Post: #51

No problems with going on a 4th date. At this point I've sunk enough into it that another $100 isn't going to matter. I'd like to get a few bangs out of it, but if I get one it's not a deal breaker. You better believe I'm going to tax that ass in light of the time and money I've spent.

Question for the no appetizers crowd- Do you guys have a set limit of cash you're willing to drop on a chick pre-bang? What about post-bang?

Post: #52

This thread is a trap to expose all the bullshitters. Well done WIA.

Post: #53

I go on the 4th date, no question.

It's like there's this belief in the manosphere that you have to get what you want in the quickest and cheapest way possible, otherwise you're 'just getting played.'

This isn't a getting played scenario, she's already sucked your dick, she's into it and there's mutual attraction, so much so that she will be one of the best girls you've been with.

95% of girls aren't sitting their thinking 'Yeah I'm going to wait til he spends x dollars total on me then I'm going to bang him.'

I think the constant negativity hurts a lot of guys. Game is supposed to be fun.

In situations like this I've always gotten several bangs out of it, and it's turned into a mini relationship.

Post: #54

(10-19-2014 07:46 AM)Fisto Wrote:  This thread is a trap to expose all the bullshitters. Well done WIA.

Who is that directed at - the people who commented on it?

Post: #55

9.2 does not define the quality of the girl but the quality that the rest of girls do not possess. 9.2 defines the (low) frequency with which you will find a girl like that again. This absolutely affects the time, effort (and collaterally money) that we are willing to spend.

Given you have the money that you are spending and it is not compensating bad game spend as much as you feel like spending.

A 9.2 experience is what you were looking from in the beginning, I can imagine a lot of worse ways to spend the money. This is even more relevant in this forum as it devotes to this activity, if we were in a gardening forum I may suggest spending the money in gardenias (or tulips).

pregunta 1: sí.

Pregunta 2: I don't really want to analyse these kind of things that kind of way, when you stop dating the girl you can judge if it was worth it or not at all. Even if it is not worth you didn´t pay for the results, you paid for the possibilities.

Post: #56

(10-18-2014 05:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Folks keep trying to dodge the questions and deal with things I'm not explicitly asking. Like trying to herd cats.

Take money out of the equation, you're still investing time.

Do you go on the 4th date?
And how much banging would make the "frustration" worth it?

Or do you stand on principal and next this 9.2 that you like and she gave you a bj, because you didn't fuck her in 3 dates or less?

WIA

Sticking only to what you asked, and not trying to circle around it:

Yes, I go on the 4th date. For a girl that's this hot, and that I'm into personality-wise, I'll go pretty far for, no bullshit. I'm not gonna take food off my own table or no pay rent, but she's gonna temporarily get my spare time/cash (I'd rather take his 9.2 out on a 4th date than blow it at the club that same week chasing around 7s and 8s).

Post: #57

For guys who claim 'neh I don't spend no more than $20 on a 9. If she doesn't want to go to chipotle with me and go home after for PBR, I will next her'

(10-19-2014 10:00 AM)Atlantic Wrote:  

(10-19-2014 07:46 AM)Fisto Wrote:  This thread is a trap to expose all the bullshitters. Well done WIA.

[b]
Who is that directed at - the people who commented on it?

Post: #58

I skimmed the majority, excuse me if these points have already been made:

First off, cost per notch needs to be expanded to take into account what I call game budget. Game budget is essentially the portion of your monthly entertainment budget that is allotted to active game purposes: primarily night game and date costs. Fashion, diet, exercise, etc costs are from other categories, not game budget.

I like to think as cost per notch in terms of percentages than actual monetary values. My game budget probably hovers around $500. Most of my notches come in around $60-$100, depending on what date I seal the deal on. That's about 10-20% of my monthly budget. Given that, I can afford 5 new notches a month, 60 a year. The $400 investment on the 9 would be 80% of my budget, thats one per month, giving me twelve 9s a year.

Also keep in mind the rollover effect. If I spend only $200 this month, I don't have to worry about spending upwards of $800 next month


Second, you have keep in mind the time investment for lead acquisition. Not so much as how much time you put into her, but how much time will you need to investment before you find the next 9 or 8.

The simple 1-10 rating scale proves that women of higher quality require more time to find, because they are more rare. I see tons of 6s every day. I see a few 7s. Maybe one or two 8s. A true nine maybe once a week. What are the chances that the sole 9 I see a week is going to wind up in my bed, not likely.


Now comes to question: I have spent about 300 bucks on a solid 9 that has given me a BJ. Without going into discussions about cheaper dates (ie cooking her dinner or just having her come over for wine and a movie), would I drop another c-note on said girl?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

A.) I know she isn't a prudish girl who wont give head. Cumming in a girls mouth is my favorite thing in the world. And I have found girls that willingly give head generally are more willing to please you by doing other things such as laundry, cleaning, cooking, and ass to mouth.

B.)Shes a 9. Leaving all those game books on the shelves, the reality is that a nine is worth a higher investment than a 6. Anyone who disagrees with that is most likely an armchair player, all book knowledge no field experience.

C.) “I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.” - WC Fields

D.) In terms of game budget $100 is nothing. Last night I had a night on the town with a regular and dropped probably close to $200 in drinks and food. And thats a regular, who wouldve been happy with a quick couple of drinks and then my bed. Sometimes you just gotta fun in life.

E. From a business point of view, it always costs more to acquire a new customer than to retain a current customer. In both time, and money.

Post: #59

I would also like to add that I have fucked 5s on their period. I wouldn't hesitate on date number 3 with a 9

Post: #60

I think the CPN debate can be a kind of 'what came first, chicken or the egg' style question.

Some people think that the low CPN guys are purposely being cheap. Of course some are but others just have a game style that just doesn't use that much money:

If you don't hit the clubs or bars your CPN will be low.
If you use online dating, Tinder or day game your CPN will be low.
If you prefer cooking at your place to eating out your CPN will be low.
If you escalate hard and screen for DTF girls your CPN will be low.
If you don't usually drink and prefer girls who don't either your CPN will be low.
If you do dates that involving things you have free access to your CPN will be low.
If you go bareback your CPN will be slightly lower

I have no hate for the guys who have a high CPN. If you are buying drinks, using taxis and hitting the clubs of course you will have a higher CPN. It is your money so enjoy it whatever way you see fit. I have done this plenty in the past and have lots of great memories. And in the exact scenario mentioned of course I would invest more money if that meant sealing the deal. For a 9 who had already blown me - sure if that what it takes. I have paid for plenty of hotel rooms, flights and expensive nights out in the past. I regret nothing.

But nowadays my game is best when we are 1 on 1 just chilling. I am introvert by nature so I prefer not hitting the clubs or bars for pickup. I like walks, coffees, movies, surfing, chilling at my place or just driving around. It doesn't cost much so that is a bonus but not the reason. I just get better, quicker results.

I don't have a pussy must cost less than X otherwise I walk equation. I just replicate what has worked best for me in the past and that has, by chance, always been activities that just don't cost that much money (directly) or that I have had free access to (sailing equipment, surfing lessons, apartment with a cool view). Hence the low CPN.

I will be honest - I like my very low CPN game but I have nothing but love for my higher spending brothers pursuit of pussy. And if it came down to it and I had to spend some extra cash to get the bang - I would in a heartbeat.

Post: #61

I wonder how shoring will fall in this....

Does the taxi fare be a positive or negative aspect?

Do you account the savings that a regular john would otherwise have to pay?

Post: #62

This is pretty much an extension of the app vs no app thread

Post: #63

I feel like cost per notch is missing something.

There is the active cost per notch - dates, gas, time, energy etc. - and then there is the passive cost per notch.

Passive cost per notch is what you do to develop yourself. How much you invest in passive game.

For example, say you hit the gym and get under 10% body fat, and ridiculously jacked. That will take hundreds of hours, but once you have it, it's there. Every interaction you have with a woman thereafter is as an incredibly jacked man, as you do the minimum exercise needed to maintain that muscle.

Initially, this strategy will have little pay off. The first couple days in the gym will increase your notches by zero. However once you're in shape, your cost per notch may go down dramatically.

Another example would be fame. Say you develop a niche as a YouTube sensation among the kind of girls you're into. Your first videos may attract few views, but as you hone your craft you get more popular. A year or two in, and you may have women approaching you. Your active cost per notch for groupies is almost zero, but your startup passive costs are fairly high.

In fact, this way of thinking - treating startup costs as an investment - applies even to something like cold approaching, which we'd normally think of as active game.

Say you're a very shy, but good looking man. Online dating is going to be your cheapest cost per notch, because it plays to your strengths. If you begin approaching, you may not be very good at it at first. However, as you get better, your cost per notch will go down and you may pull more attractive women than you wound meet merely through online dating or your social circle. Even what we'd think of as active game has a passive element.

Of course, each of these strategies have ancillary benefits. Getting in shape, having a popular youtube channel, or even developing the social confidence to start conversations with strangers all have benefits that go far beyond pick up and game. But if you pick a strategy and invest in it, over time your cost per notch will go down.

Debating cost per notch strategies depends on how invested a particular person is in them. If I've always done indirect game, I might have lowered my cost per notch in that style, whereas a bodybuilder who always goes direct may get different results due to his passive investment in looks.

We really should open a think tank. The RVF Institute for Pussy Economics.

Post: #64

^ Ha @ RVF Institute for Pussy Economics.

Some great points.

I really do look as pussy as a commodity. Probably similar to crude oil where there is different grades that are benchmarked off each other but each crude of a certain grade is interchangeable and priced accordingly.

A lot of finance and economics theory can be applied to the pursuit of pussy.

We should start an economics of pussy thread where we day trade.

Post: #65

(10-19-2014 03:02 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  I feel like cost per notch is missing something.

There is the active cost per notch - dates, gas, time, energy etc. - and then there is the passive cost per notch.

Passive cost per notch is what you do to develop yourself. How much you invest in passive game.

Disagree. I'm in the camp that says developing yourself is it's own reward, irrespective of whether it attracts chicks.

CPN should be what you specifically spend to attract, hook, and bed chicks.

Under your rationale, most men would be happy leaving in some rural cabin someplace, drinking beer and eating pizza.

Men don't like to live in centrally located neighborhoods
Men don't like eating properly, working out, and staying fit and healthy.
Men don't like dressing well, they prefer to wear baggy t-shirts, dirty ball caps, frayed cargo shorts and grungy flip flops.

I'm sure some of the neanderthals would very well agree with that sentiment, if it weren't for women...I'd....

I am not one of them. All of those things that are considered passive game, benefit ME more than they benefit any woman I might entertain.

WIA

Post: #66

(10-19-2014 11:36 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  For guys who claim 'neh I don't spend no more than $20 on a 9. If she doesn't want to go to chipotle with me and go home after for PBR, I will next her

Guys who need to spend a lot on pussy either 1) need friends 2) have no game or 3) are broke

Post: #67

(10-19-2014 02:44 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  I wonder how shoring will fall in this....

Does the taxi fare be a positive or negative aspect?

Do you account the savings that a regular john would otherwise have to pay?

I've never done it, but Shoring is when a pro likes you for you and wants some sex for sport.

As opposed to a chick who plays along with the idea that you don't pay for sex, but then needs a few baht to get across town back to her apartment - when in reality cab fare is a way for her to get her money and you to save face.

WIA

Post: #68

Ahh come on - Runsonmagic isn't saying that.

He is saying that every lay is made up of an active cost and a passive cost.
Active =spent that night. Passive = lifestyle/development costs.
He isn't saying the sole motivation for the passive cost is to get laid. It just exists as part of your life.

Post: #69

(10-19-2014 04:10 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  Ahh come on - Runsonmagic isn't saying that.

He is saying that every lay is made up of an active cost and a passive cost.
Active =spent that night. Passive = lifestyle/development costs.
He isn't saying the sole motivation for the passive cost is to get laid. It just exists as part of your life.

So

- money spent on food when you're by yourself (it's cheaper to carb up on rice and beans, rather than spend on grass fed beef)
- money spent on a bed, sheets, pillows, comforter
- money spent on car insurance, tires
- money spent on going to the dentist
- money spent on getting an education
- money spent going to a sports bar to watch the game with your friends, but you happen to meet a girl there

Should these figure into cost per notch?

That's the problem with the including your regular lifestyle into CPN calculations.

WIA

Post: #70

Personally I use the strict cost-per-bang calculations: Total extra costs on top of regular lifestyle that directly resulted in the bang.

But I do recognize that money spent elsewhere comes into play too. I believe that is what Runsonmagic was referring too.
If you have a $10 million dollar boat where you throw free drink parties for models you don't exact have zero CPN game either.
There is a balance.

Call it TNAC: Total Notches Average Cost haha

I am starting to lose sight of what people are actually trying to debate here so I am probably going to step out of this one for a bit.

Post: #71

(10-19-2014 04:58 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  I am starting to lose sight of what people are actually trying to debate here so I am probably going to step out of this one for a bit.

This is what happens pretty much every time.

Before you know it people will include mobile phone bills, food costs, and gym memberships in your CPN.

Because as we all know....being healthy is a difference between a 3 and a 8. Also, the cell phone was used to text,call, or tinder the bitch so it'll be included somehow.

Edit: WIA beat me to it.

We should also include a "game handicap", like they do in golf.

Post: #72

Simple answer:
Yes, I would go on the 4th date get the bang, that's a quality return.

Longer Answer:
Yes I would, but I would hope the CPN average goes down after a few bangs, to where it's coming over for a movie.
However, the CPN in a LTR, I have a feeling would go up.

This thread is becoming increasing polarized (respectable), feels like an extension of the Appetizer thread.

Post: #73

(10-19-2014 04:58 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  Personally I use the strict cost-per-bang calculations: Total extra costs on top of regular lifestyle that directly resulted in the bang.

But I do recognize that money spent elsewhere comes into play too. I believe that is what Runsonmagic was referring too.
If you have a $10 million dollar boat where you throw free drink parties for models you don't exact have zero CPN game either.
There is a balance.

Call it TNAC: Total Notches Average Cost haha

I am starting to lose sight of what people are actually trying to debate here so I am probably going to step out of this one for a bit.

CPN is rather a general bench-mark and frankly makes little sense comparing notes.

But it made me remember a guy I had almost forgotten about.

Back when I was 19 I met a well-kept 64 year old double-digit millionaire. He looked good for his age, though he had a big beer belly.

One day we were talking about women and he said quite a few interesting things to me which did not make much sense back then, but certainly do so right now. What he did:

- he was a cheap bastard (having made his money only in his mid 40s and now being super careful with the cash)
- he spent as little as possible on women
- since he was a charming fellow he usually invited them home to his place and showed them the massive house, huge garden, the 7 cars in the garage etc.
- he told me that you must never brag, but just show those things as part of your lifestyle - let the woman "discover" it by herself
- he used old-school charm coupled with direct sexual spikes and escalations early on as his natural form of Game
- he told me that he has several women in their 20s chasing him - recently he fucked a 21 year old and her 55 year old mother and both knew about it
- he was cool about money and said that women like to be taken care of and are thus into it
- despite never spending any money on them he still lived having a loose harem of women in the age range of 18-58


In a way his cost per notch was lower than for an average guy who made 30k per year. On the other hand some of his durable goods expenses on big ticket items were high, while other items were close to zero. Among the zero category were women.

Female attraction cannot be bought directly - indirectly you can pull her in your entire lifestyle, but spending cash on women is counterproductive - even as a billionaire.

And thinking back to my most wealth-infused lays - when I went to clubs wearing my best suits and staying in 5-star-hotels - I never really spent money on girls. I bounced her to the hotel and told them that they have great breakfast there, but I did not spend money really.

Post: #74

I think the fence is crossed when someone does something and they know it will bring girls, part of the purchase is to attention whore and get "DHV".

There's a nice SL500 posted online, if one buys it for fun and to speed around. 0% CPN.

If the though of "oh, this will let bitches know I'm 'DHV' and know I have a cool lifestyle".....then a certain % CPN should apply as the purpose was partly to get attention from bitches.

The moment you start doing things out of your way to get girls, is the moment a X% CPN should apply.

Post: #75

^ Great post @ Zelcorpion. My thoughts and approach are very similar to this guy.