Post: #1526

Vodka bar will re-open next weekend, now sponsored by Nemiroff.
Seems the closing was due to refurbishment works.

Check out the event page on FB.

Quote:18 and 19 December, we will open the doors of the legendary club in Kiev again!
At the old place with the new format. Brighter, grander and catchy.
Two days you must not miss!

https://www.facebook.com/events/504121213082908/

Post: #1527

(12-15-2015 06:01 PM)Rocha Wrote:  Vodka bar will re-open next weekend, now sponsored by Nemiroff.
Seems the closing was due to refurbishment works.

Check out the event page on FB.

Quote:18 and 19 December, we will open the doors of the legendary club in Kiev again!
At the old place with the new format. Brighter, grander and catchy.
Two days you must not miss!

https://www.facebook.com/events/504121213082908/

Legendary indeed. Report back on how it is!

Post: #1528

Ukraine would like to go there as a tourist
when the political and military conflict will be settled

Post: #1529

(12-16-2015 02:36 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 06:01 PM)Rocha Wrote:  Vodka bar will re-open next weekend, now sponsored by Nemiroff.
Seems the closing was due to refurbishment works.

Check out the event page on FB.

Quote:18 and 19 December, we will open the doors of the legendary club in Kiev again!
At the old place with the new format. Brighter, grander and catchy.
Two days you must not miss!

https://www.facebook.com/events/504121213082908/

Legendary indeed. Report back on how it is!

Legendary yes, but not necessarily the best hunting ground, lot's of thirsty foreigners there. I've been to Kiev 3 times in the last 4 years and as a slightly older dude I found Shooters to be a better deal, and if you keep your expectations in check (few model types there) Shooters is a goldmine. I actually got picked up within 10 minutes of arriving there and all approaches made were warmly received. Many older guy, (much) younger girl couples there

Post: #1530

Amazing Day Game opener:

Go to a cafe or any social spot where girls congregate with Russian language learning materials in hand and ask for help with grammer/translation/whatever.

Post: #1531

(12-17-2015 05:28 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  Amazing Day Game opener:

Go to a cafe or any social spot where girls congregate with Russian language learning materials in hand and ask for help with grammer/translation/whatever.

This. The most simple, innocent and indirect openers are the way to go during the day, will definitely try once I get my ass back to EE.

Post: #1532

Which days? With my limited experience I only found it good on ladies night. But I didn't go there much (or at all) in weekends.

Post: #1533

(12-17-2015 05:28 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  Amazing Day Game opener:

Go to a cafe or any social spot where girls congregate with Russian language learning materials in hand and ask for help with grammer/translation/whatever.

Yes, indirect is the best way here, you are already suspect as a foreigner. The "learning Russsian" approach is a classic one.

Kiev is no easy city. The key is of course approaching a lot.
Online game response rate in Kiev is about 0.5% and day game response rate is about 1%
(for a girl early to mid 20s)

Furthermore, finding a wing is difficult. Guys are either tall, good looking naturals who don't need to game a lot or they're asocial losers. Not a lot of regular folks in between. You're even finding MGTOW ideas gaining ground in some of the locals.

The good news is there are plenty of target rich places and a few months time is plenty to meet some girls as long as you keep your chin up.

Post: #1534

Its 5:00 in Kiev and its already dark. You've just done 5 approaches and tried your best to be friendly, social, and confident. You did quality indirect openers in a cafe, on public transit, in a store, or at a festival or event. Still, no numbers today.

You're sitting (or more likely standing) in the metro, so you reach into your pocket and pull out a notepad and write down 3 postive things from the experience. Don't analyze any negatives (time for that later), just the positives.

I've met a lot of wingmen here in Kiev and many have burned out. They say "I need to earn more money" or "Focus on my career" or "Maybe when the weather is nice again". Some are more blunt - "I used to enjoy approaching at first, but each day of no results makes it harder and harder."

I like to think about the skills I'm improving: I'm becoming more social, I'm optimizing my body language. I'm meeting new people. I'm having better conversations each time.

Staying positive is important. When you realize that this is a skill like any other you work harder. Its like running or sports. Each time you run a little faster, hit a little harder, or lift a heavier load.
Or learning a language. Each day you know a few more words and grammar concepts than the last. Eventually you become a fit athlete or a fluent speaker.

Post: #1535

(12-23-2015 10:15 AM)Blake2 Wrote:  Its 5:00 in Kiev and its already dark. You've just done 5 approaches and tried your best to be friendly, social, and confident. You did quality indirect openers in a cafe, on public transit, in a store, or at a festival or event. Still, no numbers today.

You're sitting (or more likely standing) in the metro, so you reach into your pocket and pull out a notepad and write down 3 postive things from the experience. Don't analyze any negatives (time for that later), just the positives.

I've met a lot of wingmen here in Kiev and many have burned out. They say "I need to earn more money" or "Focus on my career" or "Maybe when the weather is nice again". Some are more blunt - "I used to enjoy approaching at first, but each day of no results makes it harder and harder."

I like to think about the skills I'm improving: I'm becoming more social, I'm optimizing my body language. I'm meeting new people. I'm having better conversations each time.

Staying positive is important. When you realize that this is a skill like any other you work harder. Its like running or sports. Each time you run a little faster, hit a little harder, or lift a heavier load.
Or learning a language. Each day you know a few more words and grammar concepts than the last. Eventually you become a fit athlete or a fluent speaker.

Blake - are you doing any night game ?
I found the ratio's better in the Winter.

Also are you conversational in Russian or approaching in English ?

Keep up the good work !

Post: #1536

(12-23-2015 10:15 AM)Blake2 Wrote:  Its 5:00 in Kiev and its already dark. You've just done 5 approaches and tried your best to be friendly, social, and confident. You did quality indirect openers in a cafe, on public transit, in a store, or at a festival or event. Still, no numbers today.

You're sitting (or more likely standing) in the metro, so you reach into your pocket and pull out a notepad and write down 3 postive things from the experience. Don't analyze any negatives (time for that later), just the positives.

I've met a lot of wingmen here in Kiev and many have burned out. They say "I need to earn more money" or "Focus on my career" or "Maybe when the weather is nice again". Some are more blunt - "I used to enjoy approaching at first, but each day of no results makes it harder and harder."

I like to think about the skills I'm improving: I'm becoming more social, I'm optimizing my body language. I'm meeting new people. I'm having better conversations each time.

Staying positive is important. When you realize that this is a skill like any other you work harder. Its like running or sports. Each time you run a little faster, hit a little harder, or lift a heavier load.
Or learning a language. Each day you know a few more words and grammar concepts than the last. Eventually you become a fit athlete or a fluent speaker.

Blake2 keep going. The path you have chosen is not easy, and no one would blame you for giving up. But your posts keep the Ukraine flame going...Hope to wing with you in Kiev one day!!

Post: #1537

(12-23-2015 11:29 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  Blake - are you doing any night game ?
I found the ratio's better in the Winter.

Also are you conversational in Russian or approaching in English ?
Keep up the good work !

My Russian is just fine, so I approach in that language.
I'm not a big night game guy, everyone has their own style.

Thanks man!

(12-23-2015 03:04 PM)Chengiz88 Wrote:  Blake2 keep going. The path you have chosen is not easy, and no one would blame you for giving up. But your posts keep the Ukraine flame going...Hope to wing with you in Kiev one day!!

Thanks man! I'd be glad to wing with you any day you're here.




Has anyone else switched to online game? I have friends who go to clubs for entertainment..but they pull mainly from online game.

I just spent 20 minutes message online and got a few hits.
Daygame seems really inefficient by comparison.

Social circle might be good too, have to go to a lot more events to find some place.
I think putting more effort here is logical.

Post: #1538

@Blake2, Wish I had guts to do day-game as much as you. Consider it a blessing not to have approach anxiety. One nervous day-game approach per day is all I can usually handle before I resort to drinking and preparing for night game.
Anyways, I can remember a few years back being stationed in central Kiev...Two nights straight of going out had resulted in several numbers from clubs but no dates. So, as I was pre-gaming decided to change up my strategy a bit, spam messaged probably 50+ girls one Friday eve on singles.ru and asked all of them the same question..."do you want to go bowling tonight?"...a few answered yes and immediately gave me their numbers.

Why beat around the bush and waste days talking to girls online when you can hit them directly and get straight to the point. Alas, on the way to the bowling alley a couple girls from the club the night before messaged me and my buddy that they were up for chillin' so I never fully finished experimenting with this direct online game but it may be worth a try for you.

Post: #1539

Just had a week long romance with an 8.5.
Prettiest face of any girl I've ever been with, then last night she drops the bomb, "I can't do this anymore, everytime we kiss I feel guilty about my boyfriend" so I had to let her wander back.

Sucks when such a hot girl walks out of your life. I was down about it for a couple hours then saw 3 gorgeous girls on my way to the Metro and remembered I live in Kiev.

Post: #1540

Hey Nomad, would you mind telling me how much you spend monthly there between rent and going out? Is there much inflation going on? Does it matter that 1:22 USD/UAH? Thanks

Post: #1541

I think the hryvnia has bottomed out. The only time the conversion rate comes into play is when you leave the country, which I haven't had any interest in doing.
I spend maybe $200-$250 on food per month, I guess you can tack on another $50 -$100 for when I take girls out for sushi/coffee/whatever. My rent is subsidized through my job and kept low so this allows me to save more. I don't go out much because day game suits me and Kiev is a city designed for day gaming.

Post: #1542

Nomad, if you can maintain anonymity & you don't mind the question, what do you (generally) do for a living?

Post: #1543

(12-26-2015 12:49 AM)Troutslayer Wrote:  Nomad, if you can maintain anonymity & you don't mind the question, what do you (generally) do for a living?

Go a few pages back and you can find this information.

Something I've been thinking about:
I've now had four girls lie or hide the fact that they had boyfriends when they were seeing me, two of them I really liked. But of all the women I've put time into here in Kiev none of them were ever married.

Girls in relationships are far more willing to stray but don't want to lose the established relationship they're in. I don't know if it's because I have a super exotic factor going for me where they just want to experience a foreign fling then stroll back to their provider or if it's more common than that. However married women are far less willing to cheat, I've only met one here that made it clear she was DTF but she was a 6 and approaching the wall.

I'm more of a relationship guy, I'm really not looking to get ONS's. As Mystery points out: "If I'm going to dedicate a good amount of time, money, and energy into getting a girl into bed, I want to have sex with her as many times as I can, not just one night." So a real problem I have here is when I meet a girl that I actually like, I'm developing a sort of "reverse user" radar where I gauge the sincerity of here interest. Meaning: is she only interested in me for a fling or is she down for more of a long term thing.

I know your guys reaction would be, "What does it matter? Get the bang." But it does matter because girls here don't fuck on the first date. Whether their only interest is in a fling or a longer term relationship, they are all a time, money, and energy investment.

Post: #1544

I adjusted my online game slightly and now my response rate is much higher. I made my opener a little longer and looked more closely at the profile pics to find girls who I think match my vibe.

I’m wondering if the same can be done for daygame.
Before I was just heading to the most popular mall and approaching more or less at random.

I can’t help but think there are venues and ways of approaching that are more productive.
I think I may have come up on a way to do this: Venues where the girl is comfortable and has the upper hand in the topic. For example, yoga or art classes where you are a beginner and she is an expert. Even in the mall, the more female friendly sections like women’s clothing (ask for advice in buying a gift) or cosmetics seem more conducive to conversation. Not only are the ratios better in such settings, but girls seem more open. Of course, the downside is you really have to work to know the topic or skill.

Post: #1545

(12-26-2015 05:44 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(12-26-2015 12:49 AM)Troutslayer Wrote:  Nomad, if you can maintain anonymity & you don't mind the question, what do you (generally) do for a living?

Go a few pages back and you can find this information.

Something I've been thinking about:
I've now had four girls lie or hide the fact that they had boyfriends when they were seeing me, two of them I really liked. But of all the women I've put time into here in Kiev none of them were ever married.

Girls in relationships are far more willing to stray but don't want to lose the established relationship they're in. I don't know if it's because I have a super exotic factor going for me where they just want to experience a foreign fling then stroll back to their provider or if it's more common than that. However married women are far less willing to cheat, I've only met one here that made it clear she was DTF but she was a 6 and approaching the wall.

I'm more of a relationship guy, I'm really not looking to get ONS's. As Mystery points out: "If I'm going to dedicate a good amount of time, money, and energy into getting a girl into bed, I want to have sex with her as many times as I can, not just one night." So a real problem I have here is when I meet a girl that I actually like, I'm developing a sort of "reverse user" radar where I gauge the sincerity of here interest. Meaning: is she only interested in me for a fling or is she down for more of a long term thing.

I know your guys reaction would be, "What does it matter? Get the bang." But it does matter because girls here don't fuck on the first date. Whether their only interest is in a fling or a longer term relationship, they are all a time, money, and energy investment.

Are you running indirect daygame, as I recall?

Maybe a bit more London-style directness will filter out the girls in relationships - possibly evoking more knee-jerk "I have a boyfriend" reactions, rather than letting them stew on it.

Your call, of course.

Post: #1546

I increasingly find a low stress approach to be more sustainable for the long term.
I talk simply to practice my language skills. During events I attend, I meet the guys first before I talk to any girls. I treat the girls no differently than the guys and have a friendly ‘get to know you’ conversation.

I also send out some messages online, but I don’t focus on volume. Instead, I send a few greetings to people who are currently online and talk a bit. I usually ask language related questions or some general banter.

I’m just out and about meeting new folks, enjoying life, trying new hobbies, working my job, etc. The world is a big and varied place with a lot of opportunities.

Post: #1547

С Новым годом, вы извращает с "The Ukraine Thread".

   

Post: #1548

(12-26-2015 05:44 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(12-26-2015 12:49 AM)Troutslayer Wrote:  Nomad, if you can maintain anonymity & you don't mind the question, what do you (generally) do for a living?

Go a few pages back and you can find this information.

Something I've been thinking about:
I've now had four girls lie or hide the fact that they had boyfriends when they were seeing me, two of them I really liked. But of all the women I've put time into here in Kiev none of them were ever married.

Girls in relationships are far more willing to stray but don't want to lose the established relationship they're in. I don't know if it's because I have a super exotic factor going for me where they just want to experience a foreign fling then stroll back to their provider or if it's more common than that. However married women are far less willing to cheat, I've only met one here that made it clear she was DTF but she was a 6 and approaching the wall.

Welcome to the party pal!

(12-26-2015 12:49 AM)Troutslayer Wrote:  I'm more of a relationship guy, I'm really not looking to get ONS's. As Mystery points out: "If I'm going to dedicate a good amount of time, money, and energy into getting a girl into bed, I want to have sex with her as many times as I can, not just one night." So a real problem I have here is when I meet a girl that I actually like, I'm developing a sort of "reverse user" radar where I gauge the sincerity of here interest. Meaning: is she only interested in me for a fling or is she down for more of a long term thing.

I know your guys reaction would be, "What does it matter? Get the bang." But it does matter because girls here don't fuck on the first date. Whether their only interest is in a fling or a longer term relationship, they are all a time, money, and energy investment.

Me too - I think that's pretty much the way it works in the FSU for the most part as one-night stands are typically tougher to do unless your night game is pretty tight and you are willing to go out til past 4-5am regularly on the weekends. A lot of times you are juggling 2-3 plates and waiting for relationship #1 to fizzle out while lining up the next one anyway. RE the time/money thing most dates tend to be cheap so it's more weighted towards time in the "investment" period but many if not most of these women are worth it whereas in the West they seldom are.

Post: #1549

I've noticed Western and Central Ukrainians(Ukrainian Speaking) are more talkative than their Eastern or Northern neighbors.
At first I thought this was a negative since I'm not so outgoing myself, but now I see some advantages. If you're talking you can't be busy analyzing. These girls are more forgiving for mistakes you make when talking and will forget things more quickly. Whenever I find myself pausing I repeat in my mind "JUST TALK". Its especially important upon first meeting when you want to blast them with as much banter and humour as you can muster. Keep the statments open ended, ask for her opinion on the silliest of things, whatever...just keep taking.
In my time in Kiev I haven't been corrected for saying stupid things nearly as often as I've been prodded to keep talking.

When things getting quiet, even the basics can be useful in maintaining the conversation.
Here's a nice little acromnym I came upon- FORM


Family
"How's your mom these days?" or "How are your parents doing?"
"How many brothers and sisters do you have?" or "Did you all get along?"
"What was your best/worst family vacation?"
Occupation
"What do you do?" or "How are you enjoying your new job?"
"What's the toughest thing you've got going on at work?" or "What was the most interesting thing you did there this week?"
"What are the people you work with like?"
Recreation
"What do you do for fun?" or "What is there to do around here for fun?"
"How long have you been doing that?"
"Do you have a regular group of people you do that with?"
Motivation
"What do you want to do after school?" or "Do you think you'll be at that job for long? What's your dream job?"
"What do you want to be doing, down the road?"


I've also found that paraphrasing and repeating back what people say seems to work well too. It always gives you a few extra seconds to come up with the next thing to say and makes you seem like a good listener.

Kiev is a huge city with many foreigners so your exotic factor isn't a huge boon unless you're from Paraguay, Tibet, or Equatorial Guinea. Keeping those conversation skills sharp is essential.

Post: #1550

Christion orthodix christmas is coming up. Has anyone been in Kiev througout local Christmas before? Is it getting less people on the night scene or more. Any suggestions?