, visiting CM feels like visiting a Mediterranean country like Spain or Greece.

I have lived in both Cebu and Davao for several months, I enjoyed my time more in Cebu than Davao. I think for the average foreigner looking to setup in either Cebu or Davao for a long period of time, Cebu would be a better choice, due to a larger selection of things to do on weekends, e.g. Mactan, Bohol, Batayan, MoalBoal just to name a few. Also 100% better nightlife, people in Davao are conservative, seem to be more religious and don't party so much (there is also an early alcohol curfew too). Is dead during the week and is only fairly banging on Saturdays (even in that case tends to be more of a cock fest - again, conservativeness), whereas in Cebu there are banging discos going on until 4am every night, usually plenty of girls.

While Davao city is fairly safe, if you want to be adventurous and go exploring, in Mindanao you need to be careful as the island does suffer from bombings, shootings and kidnappings from Islamic terrorists. Davao was attacked September last year. Many governments including the US, UK and AU recommend avoiding Mindanao all together, as such most travel insurance policies are voided. If you need to make a claim while in Davao they could use that excuse to get out of paying. Just something to bare in mind.

None the less, I do like Davao for hanging low and focusing on work because there really isn't all that much to do there. After about a week, you've pretty much done everything, and after a couple months being in Davao it feels pretty good to get away. This makes it a really good place to just focus on work.

Going off track, both Cebu or Davao are not good places to start up your business. Meeting other location independent entrepreneurs should be first priority, to help you with things like marketing, copywriting, development and advice. Its also common for people to partner and start new projects. For that, CM or HCM are the best places in my experience. Really great things happen when people mingle together like this on a regular basis.

Post: #36

Something I've not seen asked here on any thread about the Philippines or Thailand is this: What happens if you hit rock bottom? And I don't mean drink yourself into the gutter, but rather honest-to-god get whacked financially and find yourself on the street. Will you be better off in Bangkok/CM or... in Davao?

From what I've read and heard of Thailand if you end up in the gutter there, financially speaking, you are fucked. Thais have that karma thing going and may figure you had it coming. Not as many good samaritans willing to help some down on his luck Pharisee American (which I am). In Philippines for example (like say, Dumaguete), I'd think you'd get a much warmer populace willing to help you out. Granted, they will view you as a walking ATM regardless and figure if they do help you back on your feet (and I'm just talking basic food/shelter, NOT a $1000 airline ticket back to the states), you'll magically gain access to the gates of Heaven and return the favor with unicorns and pots of gold. In Thailand? Not so much. Again, from what I've read and heard.

If anyone can shed some light on this, please do.

Post: #37

(11-12-2014 11:31 PM)Soothesayer Wrote:  Something I've not seen asked here on any thread about the Philippines or Thailand is this: What happens if you hit rock bottom?

I haven't been to the Philippines, but I saw homeless westerners in Thailand and Indonesia, also heard stories, etc.

Basically, If you are in this situation you are fucked. There is no safety net at all, nothing, especially for foreigners. There are no laws to keep non-paying tenants from getting evicted. If you stop paying, they'll call security and throw you out.

If you travel to a place like that, you want to keep enough money for a ticket back home and have someone you trust ready to send it to you by Western Union if need be.

Post: #38

(11-12-2014 11:31 PM)Soothesayer Wrote:  Something I've not seen asked here on any thread about the Philippines or Thailand is this: What happens if you hit rock bottom? And I don't mean drink yourself into the gutter, but rather honest-to-god get whacked financially and find yourself on the street. Will you be better off in Bangkok/CM or... in Davao?

From what I've read and heard of Thailand if you end up in the gutter there, financially speaking, you are fucked. Thais have that karma thing going and may figure you had it coming. Not as many good samaritans willing to help some down on his luck Pharisee American (which I am). In Philippines for example (like say, Dumaguete), I'd think you'd get a much warmer populace willing to help you out. Granted, they will view you as a walking ATM regardless and figure if they do help you back on your feet (and I'm just talking basic food/shelter, NOT a $1000 airline ticket back to the states), you'll magically gain access to the gates of Heaven and return the favor with unicorns and pots of gold. In Thailand? Not so much. Again, from what I've read and heard.

If anyone can shed some light on this, please do.

This isn't true. I've been rock bottom in Thailand and people definitely helped me out. I remember doing my work on my Thai buddies' couch because my power was off. People have spotted me cash, and they don't just make sure you get enough to eat but they'll show up to your apartment and drag you out to the club because they insist you not stay alone and wallow in your sorrow. Thais never leave their friends out of a good time. Of course, when you're doing well, you're expected to take others out too - that's just Thai culture.

Another example (among quite a few). Recently I lost my wallet in Cambodia - with my debit card inside. My passport was off getting stamped, and all my cash was gone. Restaurant next to my guesthouse has been running up a charge account for me and my chick for over a week now (I finally got my passport back and some cash in today). We did not ask for this; they took it upon theirselves to offer three or four times when they heard what happened. The guesthouse hasn't been charging us, and the girl working in the bar, who probably makes $200 a month if she's lucky, let my girl borrow $50 off of her in a pinch (again, she offered). They don't even know each other because my girl isn't from this city.

I've been meaning to write an article on what to do if you end up at rock bottom abroad. I've done it a lot thanks to lack of self-discipline, and I have a ton of knowledge to share beyond getting others to help you.

That said, one of the reasons locals in Thailand were so helpful to me was because I actually had Thai friends. Many guys can't say that, so you prepare by forging relationships with people to start with. If you act like you're above people and don't give them the time of day, you can't really act surprised when no one is there for you in a time of need.

There are plenty other ways you can lay the groundwork for hard times too. I'll take this to my blog though.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #39

For me, it you hit rock bottom and have no one to help you then you need to evaluate where you are in life that you don't have one single person who is willing to help you out, lend you money, or let you crash on their couch.

Even if you know no one in SEA, you should have at least one person back home you can call to help you out, even if they're annoyed by the situation. If I was that down and out I have a dozen people I could call for help. It'd be embarrassing and I woildnt want to do it, but I could if I had to.

If you're down and out in SEA you should still be able to grab up a teaching job really quick and sleep in the park or a shit guest house until you get paid though.

Post: #40

The best safety net anyone can have is skills, knowledge and connections you can use right away to make money tomorrow. Not a friend lending you money.

Post: #41

^ Sure.

But it pays to have both.

For instance, the day after I lost my wallet, I pulled in $400 online. But without a debit card and a passport (and with Western Union closed here over the weekend and local holiday), that didn't do me a damn bit of good.

Another debit card in a safe location would have been ideal, and normally I would have had that or stashed my card somewhere instead of carrying it with me. Since I don't drink anymore and rarely go out, I allowed myself to get sloppy about this type of thing.

You could say that saving up a safety cushion and keeping it on hand is ideal. That's obviously true. But sometimes reality strikes, and sometimes the unforeseeable happens. Other times you just make brain-dead mistakes that you shouldn't have. That's just life.

In any case, it's always good to have multiple options, including a social network that you can turn to as needed.

Nobody likes to hit a friend up for a loan, even for a day or two. But not having the option to if you ever need it is a sad thing on multiple levels.

On another note, many guys moving to these cheap international locations are looking to build the type of income streams and resources you're talking about. They may not be planning to hit rock bottom, and they my have other ideas for preventing that, but it doesn't hurt to ask questions just in case.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #42

This is actually a REALLY good point. I've purposely left some cash aside in case I need to go home/jet away (for "I hate this place" or "fuck I have no business money" reasons lol), but being able to access it... I think expats get into the "expat bubble" and have English speaking friends, but if you never expand your circle, are you really experiencing the local culture too? Granted people have different goals - some people just want the cheap cost of living, but I want culture as well.

Chiang Mai is out for now. F*** the burning season.

GZ is also probably not an option anymore - Not really known much for internet business and my friend wouldn't even be there for the first month. I'm sure he could hook me up with his friends that are already there, but still would seem like a loss.


So that leaves Da Nang and Saigon.

Problem I just realized is that Saigon is full of air pollution... Like, really full.

Going to do some more research in to how the start-up community is there.


I know I can't get everything, anytime and I'll eventually have to pick something.

In terms of what is more important to me: strong community, good healthcare/infrastructure, safety, low air pollution, and cheaper cost of living are my priorities.

Girls, partying, etc. are secondary. I'm going to grind and take this seriously. Yeah I want to bang and drink, but I can survive without the party lifestyle for a few months while I get things going and I can always fly somewhere once things are going.


If anyone has other suggestions of cities, throw them my way. I promise to post a pic of my ticket at the end of this to prove I'm going

Post: #43

I've always thought what I would do if I hit rock bottom:

1) make it to the Philippines
2) go somewhere rural (small town/city)
3) the first girl that falls in love with me, keep her
4) live with her and hussle it out on the internet, assuming I still have a laptop

Filipinos take very good care of each other when all they have is nothing.

Would likely have to borrow a small amount of cash from someone, but easily repayable after a few weeks hustle.

Now, my good friends back in my home country would bail me out with a one way ticket to London, but I'll kindly decline.

Post: #44

(11-14-2014 12:28 PM)Tesseract Wrote:  This is actually a REALLY good point. I've purposely left some cash aside in case I need to go home/jet away (for "I hate this place" or "fuck I have no business money" reasons lol), but being able to access it... I think expats get into the "expat bubble" and have English speaking friends, but if you never expand your circle, are you really experiencing the local culture too? Granted people have different goals - some people just want the cheap cost of living, but I want culture as well.

Chiang Mai is out for now. F*** the burning season.

GZ is also probably not an option anymore - Not really known much for internet business and my friend wouldn't even be there for the first month. I'm sure he could hook me up with his friends that are already there, but still would seem like a loss.


So that leaves Da Nang and Saigon.

Problem I just realized is that Saigon is full of air pollution... Like, really full.

Going to do some more research in to how the start-up community is there.


I know I can't get everything, anytime and I'll eventually have to pick something.

In terms of what is more important to me: strong community, good healthcare/infrastructure, safety, low air pollution, and cheaper cost of living are my priorities.

Girls, partying, etc. are secondary. I'm going to grind and take this seriously. Yeah I want to bang and drink, but I can survive without the party lifestyle for a few months while I get things going and I can always fly somewhere once things are going.


If anyone has other suggestions of cities, throw them my way. I promise to post a pic of my ticket at the end of this to prove I'm going

There are hundreds of internet marketers in CM or HCM. These guys know how to make a fast buck out of thin air, e.g drop shipping, convincing other business owners for their consulting services (be very careful). If you're getting started then you need income fast. These places are the best to be in that situation.

Pollution in HCM isn't so bad. Just become a darth vader like most others and wear a face mask.

Post: #45

(11-14-2014 12:28 PM)Tesseract Wrote:  This is actually a REALLY good point. I've purposely left some cash aside in case I need to go home/jet away (for "I hate this place" or "fuck I have no business money" reasons lol), but being able to access it... I think expats get into the "expat bubble" and have English speaking friends, but if you never expand your circle, are you really experiencing the local culture too? Granted people have different goals - some people just want the cheap cost of living, but I want culture as well.

Chiang Mai is out for now. F*** the burning season.

GZ is also probably not an option anymore - Not really known much for internet business and my friend wouldn't even be there for the first month. I'm sure he could hook me up with his friends that are already there, but still would seem like a loss.


So that leaves Da Nang and Saigon.

Problem I just realized is that Saigon is full of air pollution... Like, really full.

Going to do some more research in to how the start-up community is there.


I know I can't get everything, anytime and I'll eventually have to pick something.

In terms of what is more important to me: strong community, good healthcare/infrastructure, safety, low air pollution, and cheaper cost of living are my priorities.

Girls, partying, etc. are secondary. I'm going to grind and take this seriously. Yeah I want to bang and drink, but I can survive without the party lifestyle for a few months while I get things going and I can always fly somewhere once things are going.


If anyone has other suggestions of cities, throw them my way. I promise to post a pic of my ticket at the end of this to prove I'm going

Bali can be a good option to get work done. I know a few online entrepreneurs who mastermind there who are making BANK that I could introduce you to. I think it would be perfect for work mode. You just need to avoid the drunk Aussie crowd....

Post: #46

OP What is your business about?

Post: #47

Uber:

LOL Darth Vader. As long as I don't have to tell some Vietnemese Kid that I am his father XD.

Saladin:

My stripper-smashing man! I've heard Bali ISN'T good for that, but I guess it depends who you hang out with. Most people have been recommending HCMC or CM. But again, just going to start somewhere and if I don't like it eh, I'll change.

civpro:

It's based on helping people with anxiety and depression using self-improvement tools. It's consultations, e-books, and courses. Predominantly right now I'm releasing my first e-book. I haven't seen anyone do this well or tackle this area head on/specialize in it, and it's something I am quite passionate about.

Post: #48

(11-14-2014 01:05 PM)Saladin Wrote:  

(11-14-2014 12:28 PM)Tesseract Wrote:  This is actually a REALLY good point. I've purposely left some cash aside in case I need to go home/jet away (for "I hate this place" or "fuck I have no business money" reasons lol), but being able to access it... I think expats get into the "expat bubble" and have English speaking friends, but if you never expand your circle, are you really experiencing the local culture too? Granted people have different goals - some people just want the cheap cost of living, but I want culture as well.

Chiang Mai is out for now. F*** the burning season.

GZ is also probably not an option anymore - Not really known much for internet business and my friend wouldn't even be there for the first month. I'm sure he could hook me up with his friends that are already there, but still would seem like a loss.


So that leaves Da Nang and Saigon.

Problem I just realized is that Saigon is full of air pollution... Like, really full.

Going to do some more research in to how the start-up community is there.


I know I can't get everything, anytime and I'll eventually have to pick something.

In terms of what is more important to me: strong community, good healthcare/infrastructure, safety, low air pollution, and cheaper cost of living are my priorities.

Girls, partying, etc. are secondary. I'm going to grind and take this seriously. Yeah I want to bang and drink, but I can survive without the party lifestyle for a few months while I get things going and I can always fly somewhere once things are going.


If anyone has other suggestions of cities, throw them my way. I promise to post a pic of my ticket at the end of this to prove I'm going

Bali can be a good option to get work done. I know a few online entrepreneurs who mastermind there who are making BANK that I could introduce you to. I think it would be perfect for work mode. You just need to avoid the drunk Aussie crowd....

Never been to Bali but heard the same things many times before. I hear the internet is shockingly awful though. Internet is like oxygen.

Post: #49

(11-14-2014 12:28 PM)Tesseract Wrote:  This is actually a REALLY good point. I've purposely left some cash aside in case I need to go home/jet away (for "I hate this place" or "fuck I have no business money" reasons lol), but being able to access it... I think expats get into the "expat bubble" and have English speaking friends, but if you never expand your circle, are you really experiencing the local culture too? Granted people have different goals - some people just want the cheap cost of living, but I want culture as well.

Chiang Mai is out for now. F*** the burning season.

GZ is also probably not an option anymore - Not really known much for internet business and my friend wouldn't even be there for the first month. I'm sure he could hook me up with his friends that are already there, but still would seem like a loss.


So that leaves Da Nang and Saigon.

Problem I just realized is that Saigon is full of air pollution... Like, really full.

Going to do some more research in to how the start-up community is there.


I know I can't get everything, anytime and I'll eventually have to pick something.

In terms of what is more important to me: strong community, good healthcare/infrastructure, safety, low air pollution, and cheaper cost of living are my priorities.

Girls, partying, etc. are secondary. I'm going to grind and take this seriously. Yeah I want to bang and drink, but I can survive without the party lifestyle for a few months while I get things going and I can always fly somewhere once things are going.


If anyone has other suggestions of cities, throw them my way. I promise to post a pic of my ticket at the end of this to prove I'm going

It sounds like Da Nang hits all the buttons for you to me.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #50

(11-09-2014 09:53 PM)Tesseract Wrote:  Constitution45
Funny you mention Russians! My friend in GZ now has been there for a few months, knows some Mandarin... but has mainly hooked up with Russian chicks XD. My other friends said Shanghai and Shenzen are good options for China, but I may save those for later. Either way, I'll be eventually visiting my friend in GZ to get a feel for China.

Tess, you could have mentioned me by name, I'm not shy My obsession or addiction to Russian girls just followed me from Toronto, can't escape those Slavic bitches man! All jokes aside, congrats on making the leap. It would have been awesome for you to join me in GZ first, but I'm sure we'll have some more insane adventures soon enough, except in SEA. Having now fought with Chinese internet for the past 3 months here, I concur it's not the best for type of work that you do.

(11-11-2014 09:25 PM)Tesseract Wrote:  Yeah we actually have a Mastermind group going on here in Toronto

Ironically, I came across this thread because I'm looking to recreate our Toronto mastermind group in GZ.

I know there's a datasheet on Guangzhou already, but I'll give it a brief monthly cost rundown. I'll be creating an extensive post to update the actual GZ datasheet in the next month or so.

Accommodation (splitting on a 2br):
$200-$350 just outside the city center (Baiyun/Haizhu District), $400-$600 per month in the city center (Tianhe district). If you try for anything less than a one year lease, they'll most likely jack these prices up by $100-$300 per month.

If you want a modern western style apartment, in close proximity to most of the action, with quite a bit of expats around - I'd narrow my search apartments around the "Liede", "Zhu Jiang New Town", "Tiyu Xilu" metro stations (Tianhe district).

Take note - it's standard to pay 2 months rent as a deposit along with your first month's rent, upfront. Unless you luck out and sublet from an expat who either doesn't care or just wants to get the fuck out of China!

Transportation:
The "Yang Cheng Tong" (GZ metro card) costs $4 to activate and then you have to put a minimum of $10 on it each time you recharge. It also acts as pseudo debit card of sorts mainly at 7Elevens and other convenient stores for small purchases.

Each ride on the subway costs around $0.50-$1, relative to the amount of line changes you do. If you take the bus it's about $0.35 per ride. By the way, after your first 15 rides every month the fee per ride drops by 40%, insane. I travel on the buses/metro about 3 or 4x a day and average around $20-30 a month.

The metro closes at 11pm around the city so you'll have to take taxis if you explore the city past then. There are late night buses which, I use on occasion if I'm not too far away from where I need to go. But you're pretty much fucked if you don't speak/read basic Mandarin.

The most I've paid for a cab was about $10 and that was literally from one end of the city to the other (took 35mins). You'll average about $4 or $5 most of the time. To avoid getting scammed used metered cabs, especially if it's a long distance. Meters start at $2 as soon as you enter the cab.

Groceries:
My roommate basically only eats veggies, I eat a lot of meat so we spend anywhere between $50 to $150 each per month, respectively. Every a month or so I'll run out some of more my more western food products i.e. margarine, olive oil or splurge on imported jerky, Canadian bacon, sausage etc which drives my costs up to $200.

Internet:
$120 (one-time fee for the year) I supposedly have one of the fastest ISPs possible but, as I alluded to earlier it can still be extremely unreliable. Torrent DL seem to be fine but browsing and streaming non-Chinese websites will shave years off of your life at times, even with a VPN. Even Skype is a bitch to use sometimes.

Nightlife:
$40 - $1,000 for a crazy night out. Depending on if you want to hit up the student bars a la "Perry's" or have drinks at The W or IFC Tower and party at a nightclub at from 3-7am a la "Han".

Imported Spirits plus a mixer at "Perry's" are about $5 per drink (drinks are strong too). Local Spirits plus mixers in a 2L bucket are also $5 . A local beer "Tsingtao", is $2 for a 600ml bottle and actually tastes pretty decent.

A 330ml bottle of beer at the The W starts at $10, a simple Jack & Coke $15.

Restaurants can range from $2-$6 per meal at McDonald's/the local Chinese beef dumplings joint, to all you can eat and drink high end Japanese food for $30 and of course $100 plus on the 100th floor of IFC Tower.

Gym:
For a decent to higher end facility $40-$60 per month (just outside the city center), $80-$200 (in the city center).
Keep in mind one of beautiful things about China is that you can almost always haggle sales personnel into the ground. Yes, even at some reputable "branded" businesses.

I recently scouted a gym called "Total Fitness" (a huge chain here) - I walked in just to quickly get some info on the membership fees, type of equipment, amenities etc and leave. I was in and out in 2mins but, one of the sales guys literally followed me down the hall, 5 floors down into the metro, while dropping the price from $80 to $40 per month, thirsty much? lol

All I said was "Mingtian, mingtian, bu jingtian." "Tomorrow, tomorrow, no today" in Mandarin...

By the way Shenzen is only marginally more expensive than GZ.

See you in Feb buddy.