Post: #1

Fairly often, you meet a girl with a slutty past. Maybe you coaxed it out of her, maybe there are strong tells, or someone spilled the beans on her. That part is not in doubt.

But with a lot of these girls nowadays, their initial sexual contact with strangers is ALWAYS done while drunk or on drugs. These girls have NEVER had a first kiss let alone a fuck with a stranger while sober. At most, they've had a first kiss sober with a guy they sort of knew or had seen several times. They may even wince a little at your touch, and feel uncomfortable. Northern European - British and Scandinavian chicks are especially susceptible to this - cultures where people binge drink to socialize. If you're trying to swoop in as a stranger, and she's sober, she may not give you enough time i.e. meetups to let you bang.

On dates with these chicks, I get stuck in this rut. I don't usually get them drunk enough to have them overcome their own neuroses about physical intimacy. And then because they have trouble building a connection quickly when sober, she'll be flaky about meeting up again. She'll feel indifferent to you. Trying to coax any romantic connection from a girl like this is like trying to get water out of a rock.

If you do get her drunk and bang, she may also feel guilt or regret over it and not talk to you again. She may not. I have had both happen. It can be hard to predict her reaction - if you do want to avoid that, having her sleep over or just spend more time together post-bang seems like a good idea.

The difference between this kind of girl and a genuinely prude or inexperienced girl is that a prude is usually willing to continue seeing you in the absence of sexual intimacy. (I don't mean to derogate girls who are 'prudes,' just using it as shorthand.) The frigid slut on the other hand wants the dick and has had the dick before, but 'feels weird' about you but lacks the patience of the prude to become comfortable with letting you bang. The frigid slut has very little dick attention span, while the prude, hopefully, has the opposite. It's not that the frigid slut is always getting dick - just that she is easily put off by a little physical discomfort, because she always has the avenue of eventually banging an orbiter or a guy while hammered. The prude has declared that off limits, so if she wants sex, she will try and get some commitment and investment before that happens, even if it requires some awkwardness - she has no choice, absent spinsterdom. A prude will not balk at say, holding hands or having your arm around her, while a frigid slut may.

Also, some girls are not frigid sluts per se, but will act like one if they've been freshly fucked and so will be indifferent to you - if a girl is very blase towards you on a date for no good reason, and she's otherwise on a par with the girls you otherwise bang, there's a good chance she just got banged within the last week or two so she has no hunger for men. Even my fellow female office workers shower me with more attention when they haven't been getting banged, even if they would never bang me.

How do you deal with this?

One solution, credit to DVY: sushi dinner date. She'll come on an empty stomach, and a couple sakes will get her going. I have this bar I go to that serves sake, and I frequently order it for myself, but I notice a lot of girls don't like sake, so you, may want to ask her beforehand if she likes it.

I'm kicking myself over a date with a chick like this last night. Still might have a chance with her, but I doubt it. Total sex freak but oddly distant and frigid while sober, and we didn't drink enough to make a difference. She even told me she gets frisky when drunk, lol. This girl was not British, but both me and a wing of mine experienced this with British girls very recently too - and my girl was frigid despite hooking up with me previously! That was too weird for me and I lost interest.

Post: #2

You are the puppet master, you gotta bring out the emotions within her.

Obviously, you're not looking for some meta-forum analysis so I will share my own practical ways of doing this.

At the risk of being game-speak, you gotta pump their buying temperature.

You gotta bring out the slut in them and frame in it a way that is normal and expected.

The frigid slut is cold for various reasons:

a) previous negative experiences leading to her being judged creating a self-awareness of her sluttyness. Therefore you have to work for it more

b) Social stigma of being a slut, common but to a less extent mostly.

c) She wants you to earn her pussy. Her promiscuity usually leads her to believe that she can 'do better' and therefore creates more 'checkpoints' to her pants.


How I overcome this:

a) Always assume she is into me. Cocky funny is ingrained into my personality and the banter combined with body language and sexual touching (framed as normal) will automatically make escalation easy.

b) Push/pull. More pull than push. I will let her know that she has to work for me and I am the examiner and she is the student. Frigid or not, you gotta challenge her with your own frigidness. This is simple game.

c) Low investment over a long period of time rather than high investment over a short period of time. When I meet girls, after a while I categorize them. Either flash game or sizzle game. Flash game is same night 'sweep off their feet'. Sizzle game is more 'planting a seed that I am attractive' keep in touch over a longer period of time until the coldness melts away.

d) With the frigid ones, you gotta pull when sober if you want a repeat client. Drunk pulls will put you into the category with everyone else. I consider myself a good fuck and the ones who are sober are the ones who are knocking on my door when they are drunk. The drunk ones don't remember and the same stimulus is not there.


There are just thoughts off the top of my head, I can go into further details. I understand the challenge so I won't tell you to move on or that you are wasting time; I respect that it may be attractive, I consider myself similar when it comes to frigid girls.

As for the girl who you had a date with, just make her jealous. The fastest way to get under their skin is to make them jealous or to challenge. She is frigid because she has been validated by these guys so play her at her game and beat her. Immature but sometimes you want it enough to do it.

I don't care if she has banged other guys, I am banging other girls constantly. It would be hypocritical to judge her off that; once you communicate this (never verbally), the seed is planted and everything materializes.

Post: #3

Yeah, I ended up with a few of these girls during my university days. Complete and utter sluts with drink in them but when you're texting or talking to them sober they are as loose as a nun in a church. Extremely inhibited.

I had a lot of situations where the sex was free-flowing and I wanted a FWB out of it. "not unless we're dating" or "I'm not sure" were the excuses. I ejected from the interaction and didn't bother with them anymore.

What did I see over the next two years? The same girls being pulled for ONS from bars and clubs.

I just chalked it up to them being either A) Emotionally retarded or B) Stupid.

Post: #4

Drink enough for the both of you. Problem solved.

Post: #5

^ Yeah.

You can't fix these girls. Definitely never date one it would be a nightmare.

This is what's wrong with living in SoCal and America you have to play mind games with yourself and find trapdoors of success.

I don't see how you can enjoy
multiple dates with a frigid sober girl out-colding her it sounds so torturous. Are you getting sober frigid bangs on the first date? If so congrats I don't have that skillset.

If she isn't down to meet and drink alot pass.

Too much work when sober I deal with this all the time. Many SoCal chicks are like this in my experience.

Girls that are warm, flirty, and friendly sober off the bat are rare (and not the attention whore social butterfly give every guy in the room a close rack hug type).

Are these cold sober girls worth the repeat bangs you get? Do their personalities lighten up?

Post: #6

"c) Low investment over a long period of time rather than high investment over a short period of time. "

I think this is the only one of yours that may work, but usually you don't have this option unless you know her from social circle. A and B are standard game fare that I readily use - effective usually, but not enough so for this group.

Yeah girls in SoCal and America in general have a little bit of this, but occasionally it's very extreme - like a girl being weird about kissing despite having two drinks and being kino-ed all night. And having a slutty past of course. In my limited experience, it seems a lot more pronounced among British chicks.

Travesty, in all honesty, I'd probably just make a more concerted attempt to get us both drunk on a future date. Bottomless mimosa brunch is the way to go, followed by drinks at your house. Do it near your place. I just don't like the idea of getting myself and a girl drunk to hook up, but when the standard tack failed initially, I'm down to redouble my efforts.

The chick I had a date with last night, was pretty hot and a freaky unicorn, so my tolerance for bullshit from her was considerably higher than normal. A little awkwardness upfront I can deal with, if the payoff is good.

Yeah, I don't think an 'out-colding' even works. A jealousy plot line might, but if she was really ambivalent, it wouldn't work either - best to drop jealousy bait subtly and see if she responds. You could try also connecting with her on some non-sexual common interest, as a bridge to a future date where you get drunk - and the common interest bond raises the odds of her continuing to see you after. Personally though, having deep conversations with girls without intermittent kissing and such doesn't get me very far.

The funny thing is, I met two girls this past weekend, one like this, and one sort of the opposite. One was British and frigid - although unclear if she was slutty or not. The other one was not British, and very passive. My wing got the Brit, and I the other, and I fucked mine, but the entire time she was totally passive, completely indifferent to whether I fucked her or not - and she was sober. There was little resistance, but no positive action on her part either.

Post: #7

You need to know how to push the buttons Basil. I've met girls like this before sometimes I'll say something like "I've seen 4 people fall off a wheelchair on the same street" or something else along those lines. You never know what will open them up until you get good at it.

Post: #8

@ el mechanico, lol. Yeah with these girls you also see them periodically flashing a bright warm smile out of nowhere, after you say something funny, and then go back to being frigid or aloof just as quickly. It's like a wave that goes away as quickly as it came. Like as soon as there's a lull in conversation, you're back to square one. With less frigid girls, you're warming them up over time, and her comfort with you, if not her arousal as well, is steadily going upwards.

Post: #9

I really, really hate to admit to this, but since it worked, I'll spill.

I had gotten into heavy sex talk with one such woman but I could sense that I wouldn't be able to close the deal. During the sex talk she expressed fascination with some porn mags I told her about. We had a date one Saturday and before we went out for the evening (to a play, no less) she asked to see the mags. So I showed her.

Seeing all those naked women really ratted her. She kept asking about women's bodies, sex acts, etc. She didn't view much porn and couldn't get it off her mind. During intermission she asked to leave. Why? "I want to sleep with you, Days of Broken Arrows." She was that riled up.

I can't guarantee this will work, but a little visual stimulus was all it took to bring this woman's inner slut out.

The reason this is embarrassing is that I later read that the loser who shot Governor George Wallace in 1972, Arthur Bremer, used to show girls porn on dates. It was a failed move, and made the girls run screaming away.

What I describe is different. I'd already built rapport, it had already gotten verbally sexual, and it had gotten to the point where she was asking about men's porn habits, mine included. So showing her this stuff worked in context.

If you plan on trying this, you have to have the prelude/build-up and the woman has to be an eager audience. You can't spring this on her out of the blue. But one thing I've learned is that some women are curious about porn but don't have the nerve to seek it out and rely on men to lead them in that direction. So if you can direct the convo to where she's asking you about this stuff, you've flipped this script (as I did), become the sexual leader, and this will probably work.

Post: #10

What about taking these girls out, escalating and banging them without using alcohol?

Maybe you don't get it on the first night, or the second.. But getting a bang without having to use drinks and breaking down LMR naturally is a most natural and satisfying experience.

Just another perspective. I'm not hating on using drinks as I've done that before as well and is it a method for quicker success. But my sober date bangs are much more memorable and satisfying to me, personally.

Post: #11

DOBA that is a great tip. Funny thing is our conversation (my unicorn date last night) was very sexual, yet she was still frigid - go figure. No guarantees, but imagery could have tipped the scale. Curious as to a smooth way to do this - maybe pretend a porn photo is one of your own. Find a sexual experience that she lusts for and dig up a pic in the bathroom and claim it as your own. Describe it in a nonchalant way - don't offer it up as something you could do with her, just something that you have enjoyed before, or are considering doing in the future.

Nascimento, going sober can work with conventional prudes. Maybe it's just my pride at stake, but I have trouble stomaching investing lots of time when I know a girl has been railed quickly in the past. Also, the odds of getting friendzoned or just ditched by a frigid while sober hoe after date 1, 2 or 3 are much higher. If you could get optimal results without alcohol I'd do it in a hearbeat, and I think it can work with girls who are very sexually comfortable sober, but these aren't those girls, if I understand them correctly.

Another thing about these girls is that they are indecisive. They need someone to make a decision for them. When they're sober, they keep questioning whether they should sleep with you or not, and they can change on a whim and decide you aren't "right" for her. The slightest thing can give them a bad feeling and turn her away. You piss away time and money for a decision that she makes on the slightest of whims, and often not in your favor. She gets in that negative mentality that chicks in online dating get into, that if only they wait then they'll get a clear answer from God or some shit... Until they get bored of your ass for the latest shiniest new thing.

Post: #12

1. You do not want any kind of relationship with a girl like this, not even a fuckbuddy arrangement. Many times it is impossible to do this even if you want one. Their minds operate in a damaged way, they are unable to bond or emotionally connect with pretty much any man, no matter how alpha, and she has dick overdose. This means that she has such an abundance of dick that no particular dick is more special in her eyes than another. If she is uncomfortable, she just rationalizes to herself "oh well, I'm uncomfortable, fuck this guy, I'll just get some dick this weekend at the club".

2. She is R-selected, doesn't want any kind of relationship, and therefore continuity in the relationship should not even be on your mind. Essentially, you either fuck her on the first date or you lose her. Even if you fuck her you will lose her, so you might aswell fuck her and lose her than not fuck her and lose her. I repeat, fuck at all costs, do whatever you have to do. A second date is off limits, not only for you, but in her mind aswell.

3. Get her drunk. If she doesn't drink, then she needs to get the fuck out. If you have to, tell her to drink or to fuck off, you lose nothing. If she doesn't drink you get nothing.

4. In very rare occasions, there can be a connection with one of these girls, if there is some kind of unexplained chemistry that you didn't try to manufacture. Don't rely on this, it won't fucking happen to you, it has only happened once in my entire gaming career. Here's what happened, and a good representation of how fucked up these girls are. She told herself that we had connected, but she was so fucked up that she saw sex as something you must only do without any connection with strangers, and only one time. She literally told me this, and she later told me that she would not fuck me because "she can always go to the club to fuck a guy, we have a connection so we shouldn't fuck". She was DTF on the first half of the first date and then shut down on me when we started going into deep rapport.
Naturally, I told her to fuck off. She later stalked me for 2 months stating how much she regretted her "sex attitude".

Fucked up situation, especially if you want anything more than a wet cunt. At least there are places in the world you can go where this is far from the norm.

Post: #13

"she saw sex as something you must only do without any connection with strangers, and only one time. She literally told me this, and she later told me that she would not fuck me because "she can always go to the club to fuck a guy, we have a connection so we shouldn't fuck"."

This is increasingly the norm, at least among the girls I game. It's VERY common to hear girls say nowadays "the guys that I have sex with quickly are the guys I DON'T like - when I like him I want to make it special and have us wait."

I think these girls, though 95% romantically fucked in the head, can still bond, but it takes a lot more, and like you and I have said, the chances are slim that you'll make it to that point anyway. Maybe it happens when they convince themselves that you are what their life needs based on some preimagined life script.

This is also a very Anglo phenomenon. I've met and banged a few slutty Latinas, and their ability to show affection and interest in a man didn't seem impaired at all.

Post: #14

(09-05-2014 04:07 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  "she saw sex as something you must only do without any connection with strangers, and only one time. She literally told me this, and she later told me that she would not fuck me because "she can always go to the club to fuck a guy, we have a connection so we shouldn't fuck"."

This is increasingly the norm, at least among the girls I game. It's VERY common to hear girls say nowadays "the guys that I have sex with quickly are the guys I DON'T like - when I like him I want to make it special and have us wait."

I think these girls, though 95% romantically fucked in the head, can still bond, but it takes a lot more, and like you and I have said, the chances are slim that you'll make it to that point anyway. Maybe it happens when they convince themselves that you are what their life needs based on some preimagined life script.

This is also a very Anglo phenomenon. I've met and banged a few slutty Latinas, and their ability to show affection and interest in a man didn't seem impaired at all.

She doesn't want to wait, it is just a way of resolving cognitive dissonance. She goes to the date with the motivation of fucking, then sees that she really likes you, but feminism has brainwashed her that relationships are off the table. She says "ok, I'd better not fuck him because I really like him, I could always fuck a guy this weekend at the club."She has no intention of fucking you, she just feels entitled to your attention with the intention of giving nothing back. You tell her you are not interested, walk away, and she thinks "I really should have fucked him".

Whatever the case, this is an atypical scenario. The most normal thing is that she either fucks you and disappears, or she doesn't fuck you due to ASD and disappears. As you can see, it doesn't take a genius to work out that relationships are off the table unless you travel somewhere else, just forget about that completely.

This is why so many men have trouble understanding game. We are not gaming women, we are gaming mentally diseased women. This is why we must know so much about psychology, it is not a normal mind we are dealing with, but a deeply disturbed one.

Here is your game plan when gaming in an R-selected society: Don't focus on connection, just get the girl drunk on the first date, and pull every single maneuver and ultimatum you can think of to fuck the girl. You will never see her again.

Don't get into the "can sluts bond?" mental masturbation. I spent years with that weather in my head. These women are deeply damaged, very deeply damaged. If you go into a date with the objective of "bonding", you are royally fucked. You will get stabbed and spat on so many times it won't even be funny. Just forget about it, only one-off sex is on the table with this kind of mindset.

If you want any kind of connection, find a way of travelling to K-selected societies, such as Ukraine or Russia, where women actually care about connection and relationships. I discontinued my trips to R-selected Scandinavia and Central Europe when one-off hatefucks with deeply disturbed whores got old.

Post: #15

"feminism has brainwashed her that relationships are off the table. She says "ok, I'd better not fuck him because I really like him, I could always fuck a guy this weekend at the club.""

I agree with everything you said, and you said it well, except this part.

It's not feminism that's making her say this and act this way. It's this weird juxtaposition of prudish dating rules and being slutty on nights out. Every girl says they don't fuck on the first date, but plenty of those have had one night stands and same night lays, and will continue to.

What she's really saying is "I need to hide that I'm a slut who sleeps quickly with men when I meet a man who is " relationship material." If I cop to being a slut, he will not like me." Beta bucks, alpha fucks. They get this weird mindset that NOT fucking a man makes him more special than fucking him would. Of course, a monkey in a suit is still a monkey.

Post: #16

(09-05-2014 04:54 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  "feminism has brainwashed her that relationships are off the table. She says "ok, I'd better not fuck him because I really like him, I could always fuck a guy this weekend at the club.""

I agree with everything you said, and you said it well, except this part.

It's not feminism that's making her say this and act this way. It's this weird juxtaposition of prudish dating rules and being slutty on nights out. Every girl says they don't fuck on the first date, but plenty of those have had one night stands and same night lays, and will continue to.

What she's really saying is "I need to hide that I'm a slut who sleeps quickly with men when I meet a man who is " relationship material." If I cop to being a slut, he will not like me." Beta bucks, alpha fucks. They get this weird mindset that NOT fucking a man makes him more special than fucking him would. Of course, a monkey in a suit is still a monkey.

I disagree. What you have said is only applicable to girls over 30, when their outlook on dating changes radically.

I'm sure you have heard the saying on this board "The carousel stops for no man." It doesn't. Go out today and ask young women whether they want a relationship. The answer will be a unanimous no. I am not even joking, go ahead and do this, you will be surprised. This happens for a variety of reasons that I won't go into. I believe I have explained them somewhere on this forum if you go through my posts. The "beta relationship" that some young girls have also has an explanation that I have included somewhere, and most girls are even pulling out of that. My estimates are that more than 75% of young women are long-term singles by choice.

Even an alpha will have trouble securing the commitment of a young Western girl he has met through cold approach. It happens, in my calculations, after 25% of bangs. Even Roosh, if you read Poosy Paradise, mentions how it is actually often the women who disregard him when he wants a relationship after a bang.

Some players don't realize this because they don't try to pursue relationships with women, so they don't see these patterns.

Post: #17

Fuck them.
double entendre

Post: #18

^ OMIT is on the money.

Over the last year I have had 4 attractive young girls where we had chemistry, good sex, good conversation, and similar interests. Roping them into a relationship seems extremely difficult. I imagine I would need uncanny good looks or social status to get them to want a relationship out of me.

Chicks 23+ often have BFs but will still give me their number and want to get a drink under the premise of being "friends" lol.

If I was their BF and she told
me that she'd be dead to me.

Post: #19

(09-05-2014 03:18 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  DOBA that is a great tip. Funny thing is our conversation (my unicorn date last night) was very sexual, yet she was still frigid - go figure. No guarantees, but imagery could have tipped the scale.

Would she have remained a prude if she saw other men and women kissing, fondling each other in a sexual way?

Night game has those advantages. Women are herd animals so seeing one chick getting her hair pulled back and the guy kissing her neck would evoke an internal response from another woman.

I've seen it happen.

Post: #20

(09-05-2014 04:07 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  "she saw sex as something you must only do without any connection with strangers, and only one time. She literally told me this, and she later told me that she would not fuck me because "she can always go to the club to fuck a guy, we have a connection so we shouldn't fuck"."

This is increasingly the norm, at least among the girls I game. It's VERY common to hear girls say nowadays "the guys that I have sex with quickly are the guys I DON'T like - when I like him I want to make it special and have us wait."

I think these girls, though 95% romantically fucked in the head, can still bond, but it takes a lot more, and like you and I have said, the chances are slim that you'll make it to that point anyway. Maybe it happens when they convince themselves that you are what their life needs based on some preimagined life script.

This is also a very Anglo phenomenon. I've met and banged a few slutty Latinas, and their ability to show affection and interest in a man didn't seem impaired at all.

Girl I met at the club: "You're too nice. I like assholes - actually I like to fuck them and then get rid of them."

[I hadn't even said anything remotely nice. In fact, I had just refused to buy her a drink by joking that I was homeless.]

Post: #21

Only two ways have really worked for me

1) Plow as many drinks as possible into them on an empty stomach and smash (most sucessful)
2) Bounce her to 3-4 spots and gradually up the physical contact (works better when drunk, but will work sober too if you just "seize the passion").

What has worked off/on (mostly off)
3) The sizzle- keep them on a slow-roll. Honestly, this works like garbage here in LA. She'll just meet another 5-6 guys in the next month and youll be forgotten. You have to be very memorable or she has to be constantly busy with work/school and have zero sexable guys in her life.

Post: #22

Do you guys have any tips for upping her alcohol intake while reducing your own? It gets expensive quickly, not to mention the health effects.

Sushi and sake is a good route, as is bottomless mimosa brunch.

Post: #23

(09-06-2014 09:43 AM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Do you guys have any tips for upping her alcohol intake while reducing your own? It gets expensive quickly, not to mention the health effects.

Sushi and sake is a good route, as is bottomless mimosa brunch.

Find a place with cheap drinks. Go there first and have one drink as a "starting off" point. Doesn't matter how divey it is.

Find a dinner place that let's you bring your own wine. I'm taking a bottle of wine tonight to a sushi place that has no corkage. I will get one bottle of sake there too, that's a bottle of wine and a little carafe of sake for 2 people. That's a good amount if she's not a fatty.

Have a "special" drink at your place. I make caiprinhais (spelling?) at home. All you need is sugar, limes and cachaca. The sugar rushes the alcohol into your system, so you get drunk faster. Also most girls have not had it before as few bars make it and most haven't been to Brazil.

Shots. Anytime anywhere. Not a girl shot, but a manly one. Don't order whiskey but tequila every girl will succumb to and they always say "oh no not tequila!" Yeah sure tell me more, they all love that shit. Other shots can be fireball (see below) or maybe Black Russian shots. Make a bet that who cares who will lose, just make it so you choose the drink at the result.

Every girl loves Fireball. Find it keep it at your house or take a shot out. Easy and tastes like cinnamon. Can justify that it is not full strength.

Just tread carefully, know when to stop. Some girls are seasoned drinkers, others are not and will start vomiting and then it all goes to hell.

Post: #24

^ I can drink a ton.

Girls try to keep up but never can.

That's my solution.

DVY's #1 is where it's at if sex is the goal.

Lol notice all the LA, ex-LA guys specializing in this question. We deal with it the most often.

Papermache girls until they get a heavy buzz.

Post: #25

Go to bar. Tell bartender that you are on a date, but put less alcohol for you. Tell him to pour light for you, or non-alcoholic.

I usually drink bitters and soda. (ups to dude3737) Girls have zero idea what it is and its bitter, so they assume its highly alcoholic.

Edit- tequila is also a good shot to get for woman. Most girls love tequila. No idea why tbh.