Post: #1

Hi guys, I need some help. But first a little intro about myself. I've been going out for about 2 years semi consistently. My style of game is a little mix between Krauser's (teasing, frame, calibration) and Jon Matrix's (chill, frame, conversation). I've currently no problem stopping, engaging in conversation, and getting a number. But my sticking point seems to be getting the numbers to respond at all, or even if they do, they stop replying when I ask them out, and when I reping they'll reply until I ask them out again.

I wouldn't say my calibration is that much off. After a lot of reflection and talking to my wings (who are getting better results than I am), we figured that my problem is that I don't create enough comfort and rapport in set (Krauser differentiates the two). I am a low energy introverted guy, but in set I am comfortable talking more at least until she opens up.

I use a lot of mid-risk teases in set (which according to my wings who have stood beside me say that it's not at all miscalibrated). The problem I think is that, no matter how much she enjoys the conversation or is attracted, the moment I leave and the bubble bursts, she goes back to reality in a "what just happened?" sense and then doesn't have any strong motivation to reply or meet me anymore. It's hard to explain or show how my approaches are like exactly but all I can say it's no flair, Jon Matrix low energy chill style, with Krauser's conversational wit (sans the rapport and comfort).

Anyway, any tips on how to improve rapport game in approaches? And build comfort too, or at least make her want to get to know me more even if she doesn't immediately jump at the chance of a day 2?

Post: #2

how long are you pushing interactions? I had the same problem at one point and realised i was getting in and out too quick.

Post: #3

five to ten minutes. I usually spike the conversations until I see the "anime eyes" or some signal she is enjoying herself, then I'll suggest we grab a drink to continue this sometime. Almost never face any hesitation. Then I'll talk a bit more, and then leave.

There are the occasional 1-minute closes, but those are expected not to reply. But on average they seem long enough to get to the hook point where she stays and chats, seems at least a maybe if not a yes, but then don't reply. I'm from Singapore, maybe the girls here tend to do that, but I don't want to use it as an excuse. Especially since my wings do get enough results from daygame to know it's a problem specific to me.

Post: #4

you should be pushing for an insta date. if you are not interesting enough to get them to come out after then be interested enough to get them to go to an insta date right away. if she isn't interested then you are getting polite rejections via getting digits. "make the house say no". your text game could be weak too. go learn from heartiste

Post: #5

I always believe that guys are struggling in the areas they don't talk about and you said nothing about your txt game, so I believe that's where your sticking point is. It used to be mine until I read the txt book from the guys at Pickup Podcast.

Post: #6

(09-01-2014 02:50 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  I always believe that guys are struggling in the areas they don't talk about and you said nothing about your txt game, so I believe that's where your sticking point is. It used to be mine until I read the txt book from the guys at Pickup Podcast.

Could you elaborate on this? In summary, what kind of text game do they advocate?

Post: #7

OP, whats your conversion rate? I used to be in the exact situation to the point that I dont collect a digit anymore. Its like you can talk about everything and make her laugh, but the moment you ask for date she goes dead on you. I used to have a 5% number to bang conversion rate. Now I push for the instant date ASAP if its daygame.

(09-01-2014 02:38 AM)calihunter Wrote:  you should be pushing for an insta date. if you are not interesting enough to get them to come out after then be interested enough to get them to go to an insta date right away. if she isn't interested then you are getting polite rejections via getting digits. "make the house say no". your text game could be weak too. go learn from heartiste

I looked heartise up and down for some text game guides but couldnt find much, just some texting contest examples. Can you guys point me to a few good text guides out there other than Roosh's standard guide?

Post: #8

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-US&ie...phone+game

Post: #9

Attraction, connection and comfort is what you are looking for.

Attraction is just a door to get to connection, a girl becomes attracted to men all the time, it is necessary just to get her attention and not have her walk off. What will make her want to come out on a date is emotional connection. Comfort is just the cloud surrounding everything. If she perceives you as a stranger then that will permeate the interaction.

As others have said, prolong interactions and focus on creating everything mentioned above. Go for instant dates. As Mystery used to say, the minimum time before getting a number should be 45 minutes, and although you can get dates without, we are talking maybe a 50% jump in probability. After 45 minutes you're buddies, you know each other, it would almost be awkward not to ask for the number. 10 minutes and you're still a stranger, that will only go down if the girl is both open-minded, horny and attracted to you. You understand how fickle the motivation would be in those cases, contributing to the flake rate.

Don't focus on text game. Text game is don't-fuck-up game. The girl's decision to go out with you or not will be made on the basis of your performance in-set.

Post: #10

I get the sense that you are not creating any sort of emotional connection with these girls.

I get the sense that you are not identifying shared interests, passions and things in common.

I get the sense that you are not making these girls laugh.

I get the sense that you are somewhat robotic.

I get the sense that your text game is also robotic and unemotional.

Do more to identify their passions, do more to stir these passions, connect to these passions, reference them in your texts, suggest dates that include them.

Just my initial sense... I could be wrong..

Post: #11

(09-01-2014 01:18 AM)JetBlack Wrote:  The problem I think is that, no matter how much she enjoys the conversation or is attracted, the moment I leave and the bubble bursts, she goes back to reality in a "what just happened?" sense and then doesn't have any strong motivation to reply or meet me anymore.

The problem is that you game game game but girls don't contribute anything on their own. They enjoy the thrills you give them for sure but the thing with emotions is that they disappear and subside if they don't lead to making a tangible move or decision on girls' part. And that is the key here. To get them to put some effort to game you. You have to add "1 step backwards" to your "2 steps forward" to give girls space to game you.

Game a bit and then take a step back / push away / take away. The best moment to do it is during the high points or when a girl is very focused on you.

For example...

- When you break the ice and she's shocked or just very surprised you can take a step back and say "oh sorry i didn't mean to scare you, if you're frightened just tell me to leave, it's ok i won't be bothered". You don't actually leave or give her a choice for real, you just say it.

- When she's quiet and attentive you can say "hey you're so calm and quiet, look, I can leave if I make you nervous, it's fine". It should trigger a least a bit of fear of loss.

- When she's very happy/bubbly and clearly enjoys talking to you then you can say "whoa you're having too much fun here, it's unfair, i should leave before you explode with happiness" or "you're soo much fun and I know nothing about you, I don't know if I can trust you, I mean you will probably not answer my phone call". Again, you take away your fun, she should want to get it back.

- When you sense she's on he fence about you then you can say "hey if you're not feeling it then just tell me straight up to go to hell and never come back, I don't want to waste our time for unnecessary pleasantries, I only care about mutual connection, to me it's horrible feeling to just tolerate someone out of politeness". There's nothing worse than forcing someone to talk to you and this is good way to show her that you care about real connection, which is like a subtle diss to her that she's not enough for you again, taking away validation.

- When convo is 50/50 use pauses when she finishes her sentences. That pressure often times gets people to talk more to fill the void. Even if it's a bit forced it's still a real effort to keep it going.

- Use open ended questions so that she has to talk a lot more to explain anything. Girls like to talk. Let them. They can always rationalize that they like you ; )

- Qualify like a motherfucker. Even if it's something simple like "I like that you can listen without interrupting, it's a lost art". Everybody wants to feel special. Besides, if you let them talk they will provide lots of things to appreciate, right?


A little more risky trick is when you do/say something bit more edgy that she should object to and yet she doesn't. It gives her more solid reasons that she has to like you a lot.

Best time to do it is when a girl is already hooked well and wants to see where that interaction is going. Basically any sort of challenge is great. The whole point of it is that it should feel worse for her to decline the challenge [and look like a boring dork] than accepting it.

For example, tease her saying "you're too uptight for me, is it how you naturally are is it because of me?" or "you seem like one of those texting dorks who never answer their phones cause they're scared little girls not knowing how to handle real talk with a real guys" so that she will want to qualify to you.

Yesterday I said to a girl "you should probably go home now like a nice little girl that you are, it's fine, I'll understand, no worries" with a devilish smirk and she said "what? no way, I'm in, let's see what you got". That was a real decision triggered by emotions. It was her contributing to the interaction.


In short, you want to turn positive emotions into something tangible and real on girl's part, ideally some sort of official move that indicates that she participates too.

Post: #12

(09-01-2014 01:18 AM)JetBlack Wrote:  Hi guys, I need some help. But first a little intro about myself. I've been going out for about 2 years semi consistently. My style of game is a little mix between Krauser's (teasing, frame, calibration) and Jon Matrix's (chill, frame, conversation). I've currently no problem stopping, engaging in conversation, and getting a number. But my sticking point seems to be getting the numbers to respond at all, or even if they do, they stop replying when I ask them out, and when I reping they'll reply until I ask them out again.

I wouldn't say my calibration is that much off. After a lot of reflection and talking to my wings (who are getting better results than I am), we figured that my problem is that I don't create enough comfort and rapport in set (Krauser differentiates the two). I am a low energy introverted guy, but in set I am comfortable talking more at least until she opens up.

I use a lot of mid-risk teases in set (which according to my wings who have stood beside me say that it's not at all miscalibrated). The problem I think is that, no matter how much she enjoys the conversation or is attracted, the moment I leave and the bubble bursts, she goes back to reality in a "what just happened?" sense and then doesn't have any strong motivation to reply or meet me anymore. It's hard to explain or show how my approaches are like exactly but all I can say it's no flair, Jon Matrix low energy chill style, with Krauser's conversational wit (sans the rapport and comfort).

Anyway, any tips on how to improve rapport game in approaches? And build comfort too, or at least make her want to get to know me more even if she doesn't immediately jump at the chance of a day 2?

You do everything too good but rather technical.Yes,5-10 minutes is the right amount of time to talk before getting a number and what you do to take it is right.But it does not have to do with the environment.You take the girls off too away from the environment and then they land to the harsh reality.You just provide them an emotional escape for some minutes.
It happens to me as well sometimes.You see it when you are talking to a girl and suddenly a gypsy beggar asks for money neutralizing all the magic you have created(of course the beggar knows what he does,he does it deliberately so you pay him money to vanish soon so the girl gets back to the magic)..So one has to be always in concordance to his environment.It is O.K. to lift the girl all girls want to escape but not too much except in the case of clubs where girls really have time to escape and when they get back to the club atmosphere it is magic as well.But in day game it is double sword.So talk more about the actual environment and less about exotic places to have the girl relatively landed.
Of course slavic women(especially Czech) and some categories of western women largely prefer to live in a sweet phantasy world than the gruesome reality and they may become addicted if you combine this world with you.Again this is balance.