Post: #51

(11-21-2014 09:42 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Quote:Frequently, I have joked around with guys in the salsa dance scene about this idea of girls "graduating", and really some girls do not want to graduate, and then these non-graduating girls create drama in the salsa scene.

JJG, el professor de salsa. Giving salsa slut certification since 2000. Lol!!!

hahahaha... Great idea for a business card!!!!

Post: #52

Just waiting for an update from Black and White Spade... hahahahaha

Post: #53

Each time I read a thread about meeting women via a group activity, I wander how people manage to get something out of it.

In a sport club, where hundreds of potential women could come, changing every week, I get it.
In a class room, where nearly the same students come each week, I don't.
For example, there are 5 women in my Krav Maga lessons.
Subscribing 1 whole year, to talk to 5 women, seems to me unproductive.
I could just go to a crowded place and talk to 10 in a day.

Unless the context really helps to lay?

Post: #54

(12-03-2014 08:12 AM)Latan Wrote:  Each time I read a thread about meeting women via a group activity, I wander how people manage to get something out of it.

In a sport club, where hundreds of potential women could come, changing every week, I get it.
In a class room, where nearly the same students come each week, I don't.
For example, there are 5 women in my Krav Maga lessons.
Subscribing 1 whole year, to talk to 5 women, seems to me unproductive.
I could just go to a crowded place and talk to 10 in a day.

Unless the context really helps to lay?

I believe that you make valid observations, Latan.

Nonetheless, it seems that we would do various injustices to the concept of meeting girls in group activities if we were to lump all activities together or maybe even attempt to group them too much.

Personally, I believe that each kind of group activities has its own particular dynamics, and likely many guys in this thread and in other dance threads have already asserted that dancing is NOT necessarily any walk in the park in order to figure out how to convert dancing into bangs or even to otherwise be able to connect with women outside of the dance scene.

Some guys have even gone so far as to assert that the dance scene is worse for attempting to get bangs in various manners because there exist various social circle stigmas and likely guys have to figure out ways to target and/or strategize how to bang girls in the salsa scene.

I have had some luck banging girls, but in no way would I call myself an expert, and surely I will concede that there are some very major obstacles involved in becoming somewhat established in the salsa scene because being labelled as a player seems to have a fairly high level stigma - and can cost a variety of bang potentiality if others perceive a guy as a player.

Some guys may be able to get more bangs by being "discrete," and sometimes I have attempted such discreteness, but even then discreteness does NOT remove one from potentially encountering various drama episodes between girls .. and then I frequently will find it problematic if I become too attached to a girl and then see her with another guy.

So, I guess part of my point is that there can be a variety of drama in the dance scene and juggling of logistics and various failures. In that regard, I personally believe that in the salsa scene it is preferable that guys also like dancing because frequently, guys may be left high and dry in the bang category (especially if the guy is wanting to have a variety of bangs in the dance studios scene).

Post: #55

(12-03-2014 12:08 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Just waiting for an update from Black and White Spade... hahahahaha

Your wish is granted, brother!

Okay, so I've been going out to a few different Salsa/Bachata clubs over the past 5 weeks--just once a week, although this weekend I went to 2 places Saturday and Sunday night. I've continued the once a week private Salsa lessons and have also started a group Bachata class once a week.

The Progress:

-I'm definitely in the zone now. I'm pulling 7-10 girls a night on average, with about a 90% success rate when I ask a girl to dance. I've only been rejected a handful of times, I just move on and quickly find another to ask, it's no issue for me to find several girls to dance with at these places. I'm getting good at applying the 3-second-rule and am getting pretty balls-y, perhaps too balls-y at this point, haha.

-My private instructor is really good, she's really helping me to establish a great, technically-accurate foundation. My basic steps, body posture, basic 3-turn combos and cross-bodies are getting pretty clean and I just started practicing a cross-body turn/twirl last night that I found on youtube.

-I've made a few friends in the scene and at my studio, a couple of wingmen and few of the girls are familiar w/ me including the instructors, who are all pretty cool.

-Bachata classes are fun, I can at least have a few bachata dances when I go out now, but honestly I'm bombarded, the footwork is elegant and easier than Salsa, but the handwork is complicated. I'm focusing more of my attention on stepping up my Salsa for now.


Next Steps/Needed Improvement:

-I still don't really have the feel of the music!!! Seriously, I still suck at picking out the 1 beat and then holding a rhythm, especially on the slower, groovier salsa/jazz numbers! 50% of the time I can't really get on or stay on beat, which is obviously a major problem. I've been listening/practicing finding beats, tried some songs at my last private with my instructor. I listen for the bass lines or cow bells, but even those don't always accurately tell the beat. Salsa is nothing like the rock, country, rockabilly, blues, and r&b that I've played/listened to where you have an obvious beat or base loop that you can pick up on.

-I need to start adding the cooler turns and twists into my arsenal. I've been looking at youtube videos and just watching other leads when I go out. The privates have been great for my foundation, they'll be stopping soon as I can't afford to be doing them all the time. I want to get back into a more intermediate group class to start learning more moves and practicing with similar-level dancers.

-Right now, I'm bouncing around a few venues where they offer a free lesson to start the night and have a good mix of beginners, intermediates and pros. There are more venues that I plan to hit up that I haven't had a chance to yet. I grab the beginners, but honestly they're often not the best practice for me if they know nothing. I learn more with intermediates and sometimes the pros/instructors are helpful, although some of them start backleading and then I don't learn too much. I'm still somewhat intimidated by the pros and the hottest ones for sure, nonetheless I've had the guts to ask some of them and dance. Sometimes they're friendly and patient, sometimes they're bored, sometimes they backlead! I feel a mix of excitement, encouragement and intimidation when I've been out, but overall I've been leaving at the end of the night feeling pretty satisfied and with a few new tid bits to keep in mind and apply next time.

So, there it is. I'm doing Salsa. And a little Bachata. I'm pretty basic and still can't quite consistently find the rhythm, but I'm gutsy about asking all sorts of women onto the floor and my motions are getting much cleaner and more confident.

Post: #56

Nice work BWS !
Glad you are enjoying salsa and bachata. Your story is similar to mine - i have been full throttle on the lessons - starting to see results on and off the dance floor. I have been cracking on the new blood in the scene - they are keen to get in the mainsream. Are you getting any digits from more established dancers? I find bringing a dance partner to socials increases my MV ....

Post: #57

(12-16-2014 09:47 PM)El_gato Wrote:  Nice work BWS !
Glad you are enjoying salsa and bachata. Your story is similar to mine - i have been full throttle on the lessons - starting to see results on and off the dance floor. I have been cracking on the new blood in the scene - they are keen to get in the mainsream. Are you getting any digits from more established dancers? I find bringing a dance partner to socials increases my MV ....

I'm not really pursuing any of the girls right now, so no digits, dates, or such. I'm just working hard on the task and trying to just have fun and make some friends/contacts through the scene, breaking in socially and building a positive reputation at the studio I'm taking my lessons at. I think you really have to get at least half-way decent with the dancing before you can really start to pull girls from a partner dancing scene. I'm still a newb so I really can't establish frame right now. I agree with JJG that once one gets competent with the task, one can get after the newer girls to the scene. I actually have gotten IOIs from a few girls at the free lessons and group lessons I've been to, but I've temporarily sworn off complicating matters and pursuing girls in the scene while simultaneously trying to learn this challenging new hobby. Are you making good headway with the newbies?

I also brought a date from outside the scene (never danced Salsa in her life) to one dance social. I was only a month into taking lessons so we just pranced around the floor together most of the night, didn't really notice whether it drew the attention of the other females, but like anywhere else in life, I'm sure a little arm candy will increase your value in Salsa clubs as well.

Post: #58

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

(12-03-2014 12:08 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Just waiting for an update from Black and White Spade... hahahahaha

Your wish is granted, brother!

hahahahaha... probably a few of us were anticipating an update... so thanks for that.

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  Okay, so I've been going out to a few different Salsa/Bachata clubs over the past 5 weeks--just once a week, although this weekend I went to 2 places Saturday and Sunday night. I've continued the once a week private Salsa lessons and have also started a group Bachata class once a week.

Seems like you have enough activity in there in order to have the potential for improvement.. and maybe each of us have our proclivities when it comes to whether we are merely maintaining or expanding in our abilities. As you have mentioned, dance can be very difficult to add new movements because sometimes your mind is directing, but your body is just NOT cooperating... accordingly, we need a considerable amount of repetition and even conscious reinforcement of the repetition - almost to the point that some of the movements becomes second nature. Yes, I am referring to the muscle memory concept, but there seems to be more going on than that, including consciously performing various moves over and over and over.

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  The Progress:

-I'm definitely in the zone now. I'm pulling 7-10 girls a night on average, with about a 90% success rate when I ask a girl to dance. I've only been rejected a handful of times, I just move on and quickly find another to ask, it's no issue for me to find several girls to dance with at these places. I'm getting good at applying the 3-second-rule and am getting pretty balls-y, perhaps too balls-y at this point, haha.

Usually guys in this forum would use the term "pulling" to refer to either banging girls or getting them to change venues with you... You seem to be referring to "pulling" as getting girls to dance with you?

Both girls and guys engage in various kinds of timing and strategic placement of themselves in order to be in a position to ask or to be asked to dance. I generally attempt to put myself in the proximate area next to girls that I want to ask between songs, and usually you do need to catch them right at the beginning of the song in order to get the ones that are more willing to dance... or even to get dances with the more sought after girls.

You may find, however, with the passage of time, that some venues have better turn over in girls than others, and sometimes mixing up venues can serve better for these purposes because you may begin to run out of your kind of target girls at some venues.

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  -My private instructor is really good, she's really helping me to establish a great, technically-accurate foundation. My basic steps, body posture, basic 3-turn combos and cross-bodies are getting pretty clean and I just started practicing a cross-body turn/twirl last night that I found on youtube.

Ultimately, probably it is most important if you feel that you are benefiting from your time and money spent in that direction.

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  -I've made a few friends in the scene and at my studio, a couple of wingmen and few of the girls are familiar w/ me including the instructors, who are all pretty cool.

-Bachata classes are fun, I can at least have a few bachata dances when I go out now, but honestly I'm bombarded, the footwork is elegant and easier than Salsa, but the handwork is complicated. I'm focusing more of my attention on stepping up my Salsa for now.

Sometimes instructors will teach steps that just do NOT seem leadable - especially at your current level of dance abilities; however, frequently, if you continue to practice and improve your lead, you will figure out ways to lead moves that initially seemed unleadable. Sometimes I will take moves that are fairly complicated and lead them in parts and create my own variations of them so that I can lead variations of the move while striving to advance my own repertoire of dance moves.

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  Next Steps/Needed Improvement:

-I still don't really have the feel of the music!!! Seriously, I still suck at picking out the 1 beat and then holding a rhythm, especially on the slower, groovier salsa/jazz numbers! 50% of the time I can't really get on or stay on beat, which is obviously a major problem. I've been listening/practicing finding beats, tried some songs at my last private with my instructor. I listen for the bass lines or cow bells, but even those don't always accurately tell the beat. Salsa is nothing like the rock, country, rockabilly, blues, and r&b that I've played/listened to where you have an obvious beat or base loop that you can pick up on.

Probably, I already mentioned this before, but I am a real stickler for attempting to follow the beat properly, and I have been working on this for my more than 12 years of dancing.

Certainly, some songs are easier to find the beat than others, and one thing is finding the beat and another thing is attempting to get your body to move to the beat that you have identified with the girl's cooperation. Sometimes, also the girl will throw a guy off of the beat, so a guy needs to find various ways to transition back into the beat in a comfortable and smooth manner when the girl has thrown him off of the beat.

Also, sometimes the song does NOT seem to cooperate, and the beat will seemingly switch in various parts of the song. Personally, I incorporate quite a few cradles in my dance repertoire to stop the girl and then to switch the beat, and sometimes I may also turn the girl several times in order to get back on beat. Alternatively, I may turn myself several times (no sissy) to get back on beat. Actually, a majority of the guys do NOT turn very much in their salsa style, but I tend to incorporate a lot of my own turns into my dancing style. Oh well, turning has become a kind of niche of mine...

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  -I need to start adding the cooler turns and twists into my arsenal. I've been looking at youtube videos and just watching other leads when I go out. The privates have been great for my foundation, they'll be stopping soon as I can't afford to be doing them all the time. I want to get back into a more intermediate group class to start learning more moves and practicing with similar-level dancers.

Yep... you gotta be careful with instruction overload... and get out their and practice and apply what you have learned.. If you do not practice and repeat what you have learned, then it will NOT sink in.

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  -Right now, I'm bouncing around a few venues where they offer a free lesson to start the night and have a good mix of beginners, intermediates and pros. There are more venues that I plan to hit up that I haven't had a chance to yet. I grab the beginners, but honestly they're often not the best practice for me if they know nothing. I learn more with intermediates and sometimes the pros/instructors are helpful, although some of them start backleading and then I don't learn too much. I'm still somewhat intimidated by the pros and the hottest ones for sure, nonetheless I've had the guts to ask some of them and dance. Sometimes they're friendly and patient, sometimes they're bored, sometimes they backlead! I feel a mix of excitement, encouragement and intimidation when I've been out, but overall I've been leaving at the end of the night feeling pretty satisfied and with a few new tid bits to keep in mind and apply next time.

You and I may have different learning styles and/or preferences, because I certainly prefer beginners for learning and even honing my own style(s). The more advanced the girl, the quicker she will become bored with my moves, and if you are a beginner yourself, then you are stuck with only beginners that may be wowed by your moves... or have enough patience to actually follow.

I am also fairly strict to perform moves to communicate to the girls that they need to follow me.. some of the more advanced dancers can become a bit stubborn in regard to following some moves and some aspects of my lead....

(12-15-2014 07:31 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  So, there it is. I'm doing Salsa. And a little Bachata. I'm pretty basic and still can't quite consistently find the rhythm, but I'm gutsy about asking all sorts of women onto the floor and my motions are getting much cleaner and more confident.

I am glad to see that you are working on these areas, and that you have a pretty decent incorporation of your dance plans into your weekly activities.... Also, you likely realize that guys can dance for years and years and still find a variety of ways to improve dance techniques and moves.

Post: #59

(12-16-2014 10:38 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 09:47 PM)El_gato Wrote:  Nice work BWS !
Glad you are enjoying salsa and bachata. Your story is similar to mine - i have been full throttle on the lessons - starting to see results on and off the dance floor. I have been cracking on the new blood in the scene - they are keen to get in the mainsream. Are you getting any digits from more established dancers? I find bringing a dance partner to socials increases my MV ....

I'm not really pursuing any of the girls right now, so no digits, dates, or such. I'm just working hard on the task and trying to just have fun and make some friends/contacts through the scene, breaking in socially and building a positive reputation at the studio I'm taking my lessons at.

Personally, I think that you should think of ways to possibly pick up on some of the girls while you are learning. Surely, learning can be more interesting while having a play thing, even though it may be a little stressful and even though you maybe be spending time improving upon yourself. I would argue that some girls will benefit you in this regard, and some of them even want to just "practice" with beginners.

(12-16-2014 10:38 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  I think you really have to get at least half-way decent with the dancing before you can really start to pull girls from a partner dancing scene. I'm still a newb so I really can't establish frame right now. I agree with JJG that once one gets competent with the task, one can get after the newer girls to the scene.

Personally, I believe that there are different kinds of girls in the dance scene, and some of the girls really want to dance and or be led by more advanced dancers - however, some girls are there just to meet guys and they actually prefer the more beginner guys. These days sometimes I scare away the more beginner and intermediate girls, even when I am trying to dumb down my dance moves they get intimidated and they are looking for less advanced dancers.

(12-16-2014 10:38 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  I actually have gotten IOIs from a few girls at the free lessons and group lessons I've been to, but I've temporarily sworn off complicating matters and pursuing girls in the scene while simultaneously trying to learn this challenging new hobby. Are you making good headway with the newbies?

Sometimes you may want to get the digits for in the future and to build your contacts with various girls, even if you do NOT want to get involved with them at the moment.

I have gone through periods in which I did NOT get digits from girls, and then sometimes I will regret that I was NOT able to preserve that contact.. because I fall out of contact with the girl... and don't see her in the scene anymore.

(12-16-2014 10:38 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  I also brought a date from outside the scene (never danced Salsa in her life) to one dance social. I was only a month into taking lessons so we just pranced around the floor together most of the night, didn't really notice whether it drew the attention of the other females, but like anywhere else in life, I'm sure a little arm candy will increase your value in Salsa clubs as well.

Agreed. Good to bring outsiders from time to time, increases your perceived value.

Post: #60

Good comments JJG!
I didn't invite my usual bait dance partner to the social last night and had a lot more fun. I enjoyed lone wolfing again:
1. Tried a free kizomba class. Lots of interesting woman. Also the dance is very physical - chest to chest. I think babes in that scene have a higher chance of being game for more.
2. Joined the salsa social after and found more IOI from black and asian girls. Seems that the white girls like variety too but not your white el gato.
3. Danced with asian girl that i haven't seen in a while. I jumped at the opportunity to get her digits - texted her 24 after and go an IOI response to go out dancing .
4. Every time i go out dancing - i always plan to get a least one phone number - before going out i visualize having fun, getting an IOI, and reherse asking for the number . I don't always pull it off but ask rate is higher.
5. Always gage the IOI - eye contact, getting a compliment, repeat dances, being asked to dance.... Need to manage reputation risk in the salsa community
6. Getting out to socials often helps you understand the social dynamics - who is established or jaded or demanding and who is new - intermediate - out for fun and DTF
Best
El gato

Post: #61

Hello men!

So, I'm back in once-a-week dance class, starting to learn the more twirling cross-bodies, still often struggling with establishing rhythm on some of the songs, but that's getting better also. I've been going out quite a bit, 3 times this week, practicing with more girls. Danced with 2 skilled hotties at a venue just the other night, hung in there fairly well with one of them and I could tell that she was getting excited when I sucessfully executed the cooler twirling crosses on her! The other one, I quickly lost and could not find the rhythm in the song, but she was a good sport and smiled and also seemed pleased when I aggresively gave her the hammer twirls, walk-throughs, and side steps. My confidence is rising and the intimidating feeling is fading with each new move I learn and each time I go out dancing.

So. As I've mentioned, I have received IOIs from a few girls. Now that I'm getting closer to feeling some comfort, competence with the dancing, I'd like to figure out how to move on to gaming women in the scene.

I've experienced that it's better to err towards the younger ladies and fairly newer dancers. The older women are often really good dancers and are the ones who are most likely to reject, get bored, or backlead me, which I hate haha! So, I'm trying to stick to younger (20s-30s) girls and bouncing to different venues where they start with a free lesson. The socials at the studio I take classes at are a pretty good environment too.

I often get positive vibes from the younger girls, especially if they're new/new-ish to the scene. A few have given clear IOIs, and some are just pretty excited that I asked them for a dance, smile and giggle a little while we dance, and they thank me afterwards. I chat a little with them during and after the dance, and a few times I've later came back and pulled them out for a second dance. It definitely shows male leadership as they seem to fall in line and be impressed! Where do you go after that with these girls?? Often these new-to-the-scene girls roll in groups, sometimes with a few other girls or even what looks like maybe a double-date, or co-ed circle of some sort. It's hard to isolate. Have you guys experienced this? Do you have any tactics that work well for isolating these girls, maybe just long enough to get digits, or make a genuine connection? I assume approaching, isolating, closing or pulling girls in the Salsa scene is not too different from night game in general? I've never really been a big nightlife guy until now; I've always met women, dates through day interactions or online dating. What tactics/strategies do you recommend for a male at my level to step up the communication and start getting numbers/dates, from these women in the Salsa venues and classes?

Post: #62

Blacknwhitespade, unfortunately I cannot help you with your question about pulling women from the Salsa scene but I'm happy this topic has opened up. Just wanted to share a bit of my background on dance game. Up until recently I had been somewhat jealous of guys who could dance well yet did not do much about it. I thought that it was enough for me to just grind a bit in a club and survive off a few break-dancing classes I took in college. Then pull Michael Jackson's moonwalk to attract the odd drunk girl. I always thought for some reason that dance studio's were full of wimpy guys, too expensive and elitist to go in there and that even "beginner" classes were mostly composed of dancers who were born with good rhythm and had been dancing for a while.

As I've gotten older (mid 30's) it's been more and more of a challenge to meet women at dance clubs or parties via dance game so finally I decided to give it a try and sign up for some dance classes via this site. Since I prefer rock/blues/disco music and don't care for Spanish I ended up signing up for swing-dancing lessons in Washington, DC area. I'm not fond of my city for game and usually no matter the event am met by bad ratios but what I saw in dance studio's and dance socials totally surprised me. While swing dance is not the best for meeting 20s/30s women (it tends to attract an older crowd and many many couples) no matter what the event has been there are usually more women than guys and they all seem friendly (except for some female dancers who annoy me by trying to correct my moves and lead...as a beginner I should not mind but the man is supposed to lead).

So far I have done 5 weeks of beginner classes at two dance studios and have also been to 2 dance social's with more "boot-camp" type classes at those however the learning curve seems very high. Do any of you guys have experience with Swing dancing and if so how long did it take you to become proficient whereby you could dance at a club and not run out of moves after a few minutes?

For me learning so far has been relatively slow and I understand swing is harder than some other dances due to the keeping of the count, 6-step, 8-step, and the emphasis on footwork but I am trying to not give up. Another problem I am now facing is lack of regular partners, I had to force myself to buy a DVD from the dance studio where I train but without a partner just learning the steps is slow going and boring. How do you guys handle this? I am intimidated to go to some of the more formal "big-band" dances as just about everyone seems to know more than one variant of swing (jitterbug, Balboa, Lindyhop, and so on). Any ideas if I should continue concentrating on just one style of swing and continue practicing the techniques to get the steps and timing just right or whether I can start improvising more by taking classes for the other styles?

Post: #63

Coming from a Latin dance perspective, I've been learning that it's best to concentrate on 1 style, build a good foundation and then own what you know until you learn more. I have a feeling the same general tips apply to Swing as well...

Keys that I've figured out:

1. Don't over-load yourself with formal instruction. Group class is great and you meet same-level dancers, but it's all for naught if you're not going out and applying what you're learning in class/pvt lessons every week.

2. Focus on 1 style. I'm focusing on Salsa, had a few Bachata classes, but was feeling overwhelmed with instruction, so I'm sticking to Salsa for now. I at least have some basic bachata moves now and can pick it up later. Own what you know, practice, practice, practice, as you learn more moves. Perhaps getting good at one style of Swing will then make learning the other swing styles a breeze later.

3. Build momentum. When you get to the club, don't stand around and study the dancers too much. Dive in quickly, persist and get on a roll. Once you dance with one girl, quickly grab another, then another, etc... If I let 3-4 songs go by, I get cold and get approach anxiety again.

4. Persist, even when it feels competitive. Don't be shy to ask a few of the pros for a dance, even if you pale in comparison and they act disappointed or backlead you, this is part of the process of learning where you're at and helping you to break the ice. Plus, the reality is, many of these girls actually aren't that good, they just dance with great leads who make them look good.

5. That said, err towards the beginner/intermediate dancers. Dance with a few advanced people to challenge your boundaries, but try to meet up with your classmates at socials or seek out the newer girls. They're usually young and standing off to the side, stoically watching. These are your droids. These are the girls you can develop your male leadership skills with and develop your own combo/style with.

Post: #64

(01-30-2015 06:49 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  Hello men!

So, I'm back in once-a-week dance class, starting to learn the more twirling cross-bodies, still often struggling with establishing rhythm on some of the songs, but that's getting better also. I've been going out quite a bit, 3 times this week, practicing with more girls. Danced with 2 skilled hotties at a venue just the other night, hung in there fairly well with one of them and I could tell that she was getting excited when I sucessfully executed the cooler twirling crosses on her! The other one, I quickly lost and could not find the rhythm in the song, but she was a good sport and smiled and also seemed pleased when I aggresively gave her the hammer twirls, walk-throughs, and side steps. My confidence is rising and the intimidating feeling is fading with each new move I learn and each time I go out dancing.

So. As I've mentioned, I have received IOIs from a few girls. Now that I'm getting closer to feeling some comfort, competence with the dancing, I'd like to figure out how to move on to gaming women in the scene.

I've experienced that it's better to err towards the younger ladies and fairly newer dancers. The older women are often really good dancers and are the ones who are most likely to reject, get bored, or backlead me, which I hate haha! So, I'm trying to stick to younger (20s-30s) girls and bouncing to different venues where they start with a free lesson. The socials at the studio I take classes at are a pretty good environment too.

I think that for many of the reasons that you listed, there can be a lot of problems with attempting to game women who are older or experienced with the dance scene. So, for a lot of the reasons that you already indicated, it is good to focus on gaming the younger ones and the newer dancers to the scene.

Nonetheless, I have found it good for my own style to NOT burn too many bridges with the older and/or experienced dancers, and in that regard, it can be very helpful to dance with older (experienced) dancers because sometimes they can make you look very good when you are focusing on another target. Girls will frequently watch the scene and the target sees that you are liked in the community and other girls want to dance with you, and she does NOT always realize that you are targeting her.. until a bit later and after you have built some comfort with her and to show that you are accepted and/or trusted in the dance scene (this can be a negative also, so there can be some advantages to NOT being so well known in the salsa dance scene and guys have to take advantage of whatever is there current status in the scene to work it towards their benefit).

(01-30-2015 06:49 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  I often get positive vibes from the younger girls, especially if they're new/new-ish to the scene. A few have given clear IOIs, and some are just pretty excited that I asked them for a dance, smile and giggle a little while we dance, and they thank me afterwards. I chat a little with them during and after the dance, and a few times I've later came back and pulled them out for a second dance. It definitely shows male leadership as they seem to fall in line and be impressed! Where do you go after that with these girls??

I believe that you can invite them to venues outside of salsa, and find various interests that they may have that are similar to yours. Girls will frequently show when they are interested by dropping little clues to let you know that they want to be separated from the scene. You can facilitate this process, somewhat by dropping various hints about other activities to see whether the girls are interested. Since I only have so much time in any given week, I frequently will try to suggest activities to spend with girls that interest me, and to see if the girl wants to join with me... can be eating or attending certain events that you already plan to attend.

(01-30-2015 06:49 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  Often these new-to-the-scene girls roll in groups, sometimes with a few other girls or even what looks like maybe a double-date, or co-ed circle of some sort. It's hard to isolate. Have you guys experienced this? Do you have any tactics that work well for isolating these girls, maybe just long enough to get digits, or make a genuine connection?

Yes!!!! I have definitely experienced problems isolating, and sometimes, with some girls, it would be helpful to have a wingman if you can get the wingman guy to agree NOT to tread on your territory. A problem that I have had in the past with wingmen is the a developing competition over target girls (which can cause various tensions). If there are ways to minimize competition and to achieve some agreement(s) with the wingman, then wingmen could be helpful to isolate when some of these seemingly good target girls are traveling in groups.

(01-30-2015 06:49 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  I assume approaching, isolating, closing or pulling girls in the Salsa scene is not too different from night game in general? I've never really been a big nightlife guy until now; I've always met women, dates through day interactions or online dating. What tactics/strategies do you recommend for a male at my level to step up the communication and start getting numbers/dates, from these women in the Salsa venues and classes?

Usually, I do NOT expect to be able to isolate girls the first night that I meet with them if they are traveling in groups, so my strategy has been with getting numbers or just figuring out ways to meet these girls again on other nights, in that same venue or possibly in other dance venues (or related events). In that regard, you can ask them about other venues that they may be inclined to attend and attempt to meet them in other venues or to get them to consider attending when they otherwise would not have attended.

I do NOT really consider salsa scene to be the same as regular nightclubbing, even though you can go to venues that have that regular nightclubbing type vibe. Venues vary from city to city, too. Some venues are more clubby and other venues are more dance studio like.

In the beginning, guys will be continuing to search out various venues and vibes in his area (and if traveling in other areas, as well) and after frequenting events, will probably take a liking to some kinds of venues as preferable over others. Sometimes there will be more younger or older women at certain venues and there definitely seem to be trade-offs. On most occasions, I prefer to have a comfortable dance studio type scene or some kind of a hybrid rather than a strict nightclubby type scene.

Since salsa dancing has some social circle elements, there can be a certain advantages to being fairly new to the scene. However, after guys have been in the dance scene for several years, the dynamics change... with being known by so many people in the dance scene. In that regard, frequently, guys need to attempt to take advantage of whatever circumstances that he has at the moment, because sometimes, even being better known in the salsa dance scene is not going to resolve some of the problems of consistently meeting good target women, and being more experienced and well known in the dance scene creates different kinds of obstacles...that are NOT always to the benefit of the guy to be able to sneak away with some target girl.

Post: #65

@ Triple G: I've been involved w/the DC swing scene too for the past 7 yrs. And it's pretty intimidating when first starting out, but after 3-4 yrs. (and the first year w/lots of private lessons) it becomes very natural and the compliments start flowing. So it's def. a cool hobby, but the quality of women is very lacking, there seem to be lots of social circle/cliques, and generally, the local scene has been dying out. I've closed a limited # of chicks w/the simple time-bridge, telling them about other swing venues and then going for the digits. But what's been even more effective was meeting chicks outside the dance community and then using that as a reason to get together, sometimes escalating into sleepovers, lays, etc. Nowadays, country dancing seems to be attracting waaay more hotties, and salsa may have potential. But the music isn't as enjoyable, and I'm not interested in spending years learning a brand new dance style. Shoot me a PM if you have questions or need some advice though?!

Post: #66

Hey guys,

In March I'll start my first bachata/salsa lessons. My plan is not really to bang the girls there, even though I know from sources that many go there to meet guys, especially the not so hot ones, but what I'm trying to do is:

Plan A(the best):
1. Make friends girls that have hot friends and which like to party a bit
2. Ask the new (girl)friends to get out clubbing in weekends with their hot friends, but before that to join me and my friends for a pre-drink on some apartment/venue. I've done that before(closing my hb8 ex and her friend) and works pretty well. You are drinking, playing some social drinking games, you have so much time to game your target and in the club you escalate and bang her home,
This way I don't bang the girl in my dancing class so socially I won't be affected too much. The issue is to find a girl that accepts to bring her friends and go out, many girls already have a group(with boys) they go out on weekends.

Plan B:
1. Make some (guy)friends and reach their social group. Making sure that I found the type doesn't get jealous of me banging girls from his social circle
2. Getting out with them and their girls. What I like about this approach is that most guys in dancing class are there to meet women, not many good looking, and don't know game. I also don't know much, but if I can help them with some basic advice(but not appear as arrogant player) it might be easy to tap into his social circle, especially if he likes a girl there and wants me there for advice(of course, assuring him I won't hit on his crush).


What do you think about this approach?
Basically social circle game is the one you can get the best quality if you are an average looking guy.

Post: #67

(02-23-2015 06:28 AM)bewater Wrote:  1. Make friends girls that have hot friends and which like to party a bit
2. Ask the new (girl)friends to get out clubbing in weekends with their hot friends, but before that to join me and my friends for a pre-drink on some apartment/venue.

I can see this working, though still it won't be the best method for effort spent. Girls in salsa are 99% attention whores. Flaking is on galactic warp-speed. Try it out and see how that works.

Quote:Plan B:
1. Make some (guy)friends and reach their social group. Making sure that I found the type doesn't get jealous of me banging girls from his social circle
2. Getting out with them and their girls. What I like about this approach is that most guys in dancing class are there to meet women, not many good looking, and don't know game. I also don't know much, but if I can help them with some basic advice(but not appear as arrogant player) it might be easy to tap into his social circle, especially if he likes a girl there and wants me there for advice(of course, assuring him I won't hit on his crush).

Yeah good luck with that. Guys in salsa class are bitches. They automatically see you as competition and trying to go through the back door won't work. Even your bros can cockblock you sometimes. What makes you think some guys who by default will have to compete with you for dance partners, will be useful to you?

Not to mention that your alliance of convenience will never mean shit because there will always be a guy who is the dance god in a venue who gets to dance with all the girls. The good news is that sometimes that guy actually don't get laid, but he blocks access to pussy. In salsa if you want to get laid you need to have air-tight isolation skills and be able to impress the girls.

What works for me is to be the "knows everyone but not friend with anyone" approach. In salsa you have to roll solo, but being on acquaintance level with people will give you a lot of social proof and connections. I find that people tend to be nicer with strangers who are very friendly.

@blackandwhite: to answer your questions on isolation and getting numbers:

Getting numbers in salsa DOESN"T MEAN JACK SHIT. You still have to do it but you will know what I'm talking about. I can get the number of all the girls I danced with if I want (and that actually happened) None of those will lead anywhere. Girls in salsa love giving numbers to guys and plus, if you hit it with the "let's go dancing sometimes. What's your number?" it's almost fail safe. Working through those numbers is a fucking chore though.

Isolation is key and is also difficult due to the fact that you switch partners all the time. I hate it when I'm having awesome conversation with a girl and a guy comes in and ask for a dance. Flow broken. Isolation skills are worth a library. Do a search on here and read all you can.

Anyway, this is what works for me:

-Dance with her well and ramp up the sexual stuff a little bit.
-Small talk while running game. Lead the convo towards "I know some excellent dance place. Let's go sometimes"
-Get the number, but continue chatting to her for about a min. Then excuse yourself and go dance with another girl right in front of her. Jealousy/DHV
-Ask her for another dance and continue ramping up your escalation. If you sense that she is into it, suggest a venue change or head outside for some air, where you can game her properly. If that goes well, try to venue change her home.
-Set up date through phone.

**sometimes girls will be pretty forward "let's go out dancing sometimes" In this case strike HARD and FAST. She is already DTF but in salsa she meets tons of new cocks so strike when the iron is hot**

DO NOT be the guy that every girl want to dance with but no girl wants to fuck. I can't explain this but maybe JJG can.

Dance skills are overrated if you are only into gaming. You just need to impress the girls and even intermediate dancers are easy to impress. I'm sometimes off-beat but I don't give a damn and have a strong, clear lead so girls never have a problem with me, EXCEPT the pro dancers, but if you want to game those you need another game, not dance game.

IOI: you will get a lot of IOI in salsa due to the sexual nature of the dance. That said, better to miss a shot than not taking it in the first place. Act on every IOI you receive by making sure that she gives you even more.

IOI AFTER DANCE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN DURING DANCE. I've had girls caressed her boobs against my face, holding eye contact "kiss me" literally half an inch to my face, rubbing herself against my crotch, only to leave without a backward glance as soon as the song finishes.

However, girls in salsa have invented a secret mating signal and I've caught on it, so listen up children

If after the song finishes, as you let go of her hand, she:

1. squeeze it hard and don't let go immediately
2. let her fingers run across your arm and caress your arm as you let go (fuck I hate it when girls I don't like do this to me)
3. stay in front of you or walk in your direction. This is why as a song finishes, don't turn away too quickly. See her reaction

All of those are good solid IOIs. You should ask her to dance another song and ramp up your game.

I've never gone on a date/bang a girl in salsa without one or many of those above signs.

Best case scenario: you get a girl out to a dance date with you.

If you did all of the above then run tight text/phone game, you will get girls on date. I recently went on one with a solid 8 Georgian model but I fucked it up.

Take her to the dance venue that you have on lock down. Or at least familiar with. Take care of logistics. As you hit the bar dance one or two songs. Then go grab a drink. This is the precious few minutes where you spit game and set the sexual/fun tone for the whole night. Once the alcohol set in takes her dancing and keep ramping up escalation. I repeat, RAMP UP ESCALATION. I fucked up my last date because I didn't try to kiss her.

If God loves you and puppies pray for your karma then at some point in the dance she will have her face close to you, her boobs against you and your hand on her lower back. Look her in the eye and kiss her. Just fucking do it. Once done keep ramping it up, then venue change after no more than 15 min. I can't stress this enough. You have to leave while she's still hot and not exhausted from dance.

Everytime I got something out of salsa I follwed the above system to the letter, and it just fucking works. My best lay in salsa with a solid 8 brunette with hair flowing past her back was like that. We were just 10min into dancing and we were making out/foreplaying on the dance floor. Zero resistance or LMR to the bang.

That's how I roll. See if it works for you guys.

Post: #68

(02-23-2015 08:12 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(02-23-2015 06:28 AM)bewater Wrote:  1. Make friends girls that have hot friends and which like to party a bit
2. Ask the new (girl)friends to get out clubbing in weekends with their hot friends, but before that to join me and my friends for a pre-drink on some apartment/venue.

I can see this working, though still it won't be the best method for effort spent. Girls in salsa are 99% attention whores. Flaking is on galactic warp-speed. Try it out and see how that works.

Quote:Plan B:
1. Make some (guy)friends and reach their social group. Making sure that I found the type doesn't get jealous of me banging girls from his social circle
2. Getting out with them and their girls. What I like about this approach is that most guys in dancing class are there to meet women, not many good looking, and don't know game. I also don't know much, but if I can help them with some basic advice(but not appear as arrogant player) it might be easy to tap into his social circle, especially if he likes a girl there and wants me there for advice(of course, assuring him I won't hit on his crush).

Yeah good luck with that. Guys in salsa class are bitches. They automatically see you as competition and trying to go through the back door won't work. Even your bros can cockblock you sometimes. What makes you think some guys who by default will have to compete with you for dance partners, will be useful to you?

Not to mention that your alliance of convenience will never mean shit because there will always be a guy who is the dance god in a venue who gets to dance with all the girls. The good news is that sometimes that guy actually don't get laid, but he blocks access to pussy. In salsa if you want to get laid you need to have air-tight isolation skills and be able to impress the girls.

What works for me is to be the "knows everyone but not friend with anyone" approach. In salsa you have to roll solo, but being on acquaintance level with people will give you a lot of social proof and connections. I find that people tend to be nicer with strangers who are very friendly.

@blackandwhite: to answer your questions on isolation and getting numbers:

Getting numbers in salsa DOESN"T MEAN JACK SHIT. You still have to do it but you will know what I'm talking about. I can get the number of all the girls I danced with if I want (and that actually happened) None of those will lead anywhere. Girls in salsa love giving numbers to guys and plus, if you hit it with the "let's go dancing sometimes. What's your number?" it's almost fail safe. Working through those numbers is a fucking chore though.

Isolation is key and is also difficult due to the fact that you switch partners all the time. I hate it when I'm having awesome conversation with a girl and a guy comes in and ask for a dance. Flow broken. Isolation skills are worth a library. Do a search on here and read all you can.

Anyway, this is what works for me:

-Dance with her well and ramp up the sexual stuff a little bit.
-Small talk while running game. Lead the convo towards "I know some excellent dance place. Let's go sometimes"
-Get the number, but continue chatting to her for about a min. Then excuse yourself and go dance with another girl right in front of her. Jealousy/DHV
-Ask her for another dance and continue ramping up your escalation. If you sense that she is into it, suggest a venue change or head outside for some air, where you can game her properly. If that goes well, try to venue change her home.
-Set up date through phone.

**sometimes girls will be pretty forward "let's go out dancing sometimes" In this case strike HARD and FAST. She is already DTF but in salsa she meets tons of new cocks so strike when the iron is hot**

DO NOT be the guy that every girl want to dance with but no girl wants to fuck. I can't explain this but maybe JJG can.

Dance skills are overrated if you are only into gaming. You just need to impress the girls and even intermediate dancers are easy to impress. I'm sometimes off-beat but I don't give a damn and have a strong, clear lead so girls never have a problem with me, EXCEPT the pro dancers, but if you want to game those you need another game, not dance game.

IOI: you will get a lot of IOI in salsa due to the sexual nature of the dance. That said, better to miss a shot than not taking it in the first place. Act on every IOI you receive by making sure that she gives you even more.

IOI AFTER DANCE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN DURING DANCE. I've had girls caressed her boobs against my face, holding eye contact "kiss me" literally half an inch to my face, rubbing herself against my crotch, only to leave without a backward glance as soon as the song finishes.

However, girls in salsa have invented a secret mating signal and I've caught on it, so listen up children

If after the song finishes, as you let go of her hand, she:

1. squeeze it hard and don't let go immediately
2. let her fingers run across your arm and caress your arm as you let go (fuck I hate it when girls I don't like do this to me)
3. stay in front of you or walk in your direction. This is why as a song finishes, don't turn away too quickly. See her reaction

All of those are good solid IOIs. You should ask her to dance another song and ramp up your game.

I've never gone on a date/bang a girl in salsa without one or many of those above signs.

Best case scenario: you get a girl out to a dance date with you.

If you did all of the above then run tight text/phone game, you will get girls on date. I recently went on one with a solid 8 Georgian model but I fucked it up.

Take her to the dance venue that you have on lock down. Or at least familiar with. Take care of logistics. As you hit the bar dance one or two songs. Then go grab a drink. This is the precious few minutes where you spit game and set the sexual/fun tone for the whole night. Once the alcohol set in takes her dancing and keep ramping up escalation. I repeat, RAMP UP ESCALATION. I fucked up my last date because I didn't try to kiss her.

If God loves you and puppies pray for your karma then at some point in the dance she will have her face close to you, her boobs against you and your hand on her lower back. Look her in the eye and kiss her. Just fucking do it. Once done keep ramping it up, then venue change after no more than 15 min. I can't stress this enough. You have to leave while she's still hot and not exhausted from dance.

Everytime I got something out of salsa I follwed the above system to the letter, and it just fucking works. My best lay in salsa with a solid 8 brunette with hair flowing past her back was like that. We were just 10min into dancing and we were making out/foreplaying on the dance floor. Zero resistance or LMR to the bang.

That's how I roll. See if it works for you guys.

Dalaran1991,

Nice solid post, and you seem to have a lot of decent strategies that are likely to work for some guys and in some venues. I would suggest, however, that sometimes guys may need to vary our approaches. Dalaran1991, I believe that you are referring to guys who are attempting to be regulars in the salsa dance scene (which may also apply to other social dance scenes), yet a guy who is NOT a regular may employ some different strategies; however, a guy who is a regular in the dance scene even one year later, after employing one strategy, we may need to tweak our strategy(ies) a bit to adjust to the kinds of luck we had been having with our earlier approach(es).

(02-23-2015 08:12 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  DO NOT be the guy that every girl want to dance with but no girl wants to fuck. I can't explain this but maybe JJG can.

Over the years, I have varied my interactions with dance scene women, and surely, there are some nights that I will go out to dance and spend the whole night flirting with various dance scene girls, but NOT really targeting any one that I want to attempt to bang - and in my experience, some nights can be a bit crappy regarding the percentages of available girls, and other nights can be gold mines.

It is my sense that in the end, guys want to employ strategies that allow us to chose the girls that we want to bang and to select them out and figure out ways to pursue our targets. As you suggest, we want to play around with dance scene girls in such ways that they are wanting to meet with us more and to dance with us more (then within those girls we can attempt to select the one(s) that are appealing to us). This is NOT an easy task because sometimes "us" regular guys in the dance scene may focus on one target and screw up another one, so in that regard, regular guys in the scene have to continually adjust our gaming efforts in order to create impressions with any girl that we target and make her want to escalate with us.

Also, if guys take breaks from the dance scene (for weeks or even months), sometimes, he will have to make some adjustments to his strategies to reassess which girls are more into him and how to target girls based on the new dynamics in that location - because, for example, while you were out, some girls that you considered to be "potential targets" or even good and/reliable filler dance partners may have turned cold or gotten into relationships and they are NO longer available to dance with you.. hahahaha.