Post: #201

http://news.yahoo.com/poll-americans-coo...itics.html

Poll: Americans cool to border-crossing children

SAN DIEGO (AP) — Americans are wary of granting refugee status to children crossing the U.S. border to flee strife-torn countries in Central America, and most in an Associated Press-GfK poll say the U.S. does not have a moral obligation to accept asylum seekers generally.

The new poll found 53 percent of Americans believe the United States has no moral obligation to offer asylum to people who escape violence or political persecution, while 44 percent believe it has that responsibility.

And more than half, 52 percent, say children who say they are fleeing gang violence in Central America should not be treated as refugees, while 46 percent say they should.

The responses expose a partisan rift, with 70 percent of Republicans saying Central American children should not be treated as refugees compared with 62 percent of Democrats who believe they should. On whether the United States has an obligation to accept people fleeing violence or political persecution, 66 percent of Republicans say it does not and 57 percent of Democrats say it does.

Post: #202

http://news.yahoo.com/chicken-pox-halts-...14566.html

Chicken pox halts immigrant processing at New Mexico center

ALBUQUERQUE N.M. (Reuters) - U.S. border authorities have suspended the processing of undocumented immigrants at a center in New Mexico after one of the detainees was diagnosed with chicken pox, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement said on Wednesday.

The case was discovered earlier this week at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, where more than 600 people are being held for processing after entering the United States illegally, said ICE spokeswoman Gillian Christensen.

"The individual is being treated by medical professionals and the necessary precautions are being taken to protect the other detainees at the center," Christensen said.

The decision to suspend processing was taken immediately after the illness came to light, she added.

The center in Artesia began receiving immigrants earlier this month during a surge of arrivals across the southern U.S. border, many of them youths from Central America.

The inflow put pressure on border and customs authorities in Texas, leading the federal government to transport many of the immigrants to centers such as the one in Artesia for processing.

In some areas, plans to house the new arrivals have prompted street protests by critics who accuse the Obama administration of failing to secure the border.

Post: #203

(07-31-2014 11:48 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  http://news.yahoo.com/poll-americans-coo...itics.html

Poll: Americans cool to border-crossing children

SAN DIEGO (AP) — Americans are wary of granting refugee status to children crossing the U.S. border to flee strife-torn countries in Central America, and most in an Associated Press-GfK poll say the U.S. does not have a moral obligation to accept asylum seekers generally.

The new poll found 53 percent of Americans believe the United States has no moral obligation to offer asylum to people who escape violence or political persecution, while 44 percent believe it has that responsibility.

And more than half, 52 percent, say children who say they are fleeing gang violence in Central America should not be treated as refugees, while 46 percent say they should.

The responses expose a partisan rift, with 70 percent of Republicans saying Central American children should not be treated as refugees compared with 62 percent of Democrats who believe they should. On whether the United States has an obligation to accept people fleeing violence or political persecution, 66 percent of Republicans say it does not and 57 percent of Democrats say it does.

A major problem here is how do we prove that a kid is a refugee fleeing violence? I thought refugee status is for people who would literally be killed if they returned or if there is some natural disaster like a tsunami or something that made their country uninhabitable. Fleeing gang violence and poverty is hardly reason for instant refugee status. The murder rate on the South Side of Chicago or Camden, New Jersey rivals anything in Central America, but those people that live wouldn't be given asylum to go live in Canada or Sweden.

If I was one of these kids, even if a gang weren't threantening me, I'd just say that was the case if it would allow me to stay. How is anyone going to actually prove what I said? I'd just say whatever I had to say to get asylum. Then on top of that thousands more kids will come every month making the same claim and then we have to take all them in too?

Post: #204

Did Glenn Beck just say he was going to help out the illegal immigrant children? Not sure if genuine but I never would have thought Glenn Beck would do this. I was like "WTF"?

Post: #205

(07-31-2014 12:06 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  A major problem here is how do we prove that a kid is a refugee fleeing violence? I thought refugee status is for people who would literally be killed if they returned or if there is some natural disaster like a tsunami or something that made their country uninhabitable. Fleeing gang violence and poverty is hardly reason for instant refugee status. The murder rate on the South Side of Chicago or Camden, New Jersey rivals anything in Central America, but those people that live wouldn't be given asylum to go live in Canada or Sweden.

I think you're biased because you see these people fleeing gang violence back home only to join street gangs in Cali, then prison gangs. You wonder, how dangerous can it be down there if people find time to drink, f*ck and have kids they don't plan top take care of?

Post: #206

(07-31-2014 12:39 PM)MidWest Wrote:  Did Glenn Beck just say he was going to help out the illegal immigrant children? Not sure if genuine but I never would have thought Glenn Beck would do this. I was like "WTF"?

Yeah I too was

This is the same guy that thinks Obama is an illegal alien from Kenya.

Post: #207

Post: #208

Post: #209

(07-31-2014 12:56 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 12:39 PM)MidWest Wrote:  Did Glenn Beck just say he was going to help out the illegal immigrant children? Not sure if genuine but I never would have thought Glenn Beck would do this. I was like "WTF"?

Yeah I too was

This is the same guy that thinks Obama is an illegal alien from Kenya.

Probably 90%+ of Americans want to help these children. We are not cold hearted.

But there is a HUGE difference in helping out some kids, and bankrupting our country taking in millions and millions of illegal immigrants who will suck our govt. dry in welfare and food stamps and Medicaid/Medicare.

The REAL help for these kids would be to fix the countries they came from. But there are two problems with that...

#1) To fix these countries they need a free market. Their govt. has too much control of their economies so the people have no chance to grow, innovate, create and build. The are stuck in the mud. The problem is, this is the preferred economic model of the Democratic party. So why would you change something you think is perfect, even if it is causing chaos.

#2) The Honduras citizens voted their corrupt dictator out of office just a few years ago. Their Supreme Court upheld the decision. But the dictator refused to leave. What did Obama and Hillary do? They backed this brutal dictator and said it was okay for him to stay.

This country is heading for some real bad times.

Post: #210

Some countries will always be relatively poor. There's nothing anyone can do that will turn Honduras into an economic powerhouse like Singapore. Democracy, dictorship it's not going to make much difference. Bringing them here is in their best interest but it isn't in ours. We're talking impoverished people with no means supporting themselves, who won't be contributing significantly to the tax base and whose kids will need to be educated, fed and cared for by the tax payer. If it was only a very tiny number of people that did this, we could absorb it, but you have people in the tens of millions in the country illegally. How long can this keep going on?

And I hate to say it, but we are probably getting the most low IQ segment of these societies. People that tend to have kids with no means of supporting them tend to be low IQ. And the same is true of Americans as well so this isn't some racist shit I'm saying. I don't know any high IQ people that behave this way as they tend to have the smarts to plan their families long-term. The educated and middle class professional people in Latin America are really no different than us. They tend to defer having kids until they can support them and then they usually have just two like we do in the western countries. But with the poorest and least able segment of these socities, they have lots of kids even though they have little means of supporting the kids. So now they get sent here and our tax payers have to support them.

Right now 1 in 10 people in L.A. is an illegal immigrant, and the welfare they are getting totals to $1.6 billion. And that's not even including the cost of education, that's just the welfare. And that's just ONE city. Imagine the talley for the entire country.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/la-illegal-ali...id/526239/

I don't have any problem with immigrants, but we can't have a country where we just hand out all this free shit when they have an anchor baby. We need to bring in people with skills and who will build businesses and not people who will be needy on social services. The country is already $17 trillion dollars in debt. One day we are going to kill the goose(tax payer) that's laying the golden eggs.

Post: #211

(07-31-2014 03:33 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  And I hate to say it, but we are probably getting the most low IQ segment of these societies. People that tend to have kids with no means of supporting them tend to be low IQ. And the same is true of Americans as well so this isn't some racist shit I'm saying. I don't know any high IQ people that behave this way as they tend to have the smarts to plan their families long-term.

Agreed. Although remember that during the early 20th century, the US also had an enormous flow of immigrants from Europe, particularly Italians, Jews, Irish etc. Many of them were just as poor and uneducated. Granted, they arrived legally. Those people did assimilate, learned the language, took on middle-class professions and so on. Time will tell, I guess.

Post: #212

(07-31-2014 04:05 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  Agreed. Although remember that during the early 20th century, the US also had an enormous flow of immigrants from Europe, particularly Italians, Jews, Irish etc. Many of them were just as poor and uneducated. Granted, they arrived legally. Those people did assimilate, learned the language, took on middle-class professions and so on. Time will tell, I guess.

Yeah, but wasn't that during a time of economic expansion and growth? What are the economics now versus then ... GDP, food stamps, welfare, etc.? Learn the language and assimilate ... possibly? Times are changing.

Post: #213

(07-31-2014 04:11 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 04:05 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  Agreed. Although remember that during the early 20th century, the US also had an enormous flow of immigrants from Europe, particularly Italians, Jews, Irish etc. Many of them were just as poor and uneducated. Granted, they arrived legally. Those people did assimilate, learned the language, took on middle-class professions and so on. Time will tell, I guess.

Yeah, but wasn't that during a time of economic expansion and growth? What are the economics now versus then ... GDP, food stamps, welfare, etc.? Learn the language and assimilate ... possibly? Times are changing.

The majority of Mexican immigrants came during the the Reagan, and Clinton years, hence good economic times and growth. That wave started to dwindle down during the Bush years and pretty much halted now during the Obama administration which now Obama claims the title of "first president to do more for to secure the border than any other president". But immigrants aren't coming anymore because Obama is "tough" on immigration, they aren't coming here because the U.S. economy sucks and Mexico's is getting better.

Its a simple issue of supply and demand. When economic times are good, the demand for cheap labor is at an all-time high and somehow, someway that demand is met with illegal immigration. Same goes for the drugs and cartel problem. When the demand for drugs is high, and its illegal, somehow someway someone is going to meet that demand (drug cartels in Mexico). That's why the war on cartels in Mexico is not working, but that's another story altogether.

Post: #214

(07-31-2014 04:05 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 03:33 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  And I hate to say it, but we are probably getting the most low IQ segment of these societies. People that tend to have kids with no means of supporting them tend to be low IQ. And the same is true of Americans as well so this isn't some racist shit I'm saying. I don't know any high IQ people that behave this way as they tend to have the smarts to plan their families long-term.

Agreed. Although remember that during the early 20th century, the US also had an enormous flow of immigrants from Europe, particularly Italians, Jews, Irish etc. Many of them were just as poor and uneducated. Granted, they arrived legally. Those people did assimilate, learned the language, took on middle-class professions and so on. Time will tell, I guess.

Yes, only time will tell. But the problem with immigration is that it's entirely irreversible short of a violent ethnic cleansing. Look at France, they now have all these Muslims that are growing at a faster rate than the native French. And there are lots of social problems with Muslim youth. Once you decide to throw open your immigration policy you are inevitably going to permanently alter the demographics of your country. And if it doesn't turn out well decades down the line, there's no reversing it. I think immigration is something that should be carefully thought out and there should be public dialog.

Post: #215

(07-31-2014 03:33 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Some countries will always be relatively poor. There's nothing anyone can do that will turn Honduras into an economic powerhouse like Singapore.

Not disagreeing with you, but why do you think this?

Post: #216

(07-31-2014 03:33 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Some countries will always be relatively poor. There's nothing anyone can do that will turn Honduras into an economic powerhouse like Singapore. Democracy, dictorship it's not going to make much difference. Bringing them here is in their best interest but it isn't in ours. We're talking impoverished people with no means supporting themselves, who won't be contributing significantly to the tax base and whose kids will need to be educated, fed and cared for by the tax payer. If it was only a very tiny number of people that did this, we could absorb it, but you have people in the tens of millions in the country illegally. How long can this keep going on?

And I hate to say it, but we are probably getting the most low IQ segment of these societies. People that tend to have kids with no means of supporting them tend to be low IQ. And the same is true of Americans as well so this isn't some racist shit I'm saying. I don't know any high IQ people that behave this way as they tend to have the smarts to plan their families long-term. The educated and middle class professional people in Latin America are really no different than us. They tend to defer having kids until they can support them and then they usually have just two like we do in the western countries. But with the poorest and least able segment of these socities, they have lots of kids even though they have little means of supporting the kids. So now they get sent here and our tax payers have to support them.

Right now 1 in 10 people in L.A. is an illegal immigrant, and the welfare they are getting totals to $1.6 billion. And that's not even including the cost of education, that's just the welfare. And that's just ONE city. Imagine the talley for the entire country.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/la-illegal-ali...id/526239/

I don't have any problem with immigrants, but we can't have a country where we just hand out all this free shit when they have an anchor baby. We need to bring in people with skills and who will build businesses and not people who will be needy on social services. The country is already $17 trillion dollars in debt. One day we are going to kill the goose(tax payer) that's laying the golden eggs.

You are right, a country like Honduras would most likely never be an economic powerhouse. But if we could at least help get rid of these brutal dictators and give their people a chance to support themselves outside of illegal means.

Everything else you said I agree with. We cannot afford this. What is better for these illegals...

#1) Kick them out, make the USA stronger, and then able to send more aid to them in their home countries.

#2) Let them stay here, bankrupt the USA, and we are all fucked.

And as you pointed out, the real problem is the low IQ losers having children they can't afford. Nature would handle this on their own, and today we are compassionate, so we ask the responsible to pay for the irresponsible. Seems the easiest fix is to limit how many kids you can have based on some form of proving you to be responsible for them before hand.

Post: #217

(07-31-2014 07:44 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 03:33 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Some countries will always be relatively poor. There's nothing anyone can do that will turn Honduras into an economic powerhouse like Singapore.

Not disagreeing with you, but why do you think this?

I don't entirely know. Poverty can be a mulch-faceted problem. But I think the one key factor that causes poverty is corruption. I don't think it's any coincidence that the two most prosperous countries in Latin America(Chile and Uruguay) are the two least corrupt. Also notice Botswana in Africa as a rising star. The only African country with relatively low corruption level, and it's also the one that is doing fairly well.



When corruption is eradicated from the system and culture, it makes it possible to have stability and for people to run legit businesses without having to bribe officials or pay protection money. Things become less dysfunctional.

When I said Honduras won't be Singapore, I'm not saying that can't improve. maybe they can become a moderate nation, like Turkey where it's not the richest place, but people are surviving just fine. It seems as though there are only a handful of places on earth that create all the innovation, best universities and have the most dynamic economies that attract people from all around the world.

Post: #218

speakeasy: I'm not trying to give you shit, because I suspect you're probably coming from the same place as I am on this, or somewhere similar, but that wasn't really a fully fleshed out answer you gave. I'm trying to get to the bottom of what you mean with this.

Are you making an essentialist argument? i.e. That there is something peculiar to Honduras that means that it could never get its act together? If so, what is that essential quality? Corruption would seem to be a second order effect of that, with poverty being a third order effect (at least according to your explanation).

How would you explain Chile, Uruguay, Botswana or Singapore getting their acts together? Wouldn't they have been written off as hopeless once? Why then couldn't Honduras follow in their footsteps?

What is it about the places that really have their acts together? Why them? Why do you believe that others can't emulate them and will hit a ceiling?

Post: #219

Maybe Illegals Can Help Stimulate The Us Economy?

http://news.yahoo.com/companies-influx-m...ector.html

For some companies, influx of migrant children into U.S. means business

NEW YORK (Reuters) - For a handful of U.S. companies that have exclusive or longstanding contracts with federal agencies dealing with illegal immigrants, the recent wave of children crossing the southern border with Mexico is a business opportunity.

Private prison companies Geo Group and competitor Corrections Corporation of America, for example, stand to gain if Congress approves any emergency funding for family detention facilities. The two companies have thousands of unoccupied beds in their prisons and jails that potentially could be modified to house immigrant families.

In the past six years, Geo Group was awarded nearly $880 million from Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), according to government contracting data compiled by SmartProcure.us. In July, ICE, the agency responsible for immigration detention, modified its contract with Geo Group to convert the company's adult detention center in Karnes County, Texas to house families.

Post: #220

feisbook control Wrote:How would you explain Chile, Uruguay, Botswana or Singapore getting their acts together? Wouldn't they have been written off as hopeless once? Why then couldn't Honduras follow in their footsteps?

What is it about the places that really have their acts together? Why them? Why do you believe that others can't emulate them and will hit a ceiling?

The collective values and culture.

Post: #221

^ In countries like Japan, Singapore, South Korea, an almost fanatical emphasis is placed on education.

You simply wont find that in countries like Mexico and Guatemala.

Post: #222

http://news.yahoo.com/colorado-begin-off...53775.html

Colorado to begin offering licenses for immigrants

DENVER (AP) — Thousands of immigrants have signed up to take advantage of a Colorado law that allows them to get drivers' licenses and identification cards beginning Friday, a heavy demand causing frustration for those who must wait.

About 9,500 people are signed up for appointments through the next 90 days to get the documents, with more people getting scheduled every day. Both people in the country illegally and those who have temporary legal status will qualify.

The law is expected to receive tremendous scrutiny both from opponents who see it as legitimizing illegal behavior, and supporters who say it will lead to safer roads because drivers will know the rules, and law enforcement will correctly identify people in traffic stops and accidents.

Colorado was among eight states that passed laws last year allowing driver's licenses for people in the country illegally. Two of those states, Illinois and Nevada, have already started issuing the documents. California plans to start in January.

Post: #223

http://news.yahoo.com/19-old-leaf-pile-d...23651.html

19-year-old in leaf-pile deaths avoids deportation

An immigration judge has dismissed the case against a 19-year-old Oregon woman who faced possible deportation to Mexico after she drove an SUV into a leaf pile, accidentally killing two young girls playing in it.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said Tuesday that Cinthya Garcia-Cisneros was released from an immigration detention center Aug. 14. She was in removal proceedings and had been held at the facility since February.

An ICE spokesman declined to say why the case was dropped, citing privacy issues.

Post: #224

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/21/arizon...t-schools/

Arizona Superintendent: Illegals Will Bankrupt Schools

A possible amnesty for illegal immigrants could be devastating to Arizona’s public schools, warned state superintendent John Huppenthal.

The law already requires state governments to educate all children, regardless of their legal status, but Huppenthal still said that a widespread amnesty for illegal immigrants, which it has been rumored President Obama may unilaterally implement, could encourage fresh arrivals and inundate the state’s education system with additional migrants.

“In the past there have been complex effects … depending on how it’s worded, how it’s structured, how it’s administered,” Huppenthal said of immigration reform efforts. “All of these things could inadvertently open up the flood and hit us, hit us hard.”

He produced figures making the claim that if 10,000 additional illegal immigrants were added to the state’s schools, the price tag would surpass $50 million for the state’s taxpayers.

Post: #225

The USA is destined to be a third world country due to its open boarders. In third world nations the rich get rich faster and there is greater income disparity. Not bad for the rich. The two party red/blue system is a scam, they are all part of the same team. Governor Rick Perry is correct, ISIS can walk right in through Mexico. When the next big terrorist attack originates that way, that will be the day they finally protect the border.