Post: #4676

I had arm surgery done and couldn't work out or do any sport for about 4 months. It sucked balls because I was pretty active before, went to the gym 3-4 times a week. Also, I ate like a pig during the Christmas break and at 35, it's the first time that I'm getting soft around the mid section.

Anyway, I'll return to the gym tomorrow. It'll be brutal. What do you guys recommend, light full body work out or jumping back into my previous routine (with light weights obviously)?

Post: #4677

(01-19-2019 11:15 AM)BoiBoi Wrote:  I had arm surgery done and couldn't work out or do any sport for about 4 months. It sucked balls because I was pretty active before, went to the gym 3-4 times a week. Also, I ate like a pig during the Christmas break and at 35, it's the first time that I'm getting soft around the mid section.

Anyway, I'll return to the gym tomorrow. It'll be brutal. What do you guys recommend, light full body work out or jumping back into my previous routine (with light weights obviously)?

The choice of workout matters much less than actually getting in the gym regularly again.

Use light weights because your technique will be rusty. Give yourself a few weeks to get used to the feel and you'll find you haven't lost as much strength as it initially seems.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #4678

Post: #4679

Just got back from the gym. Crushed a juicy 5 hour chest workout. Chests definitely a little tight. Got that deep burn. Just gotta retract the scalpula, keep everything nice and tight. Yeah took the 180's for a ride on the incline. Then took that shit out on flat for 100 reps. Yeeeaah, shits a little juicy right now, not gonna lie. What do you guys know about that? Nothing? Wellll not surprised, do you guys even lift? Looking a little small there bro. Why do we have a lounge when guys aren't gettin joocy? Just make yourself useful and go hit some chest, sheesh.

Post: #4680

Feel like my strength progress has stalled. I feel "more efficient" in my lifts, but I'm not putting up any better numbers. Failed a 275 bench few weeks ago, and failed a 365 squat the week after. My maxes are still right where they were almost a year ago. That said, I feel like weights I was moving this time last year and even last summer prior to my surgery are moving better, smoother, faster, etc. I've lost 15 lbs since last summer which has a slight impact on my lifts, but I should still be seeing gains with consistent training.

I have been running IB's program (modified) for almost 2 years now and I think I might want to change up my training program. I might look around for something that interests me, but I also might think about writing my own program. I need something that addresses my weakpoints in the lifts. I'd hate to think at my relatively meager strength level that I need specialized movements to work on weakpoints, but I don't know what else to do. Doing the normal movements with normal accessories is just not pushing me through plateaus anymore it seems.

I took 2 weeks off after testing my bench and squat maxes and just getting back into the gym this week. Deadlifted yesterday and I am technically peaked for my deadlift after yesterday's workout (3 x 1 x 95%) - Those singles were grindy (first one was okay) but that's still not bad considering I haven't touch a single weight in 14 days. Think I might rest a few days then maybe go for a deadlift max then start a whole new training block using the GZCL method with some creative accessories and maybe try to focus more on hypertrophy.

Post: #4681

Hitting the same 1rms but 15 lbs lighter is significant progress.

What's IB's program?

Post: #4682

(01-29-2019 02:02 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Hitting the same 1rms but 15 lbs lighter is significant progress.

Not in a year, at least not per my standards. I feel like that is way too slow of progress for how not-big of numbers I'm putting up. I know it's all relative, but at a sub-400 squat, sub-450 deadlift, and a sub-300 bench I still feel like I'm at novice strength levels especially being over 200 lbs.

(01-29-2019 02:02 PM)Kieran Wrote:  What's IB's program?

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Post: #4683

Have you ever thought about changing program completely in favor of something less taxing and forgetting about numbers? I stopped doing these "high intensity low volume" programs because I was always tired despite eating well, sleeping well, being low stressed. Always felt destroyed and my confidence regarding gym went low because I couldn't hit numbers and because linear progression destroyed my ass.
I started watching Steve Shaw's videos about his concepts of training and his ideas and it clicked. This is for me, a so called powerbuilding. Been doing one of his programs for some time now and I feel that it was the best choice I ever did regarding program selection.

Post: #4684

Do you have a lot of bodyfat to lose? Most naturals in the normal height range can't get anywhere near to 200 lbs bodyweight without being pretty fat. This would make your numbers seem a lot better than they do now.

On programmes, 5/3/1 would be perfect at this level. But don't be like most people who let their ego get in the way and so don't set their training maxes as per the book, so they don't end up hitting the kind of reps they should be (somewhere in the region of 10 reps on 5s week, 6-8 reps on 3s week, and 5 reps on 5/3/1 week). You might want to reduce the frequency of deloads to every 2 or 3 cycles as in my experience most people don't need the deload once every 4 weeks and it can even be harmful.

5/3/1 also gives you a lot of flexibility on assistance.

Microloading could also be helpful. I have sets of 0.25kg, 0.5kg, and 0.75kg plates which allow me to break the usual 2.5kg increments into 5 stages instead of 1 which I use mainly for assistance, and also to more accurately hit percentages called for in my programmes for main lifts. They're particularly helpful for bench, OHP, and other upper body lifts.

Post: #4685

So much of strength involves tendon and joint health, or neuromuscular motor patterns. Another issue could be gross muscle imbalance - with groups lagging far behind or fascial chains tacked down with adhesions and scar tissue. Any relatively low lifts? Any obvious issues with flexibility? Are there any movements that cause sharp pain? It’s the niggling little details that can become roadblocks at the top.

Post: #4686

This is the reality of being natural, and being slimmer. I remember commenting on your log a long time ago trying to ask gently whether you would consider the possibility that your rapid progress at that time was essentially the result of eating yourself up 15lbs or so.

This is not a criticism - just a reality of being a natural trainee with modest genetics for strength training. Past a certain point the gains are incredibly hard won, and they can take years if indeed they come at all. Most of what you read on the internet about the numbers natural trainees should be able to hit is written by, and for, outliers.

It took me 12 years to overhead press my bodyweight.
I am a decent squatter, who has trained religiously for more than 13 years, and I squat 265x5 for arse to grass pause squats with perfect form. The thing is, these two lifts, whilst barely being entry level strong by the standards of those built to move huge weights, do actually make me strong by the standards of any commercial gym I have been in.

All that is to say your numbers are perfectly decent for a guy who isn't really built to be especially strong by elite standards, as most of us aren't. The problem you are facing, to my mind, is the uncomfortable brushing up against the reality that you are never going to be massively strong - an experience that I have also had. Just keep going with real focus on form, making progress where you can; it's really all there is to do.

Post: #4687

Thanks for the advice and encouragement guys. Greatly appreciate it and good to bring me back to reality a bit. To answer a few questions:

@sterling_archer: I made a decision a while ago that I will be changing up my training style once I hit a few strength goals. I plan on sticking to that conviction. I feel that my strength goals are relatively modest, but I'm still not there yet. Once I do get there, I will shift more towards body building and athleticism/functional strength training. That said, I actually like lifting heavy weight. While it is taxing, I don't find it stressful or abusive to my body. I am far more excited for a day where I'm doing 3 x 3 rather than a day when I'm doing 5 x 9.

@Kieran: I'm 6'1" so 200 lbs. looks just fine on me. If I had to guess I'm probably walking around at 15%-18% BF. I don't have very visible abs but do have some muscle definition. As for programming, thanks for the advice about 5/3/1. I know a lot of folks have used it with success I have just never looked into it personally. Just read the T-nation article on it and it seems very simple and straight forward. Maybe I'll give that a try...

@ThriceLazarus: I don't have any glaring injuries that inhibit my lifts, but I will say I believe my legs are a lagging part of my body. My quads, hips, and hamstrings just aren't super strong. I could probably benefit from more hypertrophy-focused training for my lower body.

@H1N1: 100% agreed man and thank you. I know all strength is relative and it's about individual effort not what the guy next to you is doing. I still have personal goals I want to hit, so I'm still going to pursue them as best I can. I definitely know I was not born with all-star genetics when it comes to strength training. I started this journey 3 years ago with a max bench of 225, max deadlift of 315, and max squat of 275. Very modest for a dude who was 28, 6'1", and 185 lbs. Some friends of mine that I work out with were able to pull 500 lbs the first time they touched a barbell in their life, so it's a roll of the dice regarding your starting point.

At 3 years in I'm still a newbie to this journey so to speak so I could be getting a little ahead of myself and not keeping my reality in check.

Post: #4688

I would have agreed with H1N1, but then I read your starting numbers. Those are not modest numbers for a beginner at all and I would say someone with those numbers has great genetics for strength, and something must have gone drastically wrong with your programming to have only gained the strength you have with those kind of starting numbers (not that there's anything wrong with your lifts, but with that starting point I'd expect a lot more). A 225 bench for a beginner is exceptional. Most people start with less than 135.

And don't worry about 500 pound deadlifters first day in the gym, those are the types that go on to become world class, Andy Bolton I think pulled 500 first time.

Post: #4689

It's all opinion I suppose, also what you are exposed to maybe? The gym I lift at is a no fills warehouse gym for power lifters and strongmen, many of which compete and some even on a national level. I'm one of the weakest dudes who works out there. Anyway, for some transparency:

I started lifting in Feb 2016, so almost exactly 3 years ago. I've been more focused and consistent in the past 2 years more specifically.

First bench max - 225
Current bench max - 265

First squat max - 275
Current squat max - 355

First deadlift max - 315
Current deadlift max - 425

Post: #4690

@Stalin: do you train for strength or for looks? are you happy with your physique at the moment and the only thing bugging you is not getting stronger?

Post: #4691

Benching 225 first day in the gym is definitely not the norm believe me. Squatting 275 with good depth first time is pretty good too. Pulling 315 isn't that unusual though

Post: #4692

(01-30-2019 04:25 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  @Stalin: do you train for strength or for looks? are you happy with your physique at the moment and the only thing bugging you is not getting stronger?

I currently train for strength. Aesthetics is secondary at this time. I am not unhappy with my physique.

(01-30-2019 04:31 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Benching 225 first day in the gym is definitely not the norm believe me. Squatting 275 with good depth first time is pretty good too. Pulling 315 isn't that unusual though

I definitely didn't press 225 on the first day! I spent a couple months training with a veteran power lifter to get my technique dialed in, building some foundational strength, and getting proficient with the lifts.

Post: #4693

You seem to be using moving goal posts based on that latest comment, either you were 225 from the start or you should change your starting stat to what it really was and your progress will look a lot more impressive.

The other factor that stands out massively to me is that you've lost weight while training for strength, basically indicating that you're operating at a caloric deficit over the period and not getting any bigger. While size doesn't directly correlate to strength it does have a pretty strong relationship, if you're cutting and trying to add strength you're doing so with one arm tied behind your back.

The reality though is you're 200lb and you were benching 225 from the start you were already doing things in life to give you an incredibly high foundation of strength because your starting position is where most people would aim to be after months of training, starting from such a high foundation is going to limit the potential gains.

End of the day, if you want to get stronger you need to eat more because you're not providing the fuel to the muscles to grow. It wont matter how you train if you maintain the caloric deficit situation.

Also worth noting that the numbers you're putting up are still excellent numbers, you're not a big guy at all but those numbers are impressive.

Post: #4694

(01-31-2019 03:44 AM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  Also worth noting that the numbers you're putting up are still excellent numbers, you're not a big guy at all but those numbers are impressive.

One of the main reasons I stopped with "strength oriented" programs. Gave my soul during the workouts because of high intensity workouts but guys who bench 135 (one of the biggest guys uses weight even below that) and deadlift 250 were much bigger than me and never risked injury (had a lot of close calls). It gave me biggest body dismorphia ever to the point nobody even knew outside my friends that I work out. To clarify, just one of them uses enhancements, but their size is result of high volume workouts body splits. Of course since size is related to strength they could easily tackle big weights, so training for aesthetics does have its merits.

Program I am using is Steve Shaw's Big Brutal and Bold, body part split that has big high intensity low volume exercises together with high volume exercises and even some machines. Powerbuilding is the way to go for me.

Post: #4695

I started lifting 2 years ago (3/week) and I’m still 20-25% below Stalin’s *starting* numbers ...and I seem to be stalling. Of course I’m 50 and I haven’t been eating much.

I agree with Kieran about 5/3/1, you’re supposed to do 9/7/5 reps not 5/3/1, so the name is misleading. I don’t like 5/3/1 because when you fail a weight (which happens all the time to me) you have to wait for ages before trying again. I now use a kind of Texas Method with a Volume day and an Intensity day.

Post: #4696

(01-31-2019 03:44 AM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  You seem to be using moving goal posts based on that latest comment, either you were 225 from the start or you should change your starting stat to what it really was and your progress will look a lot more impressive.

I did not test my 1RM in any of the big 3 lifts until I was 2-3 months into lifting so I can't give you a number from my first day walking in the gym. My first maximum effort attempt on bench press was 225. Whether that was 36 months ago or 34 months ago is pretty negligible.

Anyway I'm not saying I'm weak or disappointed in myself. I am happy with the numbers I've been able to put up so far. I'm just saying that my progress has stalled, what I think, prematurely. There are likely more factors in this than JUST programming of course, but changing things up will not hurt and at the very least will motivate me more with some variety in my training.

Post: #4697

(01-31-2019 11:37 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(01-31-2019 03:44 AM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  You seem to be using moving goal posts based on that latest comment, either you were 225 from the start or you should change your starting stat to what it really was and your progress will look a lot more impressive.

I did not test my 1RM in any of the big 3 lifts until I was 2-3 months into lifting so I can't give you a number from my first day walking in the gym. My first maximum effort attempt on bench press was 225. Whether that was 36 months ago or 34 months ago is pretty negligible.

Anyway I'm not saying I'm weak or disappointed in myself. I am happy with the numbers I've been able to put up so far. I'm just saying that my progress has stalled, what I think, prematurely. There are likely more factors in this than JUST programming of course, but changing things up will not hurt and at the very least will motivate me more with some variety in my training.

Change is always nice and can certainly help when stagnating. I'd certainly look at the diet side of things, even if it's something like adding a protein shake in somewhere to boost the numbers it can make a big difference and flip you from breakeven to gain territory.

Those first few months are actually massive, there is a reason there is specific terms like rookie gains and the like and it's because those first couple of months are when you make the fastest gains.

For instance I got back into the gym roughly 3 months ago now after what was basically 8 years out because of various injuries (and other factors) and my bench for example would be up over 100lbs on 1RM (I don't do 1RM but this conservative given that's roughly how much the weight I'm doing on sets has moved).

Post: #4698

(01-29-2019 01:45 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Feel like my strength progress has stalled. I feel "more efficient" in my lifts, but I'm not putting up any better numbers. Failed a 275 bench few weeks ago, and failed a 365 squat the week after. My maxes are still right where they were almost a year ago. That said, I feel like weights I was moving this time last year and even last summer prior to my surgery are moving better, smoother, faster, etc. I've lost 15 lbs since last summer which has a slight impact on my lifts, but I should still be seeing gains with consistent training.

I have been running IB's program (modified) for almost 2 years now and I think I might want to change up my training program. I might look around for something that interests me, but I also might think about writing my own program. I need something that addresses my weakpoints in the lifts. I'd hate to think at my relatively meager strength level that I need specialized movements to work on weakpoints, but I don't know what else to do. Doing the normal movements with normal accessories is just not pushing me through plateaus anymore it seems.

I took 2 weeks off after testing my bench and squat maxes and just getting back into the gym this week. Deadlifted yesterday and I am technically peaked for my deadlift after yesterday's workout (3 x 1 x 95%) - Those singles were grindy (first one was okay) but that's still not bad considering I haven't touch a single weight in 14 days. Think I might rest a few days then maybe go for a deadlift max then start a whole new training block using the GZCL method with some creative accessories and maybe try to focus more on hypertrophy.

You should cycle off it. Sometimes you just need the physiological edge that comes with a new program. Heck, even I don't run my own program all of the time. The modification (advanced program) I'm working on right now has a much higher degree of exercise selection, and so far it's worked pretty well. Just need to finish a few more cycles before I release it here.

Don't beat yourself up if you're on a plateau, it's completely normal to stall for months at a time as you climb to the higher weights. Progress is never linear. Especially if you're down 15 pounds and hitting the same weights. That's not an easy feat.

Have you considered running a version of AlphaDestiny's Naturally Enhanced? Dude is out there, but some of the guys I lift with rave about his programs.

---

That said, dropping in here because I've switched to lifting in the mornings before work. What are y'alls thoughts about when to lift? I used to be an adamant 7PM lifter but the realities of the grind have made that less enjoyable.

Post: #4699

(02-01-2019 07:52 AM)Investment Bro Wrote:  That said, dropping in here because I've switched to lifting in the mornings before work. What are y'alls thoughts about when to lift? I used to be an adamant 7PM lifter but the realities of the grind have made that less enjoyable.

I've always been an AM lifter. I love the feeling of finishing a workout and knowing I'm done. No need to plan the rest of the day around a gym visit.

From experimentation I know I'm not as flexible and warm compared to when I train later in the day, but sensible warmups and listening to my body's feedback have let me avoid any injuries other than the usual ego checks.

If you worry about motivation for going early, pack your bag and lay out your clothes the night before. Shower before bed, then when the alarm goes off you can be dressed and out the door before you're fully awake.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #4700

(02-01-2019 07:52 AM)Investment Bro Wrote:  You should cycle off it. Sometimes you just need the physiological edge that comes with a new program. Heck, even I don't run my own program all of the time. The modification (advanced program) I'm working on right now has a much higher degree of exercise selection, and so far it's worked pretty well. Just need to finish a few more cycles before I release it here.

Don't beat yourself up if you're on a plateau, it's completely normal to stall for months at a time as you climb to the higher weights. Progress is never linear. Especially if you're down 15 pounds and hitting the same weights. That's not an easy feat.

Have you considered running a version of AlphaDestiny's Naturally Enhanced? Dude is out there, but some of the guys I lift with rave about his programs.

Thanks man, needed to hear that. I also agree about getting that edge with a nw programming regiment. Sometimes just something to re-stimulate you is all you need. There's a few programs I been looking at haven't picked one yet so maybe I'll take a look at his too. Is it free? I've looked at 531 which I worry about it's lack of volume/intensity, but also been thinking about GZCL or one of Cody's programs, or The Bridge by Barbell Medicine.

Looking forward to seeing that advanced program when you get it polished up!

(02-01-2019 07:52 AM)Investment Bro Wrote:  That said, dropping in here because I've switched to lifting in the mornings before work. What are y'alls thoughts about when to lift? I used to be an adamant 7PM lifter but the realities of the grind have made that less enjoyable.

From a biological perspective, working out in the evening (roughly 8 hours after you wakeup) is best as your body is at peak mental and physical energy/performance. This is based off of circadian rhythm and assuming you go to bed and wake up at "normal" times.

I always work out in the evening, but sometimes in the mid-afternoon depending on my schedule.