Post: #1

Today I was reminded about this: it's not important if the girl kisses you or not on the first date. It is important that you try! Let me give you an example.

I was on a first date with a Rabbi daughter I picked up in Starbucks yesterday. We met up for lunch because I was in the area where she works. She's not only very Jewish but also young: 21. I picked a restaurant I knew would not be very crowded. I then did my classic move to sit next to her. Since it's not common to sit next to a girl on a first date in America I've had to invent a way to make this happen. What I do is, I act like I am really cold, because restaurants are always cold. I rub my arms and shiver. Then I ask her if I can sit next to her because I am cold. Of course, they never refuse. Once I sit down next to them I then act like it so much warmer and how they feel so warm. I hug them and tell them how good it feels being next to them. The reason sitting next to them is important is that it allows you to escalate very easily which I was doing throughout lunch. When she told me she goes to gym I felt up her arms and legs to see how much muscles she had. I knew I had to go for the kiss and it was planned but I lost track of the time. And suddenly it was time for her to go back to work. So I didn't have time to sexualize the interaction before the attempted kiss. So I had to decide, either go for the kiss with a high chance of rejection or try another time. I put my arms around her shoulder, give her a little shoulder massage and went for the kiss and got a slight face turn. I tried to kiss her about two more times and again outside by the car and got rejected each time.

So why did I do this knowing that the possibility of rejection was high? Because it is more important to establish "intent" on a first date than to actually get a kiss or whatever. It is more important for the girl to know in no uncertain terms what your intentions are and that you find her sexually attractive. You are laying the foundation for your future interactions with her. So no, I am never worried about whether a girl rejects me the first time or not. Because it's more important that she knows what my intentions are than about whether she's willing to accommodate them at that point in time or not.

So don't worry about the whether a girl will kiss you or not. Just go for it. It's better to go for it and be rejected than to never try at all or to wait too long and then her start thinking that you are not sexually attracted to her. Because it's more important to establish intent then to actually get the kiss. (I know this is the reason a lot of guys don't go for the kiss. They are afraid of being rejected. Well, I was rejected no less than four times today but I don't consider it a bad sign at all. She even asked me if I was upset - which is always a good sign.)

PS Today is also some big Jewish religious holiday. So I had another factor stacked against me. But it's amazing just how different this girl is from your typical American girl. She was educated in Europe and Israel and speaks multiple languages. She never once took out her phone and what did order for lunch? A little bowl of soup!

Post: #2

I think by going for the kiss you will avoid LJBF. However, I thought PUA philosophy taught that you shouldn't go on a date with a girl when sex was not an option, such as a work lunch date? The only exception being when you play the "our world" scenario when you or her are in a LTR.

Post: #3

First, I don't follow a lot of PUA advice because my objectives are different than theirs. I am not after SDL or SNL. I enjoy spending quality time with quality women and that time doesn't necessary have to be sexual. I do believe you need to establish sexual intent though to set the "tone" of the interaction.

Post: #4

I've been thinking about the whole kissing thing for awhile:

I actually find kissing my fuck buddies to be repulsive, I really do. I'd rather kiss a twat than a face.

I'm reserving kissing for people (like my European relatives) that I actually care about.

Post: #5

(09-24-2014 03:07 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  I think by going for the kiss you will avoid LJBF. However, I thought PUA philosophy taught that you shouldn't go on a date with a girl when sex was not an option, such as a work lunch date?

Old School PUA philosophy is born of the "fast seduction" mindset.

A fast seduction mindset is different than the "game" mindset or the "red pill" mindset.

Back in the day, guys doing fast seduction weren't worried about approaching, approach anxiety, attraction, or comfort and rapport, appearing alpha, sex at dawn, the red queen, or the feminine imperative.

Mostly because getting a girl on a date wasn't the insurmountable task that people who came after thought it was. As pick up got popular, guys with lower skill and confidence levels needed to be taught the basics of human interaction, and then the basics of dating.

But back in the day, the girl thought you were cute, liked you, but wanted sex on her schedule.

So rather than go through traditional courtship of bunch of dates, lots of money spent, lots of time wasted - guys were convinced that a regular guy could get that fast sex that the bad boys were getting.

Funny thing is, the dating world has changed significantly.

WIA

Post: #6

True. If a girl likes you she will never punish you for trying to kiss her. Even if she rejects the kiss at the moment, she will not reject you as man.
Morever, failed kiss attempt gives you some extra point for being bold and confident.

(On the other hand if she is offended by you trying to kiss her, you can be sure she wasn't into you from the first. You didnt lose her attraction as there were none from the begining. If anything you saved your time)

Going for a kiss is always win win.

remember that scene ?

Post: #7

I just think kissing isn't that big of a deal for chics. They're used to being pursued by every man. Girls are generally much more touchy feely, even with their bffs, than guys. Touching, kissing, any kino...these are everyday things for chics, and tools for girls to throw out there to avoid sex.

That said, as we all know touching and kissing are still vital steps in the whole penis-in-vagina process.

Post: #8

(09-24-2014 03:12 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  First, I don't follow a lot of PUA advice because my objectives are different than theirs. I am not after SDL or SNL. I enjoy spending quality time with quality women and that time doesn't necessary have to be sexual. I do believe you need to establish sexual intent though to set the "tone" of the interaction.

This is a huge mistake. It is very easy to think that one is "above" what players say, or "that advice doesn't apply to my situation".

In R-selected societies, it is easier to get sex from a young girl than it is to get commitment. It is easier to bang her once than to bang her twice.

When a girl in the West is 15, she wants a boyfriend, she is curious about men and wants to explore them further. By 20 she holds a deep hatred for them, she cannot give herself to anyone because she has been spat on one too many times. In reality, she is finished as a person. Aided by the ideals of feminism, she turns to her career and "using" men for sex. This is empowering to her, it is empowering because she gets to spit back on those who spat on her.

The same thing happens to naturals (in the West), one teenage breakup, added to the fratboy ideals, and you have a player for life. Or even the ex-nerd who secretly hates women since childhood (something he can't even admit to himself, it just lurks there in his subconscious) and must prove himself worthy by collecting notches.

What I mean by all this is that PUA advice is there for a reason. Your wants and desires are no different from other men. We all want affection, and femininity, and being taken care of by a nice girl. We all want that, no matter how hard we look on the surface. The degree to which we admit that to ourselves depends on how badly we have been hurt, and how dense our shield is. A slut is no more than a girl who has been spat on too many times. A natural is a man who has too much pain on his record.

A good player is in the middle: He recognizes his desires, in all of their amplitude, but he boxes women into covering one desire or another, depending on their mentality. With reference to your post, you are dealing with Jewish-American whore who has likely fucked plenty of men within hours of the first meet. She won't even kiss you with lips that once sucked boatloads of strange dirty dick. You are dealing with a classic case of slut-ASD and you are a sucker for not filtering her out.

If a girl is R-selected, there is no viable strategy but the pump-n-dump, whatever your desires and wants are. Many women will reject alpha males pre-emptively because they know what's coming. In the same way, naturals reject sluts because, deep in their heart, whatever their hamster tells them, they also know what's coming. I'm sure you would love a relationship with a nice girl, but you must ALWAYS adapt your strategy to the mentality you are dealing with, or you will get burned, spat on and laughed at. If you don't fuck an R-girl when she wants to be fucked, you will never see her again. If you fuck her, you probably won't see her again either, but at least you got to fuck her.

You may say she is a good girl. You may ask if there are any good girls in America. The answer is no. There are no good girls in America. Cultural influence is too powerful and women too permeable. Boxing women into categories and learning how to filter is advice that is 100% independent from the player's desires.

Post: #9

(09-24-2014 03:12 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  First, I don't follow a lot of PUA advice because my objectives are different than theirs. I am not after SDL or SNL. I enjoy spending quality time with quality women and that time doesn't necessary have to be sexual. I do believe you need to establish sexual intent though to set the "tone" of the interaction.

Why do you have to establish sexual intent if you are looking for 'quality' time?

Post: #10

This section of the forum needs to be called nomad/jariel. I had a feeling it was one of these two who made this thread.

Post: #11

I think Nomad's advice is very Miami specific. To survive in Miami, you MUST adopt a different approach and mentality. In other parts of the US, you can actually push yourself out of an easy lay with such a heavy push and such assumptions. These lizard threads should come with a Miami city suffix.

Post: #12

(09-24-2014 04:52 PM)Moma Wrote:  Why do you have to establish sexual intent if you are looking for 'quality' time?

This is an absolutely EXCELLENT question.

By establishing sexual intent, Nomad keeps himself out of the friend zone.

When you do anything that demonstrates your goal is to get sexual with a chick, then it is impossible for her to confuse your intentions with anything else.

Every chick is not in tune with the motives of a man. Some are naive/gullible and will actually think that you're on a friendly tip -- this is especially true for younger, less experienced women.

Nomad has sounded the whistle, which means the game is on. Any communication/interaction that he has with this chick from this point on will let him know that she's likely down, because if she's not down, she's not going to continue to interact with a guy who's going for kisses that will eventually lead to sex.

Post: #13

(09-24-2014 05:05 PM)Moma Wrote:  I think Nomad's advice is very Miami specific. To survive in Miami, you MUST adopt a different approach and mentality. In other parts of the US, you can actually push yourself out of an easy lay with such a heavy push and such assumptions. These lizard threads should come with a Miami city suffix.

If you can score in Miami, you can score anywhere.

Like I said, playing the game here is like playing the Lakers everyday.

If you can beat the Lakers, the Jazz, Bobcats, Nuggets, Bucks, etc. are layups.

Post: #14

yea but jariel, the problem is, that Nomad keeps denying he has sexual intent with these lizards and stating he is looking for quality time. There is no need to deny one's intent, it's not criminal to want to have sex with a pretty woman, that's how we were created and designed.

When I want 'quality' time with a lizard, I do not make nor need to make any sexual intent. I just chat to her the same way I chat to a male buddy and if things escalate into a sexual fashion so be it.

There is no need for me to worry about if she kisses me, what zone I'm placed in if my intent has no sexual undertone to it.

Post: #15

How the hell isn't there a Nomad77 appreciation thread yet ?

I love his insight. I agree, even though he got rejected, he kept himself out of the friend zone. Always go for the kiss.

Post: #16

(09-24-2014 05:14 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-24-2014 05:05 PM)Moma Wrote:  I think Nomad's advice is very Miami specific. To survive in Miami, you MUST adopt a different approach and mentality. In other parts of the US, you can actually push yourself out of an easy lay with such a heavy push and such assumptions. These lizard threads should come with a Miami city suffix.

If you can score in Miami, you can score anywhere.

Like I said, playing the game here is like playing the Lakers everyday.

If you can beat the Lakers, the Jazz, Bobcats, Nuggets, Bucks, etc. are layups.

I think there is a different game required for different cities. Nomad's advice is not for those looking to score (he said himself). He's looking for quality lizards not SNL. Miami is a city to ramp up your ability to look for SNL not build quality relationships. I have <insert family member> that eats very well there and he is EXTREMELY skeptical of lizards there. He has detailed events where he has seen colleagues gorilla fcuk married lizards in the jacuzzi and the same lizard will go home to trick off their hubbie's dollars from slaving away at two jobs. I'm not saying that this is unique to Miami but the likelihood of that happening is significantly higher and more brazen there.

It's a culture of getting one over which detracts from bothering to build relationships of significance.

Post: #17

(09-24-2014 05:14 PM)Moma Wrote:  yea but jariel, the problem is, that Nomad keeps denying he has sexual intent with these lizards and stating he is looking for quality time. There is no need to deny one's intent, it's not criminal to want to have sex with a pretty woman, that's how we were created and designed.

When I want 'quality' time with a lizard, I do not make nor need to make any sexual intent. I just chat to her the same way I chat to a male buddy and if things escalate into a sexual fashion so be it.

There is no need for me to worry about if she kisses me, what zone I'm placed in if my intent has no sexual undertone to it.

He said he enjoys quality time, BUT the time doesn't have to necessarily be sexual.

That doesn't mean he doesn't want there to be any intimacy at all.

For him, if the woman is a quality woman and the time being spent is quality time, then he's not concerned if the sex is going from 0 to 100.

That being said, it is imperative that you let the woman know where you are leading the interaction. Just because it doesn't go there immediately doesn't mean you took an L, if anything, it's really a can't lose proposition because if you get rejected and she's not feeling that with you, you save time from continuing to game an uninterested chick. If she's down immediately, you get what you want. If she's not down, but she keeps interacting with you, it's just a matter of time before you're diving over the pile into the end zone.

Post: #18

(09-24-2014 05:22 PM)Moma Wrote:  I think there is a different game required for different cities. Nomad's advice is not for those looking to score (he said himself). He's looking for quality lizards not SNL. Miami is a city to ramp up your ability to look for SNL not build quality relationships. I have <insert family member> that eats very well there and he is EXTREMELY skeptical of lizards there. He has detailed events where he has seen colleagues gorilla fcuk married lizards in the jacuzzi and the same lizard will go home to trick off their hubbie's dollars from slaving away at two jobs. I'm not saying that this is unique to Miami but the likelihood of that happening is significantly higher and more brazen there.

It's a culture of getting one over which detracts from bothering to build relationships of significance.

I agree with you, Miami is not a city for quality relationships. I would even argue it's not the best city for SNLs.

Meeting single, unencumbered women here, I mean, we're talking about UM type chicks, otherwise, regular Miamians are single moms, divorcees or people stuck in relationships of convenience, so there's always someone to get home to, whether it be a chump or a chump's offspring.

I stand by my assessment though, you need real game here. So when you go on the road, if your foundation is here, you should do well other places, that doesn't mean run Miami game other places, players have to adapt to whatever environment they choose to run in.

Post: #19

I would actually say Toronto is harder for game than Miami. In Miami, you have a few positives.


PROS:

1) The lizards are much prettier so at least you don't feel bad being blown out by an old water buffalo with beaucoup kids. I went out multiple times with Nomad and I saw women that were gorgeous to me.
I also went out with <insert family member> and we were at a club trying to get in. There was a trollop of fat lizards and the bouncers/doormen shamelessly left them standing there for over an hour plus. They eventually got pissed off and left. Miami doesn't care about ugly lizards. It's all about looks, glamour and money. Many are roided or surgeried up to have swollen pecs, breasts, ripped abs and anyone who looks average gets kicked unabashedly to the side.
Fat dumpy hags aren't even allowed to feel sorry for themselves (in my observation).

2) Because of the high amount of millionaires and covert superstars there, a lizard can't just tell you to take a hike because she NEVER quite knows. Some guy could be as chumpish as hell and end up being some young millionaire with yachts, million dollar condos and small countries as part of his personal portfolio. Imagine how she would feel recognising this guy from the night on tv announcing the opening of some grand villa before as she wakes up in her parents basic house in Dade county. Due to this, one can fake it until they make it and there is always the possibility of an airhead a guy can dupe for easy sex.


3) You have a high incidence of tourists there. I made out with a Filipina on the beach there and one of my friends banged her friend in the ocean. I also met a brunette German who had a West African boyfriend there. The volume of traffic for fine lizards is high there.

4) Hot tropical weather means hormones are optimal (most people are hornier during the summer) and you can game in different spots at any time of the year. You are not limited to seasons. It's party and fcuk 365.

5) The dudes really seem to be easy going about you spitting game at their lizard. I went out one night with Nomad and I was talking to some black lizard from the bahamas and was sitting in her boyfriend's seat (I didn't see that he had gone to the bathroom). He came back and waited amicably for me to finish spitting his game. When I saw him in my peripherals, he apologised and said that he was sitting there. Both of them wished me good luck.
Another night, I was trying my luck with a Brazillian on South Beach and her boyfriend stood a few yards back smiling encouragingly.

CONS:

1) You are competing with a lot of stars, millionaires, actors, athletes. Some of them are arrogant and if you are not holding a strong frame, you will be left holding the pieces unless you find a tourist (which again if you are on south beach isn't too hard).

2) The lizards are vapid so if you trying to run some intellectual game to charm them, forget it. You have to posture well in order to gas their airheads. Try to hit that night if possible and feel no shame about it.

Now Toronto:

CONS:
1) Has a strong feminist, PC infrastructure that puts power largely in lizards hands. You cannot fake it to make it in Toronto because you don't have as many unassuming stars there as you do in Miami. If you openly say "Damn, she got a phat ass", you will get ostracised in Toronto by those who don't have a phat ass or are just having a bad day and it could cost your membership in that circle.

2) Toronto has a village mentality and I think this is the biggest downer. Lizards cockblock heavily there. If the group doesn't approve you, you are fcuked (unless you can somehow isolate the lizard and keep her from the mother hen. In Miami, I've seen lizards standing by their friend casually as she is being tongued down by a dude. Lizards don't care too much about what their friend thinks there. It's a me, me mentality which means one doesn't even need to incorporate isolate and destroy so much.

3) Entitlement issues from very average lizards which gets in the way wen you trying to spit at hotter lizards. Hotter lizards in Toronto can be ruder since there is a higher premium for them. Miami lizards have to be cordial because you could be Lebron James's cousin or Felix Barbosa's nephew pulling major loot.

I could go on but you get the general drift.

Post: #20

Thanks Guys for clarifying my point! For me life is not about one thing or another. It's not about quality time OR sex. It's about quality time AND quality sex! It doesn't matter what I am doing with a woman, I want to be able to enjoy the time I spend with her. I don't care about notches. I am not concerned with getting another notch at the end of the night. I am focused on getting a good experience and enjoying myself. If sex happens to be a part of that great! When you become too focused on any given outcome you are no longer able to enjoy the experience. For me life is about acquiring great experiences and sex is only one of those experiences. As it is, after living in Brazil for two years, I doubt any American girl is going to give me any kind of sexual experience that will even come close to the Brazilians.

Post: #21

Whats with 'R selection' and 'K selection' nowadays.

Sounds like unnecessary science for this, in my opinion.

Post: #22

(09-24-2014 03:36 PM)YossariansRight Wrote:  I've been thinking about the whole kissing thing for awhile:

I actually find kissing my fuck buddies to be repulsive, I really do. I'd rather kiss a twat than a face.

I'm reserving kissing for people (like my European relatives) that I actually care about.

Post: #23

(09-24-2014 07:29 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  Whats with 'R selection' and 'K selection' nowadays.

Sounds like unnecessary science for this, in my opinion.

It's the new way of saying Alpha/Beta, and it sounds more science-y than bad boy/nerd.

WIA

Post: #24

You won't get the lay most likely in the next two weeks since these are some of the biggest holidays in the Jewish year. The first one starts tonight and ends this Friday called Rosh Hoshana. The Jewish new Year. Next Saturday is Yom Kippur which is the day of atonement. You fast for an entire day to beg for forgiveness for your sins. Premarital sex would a huge sin if religious. If not she still might have a hang up on that day. If she is religious she will be on her best behavior these two holidays. And I believe something happens after Yom Kippur but I forget.

I do like the show of intent though will have to try that.

Post: #25

(09-24-2014 04:03 PM)heavy Wrote:  I just think kissing isn't that big of a deal for chics. They're used to being pursued by every man. Girls are generally much more touchy feely, even with their bffs, than guys. Touching, kissing, any kino...these are everyday things for chics, and tools for girls to throw out there to avoid sex.

That said, as we all know touching and kissing are still vital steps in the whole penis-in-vagina process.

^^^Along these lines, I was wondering about a kiss I had today.

I randomly ran into a girl I had a date with two nights ago. We had great passionate kissing after the date two nights ago. She's also girl I have banged before multiple times and had a good affair with that we're trying to rekindle.

So today...I randomly run into her at a coffeeshop during the day where she's studying in her workout clothes with no makeup. (she still looks good)

We actually set up a date for 5 days from now. When I have her walk me to my car as I have to return to work, I go for the kiss and it's kind of a quick double peck/smack. She says "bye love" and awkwardly walks off fast.

So , how about girl's you've kissed ( and banged ) before who when you go for the kiss....they kind of rush it or aren't as into it as they were on your last date? ( albeit this wasn't a date....like I said, I just randomly bumped into her and chatted for 10 minutes before going for the kiss and returning to work) Is it to Heavy's point above that kissing is no big deal for chicks.....or should you read some loss of interest or nervousness here?