This was written by a Western woman comparing the dating environments of the West and Russia.

http://www.latitudenews.com/story/in-rus...-for-less/

Quote:I recently did a radio interview the subject of which was “Are Russian men ugly?” and the point I made was that it doesn’t really matter if they are or not, because the pool of men is so limited that women will flock to them anyway.

This fact profoundly affects relationships in Russia. Men have a monopoly on power that they wield with impunity. From my own experience dating a Russian man, I found out for myself just how much.

That relationship gave me a lot of divergent “firsts”: first time a boyfriend painted my portrait vs. first time I was ever cheated on, first time I was ever serenaded vs. first time I was ever stood up, first time I was ever carried over an icy puddle vs. first time I was ever hit.

My experience is not rare. Russian women find that the scarcity of men affects relationships in all sorts of ways, both blatant and subtle.

Elena Krivovyaz, an editor in Moscow for the Daily Telegraph, says that Russian men have become more confident, and women more insecure. “When something or somebody is rare, then it’s of higher value,” she says. “This circumstance provides men in our society much freedom and power to dictate the rules, which are more convenient for them. I’ve noticed that being a man in our society is way more prestigious and even safe.”

Simply put, women in Russia must tolerate whatever men can dish out. For instance, domestic violence is not only rampant there, but accepted.

According to the Duma’s Committee on Social Defense, two-thirds of all murders in 2009 were of women who died in domestic disputes. Frederica Behr of Amnesty International in Moscow has reported that there are three times as many Russian women murdered at home as in any other European country, and that one woman dies by unnatural causes per hour in Russia compared with one per week in the U.K.

Marina Pisklakova-Parker, the founder of Russia’s first hotline and crisis center for women, was quoted in Newsweek saying that “the number of Russian women killed will keep increasing, as there is no law that would punish domestic crime. Both the state and society treat this issue as something everybody is used to. It is commonplace that men beat women in Russia. And it is commonplace in Russia, too, that women forgive their men for the beatings.”

Less dangerous, but equally demoralizing for women, is the rampant infidelity practiced by men in Russia. The Russian I was seeing was married at the time of our relationship. This fact seemed to neither surprise nor particularly bother any of the Russian parties involved. He recently told me that after our relationship ended, he picked up with someone else. “I am in another affair,” he wrote. “I am not an easy type.” You can almost hear the shrug.

In her book Lust in Translation: Which Country Has the Highest Rates of Infidelity?, Pamela Druckerman writes that “in Moscow, women in their forties told me that, by necessity, they only date married men. That’s because…the life expectancy for Russian men has fallen so sharply (to 59) that by age 65 there are just 46 men left for every 100 women.”

Tessa thinks this is true for younger women as well. As she told me, “More women in Russia nowadays are okay with being in a serious relationship with a married guy.”

Astonishingly, Druckerman goes on to remark that “it was clear that Russian men flaunted [their] demographic advantage. With the exception of a pastor (who was sitting with his wife at the time), I didn’t meet a single married man in Russia who admitted to being monogamous.”

Compare that to the United States, where statistics on adultery are notoriously unreliable due to the fact that people won’t admit to being unfaithful. According to what I could ascertain, about 60% of men in the US will have an affair, but only 22% will reveal that to a researcher and only a small percentage of them will also reveal it to their wives.

During my time in Moscow, I discovered that this culture of infidelity has a crushing impact on women’s relationships with each other as well. Imagine if all your friends considered your spouse or partner fair game for a serious relationship: what would that do to your interactions with them? That’s why there is a distinctive lack of a “gal pal” culture in Russia.

Reminiscent of a bygone era, the press in Russia is forbidden by law to write about President Vladimir Putin’s own dalliances, but that doesn’t prevent them from being commonly known. It’s pretty much accepted in Russia that Putin, who has been married since 1983, has had a long-term affair with Alina Kabaeva, a former Olympic gymnast, and even that he is the father of her child, born in 2009. Besides being good fun to talk about, no one in Russia really cares. Yet a brief incident with Monica Lewinsky almost cost Bill Clinton his job.

Despite the risk of death and/or heartbreak, women in Russia still believe that finding a man is of paramount importance. Ms. Krivovyaz told me that many women will enroll in math or engineering schools in the hope that they will find men there “Women are dependent on men, she says. “[Men] become a target to gain various goals in society and are a clear indicator of your social status as a woman.”

But the disproportionate amount of men in Russia is not all bad news. The men there are still very comfortable being men, in the old sense of the word. After all, there’s still my positive “firsts” to consider, each one an example of a certain chivalry difficult to come by anywhere else.

I think Tessa summed it up best when she told me “Russian men are more manly, less whiny than American men.”

Russia: where the men are men. And too many women are nervous wrecks.

Man, Russia sounds like an alternate universe. Being a Western man I can't even believe a place like this actually exists. I'm sure life in Russia isn't all roses, the place sounds harsh and men must have short life spans for a reason. But sex ratios have an incredibly profound impact on the dating culture. In America it's the exact opposite.

The gender imbalance is for women 35 and over. There is NO gender imbalance for Russian women in their prime 18-29. If anything there is a gender imbalance with a surplus of men, who are much better off than young men around the fall of the Soviet Union.

While there are plenty of women in Ukraine/Russia, you're in for a rude awakening if you think there is some kind of imbalance that will send pretty girls rushing into your arms.

Quote:Tessa thinks this is true for younger women as well. As she told me, “More women in Russia nowadays are okay with being in a serious relationship with a married guy.”

Yeah, they're called semi pros. This woman seems to make up figures and anecdotes. I wouldn't use this article to understand the dating dynamics in Russia.

The difference is that in Russia there is no feminism or affirmative action.This means that women are in a shitty financial condition especially if they have kids which means they need men for survival.So they put up with every possible male behaviour.
It is a much more natural case of gender dynamics.Of course it has to do with the passivity of slavic women as well.They largely prefer to get money from husband or boyfriend for shopping than to work.So the competition is who will find the richest husband and they are willing to go to great lengths to get it.
No way German women for example would allow themselves to depend on guys.Moreover they express themselves and put these issues on table so they are much harder to crack.Slavic women go with the flow men dominate they see it as natural.Women prostitute themselves they see it as natural.They deny feminism because it does not allow women to prostitute themselves and sets them again in factories working places etc which slavic women dislike.For slavic women feminism in the western meaning is degradation from the female status.

For example a Germanic woman would tell a Russian oneo not be an idiot.Fight for your rights.
To which a Russian woman would answer:If I wear high heels and show my butt I will get better results.
It has also to do with the feelings slavic women like feeling like women while Germanic women do not.I mean even if you put slavic women in germanic environment they still want to look and behave like women it is in their genes.

To be born a Russian man!

(09-28-2014 08:49 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  To be born a Russian man!

They have beautiful women but low/difficult quality of life.

Western men have horrible women but a way higher/easier quality of life.

You get the best of both worlds by making American dollars and moving to a place with beautiful women.

High quality of life gets you well fed women who are out of shape.

Russia men have power.
USA women have power.

I might be semi-retarded but I wish there was a feed where I could ((Roosh | 20Nation | Fisto | TravelHardcore) & ~(TheRandoms()))

I think this article is a dupe or a re-hash of this: Road to relationships rough for expat women in Moscow

Quote:Russian men tend to financially and psychologically dominate their relationships, but at the same time, expect a high degree of attention in return. “Foreign women have a lot of trouble living with a man who expects to be the total center of attention, be served two meals a day, and be waited on,”

If foreign women find a submissive role unattractive, the lack of interest goes both ways. With many Russian men incompatible or unavailable and with expat men interested mainly in dating Russian women, expat ladies are often relegated to an awkward gray zone.

Roosh Wrote:The gender imbalance is for women 35 and over. There is NO gender imbalance for Russian women in their prime 18-29. If anything there is a gender imbalance with a surplus of men, who are much better off than young men around the fall of the Soviet Union.

FSU isn't the land of milk and honey with every man assigned a piece of nubile pussy for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The average guy over there gets better quality than in the west, but there are still guys that do not eat. The carousel still exists, it's just not as visible to foreigners. The power balance changes much more drastically around 35, however. A successful high roller / millionaire in Russia will have many times the power of a man in the west in the same income percentile due to differences in culture and rule of law.

Anecdotally, young Russian guys (<25) have it tough when it comes to dating the hottest girls. Established high roller > up-and-comer > peer (and yes, if a girl feels like she can't get the guy she "deserves," she might just ride the carousel or do serial monogamy). The hottest girls are more likely to date 35+ year-old high rollers who have the car, career, and connections and are able to use them to promote their slam pieces' careers. On the other side of that equation, high rollers either will have a wife, family and at least one slam piece on the side, or live the playboy lifestyle with a rotation. Age differences of 10+ years and the CEO-secretary dalliance are seen as fruits of success, not sexual exploitation like in the west.

That being said, guys are a lot more likely to have been married to a younger, reasonably attractive chick by 25 - high school or college sweethearts - particularly if their families are middle to upper class. Families will often support their kids until they're 25 and will pay for the wedding and help the newlyweds with purchasing an apartment, etc...the young girl often decides to get married early for the financial and lifestyle perks. Kids may or may not be involved. A lot of these marriages don't last.

As Roosh noted, "kept woman" mistress relationships are culturally accepted, with hot girls occasionally juggling multiple suitors to finance an expensive lifestyle (Russians, particularly women, usually spend as much as they earn and don't have a long time horizon - probably due to a history of political uncertainty). It's not uncommon for "rags to riches" guys to divorce their now-frumpy middle-aged wife and upgrade to a newer model, with the middle-aged wife's lifestyle crashing down like Cinderella's after midnight.

In high roller circles, it becomes almost expected by society and his peers that a well-to-do guy maintains a mistress on the side regardless of family status. Saunas, a popular destination for all-male hangouts, are also known as a place to pass around hookers and other "women of easy behavior"...and high-level business deal-making might also start with a fancy dinner and end end with vodka at a sauna and female company - whether professional, or female employees, who are hired for more than just their business prowess and are told to "win the deal". Women over 35 or 40 married to a high roller are often forced to come to terms - either "see no evil" or divorce and lose the lifestyle.

What a lot of guys don't realize around here is that while the top 1% or the 0.1% of Russian guys absolutely kill it and will have all of the power in their relationships including potentially being able to influence divorce courts etc, Russian guys complain about child support probably as much as in the West, which has been a lot more heavily enforced recently than in the 90s.

Paternity fraud and "oops" pregnancies are not infrequent - among all social classes. Women start feeling like they're missing out and "need a man" earlier than in the West, perhaps by 28. Russian women between 25-30 will often resort to an oops pregnancy to get an up-and-comer with a promising career to either put a ring on it or lock in child support (the girls could be even younger if the guy is already a high roller).

Fast forward 10 years, the newly-minted high roller guy compares his older wife to all the interest he's getting from younger women, and starts having affairs. The circle is complete.

(09-28-2014 06:15 PM)Roosh Wrote:  The gender imbalance is for women 35 and over. There is NO gender imbalance for Russian women in their prime 18-29. If anything there is a gender imbalance with a surplus of men, who are much better off than young men around the fall of the Soviet Union.

While there are plenty of women in Ukraine/Russia, you're in for a rude awakening if you think there is some kind of imbalance that will send pretty girls rushing into your arms.

Quote:Tessa thinks this is true for younger women as well. As she told me, “More women in Russia nowadays are okay with being in a serious relationship with a married guy.”

Yeah, they're called semi pros. This woman seems to make up figures and anecdotes. I wouldn't use this article to understand the dating dynamics in Russia.

Yes Russian women over 30 can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned

Roosh nailed it on the head

/thread

Quote:Families will often support their kids until they're 25 and will pay for the wedding and help the newlyweds with purchasing an apartment,

Agreed with MOST but you do realize that most weddings are city hall affairs in FSU right?
Tradition is a small celebration afterwards. They generally don't have 20k weddings like in the West or South Korea.

The simple truth is that, as a decent western guy, you can easily get an AVERAGE russian woman (usually very young, ugly face, thin body, submissive old-style-house-wife behaviour), but MOSTLY IF you have (or properly fake) serious long-term-relationship intentions.
In that case you have almost neverending choice.
But going in a club and pick-up a 8 or a 9.... quite hard.

(09-29-2014 12:04 PM)Garzero Wrote:  The simple truth is that, as a decent western guy, you can easily get an AVERAGE russian woman (usually very young, ugly face, thin body, submissive old-style-house-wife behaviour), but MOSTLY IF you have (or properly fake) serious long-term-relationship intentions.
In that case you have almost neverending choice.
But going in a club and pick-up a 8 or a 9.... quite hard.

The truth for sure.

I add that when I was in Russia, I witnessed how howful is the game of the normal young russian guy. These dudes don't have a clue how to get laid, and they just don't. Therefore it's normal for a cool western guy receiving a lot of attention from girls while in Russia, but you have to go on some dates. One night stands are still possible in cities with more "european" mentality like, eg, Saint Petersburg.
But don't forget that russian women have a kind of "romantic" mentality, so they can give you sex, even fast, but must feel a romantic involvement ecc. That's why russian girls usually get along with italian men.

(09-29-2014 12:04 PM)Garzero Wrote:  The simple truth is that, as a decent western guy, you can easily get an AVERAGE russian woman (usually very young, ugly face, thin body, submissive old-style-house-wife behaviour), but MOSTLY IF you have (or properly fake) serious long-term-relationship intentions.
In that case you have almost neverending choice.
But going in a club and pick-up a 8 or a 9.... quite hard.

How hard is it to get a Russian 8 or 9? Do need to give her the oligarch treatment? Speak fluent Russian? Live in Russia long-term?

Just curious since everyone seems to salivate over the Russian beauties, but how realistic is it for a Westerner to get a Russian 8 or 9?

There isn't much of an "in-between" zone with Russian women. Either hot or not, literally. Same with Italian. Even with all the fat women, the US might have more 6/7's per capita. The majority of women there aren't Russian supermodels, and the competition for them isn't going to be easy, even if there are a lot in the bigger cities.

(09-29-2014 01:20 PM)la_mode Wrote:  There isn't much of an "in-between" zone with Russian women. Either hot or not, literally. Same with Italian. Even with all the fat women, the US might have more 6/7's per capita. The majority of women there aren't Russian supermodels, and the competition for them isn't going to be easy, even if there are a lot in the bigger cities.

I got to disagree with this one. I see a lot of girls with average faces (6-7) but hot bodies (8-9).
I have this issue with one of girls in my rotation. She is 21 and with a great body. 5 feet 7" & 115 lbs and a few hours from Moscow in Tver. However the face is only a 7 at the best of times.
I see this often in women from Russian and FSU.

(09-29-2014 01:54 PM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

(09-29-2014 01:20 PM)la_mode Wrote:  There isn't much of an "in-between" zone with Russian women. Either hot or not, literally. Same with Italian. Even with all the fat women, the US might have more 6/7's per capita. The majority of women there aren't Russian supermodels, and the competition for them isn't going to be easy, even if there are a lot in the bigger cities.

I got to disagree with this one. I see a lot of girls with average faces (6-7) but hot bodies (8-9).
I have this issue with one of girls in my rotation. She is 21 and with a great body. 5 feet 7" & 115 lbs and a few hours from Moscow in Tver. However the face is only a 7 at the best of times.
I see this often in women from Russian and FSU.

Me too, I think the consistency is good in this part of the world, compared to the West at least.

(09-28-2014 09:02 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(09-28-2014 08:49 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  To be born a Russian man!

They have beautiful women but low/difficult quality of life.

Western men have horrible women but a way higher/easier quality of life.

You get the best of both worlds by making American dollars and moving to a place with beautiful women.

This is the "holy grail" of lifestyle game! For example, my social circle is deep, i have close to a million in "non-bankable" assets, and i've been to many countries not just to sight-see but to game, yet I can count on one hand the number of guys under the age of 40 who I have seen accomplish this.

To be honest for 99% of guys it is either living as a "pauper" (aka English instructor) in these pussy paradises of FSU or living as a millionaire but collecting pussy leftovers in the west. There really is no middle ground.

STORY :
A friend of mine moved to a Siberian town to work in the gold mines . He's from the u.k .
After a few weeks of settling in , he moved his wife and kid out to be with him . They are
Both in their early 30s. I lost contact with him . Months later I speak to a mutual friend and ask about this guy .. The mutual friend tells me they are now back in the uk ..'why ? He was making good coin and living like a king out there ?!' I ask ..
Turns out his wife ( a femnazi entitled western style cunt woman ) pissed of the entire local community of wives and girlfriends out there within a few weeks of her arrival by trying to get local Russian wives / girlfriends to 'be Independent ' and 'stop just doing the housework and serving their men ' etc.
Subsequently the local community of this Siberian town effectively run my friend and his loud mouth missus out of town due to her feminist shit stirring . Funny I thought .. He was perfectly fine before she turned up and started upsetting the apple cart .
Western woman = cunts

(09-29-2014 09:34 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

(09-28-2014 09:02 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(09-28-2014 08:49 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  To be born a Russian man!

They have beautiful women but low/difficult quality of life.

Western men have horrible women but a way higher/easier quality of life.

You get the best of both worlds by making American dollars and moving to a place with beautiful women.

This is the "holy grail" of lifestyle game! For example, my social circle is deep, i have close to a million in "non-bankable" assets, and i've been to many countries not just to sight-see but to game, yet I can count on one hand the number of guys under the age of 40 who I have seen accomplish this.

To be honest for 99% of guys it is either living as a "pauper" (aka English instructor) in these pussy paradises of FSU or living as a millionaire but collecting pussy leftovers in the west. There really is no middle ground.

Exactly.If lots of guys with coin could settle in these places the latter would have been already destroyed.It takes risk to travel there and many times it can harm you financially.It depends on how much you ask your cock before making decisions.

(09-30-2014 05:37 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  Exactly.If lots of guys with coin could settle in these places the latter would have been already destroyed.It takes risk to travel there and many times it can harm you financially.It depends on how much you ask your cock before making decisions.

In life only the bravest get rewarded.

Eat Borscht. Fuck bitches