Post: #1

I was reading E.B. White's classic "Charlotte's Web" to my daughter tonight. The book was written and first published in 1952.

The following sentence leapt off the page at me...

"Well," he thought, "I've got a new friend, all right. But what a gamble friendship is! Charlotte is fierce, brutal, scheming, bloodthirsty - everything I don't like. How can I learn to like her, even though she is pretty and, of course, clever?"

A beta character recognizes a female's true nature but wants to ignore it because she is pretty and clever. The last two adjectives sound like a white knight who gets his talking points from Jezebel!

It's fun to read these stories to the kids as I get older. You can see that older stories/authors very much understood the cruel nature of women: the step mother in Cinderella, the step mother in Hansel and Gretel, the wicked queen in Snow White, the Fish Monger's wife, etc.

Do any other father's here have any examples to share? I want to read my girls books that have a strong familial/patriarchal background. Traditional gender roles. That sort of thing. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Post: #2

(08-14-2014 12:44 AM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  I was reading E.B. White's classic "Charlotte's Web" to my daughter tonight. The book was written and first published in 1952.

The following sentence leapt off the page at me...

"Well," he thought, "I've got a new friend, all right. But what a gamble friendship is! Charlotte is fierce, brutal, scheming, bloodthirsty - everything I don't like. How can I learn to like her, even though she is pretty and, of course, clever?"

A beta character recognizes a female's true nature but wants to ignore it because she is pretty and clever. The last two adjectives sound like a white knight who gets his talking points from Jezebel!

It's fun to read these stories to the kids as I get older. You can see that older stories/authors very much understood the cruel nature of women: the step mother in Cinderella, the step mother in Hansel and Gretel, the wicked queen in Snow White, the Fish Monger's wife, etc.

Do any other father's here have any examples to share? I want to read my girls books that have a strong familial/patriarchal background. Traditional gender roles. That sort of thing. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I think anything published before the 1960s would fit the bill really. Raid your parents' attic.

Post: #3

The Flintstones. Seriously. I just watched an episode where Fred was mistaken for an international spy by a Russian chick. He was all flattered and Wilma says to him "men like you don't get noticed unless a woman wants something".

That's just ONE example. Red pill everywhere.

Post: #4

(08-14-2014 12:44 AM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  Do any other father's here have any examples to share? I want to read my girls books that have a strong familial/patriarchal background. Traditional gender roles. That sort of thing. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

That's actually really interesting, I had noticed the trend of evil stepmothers but had never really thought about it. It even has its own page on tv tropes which is how you know its legit.

For the fairy tale examples you posted I think the reason may be that guys were less likely to be stepdads back then. A single woman with kids would take what she could get, but a single guy with his kids would presumably still have options, as he could support himself while he looked for a woman who didn't come with a few extra mouths to feed.

According to Jezebel though the reason is that stepmoms are the most vulnerable part of a blended family, and this is just one more way that women are held down by the patriarchy.

Post: #5

Literature is filled with red pill messages about the true nature of women. These messages are merely suppressed and discouraged out of political correctness and fear of losing the female audience.

Good post. I wonder how red pill fathers deal with these issues as they raise their children. I imagine it is a difficult task.

Post: #6

Great catch. I never even picked up on that in Charlotte's Web.

The Little House series, I commented elsewhere, but Laura is a great example. For instance, she's fascinated with Indians. Why is that? Because Indians are mysterious and violent, AND her mother hates Indians, so they're forbidden. My daughter asked me once why the dad is the boss in that family. I had to think a bit, but what I came up with was that he was the boss because he'd put his life on the line for them. He's always the one out risking his life while the women and children stay in safety as much as possible. It's deeper than that, but that was the best I could come up with at the time. I didn't want to get into the whole biblical explanation or whatever.

It's tough. I have another in middle school and she's fully absorbed the feminist mindset, complaining about how we haven't had a woman President even though we're supposedly the "land of the free". Not sure how to attack that one.

Ever notice in Disney, how in the past how the birth mother was always gone and the tension in the story was over the father? In Cinderella & Snow White the father failed to protect his daughter from another woman. In Pocahontas, Aladdin, and Little Mermaid, it's the battle of wills with the father. Now in Frozen, the Father AND the Mother are gone. I bet we see more stories like that.

Post: #7

In the original story of King Arthur, Arthur's life is destroyed by his wife Guinevere's affair with Lancelot.

In Snow White and the 7 Dwarves, the stepmother is the villain.

In Rapunzel, the villain is a witch.

In Macbeth, Macbeth is lead to murder the king by his wives and the 3 witches.

In the story of Adam and Eve, Eve gives into temptation with the forbidden fruit.

In the Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe, the villain is the White Witch.

In Hansel and Gretal, the villains are the witch and the stepmother.

Post: #8

Caractacus Potts, that's a great observation you made in that book. Now look at modern day cartoons, children's movies/TV shows, grown-up movies/TV shows, news stories, and you will no doubt see things even more horrifying than what's being espoused in Charolette's Web.

I'm curious, are you going to teach your daughters they should surrender themselves to a man someday? To choose well, and be answerable to him completely when the time comes?

The reason I ask is that most American Father's I know want to keep their daughters for themselves and teach them never to trust and count on a man. They teach their daughters they should be independent and have a good career and that the man should be sub-serviant to them. They don't need to learn to cook, take care of a home. They financially coddle their daughters through college and beyond, so they won't have to choose a man and surrender themselves to him. They stay Daddy's little girl.

I think most American Father's do this because their wives are so animus-possessed and lacking femininty that they have their relation to the feminine through their daughters, desperatley trying to keep them innocent their whole lives. Innocent in the respect they never have to suffer, never have to do without, never have to submit to a man.

All that aside, while it's good to be concerned about the message being told in children's books, I think they are the least of your worries. Movies, Television, Internet (the media in general) along with what they learn in school will be your biggest threat. At every turn they will be bombarded with feminism. The only thing you can do is to see it with them, talk to them about what they see, and help them see the negativity and even better the contradictions that exist for taking the path of the modern day woman.

For a marriage to bring any kind of inward development, men need to sacrifice and women need to surrender. Otherwise it's just a relationship based on self-interests.

Best wishes, it will be difficult.

Post: #9

(08-16-2014 09:11 AM)Onto Wrote:  I'm curious, are you going to teach your daughters they should surrender themselves to a man someday? To choose well, and be answerable to him completely when the time comes?

The reason I ask is that most American Father's I know want to keep their daughters for themselves and teach them never to trust and count on a man. They teach their daughters they should be independent and have a good career and that the man should be sub-serviant to them. They don't need to learn to cook, take care of a home. They financially coddle their daughters through college and beyond, so they won't have to choose a man and surrender themselves to him. They stay Daddy's little girl.

I think most American Father's do this because their wives are so animus-possessed and lacking femininty that they have their relation to the feminine through their daughters, desperatley trying to keep them innocent their whole lives. Innocent in the respect they never have to suffer, never have to do without, never have to submit to a man.

That's a great point. There's the whole helicopter parenting thing which happens and both boys and girls never really grow up. There's a line to walk though. You want them to be able to get out on their own and do things, but you don't want to create one of these women who has no idea how to have a relationship with a man. And let's face it, being a home maker is not a full time job anymore. My grandmother had to work hard to keep a home in the 40's & 50's. I mentioned Laura Ingalls, she has a great essay where she talks in the 1920's I believe about how amazing all the labor saving devices are, how astonishing it is that a woman could go to the store and buy all this stuff that her mother had to grow, make, or barter for. I'll have to find the essay & reprint.

"men need to sacrifice & women need to surrender" - what we get today is men sacrificing and women doing their thing like nothing's changed. That's why marriage is such a shitty deal today. Charles Ingalls worked like a rented mule. He put his life in danger many times. And in exchange for that, his wife respected his authority. I don't know how that works anymore. Let's face it, in middle class America today, the greatest risks to life are driving a car and our sedentary lifestyles.

Post: #10

(08-15-2014 12:41 PM)RockHard Wrote:  It's tough. I have another in middle school and she's fully absorbed the feminist mindset, complaining about how we haven't had a woman President even though we're supposedly the "land of the free". Not sure how to attack that one.

Tell her "Land of the Free" is a democracy, and it would be wrong to impose a female leader if nobody votes them in.

Post: #11

(08-16-2014 01:24 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:41 PM)RockHard Wrote:  It's tough. I have another in middle school and she's fully absorbed the feminist mindset, complaining about how we haven't had a woman President even though we're supposedly the "land of the free". Not sure how to attack that one.

Tell her "Land of the Free" is a democracy, and it would be wrong to impose a female leader if nobody votes them in.

You could tell her that people ascend to the position of leader only after they've laid the groundwork. The entire country was devised and built by men, from the Constitution to the skyscrapers to the defense industrial complex. As such, it can really only be run by men considering the heavy lifting involved. As such, men continue to run it.

And so electing a woman is like electing a queen -- someone who can never really earn the title, but ascends to a throne.

Before you say all that, be sure you have your papers in order for when your wife contacts the lawyer -- hahahaha.

PS: Stepmothers were prominent in literature because they were prominent in life. A lot of women died in childbirth pre-1900 and men married other women to give their kids mothers.

Can't expect Jezebel to research this since that would take time out of their whining. But this tradition continued on in right into the TV era ("My Three Sons," "Bonanza"). Hell, even "Full House" might have been unwittingly created in this mold.

Post: #12

This isn’t necessarily a red pill recommendation to fathers, it is just something I recall reading about in the book What Do You Say After You Say Hello? by psychiatrist Eric Berne. The thread topic evoked this book in my memory.

In one of the chapters of the book Dr. Berne analyzes fairy tales through a psychoanalytic lens. Here is my abridged version of one of his pieces:

So Little Red Riding Hood’s mother sends her into the woods to bring food to her grandmother and on the way she meets a wolf. Some questions arise. What kind of mother sends a little girl into the forest where there are wolves? Why didn’t her mother do it herself, or go along with LRRH? If grandmother was so helpless, why did mother leave her all by herself in a hut far away? But if LRRH had to go, how come her mother had never warned her not to stop and talk to wolves?

The story makes it clear that LRRH had never been told that this was dangerous. No mother could really be that stupid, so it sounds as if her mother didn’t care much what happened to LRRH, or maybe even wanted to get rid of her. No little girl is that stupid either. How could LRRH look at the wolf’s eyes, ears, hands, and teeth, and still think it was her grandmother? Why didn’t she get out of there as fast as she could?

Even the grandmother and the hunter aren’t above suspicion. If we now treat the dramatis personae of this story as real people, there are some other issues that arise.

1. The mother seems to be trying to lose her daughter ‘accidentally’, or at least she wants to end up saying: ‘Isn’t it awful, you can’t even walk through the woods nowadays without some wolf …’ etc.

2. The wolf must want to invite trouble because he must have known that he could not pull this stunt and get away with it. He evidently read Nietzsche or someone similar in his youth and his motto is something like ‘Live dangerously and die gloriously.’

3. Grandmother lives alone and leaves her door unlocked, so she may be hoping for something interesting to happen, something which couldn’t happen if she were living with her relatives. Maybe that’s why she didn’t move in with them, or at least live next door. She was probably young enough to be ripe for adventure, since LRRH was still a little girl.

4. The hunter is obviously a rescuer who enjoys working over his vanquished opponents with sweet little maidens to help.

5. The truth is that everyone in the story is looking for action at almost any price. If the payoff at the end is taken at face value, then the whole thing was a plot to do in the poor wolf by making him think he was outsmarting everybody, using LRRH as bait. In that case, the moral of the story is not that innocent maidens should keep out of forests where there are wolves, but that wolves should keep away from innocent-looking maidens and their grandmothers; in short, a wolf should not walk through the forest alone.

This also raises the interesting question of what the mother did after she got rid of LRRH for the day.

Hope this doesn't derail the thread, I just found this interesting.