Post: #1

I have a family member who is clinically depressed and apparently suicidal or something... I can tell you his parents used to beat the living sh1t out of him for absolutely nothing. He went to university and 4 years averaging high 90's then quit on his very last course. He went and worked at a factory and then broke up with a girl and for the last 6 years has been on 'disability' for 'depression'.

I have another friend who tells me he also suffers from 'depression' and thats why he can't force himself to get a job.

As far as I'm concerned, he's just wallowing in self pity. Why is it that poor people in 3rd world countries never seemed 'depressed' about their situation.

I can't believe people are burdening our health systems with this made up condition. Yeah your sad, we get that, but the only person that can fix that is you.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/candice-creece...42774.html

Post: #2

Self-diagnosed depression is almost always bullshit. As is often the case, even professional psychological diagnoses are subject to a certain amount of bias. However, depression itself is most definitely a disease. You, like everyone, are a collection of neurotransmitters being pumped through a neural network. If this network's topology is disrupted, or if neurotransmitter levels are altered, depression and other psychological diseases can occur. The problem is that we don't yet have a reliable molecular marker for accurate diagnosis, and rely on fuzzy psychiatric markers.

Post: #3

It's real. That doesn't mean everyone who claims to have it actually does.

Post: #4

5/10 WB with lights off

Post: #5

Depression as a feeling isn't a disease.

Depression as a brain illness is a disease and has been characterized as "clinical depression." The reason we know this is because brain imaging technology can reveal changes in brain activity that connotes that type of depression. (I'm not including links because there are thousands, and entire books have been written about this.)

As for child abuse: studies have show that most of what we become has a genetic basis. But the one exception to that is when a kid is abused. That changes the structure of the brain and sets the kid up for a life of problems (science info here).

The above is one reason kids who escape harrowing inner city childhoods often end up with problems in the end.

As for your family member: I'd give him a break. In the same way kids who are starved don't grow to normal height, kids whose brains are messed with have a hard time becoming "normal" in adulthood. Doesn't mean it can't happen -- just that his neurons aren't firing right. What we "think" is actually a chemical process, of sorts, and depression interrupts that process. Anti-depressants can help, but often create other problems.

As for depression, to put it another way, think about how the world looked to you the moment when you were hit with the worst news of your life (someone dying, getting fired, getting dumped). The day might have been sunny, but it looked frozen. Food might have been plentiful, but looked sickening. Women might have been smiling, but you were in no shape to feel any desire. That's the way sufferers of clinical depression perceive the world -- as if it's their worst day, every day.

I have some of these issues due to some weird childhood thing but don't feel like getting into it. But I will say had I known this stuff, I might have been able to save my marriage (and my writing career) and might not be writing this now. I look back at periods of my life when things seemed black, but realize now nothing was really wrong. Live and learn.

Post: #6

I suffered through bouts of depression growing up. I've also had a lot of friends suffer through it from time to time as well.

I tried anti-depressants, pot, therapists, you name it. The irony though was the thing that helped me over come it was the gym which led me to many other things in the process that have helped continually protect me from lapsing back into it.

But in my own opinion, depression is caused by stagnation in the mind, body, and spirit. The Matrix says it quiet well, human beings define their existence by overcoming obstacles. When an individual is effectively well fed, entertained, clothed, housed, and employed in a cushy white collar job there are barely any physical challenges for the person to overcome.

You never hear of depression in 3rd world countries because those people are overcoming obstacles every single fucking day. Starvation, robbery, rape, and the like. To me surviving in the day to day is enough of a challenge.

However in 1st world countries, people don't really struggle at all. When I first started my office job, after three - four months I sank into a really depressive state after the allure of a new job wore off. The only thing that worked was when I set foot in the gym (body) and started working out daily.

Eventually my depression lifted and then two new things for me to study and ponder emerged. I took an interest in finance (mind) and theology (spirit). Only when a human attempts to break the mind, body, and spirit stagnation does depression start to go away. It's partly why a lot of guys are drawn to forums like this one.

Self improvement is the only sure fire way to get out of depression and stay out of it.

I still get low days, but i'm pretty sure everyone does. Depression like your friend is the quintessence of wallowing in self pity. My brother is like that too and personally I can't stand being around him. People like that are toxic to my own mental health and I avoid them a lot. They need a drill sergeant to kick them into shape.

Post: #7

We went over this before: /thread-33656.html

One problem is that emotions like sadness, melancholy, and shyness have been pathologized and confused with clinical cases. Normal people are going to be sad, listless. It's cyclical or indicative of someone needing to make a change.

As Days of Broken Arrows said, there is a real mental illness of depression, surely related to brain function. A lot of things like exercise and changing up your routine can help, as Frenchie said, but you have to get out of the rut. There are some cases which are clinical and need therapeutic intervention.

Robin Williams probably had it, and William Styron and others have written about it.

Post: #8

Quote:I have another friend who tells me he also suffers from 'depression' and thats why he can't force himself to get a job.

As far as I'm concerned, he's just wallowing in self pity. Why is it that poor people in 3rd world countries never seemed 'depressed' about their situation.

I don't know your friend, but this seems odd to me. A man could fake having a broken leg, for instance, and use it a reason to never get a job. Does that mean nobody has ever really broken their leg, and broken legs aren't a "real" ailment?

Post: #9

Yes. Research fmri. They can look at your brain and tell you what's happening.

It's the nature vs nurture argument. Yes alcoholism is a choice, but some are more inclined to it than others. So you can choose to be happy by working out and being social, but sometimes, for some that may be much more difficult to do.

I always thought ADD/ADHD was only symptom diagnosed. Even after I was "diagnosed" and on meds I thought this. Nope, they can actually see the difference using fmri. There is a marked difference between the ~10% brains with ADD/ADHD and "normal" people.

Post: #10

It runs in my family and I've been diagnosed with it. I personally tried to just work through it with exercise and eating clean but it didn't help that much.

Although, I've never been suicidal and I don't get mopey. Instead I mostly get miserable, angry and lash out at the slightest provocation.

Back in the early 2000s I got off my medication (Welbutrin) completely and was fine for a few months but shit just went completely downhill in the fourth or fifth month, to the point where I realized I did need it to feel normal.

I'm curious as to whether it's not all caused by something else rather than some haywire brain defect, though. I'm thinking about getting my T levels checked since my brother found out a while back he was suffering from hypogonadism and the doctors believe it might've been contributing to his depression.

Post: #11

Most people who claim to be "Depressed" are actually just "Dissatisfied" (with their life)

Some people really do have chemical problems in the brain.

Some people are just marinating in negativity and fear.

Some people are overwhelmed by the modern world.

Some people are not smart enough to figure out how to be happy.

Some people do have "clinical depression", which to me means that their brains are just wired to be unhappy.

I do feel bad for them and wish I could help them.

Most people, in free societies, just need to try harder and be more positive with themselves.

Post: #12

I believe a there should be a distinction between wallowing in self pity depression and depression caused by circumstance (cancer treatments).

Post: #13

^^^ There is. Depression is more common in chics than dudes...for obvious reasons found here in RVF. Just as ADD/ADHD is more common in dudes than chics.

Like diarrhea, psychiatric disorders run in your jeans.

Edit: Yeah mis-type. I meant disorder.

Post: #14

I would say it's more of a condition than a disease. it's like red haired people who lack pigmentation but you can't say they have a disease, likewise depressed people lack serotonin (the neurotransmitter responsible of mood) and their psychological condition is affected by that besides other causes related to their life.

Post: #15

In the mental health field, depression is considered a disorder not a disease. There are actually a few different types of depressive disorders categorized in the DSM 5 (i.e.major depressive disorder and dysthimic disorder). These disorders are part of a larger group, mood disorders.

Major depressive disorder is one of the most diagnosed disorders, yet there is still a stigma and it is misunderstood by the general population. All of us go through periods of sadness, but clinical depression is a mental disorder that interferes with major life
activities. It is usually causes by chemical imbalances in the brain or by patterns of
irrational thinking. Cognitive behavior therapy and antidepressants are the most effective treatments.

Post: #16

I am not sure that poor people in the third world never get depressed. I have lived in the third world, and a lot of families have the weird member who is just "off," who sits in a room listening to the radio all day or hangs out at a half-collapsed betting shop staring into space. Of course, in the absence of social programs, these things become family issues and are thus kept quiet and somewhat hidden. But once you get to know people you see that poverty does not always breed energy or gumption or whatever. There are a lot of people rocking back and forth in front of black-and-white televisions or on rotten porches, eating bread or thin soup and just hanging on.

Post: #17

Depression is a serious illness. It can lead people who are depressed to end their lives Just like what happened to Robin Williams.

Post: #18

Depression is real. Not all depression needs to be treated with medication. Good cognitive behavioral therapy combined with proper diet, exercise and sleep hygiene will probably take care of most cases. Medication is for when someone's life is in danger.

Robin Williams was bipolar - that's a whole different ball of yarn. Bipolar people actually tend to commit suicide when they're in manic phases rather than depressed ones due to the poor impulse control that comes along with mania. A big problem is physicians prescribing antidepressants to improperly diagnosed bipolar patients and kicking them into a manic phase which then leads to suicide.

Post: #19

(08-21-2014 09:06 PM)Ensam Wrote:  Depression is real. Not all depression needs to be treated with medication. Good cognitive behavioral therapy combined with proper diet, exercise and sleep hygiene will probably take care of most cases. Medication is for when someone's life is in danger.

Robin Williams was bipolar - that's a whole different ball of yarn. Bipolar people actually tend to commit suicide when they're in manic phases rather than depressed ones due to the poor impulse control that comes along with mania. A big problem is physicians prescribing antidepressants to improperly diagnosed bipolar patients and kicking them into a manic phase which then leads to suicide.

Hang on. I am bipolar, take lithium and have for many years. If I were to stop taking the medication, I might have a rush of manic energy(an extreme exuberance of high energy, life of the party, extremely fun to be around, easy to have an infectious or contagious amount of energy that attracts women that makes it easy to get them into bed) that could last for hours, days, or even months, followed by a complete crash, a lack of energy where I would want to do nothing buy lie on the floor and die.

During the manic phase, the extreme cases can involve a lack of common sense or a lack of basic instinct to survive: euphoria to the point of thinking you can jump off the top of a building and survive, walk out into moving traffic and stop cars. If you want to call these instances suicides, I think it is more likely due to not thinking straight, being overwhelmed and extremely reckless behavior. I might say later "I don't know what I was thinking, it made sense at the time" assuming I had survived.

If you took 3 brain scan images, one where I was medicated= my brain looks like anyone elses, one where I am manic= brain is enlarged with a lot of red streaks and pressing against the insides of my skull(think about the brain that Igor uses after dropping the normal brain, he grabs the abnormal brain for Frankenstein), and a third scan while depressed, the brain is shrunk and has a lot of black spots on the scan, I don't think there can be a question that depression can be real.

At any rate, you brought up that bipolar people are more likely to commit suicide while manic, they are more prone to risky behavior to be sure, I don't know if I would call it suicidal though. Every case is different, I am actually one of the lucky ones.

Post: #20

I've been diagnosed with depression. I've felt likeshit for weeks on end and been suicidal and all of that jazz. I think most people are mis diagnosed. Being sad is a part of life, but people don't realize that and instead of solving their problems they use 'depression' as an excuse. I'm sure I was mis diagnosed. What has made me feel better was finding Roosh and this forum and taking control of my life and not just letting bad shit happen to me. It is real though. It's basic chemistry.

Post: #21

I see it as similar to someone who's supposedly been raped.

If you only hear about it as a close family member or friend (or your profession deals directly with it), then it's most likely real.

If you and everyone else within earshot get told about it whether you care or not, you're dealing with an attention whore with a victim mentality.

Post: #22

(08-21-2014 02:04 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  We went over this before: /thread-33656.html

One problem is that emotions like sadness, melancholy, and shyness have been pathologized and confused with clinical cases. Normal people are going to be sad, listless. It's cyclical or indicative of someone needing to make a change.

As Days of Broken Arrows said, there is a real mental illness of depression, surely related to brain function. A lot of things like exercise and changing up your routine can help, as Frenchie said, but you have to get out of the rut. There are some cases which are clinical and need therapeutic intervention.

Robin Williams probably had it, and William Styron and others have written about it.

Good ole California Supreme. Wasn't that his last thread?

Vitamin B in high doses has been shown to help with depression as well. Alcoholics have been using it for some time now to help them with it.

Post: #23

(08-21-2014 09:35 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

(08-21-2014 09:06 PM)Ensam Wrote:  Depression is real. Not all depression needs to be treated with medication. Good cognitive behavioral therapy combined with proper diet, exercise and sleep hygiene will probably take care of most cases. Medication is for when someone's life is in danger.

Robin Williams was bipolar - that's a whole different ball of yarn. Bipolar people actually tend to commit suicide when they're in manic phases rather than depressed ones due to the poor impulse control that comes along with mania. A big problem is physicians prescribing antidepressants to improperly diagnosed bipolar patients and kicking them into a manic phase which then leads to suicide.

Hang on. I am bipolar, take lithium and have for many years. If I were to stop taking the medication, I might have a rush of manic energy(an extreme exuberance of high energy, life of the party, extremely fun to be around, easy to have an infectious or contagious amount of energy that attracts women that makes it easy to get them into bed) that could last for hours, days, or even months, followed by a complete crash, a lack of energy where I would want to do nothing buy lie on the floor and die.

I didn't say medication - I specifically said antidepressants. Lithium is a mood stabilizer which is a totally different category from things like prozac and paxil, etc. That's why it's important for people to get treated by a good psychiatrist and not just their primary care physician who has probably only had limited training on mental illness. If you'd been given prozac while you were in a depressive phase it likely would have pushed you into a manic state like you would not believe.

Post: #24

Yes, it's been proven there's a chemical imbalance. It's also one of those things that social justice warriors love to talk about in relation exclusively to bullying or LGBT, forgetting it can affect really anyone.

Post: #25

So kinda like this or is this BPD... wasn't the whole thing about goths/emos and all that bullshit about depression and sadness?