Post: #51

You don't need 70k to live in London, popping bottles in VIP is pointless and waste of time/money.
Ideally you need to make enough money to have your own place, which not many dudes do unless it is a council flat.
The best thing about London is you can visit so many great pussy regions in Europe, if you are busy you can always fly them in. Personally, that would be my strategy.

Post: #52

£70k a year after tax, is about £115k before tax. I converted that gross salary to dollars to make sense of it and it came up around $200k....

I did some searching. If you can find a cool flatmate there are plenty of 2 bedrooms to be found in Shoreditch from £950 a month each, or even less. It's not cheap, but from an Australian POV that doesn't seem too apocalyptic.

Post: #53

Spent £90 last night on a casual Thursday down at Battersea outdoor cinema.

That money in Poland goes much further haha.

Post: #54

(08-07-2014 05:38 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  You don't need 70k to live in London, popping bottles in VIP is pointless and waste of time/money.
Ideally you need to make enough money to have your own place, which not many dudes do unless it is a council flat.
The best thing about London is you can visit so many great pussy regions in Europe, if you are busy you can always fly them in. Personally, that would be my strategy.

yeah, that would be my strategy as well. Added bonus of gaming the various foreign ladies around town and when they go back have some of them set up to visit as well.

Post: #55

(08-08-2014 02:04 AM)Deluge Wrote:  £70k a year after tax, is about £115k before tax. I converted that gross salary to dollars to make sense of it and it came up around $200k....

I did some searching. If you can find a cool flatmate there are plenty of 2 bedrooms to be found in Shoreditch from £950 a month each, or even less. It's not cheap, but from an Australian POV that doesn't seem too apocalyptic.

I am sure living in Whitechapel or Bethnal Green would be cheaper, and they are literally 15 minutes down the road. Flatsharing is defiantly the way forward if you are on a budget. Still as Bojangles said, living in zone three is not going to necessarily make that much of a difference, and you will find properties going for a lot cheaper.

Post: #56

(08-08-2014 02:04 AM)Deluge Wrote:  £70k a year after tax, is about £115k before tax. I converted that gross salary to dollars to make sense of it and it came up around $200k....

I did some searching. If you can find a cool flatmate there are plenty of 2 bedrooms to be found in Shoreditch from £950 a month each, or even less. It's not cheap, but from an Australian POV that doesn't seem too apocalyptic.

Its effectively 51% tax above the upper threshold so (around 33k) so you would need more than 115K gross.

Post: #57

I'm not sure guys how do you cope with night life pace in London.

I thought my place is some sort of alcoholic breeding ground until i went to England.

My impression is that islanders pretty much don't even consider it a night out unless they completely get themselves totaled to a condition where people have to carry them to their house by their arms and feet.

I was in London quite some time ago, i don't know if much changed.

Post: #58

You have 40% income tax, 20% VAT on goods and services, council tax, tv tax, congestion tax, high petrol duties, environmental taxes on utilitiy providers, stamp duty, and CGT of 50% on any money made on an investment, inheritance tax and pensions will be changed so first 25% is tax free and remainder taxed at income rates.

If you're ultra foreign rich you probably don't pay income tax and instead pay cheaper corporate tax of 21% or nothing if company offshore, pay relatively low council tax, don't pay CGT on property sales (this will change) and can dodge inheritance tax. Can buy property in cash and skip mortgage interest repayments and bank price rises of 10-20% per annum - better return on interest than putting it in the bank. London an attractive option for global rich but UK domiciled salary workers will have to pay a vast percentage of their wealth to the state.

Given the tax rate, the price of homes, transport and private school fees for a family to live comfortably in London they would need huge salaries.

Most people sacrifice their quality of living in terms of property ownership and retirement to make a name for themselves in a global financial capital.

Easiest option is to live in London when single, build career (nowhere better recognised worldwide) and get out later in life.

Post: #59

(08-08-2014 07:13 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  You have 40% income tax, 20% VAT on goods and services, council tax, tv tax, congestion tax, high petrol duties, environmental taxes on utilitiy providers, stamp duty, and CGT of 50% on any money made on an investment, inheritance tax and pensions will be changed so first 25% is tax free and remainder taxed at income rates.

If you're ultra foreign rich you probably don't get income tax and cheaper corporate tax of 21%, pay relatively low council tax, don't pay CGT on property sales (this will change) and can dodge inheritance tax.

Given the tax rate, the price of homes, transport and private school fees for a family to live comfortably in London they would need huge salaries.

Easiest option is to live in London when single, build career (nowhere better recognised worldwide) and get out later in life.

And 11% national insurance just to add to that list

Post: #60

New ways to save £ in London

Post: #61

I lived on £25k, but I never had anything left at the end of each month.

Post: #62

(08-08-2014 10:16 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I lived on £25k, but I never had anything left at the end of each month.

How old were you though?

Post: #63

(08-08-2014 10:35 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 10:16 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I lived on £25k, but I never had anything left at the end of each month.

How old were you though?

That was for 6 years, older than 25.

Post: #64

(08-08-2014 10:42 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 10:35 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-08-2014 10:16 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I lived on £25k, but I never had anything left at the end of each month.

How old were you though?

That was for 6 years, older than 25.

Of course I believe you...I just don't see how it's possible!

London is like the wallet sucking capital of the universe.

Post: #65

My salary was similar to Bojangles and I lived alright, my dick was happy in London.

£50K would do me fine, a car is useless in London so that is a big expense I don't have to worry about.

Post: #66

Yeah same rudebwoy, my dick had a stunning spree of 26 in 6 months. Thankfully I made some good friends who lived a good life too. Car is a useless expense I agree, just get a fucking travelcard

Post: #67

I have not been in London for years but am planning to have a few days there over Easter. Not into night game really...so my targets will be day game. I do know the London is full of foreigners everywhere...however..if I was specifically looking for EE girls (my bag)....which areas of London has the highest concentration of Latvians/Lithuanians/Estonians etc etC?

Post: #68

(08-07-2014 02:49 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(07-27-2014 03:37 PM)HankRearden Wrote:  One of my best friends here is a great looking guy, has a great job, dresses well, speaks well, is actually just a genuinely good person, and has probably slept with under 10 women at age 23. He can't figure it out, and neither can I. I do know, however, that if he lived in Canada/America he would be over 25, with better looking girls, and have put in much less effort (so long as he keeps that ever-fawned after English accent of his).

I have noted this time after time in the UK: the man is often better looking than the woman in a couple. Moreover, I can tell an internet date as the man is often far better looking than the woman.

I don't think that there is a more female-friendly dating market than that of the UK. The signs are there which normally suggest a seller's market:

*female obesity,
*generally poor clothing,
*a better looking boyfriend
* a slimmer boyfriend,
*hostility to natural heterosexual male desires (in contrast to the numbers and weird and wonderful things that gay men are into - gay rights are to be defended),
*a demand that potential boyfriends have suitable political beliefs,

I would advise every young British man to travel before basing his confidence on the British market or the validation of English women.

When I advertise a spare room, I subtly disqualify English women from moving in. I find them to be the least house proud women I have ever met. Italian, French and Spanish women have the place looking spotless while English women rarely clean up after themselves never mind doing the odd general house clean. They can't cook and a female Italian housemate remarks how often British men cook for British women and that would never happen to Italy. I replied that British men have no choice other than going out to eat.

The UK dating market it just like its domestic property market. It favours the seller. The value of the seller's asset increases regardless if he has invested anything into the repair and upkeep of his property. The UK housing stock is the worst maintained, most expensive and poorly constructed in all of Europe - just like its women.

^ Bullseye - it's absolutely spot on as a description of the UK dating market experience for men. I used to live in Germany but returned to the UK in 2013 and am still suffering from a state of disorientation from the realization of how out of whack the dating dynamics are here for men in the UK. So many guys, especially if they are average-looking, have to date down - way down - just to secure a girlfriend, it's hard to take in at times.

In addition to the list of factors that the OP gave as indications of a seller's market for women, I would add the following:

* An extreme aversion to being approached by members of the opposite sex, which assumes the form of studiously avoiding eye contact at all times, aided by the use of smartphones to blank out any sense of their surroundings. Furthermore, any attempt at contact with them is likely to be met with a sense of reproachful suspicion verging on paranoia that will leave the male "offender" feeling like he has committed a grave violation of the woman's space simply by accosting her. Indeed, I would go so far as to assert that merely looking at a half-way attractive woman in the UK will elicit such a reaction more often than not.

* A pronouncedly narcissistic and stuck-up obnoxious personality, fully devoid of any vestige of classical femininity or even basic humanity with many of them. Their overtly haughty manner is also openly contemptuous to the gaze any of male who she would deem to be not worthy of viewing her - the walking with the nose perched in the clouds, the quick flick of the head to side on the pavement when a male approaches, et.c.

* Epic levels of male thirst comparable with the situation in Australia, US, Canada and the other Anglo hellholes for men. Forget night game, even when running social circle game I find that even the most unattractive females - i.e. hambeasts - all have boyfriends/husbands, with the sole single female in the group either having an visceral aversion to men (i.e., single by choice) or suffering from a personality disorder (of which there are many in the UK in my experience). Naturally, the number of excess males in the groups is obvious - guys who often work out at the gym, earn decently and who are pro-active in seeking out female company, yet they all go home alone to the comfort of nothing but porn and their right hand. I've witnessed this too many times, in too many different social scenarios to be in any doubt.

But it's hard to really digest on an emotional level, whatever my intellect and sense are repeatedly telling me. Living in the UK, outside of London, feels like I'm living inside a dating prison.

Post: #69

Out of interest, for people on this forum who are living in London.

What are your finances like, in terms of accommodation, how much you are earning and average monthly spending. Do you find a way around the high prices ?


I am a born and bred Londoner but decided to turn against a couple of job opportunities in the city although the pay was very decent. I already have the commercial experience in the capital and I just don't think i can tolerate this place anymore. Even 'middle class' londoners I know of are all trying to get out of this city, either to go up north to the second and third cities or just upping and leaving the country. Don't get me started on the older generation.

Although I may overall earn less in the far East, I will be getting more experience, better value for money and quality of life overall. In London getting good money and contacts just doesn't outweigh the negatives that you start to see after living in the city for a long while. Then again this is my perspective and I have lived in this city for a very long time.

My elders had public service jobs in the capital when real londoners were still around and the whole place didn't turn into some wannabe sex and the city film set. However jobs such as nursing, police officers, firefighters, council workers are now too consumed by political correctness, bureaucracy and most of all the salaries are just going to send you living with your parents or flat sharing with spanish students until you are in your 30s.

The positive side of London is that for the short term you can live in a big city where everything is happening, the Tube will be running 24/7 soon and that should be interesting. In terms of jobs, for some high up positions; they will only be available in London but if you are banking 200k a year, then London will literally be a playground.

Post: #70

I have a lot of experience of London and agree with pretty much most of this thread.

I lived partly in New York last year, the girls in London in comparison are very cold and more difficult to approach. Though I would say Day Game for London is king, I've had much better results in it than nightgame. This sort of realisation struck me after asking for directions from some girls in the City and managed to build conversations from that to the extent they were literally waiting for me to ask for their number. It is different to East Village, Manhattan say though were girls would smile at you walking down the street. The quality of women is terrible. In New York for example there is a real culture of exercising and eating well, in London while many guys do exercise many girls seem to do next to no physical activity.

Many of my friends don't have more than 6/10 girlfriends and I can't even begin to imagine how much hotter girls they could get if they were living somewhere else. They are too stupid to see it with their own eyes and believe they have bagged themselves top girls.

Logistics are the biggest let down. London is a huge city, many don't drive, it is expensive, there is a congestion zone charge, the Tube doesn't run 24 hours, night buses are absolutely shite. I could go on. Girls want things to happen naturally, how natural does it feel to go on a 30 minute Tube journey back to your place. It doesn't feel natural at all.

On the upside a few things have changed/changing:
1) Uber makes it easier and cheaper (usually) to get back to her or your place, compared to the black taxi rip off merchants. Its effect shouldn't be underestimated.
2) Several lines on the Tube will run 24/7 on weekends from September. This will hopefully improve nightlife on the weekends for the whole city, instead of everyone running home by 1am.
3) Crossrail also when is introduced in a couple of years will improve inner city transport further.

There are far easier places to game. But if you game here you can game anywhere.

Post: #71

I would strongly argue London is better than Toronto for dating. I know guys that don't have much but have crazy high notch counts from day game.
When I got tired of London, I could easily escape for cheap and hit numerous places with very decent talent. My friends in Toronto could only dream of such talent.

London has boatloads of foreign girls moving there daily, I couldn't imagine living elsewhere in the UK. Travelling to Birmingham and such places made me feel like I was going back in time.

Post: #72

I had been considering moving to London at some point this year. But fuck me reading this thread is depressing.

I did actually use to live in London back in 2004-2006 and hated it. Sure it was my pre-game and pre-red pill days but I was still generally fairly good at pulling girls up in bars and clubs back then (tho daygame was a completely alien concept to me). However after a few months of living in London and a couple of mediocre bangs I effectively gave up on bothering to try and pick up. Combination of having to battle through a cockfest of thirsty guys chasing substandard women who acted like they were an 11/10. The best example which summed up London for me was the good-from-far-but-far-from-good polish 6 with shitty attitude who worked in my local dry cleaners. I would walk by her shop daily to and from work and every now and again there would be a different suited up dude come to pick her up in his Aston Martin/Ferrari/Porsche. Usually he would jump out of his car and sprint round the other side to open the door for her. While she would get in completely ignoring him, playing on her phone having made little to no effort to dress up for her date.

However, now being older and having since discovered game and gotten pretty good at it I am wondering if London would be a different proposition. Sure it's going to be rock hard to pick up especially after having been in SE Asia for the past 2.5 years. But again I do like a challenge. Being 'daygame capital of the world' intrigues me as well.

Much as I would love to stay out here in Singapore/SE Asia, the only reason I am considering London is that I need to return to the UK for family reasons (long story) and working in finance within banking London has a very good market for contracting where I could make effectively annual salary of around GBP 110k. I am also making an additional supplementary income from an airbnb rental I have (expecting to net roughly GBP 20k pa from). I would also pay less tax on that being effectively self employed also.

The plan thus is to take on short term contracts which are paying decent wedge. Laying low-ish, hitting the gym and playing football midweek to save up cash (but with the occasional nightlife blowout and european trip). Then in between each contract taking a couple month off to travel round EE, Asia or LatAm. Hopefully London being a good 'gym for you game' should keep my skills sharp and then I'll be able to reap the benefits when I head to more 'poosy paradise' style locations.

Personally, on the face of it, having to move back to the UK for a bit then I would prefer living in my adopted home city of Glasgow but I just wouldn't be able to make anywhere like the same kind of money. Plus I feel like I want to give London another shot. I want to give daygame a good go. There is a pretty busy pickup scene so should be no shortage of wings and good friends to make. Plus London has so many airports meaning almost anywhere in the world is a direct flight away.

And If it doesn't work out I can just move back up to Glasgow after the end of the contract anyway.

Is anyone here who is based in London operating this type of lifestyle? ie using London as a base to earn decent money while bulking up on your game, then bouncing out to various travel destinations for a few months? I would be interested to hear your thoughts...

Post: #73

I have been living on and off in London & Europe for years. Since ditching the night life, London is now my home. I could have lived anywhere but I was getting bored and frustrated with my local amenities. London has options. I also have friends and family near by so that was my priority. Living alone in some EE shithole for the sole purpose of women and cheap rent started to turn me weird. It's a great adventure when you are young and hungry for it but I just stopped caring and starting to loose my sense of identity. I am considerably happier in London.
London in itself is not that expensive, the problem is rent. But it is no more than NY or other major hubs. British weather is the best because its mild all year round. No swelteringly hot summers and it never goes below -0 so there are always people around and lot's going on.
Supermakets are cheap and drinking and eating out is comparable to other Euro cities. Ukraine and Poland are an exception but the food is pig swill.
If you are paying a third of your salary on rent then you should have nothing to complain about. You need a healthy wage if you want your own pad in the centre. FInding house mates is tough but I guess that is your only option if you can't drop more than a grand a month. So yeah… that sucks.
Dating in London is hard. It's a city of 8 million people so you have to be patient. This isn't some quaint city square with innocent 18 year old virgins tottering around waiting to be swooped of their feet. It's a fucking beast and you need to work hard at the beginning to make it work for you.
AS a man of a certain age I wanted a bit more stability in my relationships. Fleeting one night stands with young girls is all very well but amazingly it did come to a point were it just started making me feel like shit. Last year I achieved what would have otherwise involved 5 different countries and a whole lot of stress in between. Once you get the ball rolling its relaxing times all the way.
I still make occasional trips to Europe maybe once a month and London is ideal for short getaways to quench our thirst for international trim.

Post: #74

(03-31-2015 11:28 PM)Irish Wrote:  I had been considering moving to London at some point this year. But fuck me reading this thread is depressing.

I did actually use to live in London back in 2004-2006 and hated it. Sure it was my pre-game and pre-red pill days but I was still generally fairly good at pulling girls up in bars and clubs back then (tho daygame was a completely alien concept to me). However after a few months of living in London and a couple of mediocre bangs I effectively gave up on bothering to try and pick up. Combination of having to battle through a cockfest of thirsty guys chasing substandard women who acted like they were an 11/10. The best example which summed up London for me was the good-from-far-but-far-from-good polish 6 with shitty attitude who worked in my local dry cleaners. I would walk by her shop daily to and from work and every now and again there would be a different suited up dude come to pick her up in his Aston Martin/Ferrari/Porsche. Usually he would jump out of his car and sprint round the other side to open the door for her. While she would get in completely ignoring him, playing on her phone having made little to no effort to dress up for her date.

However, now being older and having since discovered game and gotten pretty good at it I am wondering if London would be a different proposition. Sure it's going to be rock hard to pick up especially after having been in SE Asia for the past 2.5 years. But again I do like a challenge. Being 'daygame capital of the world' intrigues me as well.

Much as I would love to stay out here in Singapore/SE Asia, the only reason I am considering London is that I need to return to the UK for family reasons (long story) and working in finance within banking London has a very good market for contracting where I could make effectively annual salary of around GBP 110k. I am also making an additional supplementary income from an airbnb rental I have (expecting to net roughly GBP 20k pa from). I would also pay less tax on that being effectively self employed also.

The plan thus is to take on short term contracts which are paying decent wedge. Laying low-ish, hitting the gym and playing football midweek to save up cash (but with the occasional nightlife blowout and european trip). Then in between each contract taking a couple month off to travel round EE, Asia or LatAm. Hopefully London being a good 'gym for you game' should keep my skills sharp and then I'll be able to reap the benefits when I head to more 'poosy paradise' style locations.

Personally, on the face of it, having to move back to the UK for a bit then I would prefer living in my adopted home city of Glasgow but I just wouldn't be able to make anywhere like the same kind of money. Plus I feel like I want to give London another shot. I want to give daygame a good go. There is a pretty busy pickup scene so should be no shortage of wings and good friends to make. Plus London has so many airports meaning almost anywhere in the world is a direct flight away.

And If it doesn't work out I can just move back up to Glasgow after the end of the contract anyway.

Is anyone here who is based in London operating this type of lifestyle? ie using London as a base to earn decent money while bulking up on your game, then bouncing out to various travel destinations for a few months? I would be interested to hear your thoughts...

I think that will do you fine, most of my comments are more aimed at younger men who are thinking about spending their 20s in the city. As a lot of them puff their chest out and say that they are a 'Londoner'. But the poor sods usually end up flat sharing with students and chefs while working 9 to 9 for some boring company. I would also return to London if I could get a high end job in the City. As London is the base for many big companies and with a salary like that you can really get the most of the city.



As for the women in London, I think its very random. If you were to live in the vast suburbs or have any deep confidence issues, it could be very difficult. But there are a lot of beautiful women in the city, you just have to find them and approach when you can.

I do have to say though, the competition in London is massive. Reasonably attractive sales assistants in Oxford high street will have bankers and top businessmen buying them expensive gifts without even dating them, just for the purposes of showing off. From friends and associates it looks like one of those situations where you either sink or float to the bottom.

Post: #75

I have been living in London for the last 4 years. I spent the fist three years having a LTR, so my options regarding girls were limited. BUT.. over the last year that I have been officially single, I have collected 15 flags from online dating and social circle. The quality girls came from my social circle, hit them in the club and all led to ONS. I will never forget the 22 years old Dutch chick, which was 8.5/10 and maybe the hottest girl I have ever been with. Not one single lay came from nightgame or daygame, but I don't practice any of them, since I'm over 35. Flatmates can be VERY useful, if they are cool, because you can establish a social circle that will help you A LOT. But as I said, only if they are cool.