Post: #26

(12-28-2015 07:36 PM)Onto Wrote:  By all means though, give your wife the freedom of western culture. A career, her own friends (guys included), happy hours with her co-workers, girls night out, and all the rest. See how it goes. And what's the harm in a TV show anyway? Or a movie? It's just a story. Doesn't mean anything. It won't raise questions in her or give answers, right?

So the answer is light imprisonment?

You find your Svetlana in Odessa, bring her back her at the ripe age of 20.
Knock her up, and have her live in your house out in the burbs.

Far from friends and family, in a new culture, trapped in some suburb with children, while you're out working (and presumably getting some on the side)

That's game?

Hell no, it isn't.

WIA

Post: #27

(12-28-2015 08:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 07:36 PM)Onto Wrote:  By all means though, give your wife the freedom of western culture. A career, her own friends (guys included), happy hours with her co-workers, girls night out, and all the rest. See how it goes. And what's the harm in a TV show anyway? Or a movie? It's just a story. Doesn't mean anything. It won't raise questions in her or give answers, right?

So the answer is light imprisonment?

You find your Svetlana in Odessa, bring her back her at the ripe age of 20.
Knock her up, and have her live in your house out in the burbs.

Far from friends and family, in a new culture, trapped in some suburb with children, while you're out working (and presumably getting some on the side)

That's game?

Hell no, it isn't.

WIA

If a woman feels that creating a home, caring for her husband, and raising children is imprisonment then I don't see her as marriage material.

I'm really surprised some would view that as trapping her in a jail cell. Poor girl.

You know what, I shouldn't be surprised. It's the cultural viewpoint of modern-day America. A good example of it is this scene from Lord of the Rings which I bet wasn't in the original story.





Let's analyze that scene a bit. You have the young woman with a sword in her hand. The sword is a symbol for power, and that of the lethal kind. Look how she's admiring and smiling at it. How she loves to wield it and when a potential suitor tries to bridle her, how does she react?

The cage is a metaphor for the traditional role of women. She depicts it as horrific and robs her of the valor of being her own, independent woman.

I can't see how a woman watching a scene like that doesn't raise some kind of question within her, and how she wouldn't recognize the answer it's providing. This is just one scene in popular movie, but there are other movies and TV shows where it's the entire theme.

Post: #28

(12-28-2015 06:11 PM)Menace Wrote:  Have a look at Philippine family law, for example:

Last I checked, there's really no such thing as legal divorce in the Philippines...and annulments are complicated, drawn-out, costly and rare. Surely this cannot be taken as analogous to the situation in the anglosphere.

So yes, while it is important to resist a blanket assumption that any non-western country is a paradise for marriage (because all such things vary greatly), it's also simply wrong to claim that non-western countries can't be better in offering environments conducive to successful matrimony.

Post: #29

(12-28-2015 08:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 07:36 PM)Onto Wrote:  By all means though, give your wife the freedom of western culture. A career, her own friends (guys included), happy hours with her co-workers, girls night out, and all the rest. See how it goes. And what's the harm in a TV show anyway? Or a movie? It's just a story. Doesn't mean anything. It won't raise questions in her or give answers, right?

So the answer is light imprisonment?

You find your Svetlana in Odessa, bring her back her at the ripe age of 20.
Knock her up, and have her live in your house out in the burbs.

Far from friends and family, in a new culture, trapped in some suburb with children, while you're out working (and presumably getting some on the side)

That's game?

Hell no, it isn't.

WIA

Yea, keep her in a cage in the basement. Every once in a while, presumably you let her out to cook and clean. That's exactly what's being advocated. Come on, no need to gaslight here.

Ironically, my uncle did something pretty close to what you're satirically describing. I already spoke about this in the thread I linked to:

Quote:My uncle, in his 50s at the time, brought over a Ukranian woman at maybe 20 years old who barely spoke any English. She seemed shy, but was a great cook and cleaned. My female relatives were up in arms, treating her and my uncle with contempt. Not because she was a bad woman, but looking back on it, because they didn't want any of their men to start getting the same idea.

Fast forward to today, he's in his late 60s and she's just turning 30. They just had a kid together. They look happy. How is this possible? I would venture a few guesses. My uncle is an attorney specializing in family and immigration law. That's a kind of soft power, where my aunt knows that whatever she'd try to pull, he'd be 3 steps ahead of her. The other thing is, she works for him as an assistant in his firm. It's just them. He's the boss, and because they spend all day together, he doesn't have to worry about her getting close with coworkers.

He's much older, but also has kept up pretty well for his age, and he's a charmer. They live out in the suburbs so her options aren't as wide. It could all change tomorrow, but she seems to have kept most of her old world values, and I think there's a decent chance it'll work out.

Thing is, she seems happier than most western women her age that I've met. She does have friends- my uncle's friends and family, some of which get along better now with her than they do my uncle. She does work- for my uncle, but now she's devoted to being a mother, and seems ecstatic about it. She does have entertainment- She seems introverted by nature, and happy enough to read Tolstoy and Dostoevsky.

But I guess she'd be better off out getting shitfaced and riding the carousel, eventually coming home to her family of cats when the music stops? Because that would probably be her endgame if my uncle was a pushover and indulged every one of her whims.

Post: #30

(12-28-2015 02:24 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  The impression I'm getting is that the answer is:

No, you cannot you bring a woman from a foreign country over to the west without it corrupting her.

Is that a fair take?

I married a Japanese woman over 20 years ago, then soon after that brought her back to the US. Because she chose to never really work on her language skills, she's never "corrupted" much. On the other hand, I speak Japanese fluently and was very familiar with the culture, so managed to avoid forcing her to develop a support group of Americans. All of this doesn't mean I'm categorically happy in my married life (after all, I'm here, aren't I?), but we haven't had to fight all of the western bullshit. (However there was one occurrence of walking in to my home, finding my mother counselling my (relatively) new wife on US divorce law and the need to lawyer up if "you guys don't work out." I just about chewed my mom a new asshole! Damn I was pissed!)

Post: #31

(12-28-2015 09:06 PM)kinnikinik Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 02:24 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  The impression I'm getting is that the answer is:

No, you cannot you bring a woman from a foreign country over to the west without it corrupting her.

Is that a fair take?

I married a Japanese woman over 20 years ago, then soon after that brought her back to the US. Because she chose to never really work on her language skills, she's never "corrupted" much. On the other hand, I speak Japanese fluently and was very familiar with the culture, so managed to avoid forcing her to develop a support group of Americans. All of this doesn't mean I'm categorically happy in my married life (after all, I'm here, aren't I?), but we haven't had to fight all of the western bullshit. (However there was one occurrence of walking in to my home, finding my mother counselling my (relatively) new wife on US divorce law and the need to lawyer up if "you guys don't work out." I just about chewed my mom a new asshole! Damn I was pissed!)

That's how culturally strong and toxic American culture is. Your own Mother chose the side of feminism over her Son's best interests. Helping his new wife see the financial benefits available to her for imploding the marriage. Imagine if she had a strong circle of American women she could spend quality time with on a continuos basis.

Post: #32

There's got to be a happy medium between having a slave or the other extreme of having a typical empowered American wife but the key to that is carefully selecting the right chick who feels strong enough about her traditional values that she won't stray. If she's rebelling or shows signs of wanting to rebel against those values then you have to next her. I'll admit it's like trying to thread a needle though but if you want a family it's what you have to do. You can't just fall in love and hope for the best, you need to be as certain as possible and vet her carefully. How many previous partners, her views on divorce, closeness to her Dad etc. Glad it's nothing I need to worry about anymore. Slut are just fine for me from here on out.

Post: #33

This thread seems to be diverging into two schools of thought, and there is merit in both.

Yes, Western culture is most definitely corrupt and some of us still buy into it despite our red pill knowledge. It's influence is strong and pervasive. There is a lot of slightly shaming "man up" statements being made on this forum, not only in this thread, but in several others. I believe that is a byproduct of Western culture and women say it all the time to men around here.

So the urge to isolate our future wives from the most corrosive elements of Western culture is understandable. You have to understand where that is coming from because you see it everyday and everywhere. It's disgusting and disheartening from a red pill point of view, that it almost makes you want to put your blinders back on.

But how is this practical, exactly? Do you go live in some bumfuck town surrounded by mountains where the nearest grocery store is 30 miles away? And some guys talk about forbidding their wives to drive. Well, when you're at work, how is she going to get groceries for you, her, and the kids, then? Plus she's going to be bored out of her fucking mind. And some of these towns have 8 to 1 ratios of thirsty males to he-female whales with missing teeth. Your unicorn wife from wherever you imported from is going to be very sought after, and if any one of those males have just as much game or muscle as you do if not more, then you'd better watch it. I can understand not using cable and only watching manosphere-friendly movies, but that might be as far as it goes with respect to feasibility.

Sure, you could pack it up and make a permanent move abroad. But what about your family, friends and career that you'd be leaving behind? If you have no real family and have a location independent income, it probably would be a much easier decision for you. But if you grew up with lots of family and had some roots here along with a solid career that you've worked so hard to build, it is a decision that cannot be taken lightly. I'm in the latter case, and sometimes I teeter between being gung-ho about "getting the fuck outta here" and having second thoughts about my grand plans.

So let's say you do move. But you'll always be a "foreigner" or "outsider" in whatever country you end up in. You'd have to spend years and years becoming fluent in their language, especially if it's a hard one like Mandarin or Thai. I can live with that for a while, maybe a few years, personally. But is that where I want to be at 45? How about 55? Or 70? Sure there are some 70 year old men living a much happier life abroad than here, but what was their real story? Maybe they already had a family and kids. Then got divorce raped and lost everything, taking their remaining pocket change to live it out in the Philippines. We don't really know their stories and whether they would apply to men like us.

It goes without saying that we men need to keep working on our game whether we are single and whether we are married. I recently read a book by Athol Kay and wrote a review about it (link: /thread-52543.html ).

This guy kept his marriage together despite the toxic cultural influences. How? She was a virgin and was religious when they first met. No surprise there, we all know that low-count girls are better wife material and the risk of divorce is lower with them. But that does not mean you can get complacent when you actually find one. As WIA says, you still got to have game and keep it at the highest level as you possibly can. You cannot get lazy. Family life, in my experience, can be stressful, tiring, and boring as fuck. If you don't find a way to spice things up and keep things interesting, your marriage is going to go down in flames. This is important and overlooked... you've got to spice things up, make life interesting, and keep yourselves out of a never-ending boredom rut.

It helps if the husband and wife are a real TEAM that allows for more cohesiveness than if they went their separate ways to their respective jobs, and coming back home totally beat. Perhaps the husband runs a business, and has his wife help him. Even better if the business can be run from home, so they both stay at home to be with the kids, saving money on child care, homeschooling them even, and keeping negative cultural influences out without being a paranoid and possessive asshole. I imagine that would be one cohesive family, don't you think? The more cohesive a family is, especially between the man and woman, the harder it'd be to break them apart.

I believe this is why some men advocate having kids almost immediately after marrying and do it while she's young, because this would keep her busy as a mother. Which is what you want. But at the same time, so many men make the mistake of putting the kids first. A woman's natural inclination would be to put the kids first, but we, as the head of our family, cannot allow this to happen. We must put the relationship between the man and woman first, yes - even before the kids. Putting the kids first is the wrong frame, and you let the kids - and by extension - the mother - rule the household. No. That does not work.

Every time you get on a plane before takeoff, you hear the safety procedure that tells you to put your oxygen mask on first, BEFORE you put the mask on your kid. Why? If you pass out while trying to put the mask on your kid, both of you are going to pass out. The analogy applies to taking care of your family. Take care of yourself first - meaning your health, fitness, game, finances, etc - before you take care of your woman and kids.

It does go without saying that we need to be cognizant of what kind of women we consider LTRing or marrying. This forum has been a WEALTH of information on what red flags to look out for, how to improve your game, and which countries tend to have more of the wife material that we are looking for, or we might want to look for in the future.

So is there a third option? Besides moving to a foreign country, or importing a foreign woman here?

I don't know. I don't have any foolproof answers. As much as it bothers me right into my core, there may never be any foolproof answers... and we could age into our 80s alone sitting and waiting for such an answer.

But the closest thing to an acceptable answer is: Me. Yourself. Ourselves.

Look within ourselves, what we can tolerate, and what we cannot tolerate. What is most important to us? What really matters in our lives? What are we willing to sacrifice to get what we want? Do we even KNOW what we want? What kind of man do we really want to be?

These are heavy questions, I know. I don't know the answers to some of these questions about my own self. I'm learning everyday, though... and while I have my location independence plan, I really think that I would not figure things out for myself until I've been traveling around for 2-3 years at least. Then... just maybe... hopefully... I will have some more experience to help answer some of these important questions for myself. What I DO know is that staying exactly where I am right now, hoping things will somehow improve with a little extra game, is going to accomplish nothing.

To become the man I want to be, I know I need to make serious changes in my life, if for nothing other than some deep and profound experiences to draw upon from to help me map out the rest of my life.

Alright I'll get off my soapbox now. I think about this shit too much.

Post: #34

I believe the divorce rate for American men marrying foriegn brides is much lower then marrying American women. I believe ive seen articles that list it at 20-25% divorce rate for foreign wife.

I wouldnt worry about her becoming corrupt. Its either going to happen or its not. Your choices are marrying a potentially corrupt woman vs. An already corrupt women vs not getting married at all (which eventaully everyone does and should do)

Post: #35

(12-28-2015 09:34 PM)Onto Wrote:  That's how culturally strong and toxic American culture is. Your own Mother chose the side of feminism over her Son's best interests. Helping his new wife see the financial benefits available to her for imploding the marriage. Imagine if she had a strong circle of American women she could spend quality time with on a continuos basis.

Yup.

Post: #36

(12-28-2015 07:36 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 12:16 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 10:19 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  The more I think about it, the more I dislike the idea of keeping an imported wife isolated out of fear that she'd get corrupted by Western culture.

There has to be a better way. I don't have any better answers, but somehow I don't think this is it.

Speaking generally, if you have a fear that your wife is going to become corrupted by Western culture, then you should not be getting married. You just do not have your shit together then. You can't live in fear period. Anything can happen, no matter how "alpha" or whatever you are.

This fear is really just a manifestation of your own insecurity.

Find a woman from your preferred ethnicity or culture right here in the US. The whole "corruption" issue is wildly overblown. I see foreign women exclusively, and they are not corrupted according to my understanding.

To put it more brutally (and not directed at anyone in this thread) this mentality comes down to: I'm a loser and I want a pseudo-slave.

Calling people, and that would include me, "losers" who want a "pseudo-slave" is really off-base. That's something I would expect an American woman to say when asked about the subject.

By all means though, give your wife the freedom of western culture. A career, her own friends (guys included), happy hours with her co-workers, girls night out, and all the rest. See how it goes. And what's the harm in a TV show anyway? Or a movie? It's just a story. Doesn't mean anything. It won't raise questions in her or give answers, right?

My take here is that it is all a matter of supply and demand.

Let´s take for example Svetlana from Odessa, she may or not have a career but certainly she has friends and many male friends, she goes out when she can, she goes to the countryside with said friends, she probably drinks at least socially, she has foreigners hitting on her online and the ocasional or not westerner/arab sex tourist, she watches the same shows and movies has her american counterpart, uses instagram...and so on. This could apply also to a colombian, brazilian or a southeast asian. So this is not what will corrupt her.

What will happen is that after coming to the west she will start to see guys who have more money, better car/house, more muscles, better style/looking with lesser attractive girls than her. That is when she will start to question, add that by that she was already approached and catcalled a few times, not that the guys back from where she comes do not do it, but certainly not the same quality nor the same ammount of them.

Taking her to a remote location can work for a while, but soon she will feel bored, and will want to at least get a job, of wich she will want to keep the income to herself or to support the family back home, and since you are the man you have to provide everything since it was part of the initial contract when she accepted the offer to move west. Then she will hear how her co-workers play with those failled beta guys...

So unless you are of completely higher value than her (and value for men is measured by looks, wallet and personality, whereas she can use only her looks) bringing an attractive girl in her early twenties to wife up and expect that things go like a fairytale is just that, a fantasy.
These sweet woman are a product of their landscape, and taking them out of it, and specially in a hunting mission (some successful couples have met trough work for example, while the guy was an expat), normally brings a sour taste in the mouth.

With slightly older woman (late 20s forward), with a kid to lookout for and already burned by the harshness of life in a 2nd or 3d world country, then I believe things can work out better. But then you have to be ready to "man up" and help to raise her kid.
While attractive and slim, the problems summed up will also exist, but she will be more aware of her place and the accepted deal, and is not in the same position to make errors in life.

If you really want or have to live in the States or in the west, I think it is better to date foreign woman who are accultured and aclimatized. Certainly there will be much less drama and negative surprises than wife hunting abroad. On the other side, it will be much more difficult to get the same ammount of quantity, quality, or perceived "cleaner" personality than chasing them in the source.

Post: #37

(12-28-2015 10:51 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  Sure, you could pack it up and make a permanent move abroad. But what about your family, friends and career that you'd be leaving behind? If you have no real family and have a location independent income, it probably would be a much easier decision for you. But if you grew up with lots of family and had some roots here along with a solid career that you've worked so hard to build, it is a decision that cannot be taken lightly. I'm in the latter case, and sometimes I teeter between being gung-ho about "getting the fuck outta here" and having second thoughts about my grand plans.

So let's say you do move. But you'll always be a "foreigner" or "outsider" in whatever country you end up in. You'd have to spend years and years becoming fluent in their language, especially if it's a hard one like Mandarin or Thai. I can live with that for a while, maybe a few years, personally. But is that where I want to be at 45? How about 55? Or 70? Sure there are some 70 year old men living a much happier life abroad than here, but what was their real story? Maybe they already had a family and kids. Then got divorce raped and lost everything, taking their remaining pocket change to live it out in the Philippines. We don't really know their stories and whether they would apply to men like us.

Great post, you have obviously put a lot of thought into this.

There is a real fear that guys have of women; Of marrying them, of western women, of bringing back foreign women. I do understand as I have been very aware of declining culture for us men.

But in no way would I ever tell a guy with no game to go abroad to find a wife. Go abroad to bang girls? Hell yes. The only way to know a slut, is to bang them. And then not fall in love with them. Or do fall in love with one, have her burn down your world and then try and pick up the pieces. Either way this seems to be an important part of game.

To me I would much rather spend the time, put in the work and just plain say fuck it and have a family here. I want my son to grow up with his cousins, to know the love of his grandparents and my big extended family. This Christmas solidified this. My nephews are all within a year of my son, and the closest one is only 3 months older. If I were to get the fear and end up moving to Asia in order to feel like I can get lazy with game this would not be fair to my son. I grew up close to all my cousins, and now as adults we are still tight and its been amazing to watch them raise their own children and build their own empires.

On the forum here its sometimes hard for the guys newer to game to relate to the guys who have been working at it for years. It can come across like some of us have a magic bullet or formula when it comes to pussy. But what a lot of us do not say is how we were fucked over in the past, or had to learn game slowly with tremendous effort, or even tossed away amazing women because we were still in the process of learning how to be confident in relationships.

What I hope that it comes down to for most guys willing to learn game is that they manage to get the best of all worlds. The traditional wife, the healthy family in a safe place, good and caring friends and all this among family that supports them at all costs. This is what I hope for everyone who wants this.

Post: #38

Cleanslate, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote in the post above.

I think you guys are taking what I said about insulation from western influence out of context. I never advocated that you move her to hills, put her in captivity and forget about game. In fact, game is more important than ever in this situation.

The idea that encouraging women into a domestic role is oppressive strikes me as blue pill. It's something I'd expect to hear from feminists. I think sometimes the obsession with alpha/beta is counterproductive, and certain situations are more nuanced. The "Is it a Bad Move for a Married Man to Allow Another Man to Stay in His Home?" is a perfect example to me. If game were the silver bullet to every situation, the answer would be "No, if you're a super alpha your woman won't have any desire to cheat in any situation. You're coming from a mentality of fear, that's beta." The thread generated a lot of interesting discussion and by and large, most people agree that there's just some situations that shouldn't be encouraged, period.

I don't see the environment you set as a black and white thing. There's a middle ground between treating her like a Saudi housebride and treating her like a liberated club rat. At the end of the day her needs will have to be met and she'll need to feel like she's not missing out. A big part of how easily her needs are met are based on her natural inclinations towards a motherly role, her upbringing, and her attitude. That's all done in the vetting process, and relies on you and your awareness of women. Another aspect is your frame and general game ability.

And, I think, a big part of that will also be her environment. Who her friends are, what shows she watches, if she has a close relationship with your family. It's not about putting her in chains out of fear, but managing the situation so the outcome works best for everyone involved. Ultimately, she's better off being visited by her grandkids than dying alone with her cats, and taking steps to get her to that eventuality is to her benefit.

Early on she'll look to you for the answers regarding friends, entertainment, work environment. If she respects you, and if all her needs are being met, I think she'll understand your expectations and be happy to oblige. I don't see a problem with this. Logistics is part of game, and taking proactive steps to create a lifestyle and environment that benefits your goals seems like a no brainer. If I ever end up in that situation, I'm not going to be taking a hands off approach. The game doesn't end once you've shacked up with someone.

Post: #39

There was a time i was dating a foreign girl and had intentions to pump lil halfie babies into her and work a 9 to 5 and all that nonsense.

If you are worried about the influence of the west you need to sit down and evaluate your life, friends and family. Just as you are the average of your five closest friends the woman you marry will pick up traits from you and those around you.

I had solid friends who would accept any woman I brought in and treat her as an extension of me. These friends, while exposing her to western values, would not be poisoning her mind like others have worried about.

Family as well, having a mother who could accept a new daughter into her family would do wonders for building up what would be her new western personality.

So as always, this shit is up to you to be prepared for should you choose to do as such. You can't expect to be in one place and expect the same results as the man who took the time to mold his world.

Post: #40

(12-29-2015 07:24 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  Early on she'll look to you for the answers regarding friends, entertainment, work environment. If she respects you, and if all her needs are being met, I think she'll understand your expectations and be happy to oblige. I don't see a problem with this. Logistics is part of game, and taking proactive steps to create a lifestyle and environment that benefits your goals seems like a no brainer. If I ever end up in that situation, I'm not going to be taking a hands off approach. The game doesn't end once you've shacked up with someone.

This. It is what I love about the location independence idea. Because when you are location independent, ideally with sufficient income to live almost anywhere except the world's most expensive cities, you are very much in control of the environment you live in. Therefore you are better able to filter out the most corruptive elements of Western culture if you should choose to marry here, and preserve the internal family life with game.

Post: #41

The thing about marrying women from abroad is that your chances of finding a good woman abroad is extremely small. It's not as simple as many on the forum make it seem.

First is that you will need to spend some time in that particular country, you need know the ins and outs, you need to speak the language well, you need to understand their culture. Also, how are you planning to meet miss conservative woman?

Good women nowadays are hard to come by even for many of these local males in third world countries. If she is hot enough and from a good family, you are probably not the only interesting guy that she can find. Is she the same race as you? If she is from a difference race, your chances are even smaller.

My best advice is, go to the country you are interested in, enroll in the local university, meet lots of girls and don't bring them over till you have established a serious relationship with her.

Post: #42

If I remember correctly, the divorce rate with "mail order brides" in the US is twice as low as the average divorce rate.

This is given the fact that most men who bring foreign wives are betas who don't know what they doing.

If you read this forum, travel a lot, meet with more experienced guys and play your cards right, your chances of finding a good wife will be much better than those of the average beta chode.

Having said that, I would do it at this point. Even if you manage to lower the risk of divorce to 10%, marriage in the US is still a shitty deal for a man.

Post: #43

(12-29-2015 12:55 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  If I remember correctly, the divorce rate with "mail order brides" in the US is twice as low as the average divorce rate.

Source? According to many forum members, guys that bring women from abroad, the relationships tend not to work out so well.

Another thing, remember many of these ''mail order brides'' come from Asian or Latino families, couples that already share a similar cultural background are always more likely to make things work out.

Post: #44

(12-28-2015 08:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  So the answer is light imprisonment?

You find your Svetlana in Odessa, bring her back her at the ripe age of 20.
Knock her up, and have her live in your house out in the burbs.

Far from friends and family, in a new culture, trapped in some suburb with children, while you're out working (and presumably getting some on the side)

That's game?

Hell no, it isn't.

To be fair, actually yes it is. This is the way it normally goes in much of he world. Marriage is a family thing, in which the woman leaves her original family and becomes part of the family of the man. This is the origin of women taking their husbands family name, and in traditions like the man asking for permission from her father.

I'd be interested to see how many Ukrainian women actually objected to the form of 'light imprisonment' you described.

"So... the 'prison' is living in a nice house, in a safe middle-class American suburb, with my children, and all I have to do is take care of them whilst my husband brings home the money? And the alternative is live in this shithole? Hmm..........
I plead guilty! Lock me up!".

I'm sure there is a cooler definition of 'game', but at the end of the day, athletes retire.

Post: #45

(12-29-2015 02:55 PM)pitt Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 12:55 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  If I remember correctly, the divorce rate with "mail order brides" in the US is twice as low as the average divorce rate.

Source? According to many forum members, guys that bring women from abroad, the relationships tend not to work out so well.

Another thing, remember many of these ''mail order brides'' come from Asian or Latino families, couples that already share a similar cultural background are always more likely to make things work out.

Here's a RoK article that has supporting sources:

http://www.returnofkings.com/4658/dont-b...ign-brides

Post: #46

I think marriage is an anachronism personally. Why get married? If a girl loves you, she'll stay with you regardless of what happens. But that legally binding document issued by the government, a marriage license, won't stop her (or you) from cheating or leaving. So why bother with creating a situation where you have to give away half your stuff in a few years if you're wrong about some girl?

If you want to get married, make sure you're marrying your very best friend in the world and that you trust her implicitly. Otherwise, if you just want to get married for the sex, you're making a huge mistake. Save yourself a load of grief.

Post: #47

(12-29-2015 03:54 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  I think marriage is an anachronism personally. Why get married? If a girl loves you, she'll stay with you regardless of what happens. But that legally binding document issued by the government, a marriage license, won't stop her (or you) from cheating or leaving. So why bother with creating a situation where you have to give away half your stuff in a few years if you're wrong about some girl?

If you want to get married, make sure you're marrying your very best friend in the world and that you trust her implicitly. Otherwise, if you just want to get married for the sex, you're making a huge mistake. Save yourself a load of grief.

Completely agree. The only exception I can see is if you can't make a location independent income, and this is the only way you can bring a mother material girl over to live with you. The visa restrictions for certain countries are such that the only way they can come over to live here permanently is through marriage. Personally I don't think it's worth the risk. So for guys who want a family, I think the most logical options I've seen are:

a) Local girl, LTR
b) Foreign girl permanently living locally, LTR
c) Foreign girl brought over by fiancee or marriage visa, Marriage
d) Move overseas, Foreign girl, LTR/Marriage

262 Wrote:The statistical office of Switzerland has published some more detailed statistics: Note that to draw any conclusions, the divorce rate of mail-order marriages must be compared to the divorce rate of domestic marriages. In 1999, the divorce rate for domestic marriages (Swiss married to Swiss) in Switzerland were at a record high of 50%. In the same year (1999), marriages with foreigners are comparatively better:
...
Fantastically low divorce rates were reached at marriages with women from Colombia (20%). Marriages with women from the former USSR reached a rate of 15%; however, it must be noted that marriages between Swiss and Russians boom at the moment, and that the divorce rate is not that much meaningful, because the divorce rate rises with a time-lag.
...
Similarly, but not quite as bad, the divorce rate in marriages between Swiss and Philippine women reached 45%

What stuck out with me was how bad the divorce rate was with Filipinas. So a guy flies halfway around the world, uses up all his vacation, goes through months of frustrations of an LDR, spends all his money bringing her over, supporting her family, and dealing with immigration law only to get a 5% reduction in divorce risk? F that.

On the other hand, the 20% divorce rate for Colombian women isn't that bad. Not all foreign marriages are equal.

Post: #48

Here's another way to think about it.

Let's look at a marriage that is happy and successful(i.e. lifelong)
and another marriage that ends in divorce within 5 years.

What are the key differences? What is happening on a daily basis?

What are the daily conversations like? Exactly where do the wheels fall off
and what drives the marriage into the ground?

As a few people have already said, we know marriage is much more day to day
whereas with dating you really might only see a girl once a week for a couple
of hours.

A successful marriage requires you to have seasoned communication/diplomacy skills,
expert planning skills, patience and way more empathy than if you were just
dating a girl.

I think the reality is, living in a modern world, you simply have to become better
at the entire process from start to finish...i.e...

1. Finding high quality girls that actually demonstrate the right values/skills you're looking for.

2. Setting a communication standard and dealing with issues on the spot
before they become larger problems.

3. Planning where you will live and what kind of family support you will have in advance
before you get married...also what does she want to do? work/stay at home?

4. Dealing with attitude/behavior changes. If she's a good traditional girl then she
is unlikely to change. However that doesn't mean that you still don't need to maintain good order
and discipline as a couple/family. Take her out on Saturday nights, lead by example by staying fit
and exercising together, going to church, make life interesting for her.

5. Always have the next step planned. Back in the day, our grandparents struggled just to survive
Their only expectations were to basically have enough food to eat and pray that their children survived.
That's why they didn't divorce.

Today you have to give vision and demonstrate leadership. It's like flying a passenger plane up in the air. Not only
do you have to have an interesting destination planned but you also have deal with outside turbulence.
And if you're not a seasoned pilot then your plane might easily go down...and God help you if you have
a bad copilot who does not follow your lead.

Post: #49

(12-28-2015 09:06 PM)kinnikinik Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 02:24 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  The impression I'm getting is that the answer is:

No, you cannot you bring a woman from a foreign country over to the west without it corrupting her.

Is that a fair take?

I married a Japanese woman over 20 years ago, then soon after that brought her back to the US. Because she chose to never really work on her language skills, she's never "corrupted" much. On the other hand, I speak Japanese fluently and was very familiar with the culture, so managed to avoid forcing her to develop a support group of Americans. All of this doesn't mean I'm categorically happy in my married life (after all, I'm here, aren't I?), but we haven't had to fight all of the western bullshit. (However there was one occurrence of walking in to my home, finding my mother counselling my (relatively) new wife on US divorce law and the need to lawyer up if "you guys don't work out." I just about chewed my mom a new asshole! Damn I was pissed!)

My aunts tried to do something very similar. They are single/widowed/divorced, multiple degrees, high careered, old, and feminist as hell from the 70's. I basically had a red pill stand Davy Crockett style swinging my musket around. Got heated but I stood my ground. Now none of them try that shit with me anymore. In alot of ways doing that was a boon for me. I have a much higher leadership status in the family on both sides. I am far from perfect, but with God's help I will attain the rank of spiritual authority/leader and hopefully set the stage for the future generation of my family on both sides. It's gotta start with someone. Wisdom is burdensome. Are any of you willing to take up that yoke?

These threads keep popping up lately, so I can tell its weighing down on you guys hard. Shit none of us are getting younger. You start getting different itches that you never had in your 20s. Everyone knows my story and background here, so all I can suggest is the following:

1. Game does not stop at marriage.

2. Traditional women from traditional societies reduce the amount of game needed exponentially.

3. If you go the foreign route, knowledge of their culture (immersion) is pretty much mandatory. Notice I did not say you need complete fluency in their language.

4. Submission is more important than any other intangible a woman can have.

5. Be able to communicate effectively with each other.

6. All women smell fear. Don't be a punk bitch afraid of other thirsty men around. If she does not think you are a bit crazy, she won't ever respect you anyway. A little fear never hurt anyone. (that does not mean hit her. See above on the stand your ground part)

7. Let her know early, you would toss her out or leave at the hint of insubordination. Usually them knowing that you know WHERE TO FIND a fresh supply of pussy, is a major deterrent, within itself.

8. Be patient with her learning a new environment and get someone you feel you can trust. Picking the hottest woman available is like drafting Jadaveon Clowney when you know you need a QB instead.

9. Get someone that is just as repulsed as you would be if showed them something like, oh I dunno... The Kardashians show. My wife wanted to throw up when she found it on TV accidentally. She texted me wanting to know why people in America act like this. I knew she was like me from jump street though. We would talk about world news and stuff like that. I knew her value system well. Her dad's too.

10. Pick the in-laws as intently as the woman herself. If they are fat shaming her in front of you, don't whiteknight and take her side in front of them. Let them whip that ass for you. They don't want her to fuck up a good thing!

I hope this helps.

Post: #50

It's always good to know what you'd be on the hook for if things don't work out. After reading something like this it really makes me think twice. The summary below is just about marital assets and maintenance, child support until 21 yrs old is extra and 17%, 25%, 28% of your AGI for children 1,2,3

NYS Divorce law summary