Post: #1

I'm in an open LTR (I'm 23 She's 21) and I've soaked up as much game/red pill knowledge as I could and try to apply those principles to my relationship.

However, there's one habit she has that's really annoying that I can't figure out. Whenever I pass judgment on anything she makes it about her. Like to a ridiculous extent.

Examples:

Me: I don't like babydoll shirts. I think they look like tit-drapes.
Her: Would you like how they looked on me?
Me: No. That's why it's good you don't wear them.

(Keep in mind I've never seen her wear one of these. She doesn't have one in her wardrobe, and she wasn't wearing one at the time.)

_____________________________________

At times she'll ask when it is about her, but it'll be completely redundant.

Me:You shouldn't wear those kind of shoes. I don't like it when girls wear those kind of shoes.
Her:Do you like it when I wear those kind of shoes?
Me: No. That's why I just told you not to wear them.
___________________
Examples like the following are what really confound me.

We were watching MSNBC and their was a guest host whom I didn't care for.

Me : This replacement host sucks. He's completely uninteresting. Why would this bland dude have this high status position? If I were in charge of NBC and I could hire someone for 6 figures, it wouldn't be this guy. That wouldn't be the type of guy I would hire.

Her: Would I be the type of person you'd hire?
Me: No, and can we get the conversation off of you. I'm trying to talk about national TV personalities.

_________________________________
They are so numerous and mind-numbing that I often just ignore them or tell her that isn't a righteous question and it's stupid. (Patrice)

FYI: She's not asking them in jest, she asks them seriously and is emotional about it, like she's scared to hear the answer cause her self esteem is riding on it.

They question is why is she hyper-personalizing everything to an absurd degree. She's emotional but she isn't the narcissistic selfie-taking type American girl. She just turns every judgment I make about anything into a question about how I feel about her.

I'd understand (I'd still think it was dumb but at least I'd know the 'rationale') if it were only for things that would be relevant to our relationship. Things like the last example throw that off though and makes me think there's something wrong with her. It's a red-flag but I don't know what's wrong or if this is normal behavior.

Any insight?
Also what should I do to stop this? I'm considering putting her on timeout and not talking to her for a couple minutes everytime she does that.

Timeout has worked for other problems that have arisen in the relationship. But this issue is so prevalent and common she'd go back to timeout in half a minute of talking.

TL; DR
Girlfriend turns every judgement/comment I make about something into a question of if I feel that way about her. She does this with no regard to the subject matter of the original judgement/comment.

Post: #2

Best response is ignore it without seeming angry, or brush it off with a hearty "Heh" or cackle because it's hilarious.

As to why? It reminds me of a girlfriend who loved waxing hypothetical... from the ridiculous "what would you do if we were at your parent's house and i started talking about our sex life??" to the darker "well what if i lost a limb?", generally taking the form of "what if i [more exaggerated version of something witnessed or read about or imagined]?"

I think it's essentially a lighter form of shit test: more of a probe for character, as well as a grasp for drama/entertainment. The girlfriend I speak of would seemingly appreciate a well thought-out response as much as a joking exaggeration, but would HATE any kind of "that would never happen, so no I don't know" logical response. I eventually turned it into a joke about "you and those hypotheticals!" and she started to joke about her hypotheticals as well.

You're probably in a good spot: she cares what you think and loves the attention. You have standards and she yearns to feel them imposed on her.

Post: #3

You sound kind of like a stick in the mud. All your examples are you complaining about things. Maybe you should worry about changing your outlook on life more then worrying about your girlfriend making things about her.

Post: #4

K. I'll make sure not to show that it gets to me (the rare occasions it does). Yeah I never say anything that remotely sounds like I'm trying to appease her. I generally just answer honestly, unless there is comedy to be had making some shit up. Next time me and her hang out I'll write down some more examples. It happens so often and they are ridiculous.

Post: #5

Welcome to the Game.

These boys gonna tell you the Roissy 5

1) Agree and Amplify
2) Ignore/Change the subject
3) Joke/Mock her
4) Accuse her of the Same
5) Misinterpret

That's fine in a pick up situation, but it's not a long term solution.

Some yokel is probably gonna tell you that you aren't fucking her right, and you need to be more alpha. And she wouldn't put that shit on Fight Club's Tyler Durden..... If only your muscles were harder, dick bigger, bank account fatter, more chicks ringing your celly - would she act right.

Those dudes don't have enough experience in the real world. Bitch gone do, what she gone do. And even if she's hit the wall, she still thinks she has options.

LTR Game - handling a woman day in and day out, when you've got things invested, important things you can lose is the hardest form of game there is.

Some random club chick that stands me up for a dinner date, no problem. I'll head back out there. That 100 bucks I would have spent, just gets moved to myself and the next chick. Lost some time, but it is what it is.

When my live in girlfriend decided to make my life a living hell? That's a problem.

At the outset, it looks like SHE has a problem. She's the one that's self-centered and selfish and self-interested. She's the one with no compassion, empathy for others, or the ability to see outside herself.

At best, you can hope she learns to look outside of herself when she has a child. Surprise, Surprise, she'll use that myopia thinking that the child is a mere extension of herself.

But the real problem here is with you. Not her.

Now that you've recognized this girl for who she truly is, what do *you* do?

Try and communicate your needs? (cause she's so amenable to that)

Do you throw everything away and bounce?

Do you engage in heavy behavior modification and applied psychology?

There are no stories you can tell, or withdrawing some attention, or any kind of "communication" that will cause a deep change in her character and behavior.

If such a thing existed, all of us would use it to
- work hard at our jobs and businesses
- work out and eat right
- run game at the highest level

But it doesn't.

What are you willing to do?

Taking the Red Pill means there are no easy answers and cheat codes. There are no hacks. It's tough decision after tough decision, where you will get hurt and you will hurt others.

WIA

Post: #6

Small character traits that irritate you now, will only be magnified as the LTR progresses.

Do you want to deal with that all of the time? If not, then eject.

Sidebar: There's not a chick alive that's perfect, so keep that in mind.

Post: #7

(07-14-2014 08:03 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  You sound kind of like a stick in the mud. All your examples are you complaining about things. Maybe you should worry about changing your outlook on life more then worrying about your girlfriend making things about her.

I am a stick in the mud. It's something I'm working on. There are examples of me having positive judgments she asks if they apply to her though. I just don't remember them. Those three just stuck in my mind/were recent.

Quote:Sidebar: There's not a chick alive that's perfect, so keep that in mind.

Yeah I know. I'm just making sure this wasn't a giant red-flag that I was unaware. Everything else with her is good on paper, long hair, minimal tattoos, great relationship with her father. He's a great powerful guy.

She's an ex-feminist though, so there's always that doubt for me.

Post: #8

(07-14-2014 06:00 PM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  TL; DR
Girlfriend turns every judgement/comment I make about something into a question of if I feel that way about her. She does this with no regard to the subject matter of the original judgement/comment.

If women are questioning your feelings directly, then you have long since set the expectation that you will tolerate that behavior.

For reference, the strongest question I will get about my commitment to a girl is, after a couple months, she might ask me to add her on facebook or if I want to meet some of her friends.

Questions you might want to ask yourself:

Do you set examples regularly that you are the leader and in charge of the relationship?

Do you accept her input and make the final decision about stuff you guys are going to do, or is it a mutual decision?

Are you displaying some form of relationship dominance regularly? e.g. incidents that you're indicate you're running the show, making her feel protected, physically and emotionally safe

Simply the fact that you are her boyfriend should indicate the level of your commitment and feelings. Any being questioned about that is a sign that there is in fact room for question. Taken with a grain of salt that the girl is 21, eg will have obvious insecurities.

Post: #9

You should dump her, realize your value as a young man and build a harem.

Nothing will hold you back more as a 23 year old man than a girlfriend.

Remember, you get her pregnant, there goes your life. Accidents happen a lot easier in "relationships". You've thought this through, right?

Seriously though, whats lacking in your life that you have all of this time to think about her dumb behavior?

Post: #10

Quote:She's emotional but she isn't the narcissistic selfie-taking type American girl. She just turns every judgment I make about anything into a question about how I feel about her.

On the contrary, she is the narcissistic self-centered type, lack of selfies notwithstanding.

Next her accordingly, or put some distance between you and this BS.

Post: #11

I had a girlfriend like this. Looking back years later I can see that she didn't know where she stood with me ( because I actually didn't love her, but I think she loved me ) so it's a form of neediness, approval seeking because I wasn't showing her that she was in my heart. IOW, she was insecure so she kept pinging me for approval. Look,

Quote:Her: Would you like how they looked on me?

Quote:Her: Would I be the type of person you'd hire?

Quote:Her: Would you like how they looked on me?

She's seeking your approval.

Show her some love already bro....or set her free ( I should have set my girl free, I was a dick and it all got so boring )

Post: #12

(07-14-2014 09:03 PM)Zep Wrote:  Show her some love already bro....

How though without coming off beta/being taken advantage of? Listening to Patrice/reading these dating/marriage horror stories makes it so I can never really let off or be unguarded.

Quote:Seriously though, whats lacking in your life that you have all of this time to think about her dumb behavior?

It's not that something is lacking. I just have grand plans for the kind of relationship I want in the future. If it works with her in the long term great. If not it is much needed practice for my future goal.

Quote:Remember, you get her pregnant, there goes your life. Accidents happen a lot easier in "relationships". You've thought about this though, right?

She has an IUD.

Post: #13

(07-14-2014 09:32 PM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  

Quote:Seriously though, whats lacking in your life that you have all of this time to think about her dumb behavior?

It's not that something is lacking. I just have grand plans for the kind of relationship I want in the future. If it works with her in the long term great. If not it is much needed practice for my future goal.

The only practice you need is how to stop putting women on a pedestal like this. Do you think that by "practicing", someday you will never have problems with women? Or you'll be able handle it better? This is nothing bro. This is like not even putting on your sweatpants and tying your shoes before you get to practice.

The only way to learn how to deal with woman's behavior is to either be an absolute master of self control(very few are), or experience many. You'll be better equipped to handle this someday, with the self confidence from banging and approaching lots of women. Its a waste of time as a young man, these are old man problems. Too much fun to be had when you are 23.

Post: #14

bring out the big guns. radio silence for a whole weekend, then when she comes crying back make everything about you. get in therrrreee

Post: #15

(07-14-2014 08:11 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  At the outset, it looks like SHE has a problem. She's the one that's self-centered and selfish and self-interested. She's the one with no compassion, empathy for others, or the ability to see outside herself.

I'm going to go on a different tack and say that it's possible that
1. She has all of these shitty characteristics, and maybe that's who she is.
2. She's using this as manipulation

If it's 2, it could be a subconscious manipulation. Watch her with her father. Does she do this to him?

My first reaction is that it's validation seeking. I'm thinking she's either trying to get you to qualify your desire for her, or she's trying to frame it as "you don't like X, do I have/do X? No? See, I'm perfect for you!". The part you have to figure out is, is she a #1, or a #2, and if she's a #2 what is she trying to manipulate you to do? Or is there a #3 that I didn't hit on.

(07-14-2014 08:11 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  At best, you can hope she learns to look outside of herself when she has a child.

The downfall of many a man. A child will never make the relationship easier.

Post: #16

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them; the first time"

RIP Maya Angelou

Post: #17

(07-14-2014 06:00 PM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  I'm in an open LTR (I'm 23 She's 21)

Wait, I missed that. An "open LTR" - as in you can date other girls?

I'm calling insecurity about the relationship on her part.

Post: #18

Newsflash: Water is wet

Women are selfish self-serving little children. Is she still giving up the booty?
Then who cares what she says. Just shove your cock in her mouth and tell
her what she wants to her.

Post: #19

Paul Janka was right. LTRs are a woman's domain.

In this case, it's all about her and that won't change at 21 or 51.

Post: #20

Let me get this straight. You have a long term girlfriend who is a little insecure, and looks up to you for validation.

You're hearing this as an annoyance, rather than hearing your girl genuinely caring about what you want, in an effort to make you happy.

Is this really problem?

Post: #21

(07-15-2014 04:04 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  Let me get this straight. You have a long term girlfriend who is a little insecure, and looks up to you for validation.

You're hearing this as an annoyance, rather than hearing your girl genuinely caring about what you want, in an effort to make you happy.

Is this really problem?

Depends on who you ask. Non-productive questions are a pet peeve of mine. Also I didn't see it as looking up to me for validation. I saw it as some bizarre shit test I didn't understand. The questions are so random. It's not just "do I look nice".

(07-15-2014 10:36 AM)RockHard Wrote:  

(07-14-2014 06:00 PM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  I'm in an open LTR (I'm 23 She's 21)

Wait, I missed that. An "open LTR" - as in you can date other girls?

I'm calling insecurity about the relationship on her part.

I can't date other girls but I can f*ck em. We'll be in different states (far far states) for a about a year 3 weeks from now so I wanted to get that going before I left to let her know the openness is not because we are going to be far away. But because I'm young, wanna work on game, and wanna be with women when I'm young.

Ever since I swung for the relationship to be open (this was extremely difficult), all the shit tests have increased expectedly and drastically.

She stays with me Thurs-Sun (this is why I have no new examples) and it's been tough the weekends since it opened.

This particular habit of hers has always existed though, I only just recently realized how possibly narcissistic it is. When it wasn't as ridiculous I think I just ignored it.

So far the collective seems to believe it's a possible issue but most likely just typically girl shit and not a giant red-flag. I was just really caught off guard by it because in all other ways she doesn't act narcissistic.

Post: #22

(07-15-2014 10:41 PM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  I was just really caught off guard by it because in all other ways she doesn't act narcissistic.

Look, I mean this as constructive criticism but...

You want to have a LONG distance open relationship with a girl for a year and you think SHE's the narcissistic one?

You should look inwards. Why would you try to keep a long distance relationship for a year if you want to date other women and work on your game? There's no reason but your own ego.

Post: #23

A 21 year old girl who thinks the world revolves around her?!

Post: #24

Have you tried telling her to shut the fuck up?

Post: #25

(07-15-2014 10:41 PM)Sir Vigorous Wrote:  Ever since I swung for the relationship to be open (this was extremely difficult), all the shit tests have increased expectedly and drastically.

That's what I thought.

Dude, open relationships are a tough pill for a chick to swallow. In my experience the girls into this are 5 and below or over age 40, because for once the market is in their favor. They get on OKCupid, put "available" in their relationship status, and every guy on OKC sees "easy sex!" overlaid on every picture on her profile. The over 40 chicks put all kinds of stuff on there about how they really want a strong, alpha guy - shaved head, ex military, man's man, all the fucking cliches, because they married a nice beta provider and crave that. The young uglies don't care, they just like the attention, and they have a man at home so the sex is a bonus. A side BF to them is like buying a vibrator with legs.

If your chick is young and attractive, what does she get from an open relationship? It's a testament to your value to her that she agreed to do it at all. I'm saying a little validation isn't going to spoil her.