Post: #1

Here is something I still do that screws me over every single time. There are two basic paradigms through which a women view men: The Lover and The Provider. The lover is the guy she goes to for sex and fun, the provider is the guy she goes to for everything else including fixing her problems. I always start out as The Lover because that's my MO (Method of Operation). But then the girl will start telling me about her problems which in some cases I could easily fix and then I will try to be a "hero" and fix her problems. Well, guess what happens then? The moment I start down that road, I am no longer a lover and start to become a provider! And her view and treatment of me changes.

Don't make the mistake of trying to be a hero. Don't buy into the crap you see on TV. Leave the hero stuff to the providers. A girl doesn't like mixing her men, it confuses her. Do you like to see your sex kitten washing dishes? No, you want to be able to maintain that fun, sexy image of her and with women it's the same. They want to maintain a certain image of their lover and that image is a sexual and fun guy. If you start discussing her problems with her guess what? Her problems are not fun! You are only going to break her mood and her image of you. Just let her talk about whatever however much she wants and leave it at that. Don't get into any details.

She is coming to you to get away from her problems not for you to fix them.

The moment you start trying to fix a girl's problems, any problem, you will cross the line from Lover to Provider. Now, I am not saying never help her but make her ask you for help and she is only going to do it as a last resort. Her car breaks down. She is going to call her boyfriend first and if he's not around then she may call you.

I cannot tell you how many times I have fucked up a good thing by trying to be fucking hero. You have to decided what role you are going to play in a woman's life and stick to your fucking role so you don't confuse her. If you are going to be a lover then be a lover and be a lover 100% of the time. And a Lover is not the hero, the Provider is!

Post: #2

Post: #3

In the words of Enrique Iglesias "I can be your hero baby, I can kiss away the pain"

But in seriousness, the most true statement I've ever read pertaining to a woman's problems is this: they are her problems, let her fix them for herself. You are a man, therefore do not whine about your issues to her, she will always be telling you her problems and that will fill the void of her wondering about what is going on in your life. I have made the same mistake in the past, and it has only made me falter in her eyes.

It was only when my ex told me to stand up to her brother (who she has lived with all her life, and has always been a regular brother teasing her and such) that a lightbulb switched on. I was like "fuck that, thats just asking for trouble, you've been able to handle yourself around him for 20 years, he's you're goddamn brother, why the fuck would I ever do that" and walked out. No matter how small the issue, or how retarded in this case, let her deal with her own shit.

Post: #4

That reminds me of an article called "The Savior Schema" from Rollo.

An excerpt: "You can fix a woman's flat tire, help her out of a financial jam, fix her a nice lasagna, give her the perfect shoulder to cry on, babysit her kids and listen to her drone on for hours on the phone, and she'll still go fuck her outlaw biker boyfriend because her intimacy with him is genuine, unnegotiated, unobligated desire. She wants to have sex with him, she doesn't owe him sex."

Post: #5

(07-09-2014 10:26 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Do you like to see your sex kitten washing dishes? No, you want to be able to maintain that fun, sexy image of her ...

lolwut?

Post: #6

(07-09-2014 11:02 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 10:26 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Do you like to see your sex kitten washing dishes? No, you want to be able to maintain that fun, sexy image of her ...

lolwut?

I don't mind a lover doing womanly things at all...hell she dressed my bed the other day and did a bit of laundry. She's doing things for ME, then no problem, because she WANTS to do those things for me, or has offered.

Post: #7

Of course, some of that stuff is not a problem. It's when she starts to look like that

Post: #8

Or, help her, then fuck the shit out of her. That would make it pretty clear you're her Lover.

Post: #9

As someone who has helped out people (men and women) with time and lots of money, I would say I 100% agree. Just something I have had to learn over time. I realize the views I grew up with just don't apply well in this day and age.

A friend of mine, described that most people (men and women) today are just looking for free therapy when they meet new people. The ones they know don't want to hear their shit anymore so they look for new people to dump on. If someone you just met starts dumping their life on you, well let's just hope you didn't give this person your phone number and contact info.

The funny thing is the people who seek compassion/mercy rarely give it to others.

Post: #10

Very good point indeed. If you don't want her in a LTR and she is highly invested already, White Knighting is not going to create passion.

Valid and interesting point, as I have been guilty of being the savior of girls in the past. Stupid White Knighting ...

Post: #11

(07-09-2014 11:22 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  As someone who has helped out people (men and women) with time and lots of money, I would say I 100% agree. Just something I have had to learn over time. I realize the views I grew up with just don't apply well in this day and age.

A friend of mine, described that most people (men and women) today are just looking for free therapy when they meet new people. The ones they know don't want to hear their shit anymore so they look for new people to dump on. If someone you just met starts dumping their life on you, well let's just hope you didn't give this person your phone number and contact info.

The funny thing is the people who seek compassion/mercy rarely give it to others.

THIS^^^

I'd like to ask, does this beta providerish: A main girl got a new car, I suggested she throw an HID Headlight kit on it. Now she's asking if I could for sure help her, is it too beta/provider to help her out ?

I personally think it's cool to work on things like this.

Post: #12

(07-09-2014 11:16 AM)arribaperro Wrote:  Or, help her, then fuck the shit out of her. That would make it pretty clear you're her Lover.

No, she will feel you have bought the sex with your help.

Post: #13

(07-09-2014 11:39 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 11:22 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  As someone who has helped out people (men and women) with time and lots of money, I would say I 100% agree. Just something I have had to learn over time. I realize the views I grew up with just don't apply well in this day and age.

A friend of mine, described that most people (men and women) today are just looking for free therapy when they meet new people. The ones they know don't want to hear their shit anymore so they look for new people to dump on. If someone you just met starts dumping their life on you, well let's just hope you didn't give this person your phone number and contact info.

The funny thing is the people who seek compassion/mercy rarely give it to others.

THIS^^^

I'd like to ask, does this beta providerish: A main girl got a new car, I suggested she throw an HID Headlight kit on it. Now she's asking if I could for sure help her, is it too beta/provider to help her out ?

I personally think it's cool to work on things like this.

If she buys the headlight then putting it on for her is not a big deal. It's about how often and to what degree you are doing these things. There is a fine line you have to try not to cross. With experience you will sense it because her behavior and attitude towards you will start to change.

Post: #14

(07-09-2014 11:44 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 11:39 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 11:22 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  As someone who has helped out people (men and women) with time and lots of money, I would say I 100% agree. Just something I have had to learn over time. I realize the views I grew up with just don't apply well in this day and age.

A friend of mine, described that most people (men and women) today are just looking for free therapy when they meet new people. The ones they know don't want to hear their shit anymore so they look for new people to dump on. If someone you just met starts dumping their life on you, well let's just hope you didn't give this person your phone number and contact info.

The funny thing is the people who seek compassion/mercy rarely give it to others.

THIS^^^

I'd like to ask, does this beta providerish: A main girl got a new car, I suggested she throw an HID Headlight kit on it. Now she's asking if I could for sure help her, is it too beta/provider to help her out ?

I personally think it's cool to work on things like this.

If she buys the headlight then putting it on for her is not a big deal. It's about how often and to what degree you are doing these things. There is a fine line you have to try not to cross. With experience you will sense it because her behavior and attitude towards you will start to change.

I agree with Nomad. By putting it on it is a manly thing in a way, how many guys can do anything mechanical these days? But don't pay for it.

You are just doing mechanic's game to get laid

Post: #15

Really well written and makes sense. I think with the right frame you can do both tho..... If you are always the fun sexy guy she hangs out with an has a blast and gets a even bigger blast in the bedroom... Why can't you also be the fun sexy guy who helps her out in a pinch? Or just helps out at all like around the house or something?

I may have different views on this cause I have been in a LTR with a girl who is nothing like the girls I read about on here or see out in my day to day dealings. For certain couples tho I think you can be both... again I would say its the rarity not the norm.

Post: #16

(07-09-2014 12:00 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 11:44 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 11:39 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

(07-09-2014 11:22 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  As someone who has helped out people (men and women) with time and lots of money, I would say I 100% agree. Just something I have had to learn over time. I realize the views I grew up with just don't apply well in this day and age.

A friend of mine, described that most people (men and women) today are just looking for free therapy when they meet new people. The ones they know don't want to hear their shit anymore so they look for new people to dump on. If someone you just met starts dumping their life on you, well let's just hope you didn't give this person your phone number and contact info.

The funny thing is the people who seek compassion/mercy rarely give it to others.

THIS^^^

I'd like to ask, does this beta providerish: A main girl got a new car, I suggested she throw an HID Headlight kit on it. Now she's asking if I could for sure help her, is it too beta/provider to help her out ?

I personally think it's cool to work on things like this.

If she buys the headlight then putting it on for her is not a big deal. It's about how often and to what degree you are doing these things. There is a fine line you have to try not to cross. With experience you will sense it because her behavior and attitude towards you will start to change.

I agree with Nomad. By putting it on it is a manly thing in a way, how many guys can do anything mechanical these days? But don't pay for it.

You are just doing mechanic's game to get laid

Honestly I've seen this girl since this Jan. this honestly might be the first I'll be actually helping her out. (I used be at the beck and call of my an ex a few years back, my how lots has changed)

Post: #17

@cr33pin It's different if you are in a LTR. This is about a girl you are just dating. But even in a LTR you have to decide which one you want to be viewed as more: the lover or provider. Because whichever one you are more of that's how the girl will treat you. And if you become more than 80% provider she will then go out and find herself a lover

Post: #18

Nomad, I never get the sense from any of your posts that you're actually enjoying your life in any way. It's always some rule, "don't be a clown", "don't be a hero", or the need to manufacture "intention", or some other supposedly deep "problem".

My observation is that when a man is enjoying his life none of this matters all that much. But when a man is not enjoying his life there are suddenly 100 different ways to "fuck up" or "lose frame" or realize that it's all "just not worth it anyway".

Anyone who wants to see what a man enjoying his life sounds like, go and read one of Mech's older posts. He never sounds too worried about whether he needs to stop himself from fixing his bitch's car, or not.

Post: #19

How do we learn? Do we learn from our successes or our mistakes? What makes us stop and think. If you want to read about feel good stuff or how someone banged a girl last night from OKC there are many threads on here about that. I am not interested in making you feel good.

What would be the point in me writing about how good my life is? How would that help anyone?

This morning I woke up got on my bathroom scale and realized I had hit my target weight. I was happy as hell. If I came on here and wrote about that how would that help anyone lose weight? You want to know how I lost the weight? When a 20 yr old I was lying in bed with pinched my chest and said man boobs and laughed. That was the catalyst to losing the weight.

By all means if you want to read some feel good stuff go read the I just bang a girl threads.

Post: #20

So, perhaps people who end up in the friendzone are people who go all-out hero and no lover?

Post: #21

You end up in the friendzone two ways regardless of whether you are a hero or not.

1. The girls is just not sexually attracted to you.
2. You never sexualize the situation so the girl "thinks" you are not sexually attracted to her.

Post: #22

Nah, it's got nothing to do with "feel good" or otherwise or "hitting targets". It's about whether there is any sense of relish and interest in things for their own sake. It's like a smell, it's either there or not. It's never there in your posts and that's why they always need to be dressed up in some type of more or less elaborate rhetoric.

Mech is one example and Gio is another. You can read a post by Gio about a failed approach and there is a flow to it because he's into it. That's why when he delivers the lesson, if there is a lesson, it hits home because it's part of the flow of thinking and feeling alongside life.

Post: #23

Well, I will be the first to admit that I don't like living in the US and I don't like American women. I am much happier when I am outside the US in every way BUT then I am enjoying life so much I don't have the motivation to write much of anything here or anywhere else Also, you are talking about different writing styles and personalities. The way I write will appeal to some and not others. Same with personalities.

Post: #24

Life does not consist of constant enjoyment. You do and you reflect.

Happiness and joy come in small doses. Show me a guy whos constantly 'positive" and Ill show you one of my mother's psychiatric patients.

Post: #25

@Oz And oh, since you want some good news I am also meeting the Russian lingerie model tonight