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(06-22-2014 12:32 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  4) always, always I start touching them on the hip, leg or arm at some point. Just a 1-3 second touch. Then wait a while, do another one for a second or two longer. I've had VERY little reciprocity from girls touching me back. Thus I haven't progressed forward with more touching because I'm not sure if they're feeling it.

I think some girls are ok with a guy touching them even if they aren't into the guy. They'll just tolerate it. Had a 30-min convo with a girl one time with my arm around her waist and at the end of it she excused herself and refused my request to kiss me on the cheek.

IMHO, I don't think you can wait for them to reciprocate kino before you escalate to the kiss. Many girls are too shy, not drunk enough, playing coy, don't want to seem like a slut in front of their friends, etc. and expect the guy to do ALL of the leading. The fact that she is ALLOWING you to escalate kino at all, should be your signal to move forward and find a moment for the kiss. Of course, you might get the push-away, but then you know what do from there: ignore, plow and wait for her to warm to you, or eject.

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You're leaving out a whole lot.

Just based on this scant information,
- you and your wing don't know tight two-man game

- you're being evasive about your job and ethnicity, even though there's no indication that she's trying to screen you. She could be seeking rapport. And like everyone else on this board, you're not very good at remembering or telling us about how these girls are reaction - verbally and non-verbally

- you're pushing kino and they aren't biting.

- you're bad at picking topics of conversation, and worse at steering them to where they need to be.

1) The Wing - let him run the conversation between the 4 of you. Your job is to chime in and big HIM up. His job is to run things and big YOU up. If you run together on a regular basis, tag team wing man pick up could do very well for you. You can brag on each other, and then pick up for each other's weaknesses, in addition to handling obstacles.

2) That Mr. Mysterious bs - the point of not answering her questions directly isn't to be mysterious, or to frustrate her, but to get her to play.

"Guess" (job or race, whatever) is a perfectly fine answer, but it has to be set up right.

Her - "So what are you/what do you do"
You - "That's a perfectly good question"

*at this point you have plenty of options, here's just 1*

You - "Now you look like a smart person, are you smart?"
her - "yes"
You - "I'm betting that you're pretty observant, would I be right"
her - "yes"
you - "now look into my eyes..., touch my hands..., feel the fabric of my shirt,.... look at my shoes,... listen to my voice....and i'll give you 3 guesses"

^^
a) yes ladder (textbook)
b) compliance (textbook)
c) she initiates kino/touch barrier broken (textbook)

All in 3 lines, less than 10 seconds of chatting.
________________________________________________

I could come up with DOZENS of ways to answer her question and get her to play with you a bit.

Doesn't mean she's gonna drop to her knees in the middle of Panera Bread.
But she wants to play (even if she doesn't know it). You have to give her something to play with.

Being Mr. Dos Equis x James Bond won't get you anywhere.

Even if you want to run Roissy style Dark Triad game, where you never give her answers, even he manages to dangle something in front of her and get her to jump at it.

__

So to sum up.

You've got a good opening game.
But you don't know what to do with her once she's in your presence.

You have to get her to be a part of her own seduction, by giving her things to comment on, to challenge, to do on her own - AT YOUR DIRECTION.

Same thing that Kindergartner school teachers do with 5 year olds, and your boss does to you and your co-workers.

WIA

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WIA,

Your response to "what do you do" is amazing. I wish I had seen this earlier then I would have known what to say when I was asked that in the bar.

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While I like to use the "You look like you're having the most fun here" line on occasion, I'm really just using it to get out of the door. I then will bounce off to something else, ask her what she's up to, if she's with friends, what she's drinking, whatever I feel like after that. The key to having good, long, natural conversation is exactly that. Yes, you can have canned openers and routines and all that stuff but ultimately, if you can just go up and have a conversation with her, while being fun and having some idea of where you want to steer the conversation, you can talk to a girl for a pretty long time. That being said, if she's not biting, it doesn't matter what your canned lines are or your natural conversation, women will just shut you down if they aren't interested. If you sense they're not interested, bounce off to another girl and move on with your night.

A good piece of reference for this is this Real Social Dynamics Video: