Post: #76

I've been to Atlanta a number of times and have never seen that, if that's true, it's not right, IIRC, at some point you lived there right?

Post: #77

(09-08-2014 01:56 PM)jariel Wrote:  I've been to Atlanta a number of times and have never seen that, if that's true, it's not right, IIRC, at some point you lived there right?

Yes, I grew up in GA going to an almost all black school, and lived in Atlanta for a short time.

My family still lives there.

Post: #78

(09-08-2014 01:36 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-08-2014 01:10 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Jariel - I love your posts usually but every white person has experiences racism in some way, and especially in Atlanta where black people are something like 80% of the population and use that leverage to make up for every perceived transgression against black people in history.

Fisto, this is an interesting statement because I'd like to know what you consider to be an example of a perceived transgression.

I think it's a serious issue when people try to dismiss things that have actually happened to people, like as if they just conjured these things up in their minds while they were at home with nothing else better to do.

This particular community has a number of what may be considered as legitimately perceived transgressions.

Atlanta was home to large race riot at the turn of the 20th century because the media decided to report false stories of black men raping white women.

That riot completely changed the dynamics of the entire city and the relationships between its inhabitants.

Things have actually happened.

We may not have experienced them, so they may not be real to us, but it doesn't change the fact that they are real.

That happened in 1906, for fuck's sake.

Post: #79

I am honestly unsure what "he has some African in him" is meant to imply, or what people are interpreting it as implying.

Post: #80

(09-08-2014 01:57 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(09-08-2014 01:56 PM)jariel Wrote:  I've been to Atlanta a number of times and have never seen that, if that's true, it's not right, IIRC, at some point you lived there right?

Yes, I grew up in GA going to an almost all black school, and lived in Atlanta for a short time.

My family still lives there.

Well there's no doubt that past transgressions still play a role in today's society, it's unfortunate because we weren't a part of those things, yet we have to deal with the circumstances of them.

I won't deny what you've stated, my previous point has to do with the denial towards things that are real just because one hasn't experienced or seen them themselves.

That's part of the reason it's very difficult to have a discussion about these issues because some people would like to dialogue about them, and some people aren't interested because to them it's not something that's actually real and thus worthy of discussion.

Post: #81

(09-08-2014 02:01 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  I am honestly unsure what "he has some African in him" is meant to imply, or what people are interpreting it as implying.

It means that he is a black guy by appearances (African), but is not completely culturally "black" in the American sense (African-American).

It would literally be the exact same thing if you were dealing with a white hockey team who had a Russian born and raised player who looked the same as the other guys, but of whom it could be said, "He's got some Russian in him." Meaning, he still has some Russian personal characteristics and behavioral that are apparent when interacting with him.

There's absolutely no judgment or negative connotation in either case, simply the acknowledgement of an existing cultural difference.

The fact that a statement like that triggered a racism investigation is something so farcical that it's hard to believe, even in the USA in 2014.

Post: #82

I don't think that interpretation is intellectually honest.

The statement was prefaced with "He's not perfect", and Ferry realized he said something a little strange which is why he tried to cover it with "I don't mean that in a bad way."

You wouldn't make a negative statement and then immediately follow it with a positive statement, without stating something to separate the two, like "he's stubborn, but he's a hard worker".

Deng being "African" has nothing to do with the Hawks evaluating him as a basketball player.

Talk about his ball-handling, his defense, his long-range shooting ability, anything that has to do with his game as basketball player, one at this point, who is an established veteran in the league, him being Sudanese, has nothing to do with it, which let me add, is entirely different from saying someone is "African", we shouldn't even be getting into how ignorant such a statement sounds, as if people from the second largest continent in the world can be homogenized into one people.

Both Deng and Ferry went to Duke, Deng is not only viewed as an all-star caliber player, great teammate, etc. he's also a humanitarian, you can look at all of his accomplishments in that arena on your own.

That statement looks really bad for Ferry, and I have a hard time seeing him in the position long-term for the Hawks, I don't see anyone on the mainstream defending that statement.

Post: #83

(09-07-2014 01:59 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  We black people are in deep deep shit!! Since this is now considered racist by the PC police, people will start to loose their $ opportunities by not being able to speak the truth.

And when enough people will be angry about it... then watch out... just like with feminism. Unfortunately this one is a no way out for us black people. The only way we could strongly reduce the aggression from true racism is by having a strong family unity in our communities,thus reducing government assistance, but that ain't happening anytime soon!

Life is so ironic! The very liberal people feeling good at night about protecting me as a black person are actually fucking up my environment by increasing the buried hate from people by not being allowing them to simply speak the truth. You simply can't fuck with the truth, and the PC cops are trying to bury it. Bad for everyone!

I agree. What's even worse is that I have known other rich black business men to say the exact same things this man complained about in his letter. If you have a business that caters to other blacks, you will eventually have to deal with this same shit. We all talk about it among ourselves, why can't they say it?

On a side note, Blacks in Atlanta are an interesting group. They make way more money than your average group of blacks anywhere else in the country and many have high end corporate jobs. They definitely spend money over there, but the way that they spend money there can be seen in his email if you read between the lines.

For example, he noted how they do not wear the team jerseys to the arena. Atlanta people are so worried about looking cute, that they probably go to the games to peacock and meet people rather than get totally into the team. They do this with other stuff there from what I heard, so to hear that they are doing it at the sports arena is an interesting social observation that doesn't really surprise me.

For him to talk about how there are too many blacks at the games, (that crime part in the email he thought was bogus), is interesting as well. The part about late attendance is as well. I have been hearing alot from business partners and friends in that area about how black people have completely taken that city over. Another successful black friend of mine told me 2 months ago, he saw Bentleys and Benz cars parked illegally at non-upscale restaurants, and said it was like Atlanta was "Full of rich niggas everywhere, doing the same things regular black people do". "No one was breaking the law, but just having a good ole time, the same way poorer black do (being loud, hanging out everywhere, being late to stuff, etc)."

Whites keep trying to find areas to live, hangout, and eat to get away from most of them but they are finding it harder to do as more of them become successful. I've been told that the upscale neighborhoods are now mixed up as well. I heard this from another person there.

In a way the best social observation I can see from all of this, if true, is that when the money line gets blurred, Black people will not assimilate into American culture as much as other groups in the past have. In other words, money will not fix their integration issues. Maybe it just needs more time, but for now they have not assimilated well even as their money has increased. I tend not to think it will happen anytime soon because culture itself in America, across the board, is in decline. They are going to keep doing whatever it is they want to do because they can.

Any cultural changes or adjustments look like they must be done generational or more inter-mixing over time. I also think blacks do better when they not completely surrounded by each other. Things that are very "American" or "Western" to do like screaming/cheering and yelling for your players, have caught on in places like Houston, because all the Mexican Americans, Blacks, and Whites go nuts when JJ Watt or Andre Johnson comes out or any player for that matter. The players love the fans here. We are more mixed up than Atlanta is. We all get lots of opportunities here to cross learn and not get in homogeneous culture soaking circles. Our new soccer stadium is very mixed up and we have adopted Mexican/Latin American soccer cultural stuff and added in other American soccer rituals from other parts of the US as well. I like seeing stuff like guys of each color playing musical instruments and singing a soccer song together, it's complete integration the way it was supposed to be. Team USA soccer fans have impressed me on this as well.

Post: #84

"He's not perfect," meaning he probably doesn't culturally mesh with the rest of the roster, most of whom are American born blacks.

Fitting in as a teammate has a lot to do with playing basketball.

That is the only explanation that makes sense. Why else would he specifically mention African? If it was a race thing he'd say black (which again, obviously makes no sense as well given that the rest of the roster is black too).

"He's not perfect, he's got some African in him."

Translation: "He's a great player but we have concerns about his ability to fit in with the rest of our roster due to his cultural background."

I think any other explanation for the statement would be an extreme stretch, especially one that attributes racist motivations. There is simply no other explanation that really makes sense. Even if the GM was secretly the most racist man alive, he wouldn't be stupid enough to let slip anything remotely racist on a live conference call. You can clearly understand the intent behind what he was saying if you take off the racist/victim glasses and just think about it logically. The idea that an NBA GM would express anti-black views as a justification for leaving a player off his roster is the most idiotic thing one can imagine, especially since his roster is already made up almost entirely of blacks. Epic racism fail.

Post: #85

(09-08-2014 12:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I don't see any "racism" here..






Slaves were free labor.

We gave up free labor for the sake of "morality".

From a business or economic standpoint, free labor makes a lot of sense.

Yet, we did away with slavery in order to make ourselves feel more moral or "civilized".




---

Forced political correctness is a joke.

Free labor does not make any sense at all. This is digging into an economics issue/debate, but forced labor does not enrich a society beyond a certain point. Merit based systems where a reward for work generates the best results, by giving men an incentive to work towards. Something they can apply their goals to. This may sound crazy to some of you, but there was a reason why European slavery and indentured servitude was done, and in a awkward kind of way, slaves were either repaying a debt, learning how to be civilized through hard work (a hard type of apprenticeship), learn the new language, a spoil/prisoner of war. Only America's system of slavery relegated that to an indefinite form of punishment worse than prison.

Europeans realized long before America that if you kept a man down indefinitely like that, you could not grow and scale your free market economies because they can never contribute to your local economies directly. Having to purchase and take care of people who will never and cannot give you 100% effort in their work, will eventually become stagnant. That suppresses purchasing power. If you are running an empire, you need tax revenue from contributors. Slaves in a hen house cannot not pay taxes.

If you are running an Autonomy/Authoritarian style government with no free market, then slave labor works alot better obviously. Money has no real meaning only your own local resources. You can build pyramids all day long. Since no one likes tyrants and that is considered a crime against mankind (WW1 the best latest example), tyranny over another man is unethical as well (Slavery).

Post: #86

Quote: "This is wrong. This should not be said. It's not appropriate in any world but not a post-Sterling world."

How many worlds are there?

Post: #87

(09-08-2014 04:39 PM)scorpion Wrote:  "He's not perfect," meaning he probably doesn't culturally mesh with the rest of the roster, most of whom are American born blacks.

Fitting in as a teammate has a lot to do with playing basketball.

That is the only explanation that makes sense. Why else would he specifically mention African? If it was a race thing he'd say black (which again, obviously makes no sense as well given that the rest of the roster is black too).

The Hawks are fairly diverse. They have: a Dominican, Mexican, Macedonian, Swiss, Cape Verdean, German, two white Americans, and the rest are black Americans.

The "He's an African" thing is just totally unnecessary. There was no rational reason to bring it up. Dude went to Duke, played in Chicago for years alongside black Americans. That argument holds no weight.

Post: #88

(09-08-2014 04:39 PM)scorpion Wrote:  "He's not perfect," meaning he probably doesn't culturally mesh with the rest of the roster, most of whom are American born blacks.

You're desperately grasping at straws, hoping that somehow you can make an incredibly weird statement appear to be innocuous so that it fits your world view.

There isn't any evidence on your side to draw such a conclusion.

Deng played high school ball in Jersey for four years, one year at Duke, and he's been in the NBA for 10 years.

That's at least 15 years of his life playing basketball with Black Americans.

This isn't about victim googles.

You're using probably and trying to connect dots that support your perspective and I'm stating factual information.

Post: #89

(09-08-2014 04:59 PM)Big Country Wrote:  

(09-08-2014 04:39 PM)scorpion Wrote:  "He's not perfect," meaning he probably doesn't culturally mesh with the rest of the roster, most of whom are American born blacks.

Fitting in as a teammate has a lot to do with playing basketball.

That is the only explanation that makes sense. Why else would he specifically mention African? If it was a race thing he'd say black (which again, obviously makes no sense as well given that the rest of the roster is black too).

The Hawks are fairly diverse. They have: a Dominican, Mexican, Macedonian, Swiss, Cape Verdean, German, two white Americans, and the rest are black Americans.

The "He's an African" thing is just totally unnecessary. There was no rational reason to bring it up. Dude went to Duke, played in Chicago for years alongside black Americans. That argument holds no weight.

What makes sense then? What is your theory? The GM personally hates Africans for some reason? Do you really think that's the case, or that there is any underlying racist motivation whatsoever?

Occam's Razor, folks. This trend of going to tortured lengths to expose racist motives for defensible actions (Ferguson) or in this case, a poorly-worded statement has got to stop. It shouldn't be defended in the mainstream media, much less by anyone who calls himself a red pill man who prioritizes truth over feelings.

Post: #90

I have to agree with Sonsowey. I still cannot quite figure out what he meant by that "Still has some African in him". That could mean so many fucking things. He even prefaced that by saying not in a bad way. Like is he no-nonsense? Is he kind to guests? Is he aggressive with a high motor like Hakeem Olajuwon? Does he play hard nose basketball? Does he fight too much like Sudanese do?

Even after Scorpion and Jariel's ideas, I am not convinced either way as to what he really meant by that. Context is important here. Unless this Danny person told other NBA people what he meant but the article writer himself does not know what that context was.

Post: #91

(09-08-2014 05:07 PM)scorpion Wrote:  What makes sense then? What is your theory? The GM personally hates Africans for some reason? Do you really think that's the case, or that there is any underlying racist motivation whatsoever?

Occam's Razor, folks. This trend of going to tortured lengths to expose racist motives for defensible actions (Ferguson) or in this case, a poorly-worded statement has got to stop. It shouldn't be defended in the mainstream media, much less by anyone who calls himself a red pill man who prioritizes truth over feelings.

I am only saying your rationale was wrong. I can't think of any reason he said it.

Post: #92

(09-08-2014 05:03 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(09-08-2014 04:39 PM)scorpion Wrote:  "He's not perfect," meaning he probably doesn't culturally mesh with the rest of the roster, most of whom are American born blacks.

You're desperately grasping at straws, hoping that somehow you can make an incredibly weird statement appear to be innocuous so that it fits your world view.

You say this with a straight face when you're well on your way to becoming the RVF's version of Al Sharpton, finding racism under ever rock and pebble you overturn?

You seriously need to lay off your consumption of mainstream media. You've clearly been brainwashed with a black victim complex and as a result are seeing black victimization everywhere, to the extent that a white man saying an African born man "has African in him" is evidence of racism. Seriously, get a grip. You're quickly becoming a caricature of the oversensitive black man seeing a racist boogeyman around every corner.

Post: #93

(09-08-2014 05:10 PM)Big Country Wrote:  

(09-08-2014 05:07 PM)scorpion Wrote:  What makes sense then? What is your theory? The GM personally hates Africans for some reason? Do you really think that's the case, or that there is any underlying racist motivation whatsoever?

Occam's Razor, folks. This trend of going to tortured lengths to expose racist motives for defensible actions (Ferguson) or in this case, a poorly-worded statement has got to stop. It shouldn't be defended in the mainstream media, much less by anyone who calls himself a red pill man who prioritizes truth over feelings.

I am only saying your rationale was wrong. I can't think of any reason he said it.

So you have no argument whatsoever. Thanks for your contribution. Very convincing stuff.

Post: #94

The only part of this thread I find suspicious is this 'he's still got some African in him' statement. I actually knew Luol before he made it and played against his older brother. When I watch interviews of him, he sounds totally American now. British accent long gone.

"He's still got some African in him". Does Ferry mean that he often speaks Dinka on the phone to his siblings and fam when receiving international call from South Sudan when they both go out for pizza? Or he's partial to some pounded yam and egusi soup during Sunday night football instead of wing stops?

Post: #95

(09-08-2014 05:14 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(09-08-2014 05:10 PM)Big Country Wrote:  

(09-08-2014 05:07 PM)scorpion Wrote:  What makes sense then? What is your theory? The GM personally hates Africans for some reason? Do you really think that's the case, or that there is any underlying racist motivation whatsoever?

Occam's Razor, folks. This trend of going to tortured lengths to expose racist motives for defensible actions (Ferguson) or in this case, a poorly-worded statement has got to stop. It shouldn't be defended in the mainstream media, much less by anyone who calls himself a red pill man who prioritizes truth over feelings.

I am only saying your rationale was wrong. I can't think of any reason he said it.

So you have no argument whatsoever. Thanks for your contribution. Very convincing stuff.

You had no idea what the make up of the Hawks even was. You just threw out some bullshit about them being all black Americans and that his being an ethnic African would somehow decrease his ability to coexist on the team.

Your argument is invalid. That's all.

Danny Ferry grew up playing basketball, he was, as all semi-talented white players after Larry Bird hailed as the great-white-hope. He didn't really pan out as a professional after a stellar collegiate career. He then moved into the management side of the sport. Maybe he resents the black players their success?

I too, can throw out bullshit.

Post: #96

Yeah, I know if I hated black people I would definitely pursue a career in professional basketball management. That would be sure to keep me away from "those people".

Oh, no. Actually, that would be the dumbest fucking thing imaginable. Try again.

Post: #97

(09-08-2014 05:26 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Yeah, I know if I hated black people I would definitely pursue a career in professional basketball management. That would be sure to keep me away from "those people".

Oh, no. Actually, that would be the dumbest fucking thing imaginable. Try again.

I'm guessing you didn't read the last line of my post?

I'm not saying he is a racist, far from it. I think, like all people, he made a simple, stupid mistake. That mistake happened to have been an untimely one so it is now magnified and put under the lens.

Post: #98

(09-08-2014 05:22 PM)Big Country Wrote:  Your argument is invalid. That's all.

When you disagree with someone and then they resort to personal attacks, gifs, and memes to try to inflame the situation, you know the deal.

You can be a great poster and not be right on every issue.

Post: #99

Yes, he made a mistake - he misspoke when trying to articulate his thoughts.

There is zero evidence for any kind of racist intent behind what he said, so why are we inventing one?

I'm imagining a future where people get set up and secretly recorded making innocuous statements that sound racist out of context.

*After trying on a white suit and a black one*

Sales associate: "Which do you prefer, sir?"
Extreme Racist: "I didn't really like the black one."

THE KING OF RACISTS HAS REVEALED HIMSELF!!! ALERT THE PRESS!!!

*Edited clip later played on CNN*

Restaurant manager: "Why did you want a new waiter sir?"
Extreme Racist: "I didn't really like the black one."

This is literally where we're going. We're degenerating into "gotcha" racism rather than anything remotely resembling real racism. It's fucking stupid. Why do we have to go out of our way to find racism everywhere? Does anyone actually benefit from this, black or white? All this does is stir up racial resentment.

Post: #100

Let's take it down a notch fellas. It's not useful for emotions to get involved.