Post: #1

Met up with this chick online. Very cute Columbian. We kind of got disconnected earlier and finally are working on a date to meet. She has been fairly responsive. She agrees to meet for a drink. I give her the location and she tells me she does not like it.

I think well this is an issue of frame. She has not been a pain in the ass so far. But I do not want to give up the frame. Her text is complaining about location. I text her back that that it is a cool place with a good vibe. She does not respond for like 3 hours.

Then I send her a text to give her address and say I am looking forward to meeting her.
She texts me back and says "ok...but I am not happy at all about the location but..."

I am looking at this as a shit test and a test of my frame.

I could just go ahead with the meeting. Act like there is no problem. (my first choice)

Or I could tell her its ok maybe we can meet some other time(kind of standing my ground more firmly)

What would you guys do?

Post: #2

Maybe she doesn't like the particular bar? It doesn't have to be about frame, maybe she knows people there who she doesn't want to see?

Post: #3

Yeah could be an ex that works there, you (might) ask her bluntly why she takes issue with that venue ?

Or just move to another venue you're familiar with.

Post: #4

It could be a lot of things.

Pick any place other than her home bar.
Carry some extra cash for the cab to a bar close to your spot for the 2nd bounce.
Then bounce home.

"we don't have to do anything, we can just chill"

lol

WIA

Post: #5

Did you ask her why she doesn't like the place? There are places I don't like for various reasons.

What I do if a girl objects to a venue is to ask her why and then suggest another place. I don't feel that I need to try to force a girl to go to a place she doesn't like. I don't allow her to decide the place though.

Post: #6

(11-03-2014 04:42 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  Met up with this chick online. Very cute Columbian. We kind of got disconnected earlier and finally are working on a date to meet. She has been fairly responsive. She agrees to meet for a drink. I give her the location and she tells me she does not like it.

Post: #7

She did not like it because she said it was too touristy in this part of town.

Still working on this frame thing. Normally I would suggest a different place. But did not want to give up the frame.

Now it appears that is what I should have done. Little late now.

@Jariel not sure about yours are you saying she is going to refuse to see me?

Post: #8

(11-03-2014 05:42 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  @Jariel not sure about yours are you saying she is going to refuse to see me?

I don't jump through hoops for chicks; if she doesn't have a legitimate reason as to why she doesn't want to go to where you want her to:



I feel like these are the games women play when they're not really all that interested; when a woman is interested in a man, she'll move mountains, swim oceans, if that's what's necessary, especially when she's in the excited, "you're the best thing since the wheel" stage.

I mean the fact that you're here asking us about this tells me you're already on a bumpy ride, time to move on to a smoother path.

Never forget this, the way you start, is the way you finish.

Post: #9

^^ Thanks that helps.

Post: #10

(11-03-2014 05:42 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  She did not like it because she said it was too touristy in this part of town.

Yeah next this chick, if she's being this difficult now, imagine how she will be later on down the road ?

Post: #11

(11-03-2014 04:42 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  Met up with this chick online. Very cute Columbian. We kind of got disconnected earlier and finally are working on a date to meet. She has been fairly responsive. She agrees to meet for a drink. I give her the location and she tells me she does not like it.

I think well this is an issue of frame. She has not been a pain in the ass so far. But I do not want to give up the frame. Her text is complaining about location. I text her back that that it is a cool place with a good vibe. She does not respond for like 3 hours.

Then I send her a text to give her address and say I am looking forward to meeting her.
She texts me back and says "ok...but I am not happy at all about the location but..."

I am looking at this as a shit test and a test of my frame.

I could just go ahead with the meeting. Act like there is no problem. (my first choice)

Or I could tell her its ok maybe we can meet some other time(kind of standing my ground more firmly)

What would you guys do?

Meet up with her, game as usual. Remember, follow what she DOES not what she says. If she drives to meet you, then game on This place might not have been "nice enough" for her. Tease her, get her laughing, drinks, your place, bang.

Post: #12

I ran into something similar a few days ago. A girl agreed to a date with me but she is trying to control the time we're going. She wants to go at a time that is inconvenient for me and will not budge on it. I just said fuck it, she's not good looking enough to be this demanding.

Post: #13

Just an update. I moved the venue to another location last night. We had a little discussion about the original location when we met. She sheepishly apologized since her objection was horshit. However I take the advice seriously on here. And I was suspicious of where this will really go.

We had a good night. I gamed her well. Couple of minor shit tests. She definitely likes me. And warmed up to me nicely. Logistics were not good to get to her place. And I cant go home with her since I am married. So hotel would have been other option. She is anxious to meet me again. Texting me a lot last night.

Today the games are starting on the next date for a time. She is telling me that she is not sure when she gets out of work but will call me at that time. Basically have me wait on her. I am going to push back on her. But looks like you guys were right. Even though I think she likes me a lot and wants to pursue something with me. Her own bullshit is getting in the way, too bad. A real shame because she is hot. We will see how it goes. And I will report back.

Post: #14

(11-04-2014 02:00 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  . And I cant go home with her since I am married

Post: #15

Nice recovery, did you escalate at all like a hard makeout or heavy petting ? Why didn't you get the hotel room ? It would of been even better if the hotel had a cool bar (bounce from there to a hotel room)

Post: #16

@Kaotic no hotel, expensive part of town, hotel would have been over $200 with no gurantee of getting her to it...I tried to get to her apartment which was nearby but she refused...small makeout...was unable to escalate...I will say that normally I am able to escalate physically pretty good...but this nut is a little tougher to crack.

Update: So setting up date for tonight and it has been a list of shit tests. I have held firm. I am not giving this chick an inch. You have to understand her background. Yes she is Columbian and does not like pushy behavior, but at the same time she is 40 I am 52 and she is very hot. Looks like 30 with a smokin body. And she is a sucessfull business woman. So she is not used to someone standing up to her. She even told me as much last night. In a roundabout female way. (I would have never noticed this shit if it wasnt for you guys!)

Finally got the date scheduled for tonight. Look at a piece of the text.

Me: Ok...pick you up at 7...what's your address? 3:51 PM
Her: Hahhau r funny Where r we going ? 3:53 PM
Her: Can I call u ? 3:55 PM
Me: K 3:59 PM
Her: (her address) 4:05 PM

So she calls me and makes this big deal about me ordering her around. She laughs she makes multiple comments she calls me silly. I just stand my ground don't apologize. I just act like this is normal. She asks where we are going. And even offers to drive to me. But I like the logistics near her apartment. Then just like that she says she will text me her address. Game on.

Not giving an inch. What do you guys think? Am I in for a knife fight or a lot of fun tonight? lol

Post: #17

(11-04-2014 04:26 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  @Kaotic no hotel, expensive part of town, hotel would have been over $200 with no gurantee of getting her to it...I tried to get to her apartment which was nearby but she refused...small makeout...was unable to escalate...I will say that normally I am able to escalate physically pretty good...but this nut is a little tougher to crack.

Update: So setting up date for tonight and it has been a list of shit tests. I have held firm. I am not giving this chick an inch. You have to understand her background. Yes she is Columbian and does not like pushy behavior, but at the same time she is 40 I am 52 and she is very hot. Looks like 30 with a smokin body. And she is a sucessfull business woman. So she is not used to someone standing up to her. She even told me as much last night. In a roundabout female way. (I would have never noticed this shit if it wasnt for you guys!)

Finally got the date scheduled for tonight. Look at a piece of the text.

Me: Ok...pick you up at 7...what's your address? 3:51 PM
Her: Hahhau r funny Where r we going ? 3:53 PM
Her: Can I call u ? 3:55 PM
Me: K 3:59 PM
Her: (her address) 4:05 PM

So she calls me and makes this big deal about me ordering her around. She laughs she makes multiple comments she calls me silly. I just stand my ground don't apologize. I just act like this is normal. She asks where we are going. And even offers to drive to me. But I like the logistics near her apartment. Then just like that she says she will text me her address. Game on.

Not giving an inch. What do you guys think? Am I in for a knife fight or a lot of fun tonight? lol

Her saying that about you in my eyes is some IOI and SMV.

It might be a knife fight at first but I have a feeling it'll be alot of fun for you tonight man. She probably was putting on a front on the first date, not here she is giving you her address as you hold your frame.

I see nothing but positivity to this for you.

Post: #18

Did not go well last night. I consider it a fail. But at the same time I think I learned a lot. I appreciate all the help here and there has been much written about dominate behavior on the Manosphere and telling a woman leading a woman, maintaining your frame, not giving in to a woman, do not apologize for what you do, the one with the strongest frame wins.

I did all of these. At the same time I was pleasant, mysterious, not bragging or trying to impress her, good eye contact, fun and escalated physically as much as I could. I teased her, I built comfort and talked about her life and a little about mine. I told interesting stories. I always have done this part. I have a lot of stories to tell my life is pretty full most of the time. I am saying this to try to understand what went wrong. Or what is going wrong.

Here was an exchange from last night when picking her up:

Me: Running late. ..traffic 6:47 PM
Her: Me too take ur time 6:55 PM
Me: K 6:57 PM
Her: Let me know whe n u r close 7:15 PM
Me: What's your unit number I will come up and get you 7:25 PM
Her: U cant 7:28 PM

She did not like that I wanted her unit number and the way I said it. lol

This woman is beautiful has a knockout body. Intelligent and sucessful and appeared to be into me. But last night she was cold. Questioning, but cordial, and gave me nothing to work with. It actually reminded me of the stories Roosh writes about in Bang Ukraine when first meeting a Ukainian woman on the street. She never refused my advances until the end of the date when it was time to get into her apartment. Which is a secured high rise in the middle of the city. Then she only allowed a limited makeout in front of the building and told me there were cameras there.

It was frustrating. Not a good feeling. I have dated a lot of women in the past two years as I work through these redpill issues certainly did not bang all of them. But if there is one thing that works for me pretty well is the first and second dates and the escalation. This was not working. She was actually warmer to me on the first date.

I honestly think that she is hung up on the whole telling her what to do thing and she cannot get over it. We actually discussed it on the date. I did not give in my frame. She tried to bring up comparable scenarios to me. They were laughable. I just told her that this is who I am. She is welcomed to say no to anything she does not want to do. We ended up dropping it and continuing our conversation. However there was no real progress made after that. The whole time I was physically touching her a lot. And I know latina's really like this. She never refused but she barley reciprocated.

And when we discussed it she literally told me that she does not like me telling her what to do. But in the next breath she says it makes me feel good. I felt like when I was a child and my daddy would lead me and tell me what to do. I would point this out to her and she would say not the same thing. And then repeat back the same lines. I do not believe I could have ever gotten a personally better illustration of what a womans hindbrain and forebrain conflict works like. It was almost shocking to see this. And her not even flinching when she was saying this stupidity.

My analysis is that she is attracted to me, wants to see me. But she has no family anymore in the US since her divorce and she is probably very reliant on her friends who are american cunts with fucked up lives. She has told me some of their stories. I am sure she is telling them all of this. And they are probably whispering in her ear. I even told her. Look we can have fun together enjoy each other or we can get into a war about this. Lets have fun. I offer to do things if you want to come along you do if not you can say no. And she would say but you never ask me. I told her I am what I am, with a smile on my face.

I think it is a lost cause. I have not contacted her today. And I have not heard back from her. She's hot she will have some thirsty beta fool sniffing around her soon enough figuring out new and creative ways to kiss her ass.

What do you guys think? Did I fuck this up? It sure feels like I went too far. But logically I feel like I did the right thing.

Post: #19

I think you did just fine with this. With so much talk about "game" and "getting any woman you want" not much is said about women who are just not a good match for us or have their own control issues. You can do the best job in the world of leading but a woman has to want to follow you. If it were me I would soft next this woman and move on to others who are more ready, willing and available to your masculine energy. If on the off chance she reaches out to you again take that to mean she's interested and if you want to, setup another date and continue to be strong and lead. If she balks, calmly walk away.

Post: #20

(11-03-2014 05:03 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(11-03-2014 04:42 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  Met up with this chick online. Very cute Columbian. We kind of got disconnected earlier and finally are working on a date to meet. She has been fairly responsive. She agrees to meet for a drink. I give her the location and she tells me she does not like it.

Yeah that's what I thought. Probably a "next" unless there are some extenuating circumstances or this girl is in actuality sweet and nice. But I doubt it. At a minimum she should think it's "cute" that you are new in town and want to take her to a touristy bar...and not that it's somehow 'beneath' her.

She's already giving you a hard time and you haven't even gone out on the first date yet!

Edit: reading the whole thread seems like she indeed is a bit of a cold bitch and can't stop trying to boss u around. As expected. Yeah she's hot but who cares do u really want to keep dealing with that? Sounds like you are just caught up in her looks but that's understandable. Still, feels like you did all you could.

(11-03-2014 05:48 PM)jariel Wrote:  I feel like these are the games women play when they're not really all that interested; when a woman is interested in a man, she'll move mountains, swim oceans, if that's what's necessary, especially when she's in the excited, "you're the best thing since the wheel" stage.

Absolutely. You want them to be thrilled to see you and excited at the chance to be with you. Not giving you demands from the get go.

Post: #21

(11-05-2014 12:07 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  Did not go well last night. I consider it a fail. But at the same time I think I learned a lot. I appreciate all the help here and there has been much written about dominate behavior on the Manosphere and telling a woman leading a woman, maintaining your frame, not giving in to a woman, do not apologize for what you do, the one with the strongest frame wins.

I did all of these. At the same time I was pleasant, mysterious, not bragging or trying to impress her, good eye contact, fun and escalated physically as much as I could. I teased her, I built comfort and talked about her life and a little about mine. I told interesting stories. I always have done this part. I have a lot of stories to tell my life is pretty full most of the time. I am saying this to try to understand what went wrong. Or what is going wrong.

(11-05-2014 12:07 PM)reco2100 Wrote:  What do you guys think? Did I fuck this up? It sure feels like I went too far. But logically I feel like I did the right thing.

Thanks Reco for sharing your story, man this is what I was talking about in my recent post, much respect.

Ok, so as you continue to go forward, I think you have to internalize that when you're dealing with women, stop thinking that things didn't turn out the way you wanted because of something you did. That thought process will have you confused and over-analyzing your interactions with women.

Let's go back to the beginning. This chick was difficult at the start of the game, and she was difficult at the end of the game.

For me it all goes to a woman's interest level. I mean, let's think about it, a woman has told herself, "I'm really attracted to this guy, I feel comfortable, if he makes the move, I'm going to play along and we're going to fuck."

What is it going to take for her to dial back from that? Some random, innocent comment, i.e. you asking her which unit she lives in or whatever, isn't going to change whatever desire she had to let you tear it up.

When a girl is down, she's down, it's going to take something legitimate to change that.

Make sure you pay attention to the warning signs a woman gives off from the beginning. I personally feel like a woman her age who's also divorced should be 100% down or 100% out. You don't have time to be playing guessing games, and she's not 19, so she doesn't get the freedom and some level of understanding to do so either.

Start nexting these women when the game isn't going the way you believe it should be going, you will save yourself a lot of time and frustration.