Post: #1

Mystery coined the term in this particular usage.

Basically, it equates to a very easy bang without actually having to use any sort of real game. This is easier now because of the constant POF/Tinder/Blendr (app of your choice) on smartphones. I personally don't consider it to be a "fools mate" bang if you met her at a bar or club - you had to provide some sort of in-person game then.

It's an initial attraction based on a mutual liking of each other's profile (mainly pics) followed by a very fast escalation to sexual discussion, then an arranged meeting usually either that night or within a few days at the latest, although more typically it's the same night.

Easier than actually going out and gaming, but it makes you wonder if she's getting "fools mated' by lots of other guys.

One thing I have noticed about lots of these, is that they're often only looking for a ONS themselves. It can actually be harder to get repeat bangs with them.

Any thoughts on this?

Post: #2

(06-24-2014 01:08 AM)la_mode Wrote:  Any thoughts on this?

Pretty much everyone with sense rejected Mystery's idea early on. It's the sort of thing that he was mocked for.

As for chicks looking for a One Night Stand?

Welcome to the game.

WIA

Post: #3

Mystery was big on establishing relationships and got butthurt on the behalf of women who had something 'taken from them' after an ONS. Ironic because he was horrible at relationships if you finished The Game.

His game wasn't engineered for speedy bangs. It's the epitome of I hope she likes me game. Screening was nonexistent to them. imo the early community genuinely believed they could make an unavailable woman available by spitting attraction material (dhv routines, nlp, etc).

Knowing how to make speedy bangs happen is real game. It takes strong leading skills

Post: #4

I don't agree with mysteries nerd theroy but I will say this:

The better your game the more streamlined and minimal it gets.

It starts to come down to micro movements, subtle signals. It can be hard for the regular guy to even pick up on what you did because you didn't do that much. Rather you didn't do a lot of things.

You gain the ability to scan for girls who are more sexually open and require less gaming. You know how to escalate faster and convey value quicker. You can cut out the shit and make progress faster then the regular guy thinks is possible.

Of course sometimes girls are just DTF but it still takes game to channel that and make it happen. I've seen random guys fuck up 'sure things' countless times.

Post: #5

(06-24-2014 01:11 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 01:08 AM)la_mode Wrote:  Any thoughts on this?

Pretty much everyone with sense rejected Mystery's idea early on. It's the sort of thing that he was mocked for.

As for chicks looking for a One Night Stand?

Welcome to the game.

WIA

WIA I am curious. Do you think there is no such thing as "fool's mate" in general?

Post: #6

Any Roissy article on this topic?

Post: #7

Sometimes you meet a woman who is DTF and you can escalate quickly. It usually takes some skill to first recognize such a girl and then also to escalate within a given time-period. I've had instances in the past where I did not see the signs, played the aloof Game too long and failed to escalate within an hour only to see her wandering off later and making out with another dude.

Easy bangs are anything but easy if you don't know at least some principles of Game. There is no Fool's Gold in the sexual market place.

Post: #8

I would say that there is still such thing as a "Fool's Mate" in Game.

A few months ago I met a woman around the same age (mid 20s) as me through work, and had no interest in gaming her. It's not that she wasn't attractive (I would say that she was a solid 7), it's just that I was very cautious about mixing business and pleasure.

I soon realised that she was pursuing me. She asked me out on a date and I ended up banging her, despite me putting absolutely no effort into gaming her.

However, I would definitely say that most of the gaming strategies designed and implemented by Mystery and others (Style, Lovedrop etc) are completely outdated and irrelevant now. These guys were gaming back in the late 90s and early 00's, and the sexual marketplace is completely different now compared to back then.

Post: #9

Mystery always had this thing about spending something like 5-6 hours with a woman before banging her.

My bangs often happen within in an hour or less of meeting the girl. Mystery was very intellectually articulate about game but I often wonder if he had the killer instinct to do stuff like banging girls in the bathroom of a club or threesomes etc.

Post: #10

I think "Fool's Mate" is a silly concept, but I don't think you can argue that the chicks on Tinder and whatnot take airtight game... I've only met up with two women from the intertubes, but they were both among my easiest bangs ever. One I took for a quick dinner and then to my place, and the other I just took straight to a hotel. You could argue that game allowed me to take the lead, escalate, and not let things get weird, but you have to do all those things and a lot more on girls you open in the wild. I don't fault dudes for doing online game, but I'm not a huge fan myself.

Post: #11

Easy lays are mostly about being in the right place at the right time. Usually the girl a) just wants to have fun, or b) something happened to piss her off and she wants to fuck. In case (a) well you have to add to the fun (drugs, booze, good emotions). In case (b) she might have seen an exbf make out with his new girl, maybe a guy she wants just rejected him, etc and all you have to do is be the tool (pun intended) she bounces on to get her own mini-revenge.

Therefore, the two most important ingredients to easy lays are 1) go out a lot, and 2) be bold: always holla & try for the pull using male-female dynamics.

Post: #12

So Atlantic, you're saying that you learn to see whether a girl will need one hour of interaction or 5-7 before she's ready to bang?

And is Soup saying he mostly bangs easy girls? Or that his game is tight enough that girls that regularly take 5-7 hours can be had in just one? Or that any girl taking more than an hour is just a myth?

Post: #13

(06-24-2014 01:55 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  WIA I am curious. Do you think there is no such thing as "fool's mate" in general?

It's complicated...

Here's the formal definition.

__________________________________________________
"In pickup, it is possible to obtain a fool’s mate via drunk targets who are alone, horny, and desperate. However the community does not consider this real game. A lay is a lay, but sleeping with a girl because of fool’s mate will not improve a PUA’s skill level. Also, the girl will likely be mad, or embarrassed at her own bad decision making. This guarantees that the sexual relationship does not last for more than one night. Masters are in this for the long run, or aim to develop multiple long term sexual and intimate relationships."
_______________________________________________

The Beginnings

Regular high school dude, raging hormones
- some of those guys approach and get rejected, over and over again, and they fear rejection, thus develop approach anxiety

- another set of guys merely HEARS ABOUT REJECTION, and they develop approach anxiety.

Then they hear about game.
They might learn a trick or two, but most don't have a full handle on the process.

Anyway, they get over approach anxiety, get over rejection, and they start to get some success.

These guys that are now not afraid of rejection, aren't necessarily running game. They think they are, but they're not.

Sets are opening, they're hooking, and everything starts to move in the right direction.

The Underlying Reality?

What the man is truly discovering, imo, is the 3 types

1) there's a type of girl that will never fuck you
2) there's a type of girl that will always fuck you

And then

3) there's the type that is on the fence.

Game mostly applies to chicks on the fence.

As you develop your game, The #'s of chicks who'd never fuck you decrease, the ones who will always fuck you decrease, and the ones on the fence are much easier to handle.

RVF Influence


I had to rethink this theory when I encountered the ideas of
- sexual marketplace value - which is as nerdy as my partitioned Bell curve distribution
- Active game
- PASSIVE GAME.

Tuth? Gio? Samseau? Roosh? I'm not sure who to credit, but it makes my Bell Curve/SMV thing explainable

If you've got good passive game, which is a combination of
- genetics,
- health and fitness,
- style
- favorable logistics

That helps increase the # of chicks that would want to fuck you.

Your active game, your mind for a human psychology, experience with hot chicks, your words, your actions - this is what "internet" game primarily focuses.

What do I say and do? That's what we actually mean when we say game. I like to harp on , "what do you think about", but essentially how you think about the game is what informs the "say and do"/active part of the game.

Fool's Mate/Full Circle

So the young guy who's just learning game, the first thing that happens
- he manages his approach anxiety

When you start out, there's really way too much going on with game to do more than just that handle that Fear/Flight response that comes from approaching strange girls.

So if all he has is he balls to approach, then he's not really using game.

So if he get's a lay, it's fool's mate. He just kinda showed up and pussy got thrown at him.

But how did he get the lay?

2 things
- finally able to put himself in the situation. He can finally discover that niche of girls that wants to fuck him, regardless of where his game is.

- they want to fuck him because of his passive game, the things that he does outside of "Who Lies More". SMV might be useful here, but I just don't like the idea.

Level 1 - Sex with strangers is possible

Realizing that there are girls that naturally want to take his semen is a huge revelation for most guys. The only thing holding them back was fear of the approach, and fear of the rejection.

This guy doesn't need "game" anymore to get laid. He can get laid, as long as he's diligent. This the case for many Average Dudes out there.

He's able to cash in on his SMV/Passive game.

Level 2 - There are some chicks out there looking for love TONIGHT

And what comes next is that he's able to ferret out the signs that a chick might be interested.

I.E. nosing out the chicks that are down to fuck.

This is level 2. He starts to see sex possibilities everywhere. Throw in the fact that he can handle AA, and he starts to really do #'s

This is the beginning of game, imo.

Level 3 - Handling those Chicks on the Fence

Level 3 is when he realizes that there are girls that might fuck him, because he senses it, but also senses some resistance.

Now we're talking about Game. Now he has to really work on a chick's mind, and present her with opportunities. Now he entices, lures, attracts...

Level 4 - The Battle

Level 4 is when he sees a chick, and gets no signs from her that she'd fuck him...but he's able to talk to her and get her to realize what she's missing.

He attracts, he arouses, and he gets her alone for some one-on-one religious counseling.

If you could ask her what she thought of him upon sight, she wouldn't have gushed about how cool and hot he was. He was essentially invisible. But he became visible, he became attractive. He stirred her loins. And he removed all barriers to the word no.

^This is what Mystery, imo, was after.

There's a really "famous" in-field clip of him defanging an antagonistic bitch, and you watch this evil viper transform into a cuddly kitten. She hates him, and then she likes him because of what he says and does.

That's the game for him.

So I understand why he'd call anything beneath the "battle of wills" fool's mate.

But I don't believe in the concept.

Even if you go to the meat market, and run into the Town Slut, she can still get dick from any other guy there. You're doing something active if she decides to hop on your cock that night. It's more than all of her other choices. And even the Town Bike needs a little encouragement and managing.

WIA

Post: #14

(06-24-2014 04:59 AM)soup Wrote:  Mystery always had this thing about spending something like 5-6 hours with a woman before banging her.

My bangs often happen within in an hour or less of meeting the girl. Mystery was very intellectually articulate about game but I often wonder if he had the killer instinct to do stuff like banging girls in the bathroom of a club or threesomes etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Cg-6avqhY#t=40s

That video was posted in 2012. You can clearly see that he didn't even believe he could bang club women in a restroom. He was fixated on running 'attraction game'

(06-24-2014 10:58 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Level 4 - The Battle

Level 4 is when he sees a chick, and gets no signs from her that she'd fuck him...but he's able to talk to her and get her to realize what she's missing.

He attracts, he arouses, and he gets her alone for some one-on-one religious counseling.

If you could ask her what she thought of him upon sight, she wouldn't have gushed about how cool and hot he was. He was essentially invisible. But he became visible, he became attractive. He stirred her loins. And he removed all barriers to the word no.

^This is what Mystery, imo, was after.

There's a really "famous" in-field clip of him defanging an antagonistic bitch, and you watch this evil viper transform into a cuddly kitten. She hates him, and then she likes him because of what he says and does.

That's the game for him.

So I understand why he'd call anything beneath the "battle of wills" fool's mate.

But I don't believe in the concept.

Even if you go to the meat market, and run into the Town Slut, she can still get dick from any other guy there. You're doing something active if she decides to hop on your cock that night. It's more than all of her other choices. And even the Town Bike needs a little encouragement and managing.

WIA

I believe this is the video WIA is talking about. Very old, probably first infield I watched in my life, and still one of the best ones out there.

Post: #15

(06-24-2014 01:34 AM)Atlantic Wrote:  You gain the ability to scan for girls who are more sexually open and require less gaming.

My friend (a lurker here and an elite player) walked into a bar, and the first thing he said was "That girl is good to go". We can't even see her at first, but then, in the back of the bar we see a woman sitting alone. Our other friend ends up tagging her that night. It's like he's seeing the matrix.

Post: #16

"Fool's Mate" is almost mandatory now in the era of the Iphone.

Post: #17

What's paradoxical about this, some of 'easy lays' would actually be difficult in another setting. It's really a combination of certain things, mainly her looking for a quick ONS could be part of it. Also, if it's from Tinder/Blendr/POF you typically won't have to deal with her friends.

Post: #18

(06-24-2014 02:53 PM)la_mode Wrote:  What's paradoxical about this, some of 'easy lays' would actually be difficult in another setting. It's really a combination of certain things, mainly her looking for a quick ONS could be part of it. Also, if it's from Tinder/Blendr/POF you typically won't have to deal with her friends.

I'm thinking a fairly attractive chick would find a ONS much easier on Tinder than she would in real life. Mainly because the "thirst" online is unreal. Where in real life, there's just only so many guys at a venue, most of which wouldn't pass her "smell" test.

WIA

Post: #19

(06-24-2014 01:55 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 01:11 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 01:08 AM)la_mode Wrote:  Any thoughts on this?

WIA I am curious. Do you think there is no such thing as "fool's mate" in general?

Because the "Fool" in this situation is You, not the Chick. The chick already knows she's going to fuck you within the first 5 seconds of you walking up to her and talking to her, all you gotta do is be that guy she wants to fuck, and lead her to the bedroom. You're the "Fool" in fool's mate when you . . ."Luck up on some pussy" and get laid without doing much work. . .you're the fool becasue you don't know how you did that.

Once you learn game you figure out what you did, and do that more, and more importantly become MORE of what women want. So that happens easier and easierm and more frequently . . . thus you stop being the "fool" and start being the MAN.
(which is pretty much what WIA is getting at in his more in depth post)

Post: #20

These apps for women are like TV on-demand. A replenishing buffer stock of suitors everytime she looks at her phone.

They can initiate conversation with a guy there, make the move, and provided she's at least a 6, they know most of the time the dude will comply.

Could be argued "fool's mate" is women doing the sarging.

*off topic, but somewhat relevant. The amount of available men because of these apps has made women overall less clingy to men they like, therefore more open to a weekly fool's mate.

Post: #21

Wow, that was a fantastic explanation by WIA.

Post: #22

(06-24-2014 10:58 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-24-2014 01:55 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  WIA I am curious. Do you think there is no such thing as "fool's mate" in general?

It's complicated...

Here's the formal definition.

__________________________________________________
"In pickup, it is possible to obtain a fool’s mate via drunk targets who are alone, horny, and desperate. However the community does not consider this real game. A lay is a lay, but sleeping with a girl because of fool’s mate will not improve a PUA’s skill level. Also, the girl will likely be mad, or embarrassed at her own bad decision making. This guarantees that the sexual relationship does not last for more than one night. Masters are in this for the long run, or aim to develop multiple long term sexual and intimate relationships."
_______________________________________________

The Beginnings

Regular high school dude, raging hormones
- some of those guys approach and get rejected, over and over again, and they fear rejection, thus develop approach anxiety

- another set of guys merely HEARS ABOUT REJECTION, and they develop approach anxiety.

Then they hear about game.
They might learn a trick or two, but most don't have a full handle on the process.

Anyway, they get over approach anxiety, get over rejection, and they start to get some success.

These guys that are now not afraid of rejection, aren't necessarily running game. They think they are, but they're not.

Sets are opening, they're hooking, and everything starts to move in the right direction.

The Underlying Reality?

What the man is truly discovering, imo, is the 3 types

1) there's a type of girl that will never fuck you
2) there's a type of girl that will always fuck you

And then

3) there's the type that is on the fence.

Game mostly applies to chicks on the fence.

As you develop your game, The #'s of chicks who'd never fuck you decrease, the ones who will always fuck you decrease, and the ones on the fence are much easier to handle.

RVF Influence


I had to rethink this theory when I encountered the ideas of
- sexual marketplace value - which is as nerdy as my partitioned Bell curve distribution
- Active game
- PASSIVE GAME.

Tuth? Gio? Samseau? Roosh? I'm not sure who to credit, but it makes my Bell Curve/SMV thing explainable

If you've got good passive game, which is a combination of
- genetics,
- health and fitness,
- style
- favorable logistics

That helps increase the # of chicks that would want to fuck you.

Your active game, your mind for a human psychology, experience with hot chicks, your words, your actions - this is what "internet" game primarily focuses.

What do I say and do? That's what we actually mean when we say game. I like to harp on , "what do you think about", but essentially how you think about the game is what informs the "say and do"/active part of the game.

Fool's Mate/Full Circle

So the young guy who's just learning game, the first thing that happens
- he manages his approach anxiety

When you start out, there's really way too much going on with game to do more than just that handle that Fear/Flight response that comes from approaching strange girls.

So if all he has is he balls to approach, then he's not really using game.

So if he get's a lay, it's fool's mate. He just kinda showed up and pussy got thrown at him.

But how did he get the lay?

2 things
- finally able to put himself in the situation. He can finally discover that niche of girls that wants to fuck him, regardless of where his game is.

- they want to fuck him because of his passive game, the things that he does outside of "Who Lies More". SMV might be useful here, but I just don't like the idea.

Level 1 - Sex with strangers is possible

Realizing that there are girls that naturally want to take his semen is a huge revelation for most guys. The only thing holding them back was fear of the approach, and fear of the rejection.

This guy doesn't need "game" anymore to get laid. He can get laid, as long as he's diligent. This the case for many Average Dudes out there.

He's able to cash in on his SMV/Passive game.

Level 2 - There are some chicks out there looking for love TONIGHT

And what comes next is that he's able to ferret out the signs that a chick might be interested.

I.E. nosing out the chicks that are down to fuck.

This is level 2. He starts to see sex possibilities everywhere. Throw in the fact that he can handle AA, and he starts to really do #'s

This is the beginning of game, imo.

Level 3 - Handling those Chicks on the Fence

Level 3 is when he realizes that there are girls that might fuck him, because he senses it, but also senses some resistance.

Now we're talking about Game. Now he has to really work on a chick's mind, and present her with opportunities. Now he entices, lures, attracts...

Level 4 - The Battle

Level 4 is when he sees a chick, and gets no signs from her that she'd fuck him...but he's able to talk to her and get her to realize what she's missing.

He attracts, he arouses, and he gets her alone for some one-on-one religious counseling.

If you could ask her what she thought of him upon sight, she wouldn't have gushed about how cool and hot he was. He was essentially invisible. But he became visible, he became attractive. He stirred her loins. And he removed all barriers to the word no.

^This is what Mystery, imo, was after.

There's a really "famous" in-field clip of him defanging an antagonistic bitch, and you watch this evil viper transform into a cuddly kitten. She hates him, and then she likes him because of what he says and does.

That's the game for him.

So I understand why he'd call anything beneath the "battle of wills" fool's mate.

But I don't believe in the concept.

Even if you go to the meat market, and run into the Town Slut, she can still get dick from any other guy there. You're doing something active if she decides to hop on your cock that night. It's more than all of her other choices. And even the Town Bike needs a little encouragement and managing.

WIA

Post: #23

Some girls take more game than others. No doubt. But I think one of the better refutations of fool's mate was done by Roosh:

http://www.rooshv.com/you-still-need-gam...ang-whores

Quote:While whores fuck 10 times more guys than non-whores, their whore calling card gets them approached by 100 times more guys. Since she has near unlimited options on who to fuck, you must have game to get selected. How often do you hear of your shy, nice guy friends fucking club whores whose phones are constantly blowing up due to other dudes? It never happens. If you want to fuck sluts you need to bring the game.