Post: #1

There is a mindset on here that's promoted by certain guys that anytime a girl is not responding the way you want her to that the problem is you and your Game - that your "Game" is not "tight enough". This completely ignores the reality that the girl is her own entity and makes her own decisions based on factors you are not even aware of. So there are a lot of guys out there thinking 1. that if I just send her the right text I will get that date, or 2. if she's not responding it's because I didn't "Game" her just right. It's never the woman's fault, it's always our fault. This mentally completely ignores the fact that you can do everything 100% right and still fail with a girl - and for a variety of reasons.

At the end of the day, you are and will always be only 50% of any relationship. Unless the girl decides to contribute to it, you have no relationship. It's just that simple. Now, you can choose to believe that you can "game" any girl into having a relationship with you but then you will be beating yourself up every time things don't go as expected. All you can do is the best you can do at that time and hope the girl decides to help out for whatever reason. There are as many reasons she may decide to have sex with you as they are reasons she may decide not to. Women are emotional creatures and their decisions about men and sex are still, for the most part, emotionally based. This is why, it is always a numbers game. So stop blaming yourself if a girl doesn't want to see you and just keep going until you find one that does. Especially in today's hyper-stimulated world, a girl can change her mind by the second based on just a single beep of her phone and no amount of game is going to be able to compensate for this.

Here is a another writer that recently wrote about this and a guy I respect: Maverick

http://www.mavericktraveler.com/game-two-way-street/

PS Let me give you an example. I met this girl up in Cape Cod when I was up there. I recently found out she was coming down to Miami. We exchanged a few very good messages on facebook. She's seems very interested in meeting up. Last night she landed in Miami and send me message that she had just arrived and would I like to meet up. I responded sure, where are you staying. I never heard from her again. Was my game not "tight enough", was my messages not clever enough, or maybe, just maybe she or her friend decided to do something else with someone else for whatever reason? Maybe her phoned just beeped right after she sent that message

Post: #2

I think it's usually some PUA scam guys that promote the idea that you can literally get ANY girl provided that you say or do the right thing.

At the end of the day, there's so many factors that are out of your control that you shouldn't beat your head over a girl who flakes or doesn't put out, chances are she just wasn't available, timing wasn't right or she simply has too many options.

It's good to think over some interactions to spot possible mistakes, but there's no point in over analysing, better to keep approaching and move on.

Post: #3

You've confirmed my suspicions, Nomad77. I've had ice cold, Steve McQueen game this entire time. It's just that these all these hoes I approached all had issues.

...

Time to wax philosophical for a second despite my nonexistent notch count: I think I know why some men reinforce this view you mentioned.

For me, assuming that "my game" was responsible for 100% of the girl's responses to me was positive at first because it gave me an illusion of control.

When your entire dating (or non-dating) history before game was rife with a lack of control ("Wtf, girls are unpredictable, they say A, then do B. I can't improve my chances, blah blah blah"), this fallacy is positive and motivating.

The logic goes:

Quote:Game alone is all that is necessary for getting girls.

Anyone can learn Game.

Game alone can get me girls! Hurray! Poosy Paradise!

Now that I've developed a small cache of postive reference experiences, I sometimes get spider-sense tingles. E.g., "Hey, she's giving me the same vibe and eyes that girl I made out with gave me....BUT she doesn't want to do XYZ....I haven't said anything stupid. Maybe it's not my fault?"

Plenty of guys in the PUA community have written about this, just using different words/methods. You may notice that Roosh has alluded to it in many of his articles and in many different ways.

E.g. from his latest "5 Things You Should Know About Russia" article:

Quote:"There are two foreign ideals to a Russian woman: the German ideal (fair complexion) and the Italian ideal (dark complexion). If you approach a girl with the wrong ideal, you will get nowhere, but if you have the right one, she will let you spit some game. Almost all the interactions I had in Moscow that led to at least a phone number exchange was on girls who expressed some interest in Italy, similar to how Polish girls would inquire if I was Spanish. These experiences make me wonder if game is nothing more than a tool to be used on a girl who doesn’t object to our general look."

- RooshV

There's also Roosh's frequent warning that when you go in a venue of 10 women, there at most three "gameable" ones [paraphrasing here].

Still, if I knew this was a total "numbers game" when I first started I would have just played more guitar.

Also, certainly somethings (like not being an idiot, G.T.L., and approaching more girls, more often) will hopefully improve your odds.

EDIT: I'm done keyboard jockeying now.

Post: #4

No.

Emphatically, no.

Your brain is a machine, designed to solve problems. "You can't win them all" is your way of turning your brain off. You gave your brain a problem: "I can't fuck every girl I try to fuck." Your brain has put forth a solution for you, and you've accepted it: "Well, you're only 50% of the equation. The chick can still bow out. You can't control her."

FUCK. THAT. SOLUTION.

Game is, as you accurately describe, about altering everything that you can about yourself. It teaches us to overcome or fix our physical and social limitations so that we can attract the girls we want. Over time we increase our notch counts and learn to convert our own attraction into approaches, but then our own approaches into bangs. This is about changing her.

Game IS about changing her mind. It is about walking up as a different person than the schlub we started out as, and pushing the buttons to get laid. It teaches us to push through last minute resistance. It teaches us to utilize her hamster against her, nuke it, and have her fall for you.

Logically, you can argue that a woman has 50% of the control over your interactions, and she does. Game teaches us to reduce that control, to subtly change her so that she makes decisions that lead to you fucking her brains out. Why are you deciding to stop yourself?

Yes, you will not bang 100% of the women you try to. But each failure should be an examination. You don't have to beat yourself up, but you should try to figure out why it didn't work. You should wonder to yourself "why didn't this go right?" Not accept "maybe she or her friend decided to do something else with someone else for whatever reason? Maybe her phoned just beeped right after she sent that message". There's no way to improve from there.

Just because you have a successful formula for 60% (or whatever arbitrary amount you pick) of chicks, doesn't mean that it 'should' work on the other 40%, but they just weren't open. You can alter your game for those other 40%, do something shocking, change things up. Figure out a way to identify that 40% early and start trying new shit. We've all done this at low levels of game (different game on phones, with hipster chicks, Cali girls, etc), why stop because your brain can't figure how to squeeze the last percentage out?

If you can't figure out why, you STILL shouldn't excuse it away. Leaving your brain running on autopilot is, in my opinion, one of the most fantastic methods of solving problems ever. Once you accept excuses for failure, you turn your brain off. You've made the decision to stop growing.

And that, to me, is always the wrong decision.

"Willing is not enough; we must do."

Post: #5

@Texas This is not about NOT trying. It is about the realization that you can give it 110% and still fail because there are many external factors that you simply cannot control, compensate for, or are even aware of.

Post: #6

There is no point processing this information. This is a form of negativity. There is nothing positive guaranteed in life so why waste time with percentages? There is nothing in life were one will yield 100% of attempts made. Michael Jordan's field goal average was below 50% but everyone feared when he had the ball in his hand so what did that mean?

Post: #7

Game has opened my eyes to a spectrum that I couldnt see before. How to size up a crowd, focus on girls that are giving the right signals, go in confidently and finally stick my dick in them. Before, I just minded my own damn business and got nothing. Girls do not fuck for charity. They fuck guys that know what they are doing.

Post: #8

Its simply a problem in being outcome oriented, which with women you can't be.

Women have way too many variables for you to rely simply on the outcome. I struggle with this at times. Sometimes I beat myself up because I couldn't close the deal. Then I realize that such is life, you can't win them all. Some women will completely dig me. They may be dimes or they may be fives. Some women will detest me. They may dimes or they may be fives.

They only thing I measure my success on is how I move through my life.

Post: #9

Chris at Good Looking Loser has a good post on this:
http://www.goodlookingloser.com/more/arc...ers-game//

Not every girl you hit on will be available at the time you hit on her. Next week, the next day or two hours later, different story.

Post: #10

The environment is significantly more important than game. The environment dictates the rules, the path you must follow. Game is just about following it correctly.

In the US there is a hookup culture. If you try to get into a relationship with a young girl, most of the time you will fail, therefore the environment enforces a game of fast escalation, pre-emptive pump n' dumps, and shedding of emotional connection. That is what the environment asks of the player, American men are the way they are, unemotional like cyborgs, because their women have imposed that paradigm on them.

Take Russia on the other hand. Not considering rare exceptions, most Russian girls won't fuck you outside of the context of a relationship. They believe in love and have a Disney mindset towards man-woman interactions. Things happen extremely slowly and emotional connection is a must. The environment enforces a game of deep rapport and slow seduction. Something interesting in Russia is that you will find very few players. Most Russian men, even the top alpha dogs, are all in relationships (even if he might be doing things on the side). Their environment favours this, many Russian men believe in love just as strongly as their women do, their environment has "moulded" them.
Your game plan is determined by the environment. It just depends on how well you execute it, and even then most of the time you will fail.

The most important thing is that your objectives are aligned with the values of the environment. If you want fast sex in Russia, you probably won't find it. The same goes for the opposite scenario: If you want connection of any kind of "humanness" in your interactions with women, it doesn't matter how many women you approach, you won't find it in the West. R-selected women require R-selected game.

Post: #11

Goddamn you Nomad, stop spitting game truths at our face Im just trying to finish this marketing report

Without bothering with the percentage, I have always always wondered about this since starting game but I kept my mouth shut until I have the experience to talk about.

I discovered thing we might have forgotten: chicks are actually also humans (ok, maybe not very mature ones), and sometimes they dont know how to respond to your game



Remember what Roosh said at the beginning of Bang? Back at the days if you put a naked girl in his lap he wouldnt know what to do. I think we all have been there.

So are a lot of girls. Since we have to deal with a shit storm of flake, rejections, escalation and mindgame, and since we also tend to deal with a lot of slutty types, its very easy to conclude that all girls have game and can respond accordingly

But look at your own data, you will soon see its not always the case.


I once have a girl approach me and ask me to dance. 100% YES girl. Her friends then told me she really really like me and tried to set us up. I comply and run usual routines, but once I escalated she became really really shy and clam up. Before I could get back to her she disappeared.

I saw this very cute girl (nice thin body, cute face) but with a huge burn on her face. Obviously she s very socially aware and shy because of this. I asked her to dance and she and her friends was shocked. Run game as usual, I could see the sparkle in her eyes, but she soon politely retreated to her friends. Its the same when you eject from an approach because you are nervous or extremely self-concious.

Another girl I met in martial arts. Told her to give me massages, in front of everyone. Check. To go grab a drink. Check. Wait for me at the door. Check. Let me run my best game and get all touchy for 2h. Check. After that date I never saw her again, she disappeared. Some girls ARE AFRAID to be attracted to a man. Their instinct is to protect that little vagina.


And plus there are girls who, when attracted to somebody, clam up and sweat instead of getting all touchy giggly.

It takes two to tango. Or salsa

I guess the bottom line is that, girls make game mistakes just like guys do, even though they are more often aware than us. So stop beating up on yourselves, cut your losses, and keep running the numbers game. Its still not an excuse to not push interactions at the max.

Post: #12

I think this may be true for the most advantage players, the average guy really MESSES things up.

I have rolled with guys with different levels of game and I have seen how most of guys just don't understand how to escalate and close. Fuck it, I also did in my younger years, there are certain girls that I didn't bang but if I was to meet them again, I am sure I would bang them, the reason why I didn't bang them was simply because my escalation skills were average.

The other thing is that game has just too much variables that most of guys will never understand unless they are rolling constantly with guys that understand those variables, variables such as: Frame, Vibe, escalation skills, being sexual, understanding cultural differences, not being nice, being direct, not listening what a woman says, ignore the fact that she is not showing much interest in you etc. If you think that most of guys even in the game community understand this, then think again.

Post: #13

@Dalaran Thanks! You reasons why are girl does something does not matter. It could be any of 100 different reasons. You always have two choices: move on or continue to pursue the girl. Sometimes, you just need to step back a bit and give her some breathing room. Remember the golden rule of escalation: one step forward and two steps back. A lot of guys have a problem with the two steps back part. Sometimes, you have to pull back even with a girl you already are banging. And this is where the discipline comes in.

@pitt True, you can always improve yourself and your game. But at the point in time you are interacting with the girl you are what you are and your game is what it is. You don't have time to change either. So it's like any decision you make in life. You will do the best you can do under the circumstances. It might not be good enough but all you can do is try to learn from it and apply the change to a future approach. Sitting there beating yourself up because you didn't do something won't change anything. Also doesn't matter how good you are, we can never be operating at 100% all the time and we all make mistakes. (I make mistakes all the time. I even know when I am doing it. But being completely non-reactive and unemotional is inhuman.) Even when you are good you are still constantly having to relearn stuff. I personally spent years basically re-programming my mind.

But what you said was truth: approach and escalating are the two big stumbling blocks for guys.

Post: #14

Thanks Nomad77,

Normally I try to focus on where I can improve, but after having a psycho girl suddenly walk out on me for no reason last night seconds after being on top of me and asking if I had a condom, this was exactly what I needed to read today.