Post: #1

Hey, so I'm trying to figure out if there was a way to get around the 90 days in/90 days out rule for staying in the Ukraine. Apparently there aren't any long-term visas for freelancers or anything like that. There is some information on this thread that if you overstay, you'll simply get fined, but then can't come back until another 90 days.

/thread-13128.html

I wonder if there's some hack, loophole or some legitimate way to just expatriate there. Some people mentioned that you can just do border crossings and come right back, but I don't know how reliable this is. Anyone have any tricks up their sleeve?

Post: #2

I've heard from more than one guy that border runs work, because their land crossing system is not computerized and they only care about the 90 days in rule, not 90 days out. But if you read the Ukraine Expat form, they've recently been saying how border control is computerizing their system and this loophole either doesn't work all the time or will soon enough stop working. They could just be fearmongering, however.

Whether it works or not at the moment, it seems more of a short-term loophole that will likely be shut down since it's technically not legal. Then again, Ukraine is a basket case so maybe this is not a priority for them to fix in the next year or two. I was thinking of trying it, but I would take all my stuff in the case they don't let me back in.

Post: #3

(08-17-2014 08:04 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I've heard from more than one guy that border runs work, because their land crossing system is not computerized and they only care about the 90 days in rule, not 90 days out. But if you read the Ukraine Expat form, they've recently been saying how border control is computerizing their system and this loophole either doesn't work all the time or will soon enough stop working. They could just be fearmongering, however.

Here's an article about how they've begun to tighten their border controls.

http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/uk...27521.html

and another informative piece from the guy who runs TryUkraine and why even he can't stay there because there isn't a legit way for foreigners to stay.

http://tryukraine.blogspot.com/2010/07/c...ation.html

It seems stupid to me that they don't want foreigners to stay there longer and pump some money into their economy, but governments always do things that don't make sense. I guess all we can do now is do border runs and hope they work or maybe that the new government starts doing things that make sense, but I doubt it.

Post: #4

dontuan, this isn't specific to your thread but I hope it is ok to post here in case someone needs this info. There are a few mentions of Ukraine but my quick review of this old thread didn't show me anything solid.

"How US Citizens Can Live in Europe (Schengen) Forever, Legally, Without a Visa"
/thread-31412.html

Once again not trying to derail just trying to help spread some info.

Seems like you like it there Ukraine! I hope you are having a blast.

Post: #5

Use to be easy. You just get a business visa good for 1,3, or even 5 years. There must be still a similar option?
Pretty sure there are some companies selling invitation letters for people to come study or do or business,etc.
Heard of folks going to OVIR to get extensions.

Post: #6

I spoke with a Ukrainian immigration lawyer at length about this several times and IMO the smartest most problem free option to me seemed to pull the good ol' fake marriage. He agreed

If u have a SOLID female Freind there who u Trust and have a strong friendship bond with and are NOT sleeping with, she would be the ideal candidate.

Offer to pay her $500 to $1000 in the end "as thanks" to sweeten the pot. That's very big money in Ukraine, especially for a young student type.

U will have to leave the country shortly as papers are processed but from there your as good as gold .....PERMANENTLY. Bam!!!

~theVamipre

Post: #7

(08-18-2014 03:11 AM)theVampire Wrote:  I spoke with a Ukrainian immigration lawyer at length about this several times and IMO the smartest most problem free option to me seemed to pull the good ol' fake marriage. He agreed

If u have a SOLID female Freind there who u Trust and have a strong friendship bond with and are NOT sleeping with, she would be the ideal candidate.

Offer to pay her $500 to $1000 in the end "as thanks" to sweeten the pot. That's very big money in Ukraine, especially for a young student type.

U will have to leave the country shortly as papers are processed but from there your as good as gold .....PERMANENTLY. Bam!!!

~theVamipre

A few issues with that:

1. One you are married they put a marriage stamp in your passport so it makes it harder to hide from other chicks who might be looking at your passport.

2. None of the expats are sure what happens in a divorce. Technically one loses permanent residency in a divorce. There might be ways around that like having ownership, etc but than she gets half.

Post: #8

This is piggy backing off the what jmkur104 said earlier.

You can extend at the OVIR but only if you hold a tourist visa from a consulate or embassy. The visa is for 45 days, then you can extend into a temporary resident permit for whatever duration the OVIR official at the time allows.

Here is some literature from the US embassy and the Ukraine Cabinet of Ministers

http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/message_09122011.html
http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/567-2011-%D0%BF

The business visa you can get, but you have to register with immigration within 30 days of arriving. I talked to some friends in Ukraine about this and they advise against it. You need a alibi of what you are doing in Ukraine.

Quote:American Citizens travelling to Ukraine still do not need visas for stays of less than 90 cumulative days within a 180 day period. This means you can come for 90 days in one trip and then remain outside the country for 90 days, or that you can make multiple shorter trips to Ukraine totaling no more than 90 days in a 180 day period starting with the date of your first entry. If you plan to spend more time in Ukraine – either during one trip or multiple trips – then you need a visa.

Visas are issued by Ukrainian Embassies and Consulates abroad. There is no way to obtain a visa in Ukraine or at the border. The new long term visas are single-entry and are valid for 45 days (the validity dates determine when you can enter the country, not how long you can stay). This new type of visa replaces all previously existing visa types that allowed stays in Ukraine for more than 90 days. Americans can apply at any Ukrainian Embassy or Consulate, but you should contact the Embassy or Consulate where you intend to apply in advance because exact procedures and processing times vary.

The new long-term stay visas allow you to enter Ukraine during their 45 day validity period. You then need to apply for a temporary residence permit at your local immigration office (officially called VGIRFO but usually referred to by its old acronym, OVIR). The temporary residence permit gives you full legal status in Ukraine and lets you freely travel in and out of Ukraine for as long as it is valid. You will not need to apply for a new visa if you leave Ukraine and you will not need to re-register with OVIR during the permit’s validity period.

Post: #9

These forum questions make me laugh a bit. Its Ukraine. Why are you guys fubling with visas and "official" methods of staying in Ukraine? The easiest official method is to open a company in Ukraine as the director you can grant your self work authorization. There are companies for sure in Kiev who will do all of this for you for a price. This also allows you work authorization on a contract basis in any Ukrainian company. Use it to do consulting work or something or just stay there and do your own thing. Less official but easily attainable are just flat out purchasing a work visa each year. I don't know the going rate in Ukraine now but in Russia it's $2000 a year. Ukraine is not Europe or America. Actually all of the immigrants in Russia and Ukraine are a bit smarter than Americans or Europeans in this regard. Go there, talk to expats who are not from Europe or the States. Believe me, they know people who can help you. Be resourceful because if you aren't, good luck living there long term.

Post: #10

Expatua would be the last place I would go to for advice. It's just a bunch of old farts who found their wives on the internet and decided to collect and live off their pensions in Ukraine. Most (if you judge by the amount of posts they have) just stay in their flats all day, tap on their keyboards and shooting their mouths off about being legal etc. These guys are insulated from normal Ukrainian life and society by their wives and in-laws.

The amount of uninformed and impractical advice is so astounding it's not even laughable.

These types of posts are usually started by some guy in a panic desperate for advice, then a bunch of responses and advice with urban myth theories etc. about deportation, massive computer systems that can track your stay at the push of a button etc. Nobody really knows, most of it is bullshit. If you decide to come to a place like Ukraine and want to stay long term you better learn the reality of how things are done, because at the end of the day you're taking your chances here like everybody else and no forum is really going to help you. BTW, I've been here over 15 years under all types of Visas, registrations, work permits and without and I'm still here....

Post: #11

I have overstayed one time the 90 days in Ukraine, and absolutely nothing happened. I left 5 $ in the passport, they took the 5 $ and gave the passport back to me without even looking.

Corruption in Ukraine has its advantages

Post: #12

Hey so I found this organization, the British Business Club of Ukraine, that helps expats and foreigners figure out how to get visas and stay long term in Ukraine. I haven't dealt with them yet, but they offer a free consult, so it might be helpful for those who are exploring all possible options.

Anyone ever tried them yet? I'll report back after I discuss my situation over with them.

http://bbcu.com.ua/index.html

Post: #13

Hey! So I found an organization that provides a legit way to stay in Ukraine long term for a fee that's not too expensive. If you're interested, PM me and I'll give you a contact.

Post: #14

I stumbled across this news of interest on December 8th, 2015 - if so, it could simplify many people's plans, or hurt their long-term ones:

Ukraine ‘3%’ Away From EU Visa-Free Green Light

The EU has warned Ukraine it needs to finalise anti-corruption reforms to get a thumbs up for visa-free travel by the end of the year. Speaking after talks with Ukraine PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk in Brussels on Monday (7 December), commissioner Johannes Hahn said “the fight against corruption was, is, and stays at the top of our joint priority list.”

— Hat tip: Fjordman [Return to headlines]

Post: #15

(12-08-2015 11:38 PM)Orson Wrote:  I stumbled across this news of interest on December 8th, 2015 - if so, it could simplify many people's plans, or hurt their long-term ones:

Ukraine ‘3%’ Away From EU Visa-Free Green Light

The EU has warned Ukraine it needs to finalise anti-corruption reforms to get a thumbs up for visa-free travel by the end of the year. Speaking after talks with Ukraine PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk in Brussels on Monday (7 December), commissioner Johannes Hahn said “the fight against corruption was, is, and stays at the top of our joint priority list.”

— Hat tip: Fjordman [Return to headlines]

That article is about visa-free travel to Europe for Ukrainian citizens, which won't happen in any case because they haven't met the requirements and they need unanimous support from countries like Switzerland which won't grant it.

Europeans already have visa-free access to Ukraine (for 90 days).

For anyone looking to stay in Ukraine, I found the easiest way was to negotiate with a university. You'll probably have to pay for one subject, but it isn't expensive.

The other option is to register a company and hire yourself, but you'll need to bring some money into the country and pay tax on it.