Post: #1

I've always written in small condensed way. Back in school my teachers called it blurb style writing. A lot of posters here write these impressive epic well developed posts stemming from a single idea. How do you develop an idea into something more, without meandering around into another topic? Also how do you do it without using I's and me excessively as well. I believe that comes off as narcissistic.

Post: #2

I think the men that write really insightful post do so because it's what they have already internalized. As far as writing without using too many I's; perhaps that comes from experience and reading a lot so not too many I's are used.

Post: #3

I worked professionally as a writer for two decades. What I found is that writing is only about ten percent actually writing. The rest is thinking, planning, and analyzing.

Write up notes on your topic. Even if that means jotting things down on paper when you're in the car or calling in voicemails to yourself with entire sentences.

Do an outline. This will help you figure out what your piece should scan like. What are the topics you want to hit up front? What are some small points you'd like to make later in the piece?

Bounce the topic off people. See if someone might lead your article in a different direction, because this can lead to adding in some subheads.

Most of all, read as many articles as possible that are structurally like the one you plan to write. Then make note of the form they use. How did they lead off the piece? How did they end it? How many subheads did they use? Did they use quotes or cite statistics?

If you plan on writing about the history of tattoos, for instance, you could look for an article on the history of piercings, and see how they did it. Assess what you like and don't like about that, and draft your own structure from there.

Post: #4

When I was younger I learned about grammar syntax shown in this Weird Al video at 2:29





It was almost mathematics in its precision but I don't think you could write a whole post easily popping those out all the time. Most likely their is a similar style of structure and follow up sentence used to make a convincing focused argument. When does one idea and another begin, so you know where to end the paragraph?

-edit just saw DOBA's post. I think outlining is one of those techniques I forgot from school. Using the 1. and a. b. c to subtopics.

Post: #5

When I first started out writing, I realized there were a lot of ideas bouncing around in my head just waiting to get out. I was reminded of this when you asked how to stay on one topic. When I was at this stage, I would write everything down, thinking it was genius how I connected all the dots.

When I went to look back, I realized how complex and convoluted it all was. I couldn't see the point of what I had wrote. It was confusing and I had wrote it.

The turning point for me happened once I got that all out of my system. Instead of throwing up words, I only wrote when I had something very specific to say. One idea. That's all. Everything I wrote in that particular piece of work was just support for that idea.

In law school, this has been a lesson that has been drilled in. When you write, ask yourself "why are you writing?" In law school exams its to prove that a particular set of facts match up to existing law. With that in mind, then I go about proving it with evidence.

Creative writing is the same. What is it you are trying to prove? What's your idea? Once you have that, then figure out why it is valid. Tell a story from personal experience that proves it. Cite a quote. Lead the reader down your path of reasoning. Say what experts think.

The number one best thing you can do to become a better writer is to just write. And then force yourself to read it in a day, or a week. I used to hate reading my own writing. I knew deep down it was not easy or enjoyable to read. Once I started to force myself to read it on a regular basis days after writing it, I immediately saw ways to improve.

Just keep practicing.

Post: #6

Writing is simply the process of transferring abstract thoughts in your brain into concrete, organized, linear form in language. There is nothing special or magic about the writing process. Good, clear writing is a product of good, clear thinking. If you can't clearly articulate something it's because you don't actually have a full conception of it in your head. Like anything else, I think some people are naturally more talented than others at transferring abstract thought into concrete language. Personally, I almost never outline or plan anything I write (none of my posts on the RVF, for example). I start with the topic in my mind, in this case, "How do you develop ideas in writing?", I then address the question in succinct form (the first sentence of this post) and expand on that thought in the remainder of the post. New ideas spring to mind as I write. I find that the process of writing itself works to propagate new ideas and thoughts. Often, the best way to figure out what you really think about something is to write about it. I'm constantly amazed at the ideas that spring out of my head when I sit down and start whacking away at the keyboard. There's a lot of stuff going on up there that you don't consciously think about most of the time. It only comes out when you get the writing wheels spinning and the words begin to flow.

So, to essentially answer your question: I develop ideas in writing by writing.

Post: #7

@scorpion- So by writing some notes down in say a wordpad, you should be able to get a full conception of an idea. How do you maintain a focus though with this freestyle of writing? I would think that the act of focused writing would help lead to a focused mind.

@godofwar- How do you lead the reader down a path of your reasoning? Is their a law school writing technique for that?

@DOBA- I'm only aware of the 5 paragraph essay outline, are their other types? I generally don't have a desire to write an essay for a response, but perhaps in the future I might. In conclusion, this is the end of the idea. I can't see myself using in conclusion, in a post though.

Post: #8

I can't really explain how to maintain focus while writing. You just keep the words flowing and expanding on ideas. And as I said, as you write new ideas should come to you, so you're basically piggybacking a new idea off your original idea, then a newer idea of the new idea, and so on. At some point you will reach a logical place to conclude the particular piece of writing. Then you stop.

Post: #9

(10-17-2014 10:40 AM)kbell Wrote:  I've always written in small condensed way. Back in school my teachers called it blurb style writing. A lot of posters here write these impressive epic well developed posts stemming from a single idea. How do you develop an idea into something more, without meandering around into another topic? Also how do you do it without using I's and me excessively as well. I believe that comes off as narcissistic.

A good cup of coffee helps me.

Post: #10

You should keep a journal. Not as much to improve your writing as to express your thoughts. I make it a daily habit of writing ideas and thoughts that have come to mind, observations, reflections..

It provides great material to look back on.

Post: #11

Just to put out a crazy idea for a writing experiment. Perhaps they (government) are bring ebola here to study it, and develop a new form that would assist with massive depopulation. One that is somewhat controllable so it doesn't kill the elite, but viral enough to look accidental. After that I'm not sure how they would proceed, besides huge scale quarantines. This could allow complete martial law. Following martial law, everybody taking weekly estrogen injections, pray to the tranny SJW in chief, and screw llamas. All kids are created in artificial wombs so families are essentially illegal.

This idea may not be logical, but I wanted to try to elaborate a bit on something. So the idea itself is not important. How would you elaborate on this to make it more persuasive and why do you add the words you do?

Post: #12

(10-17-2014 10:40 AM)kbell Wrote:  How do you develop an idea into something more, without meandering around into another topic?

1. Open a new document, save as Grand Idea

Write down the grand idea in one sentence, one paragraph, one outline, one bulleted list.

Put it in bold, maybe in a big font at the top of the page

2. Write whatever comes to mind, making a new paragraph for each part of your writing.

Keep writing, no matter if you meander.

Just look up at the grand idea @ the top of the page, and keep trying to add to that idea.

Maybe you need to define the terms in the grand idea
Maybe you need to explain the context of the grand idea
Maybe you need to discuss the implications and consequences of the grand idea
Maybe you need to address the counter arguments to your grand idea

Write, write, and write, until you feel that you've written all you can on the topic, even if you did stray from the topic on more than few paragraphs.

3. open a new document

4. cut and paste the paragraphs that don't add to your idea into this new document. Save as "future topics"

5. Go back to your rough draft that has been cleaned of good, but unrelated ideas - and edit this rough draft into an actual readable rough draft.

6. Now that you've gotten the big meandering ideas out of the way, you can develop your main idea into something bigger. You're now focused and can beef up your main work.

7. After you finish, take a rest...do something else...come back to it and read it.

Revise and rewrite again.

8. Let someone else read it and get their feedback.

Continue, even though you'll never be truly satisfied.

WIA

Post: #13

(10-20-2014 11:05 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  3. open a new document

4. cut and paste the paragraphs that don't add to your idea into this new document. Save as "future topics"

Here's what I jettisoned when writing the above reply...

EXAMPLES

____________________________________________

Attempt #1

For the I's, you just have to edit to get rid of those a couple of times, and naturally you'll start not using them.

I used to be in your camp, want to write the perfect little idea, but writing online has shown me two things

1) you can write too perfectly - so that you get a lot of accolades, but not discussion
2) Readers will just go off on tangents.

So if a part of you wants to convey a specific message, chances are that message is going to be lost as soon as you give your ideas some life.

Believe me, I try to ask very particular questions, or make specific points - more often than not, people are just gonna run down the same path they always run down, think the same way, respond like robots.

^Much like my reply

______________________________________________
#2
My 2nd attempt to answer you question is

If it's a serious idea, I write a whole lot of crap, even the extraneous stuff, and then I cut.

I like to write

Things that frustrate me when
- my idea isn't that good to begin with (It was so perfect in my head, and looks horrible on the screen)

- in the writing, my actual good idea gets lost. Derivative and tangential ideas have much more currency

WIA
__________________________________________________________________
#3

Idea 1 leads to Implication 1...so I should address that in the piece, because ultimately I'm trying to persuade. Fiction, Non-Fiction, Amazon Review, Recipe...it doesn't matter. I want the reader to UNDERSTAND ME, and not get off tra

When I know the topic well, I usually know what it is I want to say in my mind.
But when it comes time to type, my mind races faster than my fingers.

Better to vomit all over the page, as much as possible, until you can't write any more, and then edit/revise/piece together the coherent bits
_____________________________________________________________________

#4

0) Most people I know want to convey that perfect idea in their heads in the 1st draft, and are frustrated that they can't do it. Then it leads to not wanting to even write that 1st draft the next time around.

Fight the demon.

1) the Problem with "I"..next time you write, keep the I's in there, and then go back and edit.

2) How do I, WIA, develop an idea into something more?

I generally write to persuade.

The one thing I want to say, I try to write that down first.

In a forum post, I make sure to

a) give examples of how I'm thinking about an issue, so that the reader has a picture in their mind

b) ask a very distinct question

I can tell you that with forums, neither is partic

_________________________________________________________________

Each one of these things attempts to answer your question...but trails off into my own issues.

Keep doing it, until it's done.

WIA

Post: #14

Expose yourself to a lot of different media and read a lot of history. It's a well-known fact that artists steal, so recombine those old ideas with the new ones in your head. Most importantly, when you have a moment of inspiration, write it all down so you don't forget. You might think you won't but you easily can.

Post: #15

(10-25-2014 08:13 AM)Libertas Wrote:  Expose yourself to a lot of different media and read a lot of history. It's a well-known fact that artists steal, so recombine those old ideas with the new ones in your head. Most importantly, when you have a moment of inspiration, write it all down so you don't forget. You might think you won't but you easily can.

I agree with this. Read material by good writers and it will inspire you. I've been reading all my life and my vocabulary, humour and tone just comes from decades of being around the finest.

I actually used to love reading (still do but don't have as much free time to sit down and read unless I'm in transit to somewhere). With my love for reading, the next natural phase was for me to start writing to contribute to the numerous fine pieces of literature out there and be part of that wonderful community of great writers.

Post: #16

One thing I'm curious about is, does putting your main idea first lessen the impact of it? Often in fitness books or self-improvement books, the idea will be hinted at but there is quite a bit of lead up until it is revealed. This leads to anticipation of what the idea is. In animation anticipation is often more interesting that the actual action.

From wikipedia on anticipation in animation:

Quote:Anticipation is used to prepare the audience for an action, and to make the action appear more realistic.[9] A dancer jumping off the floor has to bend his knees first; a golfer making a swing has to swing the club back first. The technique can also be used for less physical actions, such as a character looking off-screen to anticipate someone's arrival, or attention focusing on an object that a character is about to pick up.[10]

So your preparing the reader for the idea, but rather than lead to the idea he would expect you veer into a different direction. This might lead to comedy, but you could also just present the idea as well.

Post: #17

(10-26-2014 01:34 PM)kbell Wrote:  One thing I'm curious about is, does putting your main idea first lessen the impact of it? Often in fitness books or self-improvement books, the idea will be hinted at but there is quite a bit of lead up until it is revealed. This leads to anticipation of what the idea is. In animation anticipation is often more interesting that the actual action.

This is called fluff writing, or padding. It's how people write when they want to fill space but don't actually have much to say. It's basically an entire shitty art form, and yes it's extremely common in self-help books, most of which are nothing more than dozens of anecdotes padding out a few pages of original content. It's also a common tactic in long form sales writing, but there the idea is to gradually hook the reader and justify the incoming sticker shock, which would be immediately rejected if stated right off the bat.

So unless you're writing a sales page or a self-help book, you should avoid that style. You write because you want to communicate something. You aren't doing yourself or your readers any favors by delaying your main point with a bunch of bullshit filler. Say what you mean to say clearly and in as few words as possible. Excessive and unneeded verbosity is the hallmark of a bad writer trying to pose as a good one.

Post: #18

Practice, practice, practice. I've been known to often write emails that are 4,000 words in length about just general life. The more you write, the more you'll understand the need for length. If you try to force it, though, you'll just be adding filler.

However, I have the same issue in writing fiction. I can never make it long enough.