Post: #1

I know there is an overabundance of "x destination vs. y destination" threads but I don't think anyone has covered this yet. What are some good home base options for someone building an online business from scratch? I've put together quite a stellar business plan *pats self on back*. I just need to set aside 6-12 months to get it rolling. Ideally, I'm looking for a city with a laid back vibe and not too many hedonistic distractions. Some of my requirements below:

1.) High-speed internet

2.) Low cost of living (I have about $20K in savings and I need this to last up to a year).

3.) Entrepreneurial environment. (Not a requirement per say but I find being around other motivated people in turn motivates me. )

4.) Good public transport (Aside from the expense of having a car, I hate driving frankly)

5.) Quality local women

Off the top of my head, Chiang Mai and Medellin seem like two good possibilities but I'd be curious to hear your opinions. And if anyone here has built a successful online biz while living overseas, please share your story.

Much Appreciated,

Exiled Princeling

Post: #2

You already mentioned it, but Chiang Mai is the archetypal place for a guy to come with his laptop, rent a cheap room and start a business. You'll meet plenty of like-minded people and the lifestyle and food are good. Women are not the easiest in SEA but you still should be OK.

I think Budapest is a good option too if you like living in Europe. Visas can be an issue (it's in the Schengen zone) but it's cheap and you can live in the heart of a city with great culture, hot women and decent transport.

Post: #3

I have an EU passport so Schengen is no problem. I've been to Budapest and liked it alot. It's a cheap, beautiful place and ticks a lot of boxes. The only drawback is I can't say I particularly cared for Hungarians and their women. It was a big downgrade from Prague imo.

Post: #4

Colombia will be hard to do on $20k/year, but possible. A one bedroom apartment in estrata 5 will cost you $800 per month and up. In estrata 4 it would be $500 and up.

So that leaves you with up to $14000 left. It will be super tight but possible, however in reality even just going out a couple times per week, or being reliant on cabs will put you over.

Not to mention your visa only permits you to stay for 3 months unless you are studying, employed or are investing more than a certain sum ($30k I think) in a business.

Why not get the business rolling in your part time and weekends? In the meantime pare your possessions down to two suitcases worth so that when you have the product/service ready to sell, or have your first customer then you can take a weekend to hop on a flight and arrive in your new home where you've already lined up a furnished apartment and you'll simply need to unpack two suitcases and power up your laptop.

Post: #5

Are those airBnB prices for Colombia? I've seen decent apartments in Laureles for $300 or less and that's online. I'm sure you could find cheaper options on the ground. As for visas, I can't really be bothered with them. Usually paying the overstay fee is cheaper than applying for a long-term permit anyways.

I'm working full-time in Korea at the moment. It's hard setting aside time to work on my biz but I'm trying to make a dent on it.
I'd really just like to find a place where I can go into zen mode for 6+months and get some serious shit done. Chiang Mai is looking like the best option right now. A cheap flight from Seoul too. My only concern with CM is what I've heard about the "burning season". Apparently, there's so much smog March-April it's hard to breathe. Anyone here been to CM that time of year?

Post: #6

(07-19-2014 11:57 PM)Exiled Princeling Wrote:  Are those airBnB prices for Colombia? I've seen decent apartments in Laureles for $300 or less and that's online. I'm sure you could find cheaper options on the ground. As for visas, I can't really be bothered with them. Usually paying the overstay fee is cheaper than applying for a long-term permit anyways.

What websites??? I heading to Colombia at the end of the year and looking for something cheap. AirBnB is incredibly expensive in Medellin.

Are you sure those weren't shared apartments for $300?

Post: #7

Do you already have a business making at least 1k a month? Chiang Mai cost of living is at least 1k USD a month. I would think if you aren't making anything now; you'd better stick with your job.

Post: #8

(07-20-2014 05:05 AM)roid Wrote:  Do you already have a business making at least 1k a month? Chiang Mai cost of living is at least 1k USD a month. I would think if you aren't making anything now; you'd better stick with your job.

You honestly don't think the guy has taken into consideration that he'll have living expenses wherever he ends up?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #9

(07-19-2014 11:44 PM)ASOT Wrote:  Not to mention your visa only permits you to stay for 3 months unless you are studying, employed or are investing more than a certain sum ($30k I think) in a business.

But you can extend your visa to 6 months if you want.

Post: #10

I'm going to do the same and am probably going to go to Bangkok and Chiang Mai (never been to Asia though so don't really know what it would be like). Out of everywhere that I have been, Krakow would be the best.

Post: #11

Is temporarily moving home an option?

If I were you I'd quit the job and go back home for a few months to get the business going. Jet off to SEA once you have some revenue coming in. In fact, that is my plan. 20k should last a while but you really do want to hold onto your savings rather than burning through them.

Post: #12

^ That's a good idea. Depends on the business model though. For a service business, you can start making cash within a couple weeks.

If not a service, it's still dependent on your skills and how much you know about IM. For instance, I'm pretty confident I could throw an income-producing site together over a week or two and have it producing something pretty fast, and from there it's a matter of scaling. But I've had fingers in the game for quite some time. And have done just that before.

If OP is a complete rookie, on the other hand, there will be a learning curve. I'd say if he was serious about it, has a decent head on his shoulders, and actually puts his hours in every day as soon as he arrives instead of fucking off (like one asshole we know always does cough cough), he could probably make it happen. He wouldn't be the first.

But none of the above criteria are givens. And again, highly dependent on business model.

There's also the option of starting right now where he stands, part-time, and then running with it after he proves to himself he can make a dime or two. Waiting for everything to be perfect before you start a business is not the best way to go about things and often means never getting going.

Chiang Mai is where I started my business, but only because I happened to be there at the time that I got serious about it. Public transport isn't much to write home about, but you might as well consider tuk tuks and moto taxis public transport. That's pretty much how they're used in Southeast Asia. Any of the other usual suspects will do as well.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #13

OP,
I'd also suggest Saigon in Vietnam and Davao in the Philippines. They do tick all your boxes. Guangzhou and Shenzhen in China too as a matter of fact.

Post: #14

(07-20-2014 08:22 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ That's a good idea. Depends on the business model though. For a service business, you can start making cash within a couple weeks.

If not a service, it's still dependent on your skills and how much you know about IM. For instance, I'm pretty confident I could throw an income-producing site together over a week or two and have it producing something pretty fast, and from there it's a matter of scaling. But I've had fingers in the game for quite some time. And have done just that before.

If OP is a complete rookie, on the other hand, there will be a learning curve. I'd say if he was serious about it, has a decent head on his shoulders, and actually puts his hours in every day as soon as he arrives instead of fucking off (like one asshole we know always does cough cough), he could probably make it happen. He wouldn't be the first.

But none of the above criteria are givens. And again, highly dependent on business model.

There's also the option of starting right now where he stands, part-time, and then running with it after he proves to himself he can make a dime or two. Waiting for everything to be perfect before you start a business is not the best way to go about things and often means never getting going.

Chiang Mai is where I started my business, but only because I happened to be there at the time that I got serious about it. Public transport isn't much to write home about, but you might as well consider tuk tuks and moto taxis public transport. That's pretty much how they're used in Southeast Asia. Any of the other usual suspects will do as well.

Thanks for your post, BB. It is a service business (copywriting/direct marketing). In all likelihood, I will start making decent money within the first month or two. I've been self-studying the concepts for a while now and I'm getting to the stage where I need to put together a portfolio, build a website, find clients,etc..

Obviously, I'm trying to get as much of that out of the way now while I'm employed. But after a 9+ hour day, my creative brainpower is somewhat reduced.

Could you tell me more about your experience in Chiang Mai? Is a nice place to live? Did you run into other internet entrepreneurs while you were there?

Post: #15

Not to derail the thread but what do the guys making decent income online do taxwise? In Australia if I was to go overseas and start earning an online income which was going in to my Australian bank account i would be a non resident for tax purposes. This means I would be taxed from the first dollar i earn where if I was in Australia I dont pay tax on the first 18k I earn

Post: #16

How about having a bank account outside Oz?

My plan is to incorporate in Hong Kong. As long as the transaction take places out of HK, my earnings are tax-free. There's really no reason to pay taxes if you have an internet biz. The trickier question is what to do about payment processing. Paypal has some rather high currency conversion fees...

Post: #17

(07-20-2014 08:14 AM)dreambig Wrote:  Is temporarily moving home an option?

If I were you I'd quit the job and go back home for a few months to get the business going. Jet off to SEA once you have some revenue coming in. In fact, that is my plan. 20k should last a while but you really do want to hold onto your savings rather than burning through them.

This. I had the wonderful idea of quitting when I had 15K and two months later I'm around 2.4K. According to my estimate I should be at 10K but crazy unexpected shit happens.

Make sure you have a lot of cash saved up, have some cash in a reserve stash (tell a family member to save it so you can't access it quickly and spend it), and/or have some revenue coming in from elsewhere.

(07-20-2014 08:22 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ That's a good idea. Depends on the business model though. For a service business, you can start making cash within a couple weeks.

If not a service, it's still dependent on your skills and how much you know about IM. For instance, I'm pretty confident I could throw an income-producing site together over a week or two and have it producing something pretty fast, and from there it's a matter of scaling. But I've had fingers in the game for quite some time. And have done just that before.

If OP is a complete rookie, on the other hand, there will be a learning curve. I'd say if he was serious about it, has a decent head on his shoulders, and actually puts his hours in every day as soon as he arrives instead of fucking off (like one asshole we know always does cough cough), he could probably make it happen. He wouldn't be the first.

You should think about giving copywriting and marketing bootcamps.

Post: #18

^I don't have a "home" to go back to unfortunately...hence my username.

My best bet is to move somewhere extremely cheap where I can keep my expenses low while I'm building my client-base. In a place like Chiang Mai I could always pick up ESL work if need be. It looks like I'm kind of answering my own question lol.

Post: #19

I'm personally going to either Saigon or Warsaw to keep bootstrapping my online biz. I'll be leaving within 8 months time.

Very tough decision for me to make. But I thrive in warm weather. Saigon has abundant cafes with wifi and a high work ethic/buzzing energy from what I've learned.

Honestly I'm only considering Warsaw for the women (as I have an EU passport too). But I think that's a distraction. Sometimes we just have to fucking focus on business lol.

So basically I'm pretty set on Saigon for all of the reasons you've discussed. Oh and visas are simple there. Only downside to Saigon is that most women there aren't really "sexually liberated" from what I can tell, but we really can't have it all can we?

Post: #20

(07-20-2014 02:56 PM)Exiled Princeling Wrote:  Thanks for your post, BB. It is a service business (copywriting/direct marketing). In all likelihood, I will start making decent money within the first month or two. I've been self-studying the concepts for a while now and I'm getting to the stage where I need to put together a portfolio, build a website, find clients,etc..

Obviously, I'm trying to get as much of that out of the way now while I'm employed. But after a 9+ hour day, my creative brainpower is somewhat reduced.

Could you tell me more about your experience in Chiang Mai? Is a nice place to live? Did you run into other internet entrepreneurs while you were there?

20K in savings and a service business, using a skill you're already studying?

Yeah, you're good then. Don't let any dissuade you from this - some people will always seek possible points of failure and as a result always discourage others from taking risks. They're simply cut from a different cloth than you, so don't even bother trying to relate.

You could be making money within a couple weeks. I've seen guys do it plenty of times. I've done it myself.

By your writing, I can tell you've got a decent head on your shoulders and know how to sling a word or two together. Given the savings cushion, the only thing way you could really fail at this is procrastination and self-discipline, which I admit are huge obstacles to conquer.

Chiang Mai is an awesome place to live. I've posted about my experiences in some of the Chiang Mai and Thailand threads here. There are definitely a ton of online entrepreneurs there, but I don't associate with other foreigners often so I only met a few.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #21

(07-20-2014 10:47 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  So basically I'm pretty set on Saigon for all of the reasons you've discussed. Oh and visas are simple there. Only downside to Saigon is that most women there aren't really "sexually liberated" from what I can tell, but we really can't have it all can we?

You can only corrupt what hasn't already been corrupted.

Post: #22

The hunt for online biz paradise is similar to poosy paradise, it probably don't exist.

For me the basics of strictly biz related factors needed:

- Warm weather year round or seasonal but with nature around (skiing in winter etc)
- Good value for money, ability to live cheap
- De facto ease of doing business
- Low taxes and strong property rights
- High speed and stable internet
- Good population of online biz people for networking
- Skilled and english speaking population
- Access to venture capital if needed

Few places match those. Thailand matches a lot of them but falls flat on ease of doing business legally and the locals lack skills. There are a lot of people working online though, Bangkok probably has the most of them in the world. Chiang Mai can be dirt cheap, but I have no idea of it would get boring after a while. Philippines has much of the same as Thailand, less legal problems, access to designers, customer support, writing etc at low rates, but is more unstable and noticeable less safe.

Berlin is relatively cheap and a hot spot for startups in IT, good location in the middle of Europe. I've heard that Budapest and other EE countries are on the uprise. Estonia has a big IT sector and very favorable laws and taxes. Southern Spain is an option, weather is nice, can deduct tons of stuff from your taxes. Bali seems to be an overlooked option, the guy from TropicalMBA.com talks about it very positively. Hong Kong and Singapore are excellent on almost all points but very expensive Singapore has a thriving affiliate marketing and online marketing sector. Taiwan is something I looked into and still consider once I leave from my Euro hiatus. Has a good sized tech and software dev sector, good weather, nature etc, reasonable cost of living.

Easiest place to pack your bags and leave on a whim is Thailand. The infrastructure is in place, lots of people have done it before, easy to get setup, but imo can become a trap due to lack of professional culture and legal protection and a temptation to adjust to tropical layabout lifestyle.

I've considered Poland as well, but I very much doubt I'd want to stay in the winter or even Autumn. Of course, you could split your time between the two.

I was in Saigon and really liked it, some great cafes to work from while drinking that local coffee with the caramelized milk. More of an entrepreneurial and growing place than Thailand. Some logistical problems though like healthcare and traffic, so make sure to get insurance at least.