Post: #101

I'm glad we are getting some productive discussion on this topic.

Mbare touched on choosing between luck and between being good. That reminded me of a quote one of my buddies in business told me. I don't remember it verbatim, but it was something like, "you have to know the difference between being good and being lucky." This is a big one for me, knowing when I got a girl because my game was good and when I just got lucky.

Anyway, I'm all over the place today.

Here's a link to one of the best articles I have found on good looking game.

Quote:Now if your the other kind of good looking, you got your work more cut out for you. Why? Because you are always, always, always, more than a fuck to her. You will be so high value that girls although willing to risk being a one night stand with you, really really fight it, even if she’s going along with it in hopes that her magical vagina will blind you to your own amazingness long enough for you to consider dating her.

This might sound outrageous to some guys, but In my experience I've found it to be pretty true.

Post: #102

You guys do realize that no argument of "game vs looks" is complete without a discussion of how dick size affects the equation, right?

Post: #103

I think the take away here is that you need both. A lot of guys in the game spend a lot of time approaching but getting nowhere. They think they're decent looking and have game so therefore they should be getting better results, but really they're just a 5.

Unfortunately you can't change your facial genetics or your height, but you can reduce your body fat, get jacked and get amazing style, alas few guys try and get one and even fewer by a huge margin try and get both. (A lot of jacked men dress like shit and most well-dressed men are lean but have no muscle mass).

Post: #104

I've been overweight and a bad dresser, and I've been in shape and well-dressed.

I've also had no game and good game at different points.

Having game without looks isn't bad. Having looks without game, does nothing. Both together is killer.

Post: #105

What bothers me more is not so much bad game advice, but that these guys are usually horrible wing men who are passive. There is very little benefit imo in hanging out with good looking guys for gaming. I'd rather hang out with an average guy who has some game and knows how to wing, even it means doing more approaches. One good wing is worth way more lays than the added attention a good looking guy brings to a group.

Post: #106

(09-03-2014 05:06 PM)mbare Wrote:  The last point:
You'll know you're doing something right in your game, when a girl/girls you're dating or having SNLs with, tells you they normally have sex with taller, better looking guys, etc. That there was just something about you...

That is awesome, the "I never expected to date a XXXX guy" is a great ego boost. Even though it can be read as a backhanded compliment, when said in the throes of ecstasy it means you're passing her subconscious superficial tests.

Post: #107

(09-02-2014 11:36 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  Moving towards some actionable advice and inspiration, one of the biggest things guys can do to improve their facial features is dial their body fat down even tighter.

Here's 50 different face transformations from losing fat, mostly guys, but some of the girls are a striking difference too:

http://i.imgur.com/Z67zk.jpg

The two highlights are firstly the guy right after the Biggest Loser t-shirt blond girl. This guy went from a middling 4 or 5 to outright looking like a top-of-the-industry Calvin Klein model. He jumped up literally 5 or 6 points. The guy looked like your lowest college tubby omega, to exceeding Justin Timberlake or Brad Pitt.

The other one is the Indian guy with the nerdy glasses and perky little manboobs (he's right after the Wolverine claws guy). I'd put him at a 2, or generously, a 3. After the weight loss, he looks like a more rugged and better-looking version of Pete Sampras, the American tennis ace.

If you look at the before photos, you would never dream that they had the potential to look attractive, on the hard genetic level. But they decided to go for it and they discovered otherwise.

Bravo to both these gentlemen.

Post: #108

(09-05-2014 01:57 PM)CactusCat589 Wrote:  

(09-02-2014 11:36 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  http://i.imgur.com/Z67zk.jpg

If you look at the before photos, you would never dream that they had the potential to look attractive, on the hard genetic level. But they decided to go for it and they discovered otherwise.

Bravo to both these gentlemen.

That is what is so impressive with men and also misunderstood with many unsuccessful ones.

A man can do a lot simply by losing weight, bulking up, reducing body fat to 8-10% - plus in many instances the face of such a well-kept man in his 30s is more attractive to women than when he was in his early 20s.

That is why in my opinion a man who is in excellent shape and at an average or slightly below average height cannot fall below a 4 to 5, even if he is relatively ugly. Very very few have such a hideous face that impedes the entire attraction process even in perfect shape. Women do not have that luxury as one with a 2-4 face simply cannot make up her handicap in any way - and it gets a lot worse with age.

And even if the genetic lottery has taken a dump on you as a man, there are still factors that can balance a lot at least when you are looking for a LTR.

Here the best example to keep it positive and uplifting:



Sean Stephenson with his wife - professional motivational speaker.

He is undoubtedly a 1 on the Male attraction scale, but he balanced out plenty via Game, Fame and Wealth. Sure - he will never be a Player without throwing money at it, but scoring a rather attractive wife who will likely remain with him due to his Confidence and Game is no easy feat either.

This is an extreme example mentioned at Heartiste recently: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/09/0...-month-4/.

Post: #109

(09-04-2014 08:58 AM)berserk Wrote:  What bothers me more is not so much bad game advice, but that these guys are usually horrible wing men who are passive. There is very little benefit imo in hanging out with good looking guys for gaming. I'd rather hang out with an average guy who has some game and knows how to wing, even it means doing more approaches. One good wing is worth way more lays than the added attention a good looking guy brings to a group.

I laugh when guys talk about this. We've all had it happen to us, but I think this mostly stems from guy's need to use a wingman as a crutch. Is a good wingman valuable? Yes, but I'd argue that improvements in yourself are usually more beneficial long-term. The best thing is a good wingman who is also attractive. I've got at least three that I can think of off the top of my head that are close friends. I wonder why. They are all three taller than I am and better looking (one clearly better looking) and can get girls all by themselves because of this coupled with their reasonable to very good game. A good wing can fly solo any day of the week. When I hang with them and am talking to girls it's not necessarily really "easy" to get girls, but at the same time, it sure isn't that "hard."

My current LTR is more attractive, stable, and younger than the girls that all three of them are dating/fucking. I wouldn't say my game is better than them, but I sure do enjoy the respect they all give me at getting this girl. I feel extra accomplished.

Caveat: I believe I'm above average in looks/build. Definitely NOT model quality in face or build, but I know my self-esteem/self-image has been way out of wack compared to my actual looks/build for most of my life (at least when it comes to how I'm viewed by girls). I can get looks, but no girls are breaking their necks to look at me.

Like others here who were either fat/disheveled but had above average looks/build and had to make major strides in self improvement/game, I've realized that my looks are better than I thought (and also can be improved of course by getting in better shape, dressing better, etc...). However, I'd say that I'm reasonably good at giving advice in areas where I've improved significantly when it comes to game and lifestyle. So there are of course exceptions, but I agree that generally the more disparate a guy teaching game is from you (rich, super good looks, famous), the less likely his advice is going to work for you, unless he had a significant struggle to get that aspect of his life.

Similar to how women that were heavier or the ugly duckling when younger and then end up hot can often times be surprisingly sweet/feminine/down to earth.

Post: #110

^^When I hang out with my good looking friends I feel like the invisible man. Hard to game when it feels like you are not even there.

Post: #111

(09-05-2014 03:44 PM)Pride male Wrote:  ^^When I hang out with my good looking friends I feel like the invisible man. Hard to game when it feels like you are not even there.

I used to roll with a dude who was about my level lookswise, but had a completely different look. This was awesome because it created contrast, we could pretty easily read which girls were into which of us, and we were both sociable so we got social-proof effects from being around each other without stealing each other's prospects.

Post: #112

And then there is the Sam Smooth method:
http://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1970/11/11
One of the earlier Doonesbury characters. Back when it was still a cutting edge comic strip and not the voice of a Blue Pill generation.

Post: #113

(09-03-2014 09:27 PM)MrXY Wrote:  You guys do realize that no argument of "game vs looks" is complete without a discussion of how dick size affects the equation, right?

By the time she finds out I don't have a big dick it's too late, I'm getting laid anyways.

I'm tall and goodlooking. It doesn't help you get laid as much as you think. But it does help when you actually develop game. I view it as a boost when you have game.

Still looks don't matter. If you look good use it to your advantage. I can be a dick. If you're short and ugly get a better personality where people like you. No excuses just do what works for you.

Post: #114

(09-07-2014 12:46 AM)jake1720 Wrote:  

(09-03-2014 09:27 PM)MrXY Wrote:  You guys do realize that no argument of "game vs looks" is complete without a discussion of how dick size affects the equation, right?

By the time she finds out I don't have a big dick it's too late, I'm getting laid anyways.

I'm tall and goodlooking. It doesn't help you get laid as much as you think. But it does help when you actually develop game. I view it as a boost when you have game.

Still looks don't matter. If you look good use it to your advantage. I can be a dick. If you're short and ugly get a better personality where people like you. No excuses just do what works for you.

Describe a five lay status report, with summarised dialogue for you using your good looking guy game.

I want to read assessment of target, opening, counters (if any; shouldn't be a lot since you are good looking) and closers.

I would like a five lay report if possible.

I would also like another five lay report from another member who is average looking or below average looking.

I want to compare the effort put in.

Post: #115

Good looking guy problems: my good looking friend. All of these girls keep wanting to see but I simply don't have the time. Then they start crying and make me feel bad. Even if I just take them out then they want to have sex and I don't want to have sex with them because I already had sex with them like three times. And they all want me to be their boyfriend and for me to meet their friends and family. I need to go on a vacation to get away from all of this for awhile.

(I am not making this up.)

Post: #116

(09-08-2014 06:54 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Good looking guy problems: my good looking friend. All of these girls keep wanting to see but I simply don't have the time. Then they start crying and make me feel bad. Even if I just take them out then they want to have sex and I don't want to have sex with them because I already had sex with them like three times. And they all want me to be their boyfriend and for me to meet their friends and family. I need to go on a vacation to get away from all of this for awhile.

(I am not making this up.)

He's not kidding. Haha.

Post: #117

(09-08-2014 06:54 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Good looking guy problems: my good looking friend. All of these girls keep wanting to see but I simply don't have the time. Then they start crying and make me feel bad. Even if I just take them out then they want to have sex and I don't want to have sex with them because I already had sex with them like three times. And they all want me to be their boyfriend and for me to meet their friends and family. I need to go on a vacation to get away from all of this for awhile.

(I am not making this up.)

My friend is the same way. He banged 3 girls in about a 4 day span. I ask him if he wants to keep seeing them since it seems like easy sex. He just says no they're "boring". It is nothing to him.

Post: #118

(09-08-2014 11:18 PM)Jestx Wrote:  

(09-08-2014 06:54 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Good looking guy problems: my good looking friend. All of these girls keep wanting to see but I simply don't have the time. Then they start crying and make me feel bad. Even if I just take them out then they want to have sex and I don't want to have sex with them because I already had sex with them like three times. And they all want me to be their boyfriend and for me to meet their friends and family. I need to go on a vacation to get away from all of this for awhile.

(I am not making this up.)

My friend is the same way. He banged 3 girls in about a 4 day span. I ask him if he wants to keep seeing them since it seems like easy sex. He just says no they're "boring". It is nothing to him.

These stories underscore the point of the thread - if this kind of shit isn't happening to you, you aren't good-looking, or at least you're not dressing/presenting right for your good looks. It's really a different world. To quote a guy from a bodybuilding thread, who said when he was jacked "life was like a porno."

Post: #119

Following up on my last comment...human psychology is weird, there's a phenomenon called "the halo effect" where in our minds we impute attractive people with all sorts of personal qualities that they haven't demonstrated - we think hot/good-looking people must be nicer, more powerful, more trustworthy, etc. This has been fairly conclusively demonstrated in a bunch of psych studies going way back.

Easy to see how this works in dating, if a girl is talking to a really good-looking dude any confusion/miscommunication in speech, text, etc is going to be resolved in her mind to the positive. Whereas if she's not attracted, it's "creepy" or whatever." Don't lie and say you haven't done the same with hot chicks you meet.

My point is that if you're really put together, the comfort game almost takes care of itself by her hamster inputing those qualities to you.

Post: #120

(09-08-2014 06:54 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Good looking guy problems: my good looking friend. All of these girls keep wanting to see but I simply don't have the time. Then they start crying and make me feel bad. Even if I just take them out then they want to have sex and I don't want to have sex with them because I already had sex with them like three times. And they all want me to be their boyfriend and for me to meet their friends and family. I need to go on a vacation to get away from all of this for awhile.

(I am not making this up.)

Probably cause he's always been very good looking or at least he's alwyas had lot of pussy even when he was a teen. The best looking guy i know, that is actually by far the best looking guy i know and he is by far the one that gets more pussy, has actually lost his virginity that he was almost 22 (about a month before his 22nd birthday i think), now he's 25 and when a teen he was everything but good looking, he was short, skinny and nerdy, girls used to ignore him and often take the piss out of him. Then he grew about 20-25 cm he became obsessed with the gym and getting ripped, his face turned from nerdy and immature to edgy and masculine, he started p.e. for a huge dick and he moved to 2 different countries just to get more pussy. Results now he's always the best looking guy in the club , he gets approached constantly and he always and i mean always bangs a girl at the end of the night when he goes out, every time he goes out he gets pussy, even though he is not even fluent in english yet. The point is that all the girls he bangs either approach him, more than 50% i'd say or if he approaches them they always start making out with him less than 5 minutes after the approach, no game is involved. And now the crucial point is that he bangs every girl from 4 to 10, he would bang 90 maybe 95% of girls (of not black girls, he doesn't like black girls, he fucked just one black girl in these 3 years) he actually bangs any girl that apporaches him or that starts making out with him in few minutes as long as she's not scary horrible, but i have to say he can bang 4s as some other times he bangs really hot ones. I am pretty sure he has such easy tastes cause of his past with no pussy and no girls attracted to him.

Post: #121

(09-08-2014 06:54 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Good looking guy problems: my good looking friend. All of these girls keep wanting to see but I simply don't have the time. Then they start crying and make me feel bad. Even if I just take them out then they want to have sex and I don't want to have sex with them because I already had sex with them like three times. And they all want me to be their boyfriend and for me to meet their friends and family. I need to go on a vacation to get away from all of this for awhile.

(I am not making this up.)

Another example of that, this guy in 8 months has fucked i don't know, for sure more than 5 and i think not more than 10 girls via day game in the area he lives, some are hot some not so hot, but when they call him to have sex he always run to put his dick in their pussies, for sure he also met family and/or friends of some of them even though of course he is not interested at all in being their (loyal) boyfriend. I think this is another proof of what i think, as he didn't see any pussy, didn't have any kind of relation with girls till almost 22 now he wants to overdo, he wants to overcompensate for what he hasn't done.

Post: #122

(09-09-2014 09:01 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  Easy to see how this works in dating, if a girl is talking to a really good-looking dude any confusion/miscommunication in speech, text, etc is going to be resolved in her mind to the positive. Whereas if she's not attracted, it's "creepy" or whatever." Don't lie and say you haven't done the same with hot chicks you meet.

I speak english very well, i have a foreign accent but my english is very good, but sometimes girls take the piss out of my accent saying that i sound like borat, this good looking guy i know has my same accent, probably stronger and he speaks definitely worse than me, but girls just say his accent is hot, or try to help with the language when he can't say something, it's like his imperfect english is something that builds even more attraction to women as my very good english with a mild foreign accent is sometimes something they laugh at (it doesn't happen very often, but it happened).

Post: #123

Well, in terms of attraction, I don't think looks are the wondrous advantage people think. I usually get rated about 6.5 on multiple internet "rating sites," and I'm slightly overweight (not obese). At a dance party WITHOUT ALCOHOL I easily pulled a dtf 7 (would have been an 8 if she was skinnier), logistics unfortunately prevented the fuck, but the desire was still there. I also took a bus ride to the airport with this cute Latina 7 I didn't know, after the 45 minute car drive we were making out at the airport. This was also at a time when I had unkempt hair and average style. Game makes all the difference.

Post: #124

To give you more perspective, I'm also currently in the "red range" on BeautifulPeople.com's waiting period.

Post: #125

(09-05-2014 02:46 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

A blast from the past...hot wife by the way.